Monday, July 18, 2011

Amendment to Church Constitution

At the recent AGM of Calvary Church (CC), Deacon David Peter presented a motion to amend the Church Constitution to include “a new dispute resolution” clause. 

The proposed clause to be included in the Constitution will be known as Rule XVI and basically sets out the procedures on resolving disputes in the Church. The new rule will “make it mandatory for any unhappy member to abide by the stated procedures, instead of subjecting the Church to a very public court process.” 

Although David Peter proudly proclaimed at the AGM that the CC Constitution is the “most advanced Constitution among all the AOG churches in Malaysia”, nevertheless, he admits in the preamble in the motion that the Constitution currently does not have a satisfactory dispute resolution provision. So much for his proclamation of the church having the most advanced Constitution!

Or perhaps what he meant was that the CC Constitution is the most advanced in terms of concentrating total autocratic power in the Senior Pastor whilst paying lip-service to being a congregational church? 

Or maybe, the most advanced in making it impossible for members to initiate any change to improve transparency and accountability in the church and by the church leadership? 

It is certainly the most advanced in ensuring that the Senior Pastor cannot be removed by any means and the most advanced in denying the fundamentals rights of members to voice their opinions or to question the leadership.            

Click on the attachments at the end of the Article to read David’s letter and the motion.

However, by presenting the amendment to the Constitution, indirectly Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) and the Board of Deacons are actually acknowledging that the TTG (Truth, Transparency and Governance) Group’s process in their attempt to resolve the ongoing church crisis was correct and scriptural.  

The entire process of negotiation, mediation and arbitration were proposed and attempted by the TTG on many occasions but all efforts failed due to the recalcitrance and defiance of PG. 

The proposed dispute resolution process and the TTG’s various attempts to resolve the conflict are set out below:-

Proposed CC Conflict Resolution Process
TTG’s Efforts to Resolve Conflict
(6 Separate Attempts at different times identified as 1 to 6 below. These attempts are numbered in chronological order of time)


Negotiation:  Parties in conflict to write to each other and meet up to try to resolve the issue in conflict.









1. Members of the TTG individually and/or collectively wrote numerous letters and petitions to the Board of Deacons to review a number of issues in contention including the extended ministries and the severely-flawed constitution.

They received either no replies or downright meaningless response to their letters and petitions. A number of the TTG members did individually and corporately meet up with the Deacons and Pastors at various times but nothing was accomplished. All the TTG’s negotiation efforts were simply disregarded and ignored by PG and the Board.

5.  After failure of Steps 3 and 4 by NECF, PG’s lawyer, KK Wong, also tried for out-of-court settlement.  PG’s lawyer requested the Plaintiffs (7 TTG members) to submit a proposal for an out of court settlement to PG and the deacons.  The Plaintiffs complied.  

After sitting on the Plaintiffs’s proposal for almost two months, they rejected the proposal without any willingness to negotiate at all. PG’s slap in the face for KK Wong’s effort probably was the reason why the lawyer withdrew from representing PG and the deacons..

Mediation:  If parties fail to resolve the issue through negotiation, then either party can initiate mediation.  Mediator will be appointed by either the General Superintendent or Assistant General Superintendent of the AOG Malaysia.

2.  TTG members agreed to the mediation attempt by a prominent ex-Calvarite and the AOG General Superintendent as co-chairmen.

Two days before the pre-agreed scheduled meeting, PG chickened out and informed the co-chairmen that the date was “not convenient”.  The prominent ex-Calvarite gave up in disappointment especially since he had purposely rushed back from an overseas event for the meeting. (This ex-Calvarite who was an ordinary member was then subsequently demoted to an associate member by PG. He has now left CC and moved to another church)
To Read CT post click “PG Chickens Out” 

3.  NECF picked up from step 2 and tried to restart the mediation process (after waiting many months in vain for AOG to step in).  The Plaintiffs agreed and supported NECF’s effort.

PG did not respond to NECF’s attempts and the mediation failed. 
6.  Plaintiffs made one last attempt at out-of-court settlement and initiated a “court-assisted mediation” with a proposal to drop the entire Originating Summons with only one request which is that the Constitution be reviewed by an independent committee made up of the two sets of lawyers representing the Plaintiffs and PG

PG and the Board of deacons, who had agreed to this court-assisted mediation initiative by the Plaintiffs, however, rejected this one simple request and preferred the matter to be tried in court.
To Read CT post click “PG Chickens Out Again”


Arbitration:  If mediation fails then either party can initiate arbitration.  Each party to appoint an arbitrator.  The two appointed arbitrators will then appoint a third arbitrator.  If the two arbitrators cannot agree on the third arbitrator, then the GS or AGS of AOG shall appoint the third arbitrator.  Decision of arbitrators final and binding.
4.  After NECF’s mediation attempts (step 3) failed, Plaintiffs agreed that NECF initiate Christian arbitration.  Plaintiffs offered to withdraw the Originating Summons if the issues can be placed before an arbitration panel of Christian senior lawyers and/or ex-judges nominated by NECF acceptable to both parties.

PG informed NECF that he was not agreeable to mediation or Christian arbitration.  NECF gave up.


After more than 2 years, the Constitution Review Committee has only managed to come out with this one proposed change in the Constitution. And this proposed change is not even addressing the core issues of the total lack of accountability and transparency and the abuse of power by PG and his Deacons, which were the primary causes of the crisis in Calvary Church.

The joke of it is that the proposed procedures in dispute settlement as highlighted above is something PG and his deacons do not subscribe to, anyway. 

The purpose appears to be more of an attempt to muzzle the unhappy members and disallow them to refer Church disputes to external parties rather than a genuine objective of wanting to resolve Church issues amicably.

Anyhow, the members at the AGM approved the adoption of the amendment to the Constitution and it is understood that the Church has submitted the same to the AOG Malaysia for their endorsement. 

It should be highlighted here that the approval and adoption of this Proposed Amendment to the Constitution may be invalidated, if challenged in Court due to the breach of the Rules and Procedures set out in the Constitution governing such motions. The breaches are:-

1.  Rule IX (6) (c) requires that such motion must bear the full name and address of the proposer and seconder and duly signed by them. 

If you look at the letter below from David Peter and the motion, there are no details and no signatures of the Proposer and Seconder. David Peter submitted the motion to the Board of Deacons but he did not specify if he was the Proposer or if he was merely submitting a motion he has received from someone else.


2.   Rule IX (6) (d) requires that the Secretary of the Board of Deacons distribute the   motion to all members at least 14 days before the AGM.

      This was not done. A copy of the motion was slotted into the Annual Report,     which was not mailed to the members but was required to be personally collected by the members prior to the AGM. Since not all members collected their Annual Report, many attended the AGM with no knowledge of the proposed motion. The onus is on the Secretary to prove the distribution of the motion to all members at least 14 days before the AGM.

The Proposed Amendment is also not well thought out. It does not spell out what the aggrieved member can do if the Church, Pastor or leader or the AOG General Superintendent or Assistant General Superintendent refuse to cooperate and abide by the rules, that is, if they refuse to negotiate, refuse to mediate or refuse to join the arbitration. It is also not stated what happens if they abide by the procedures but refuses to abide by the decision of the arbitrators. 

It is surprising that David Peter, as a lawyer, is unable to adequately advise his fellow Deacons on the above rules and draft a better crafted Amendment. 

As the Chairman of the Constitution Review Committee, he should make it a priority and a matter of urgency to look into the areas of check and balances that any good Constitution must have. 

He should look into provisions that will safeguard the interests of the members and prevent the unhealthy situation of a Senior Pastor having absolute power and control.  

He should study some of the other Churches’ Constitutions where the spirit of love, justice and respect for the members are embodied, where the need for accountability and transparency is recognized and accepted.

There is no hope for Calvary Church if things do not change. Times have changed, people have changed. The cry for greater transparency, accountability and good governance is getting louder by the day. This is evident in our country and everywhere else. It is indeed “Bersih” time for Calvary Church. If the Board of Deacons do not start the clean-up in God’s House now, God Himself will do it !!

To read click on the images to enlarge

David's letter













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347 comments:

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Anonymous said...

MESSAGE FOR AOG REV'S & PASTORS WHO HUMILIATE OTHER PASTORS BY DEMEANING THEM SUBTLY- WHOEVER YOU ARE.
............................
Fault-finding is a popular pastime, and unfortunately a lot of us find it’s easy to join the fun. Concentrating on the warts of others is a great way to feel better about ourselves. And that’s just the problem. Avoiding the faults that need to be fixed in our own lives not only stunts our spiritual growth but also obstructs God’s work through us. God’s effectiveness through our lives is enhanced or hindered by the way we live.

It’s no wonder, then, that Paul made a concerted effort to “put no obstacle in anyone’s way” (2 Cor. 6:3 ESV). For him there was nothing more important than his usefulness for Christ in the lives of others. Anything that got in the way of that was dispensable.

If you want to be authentic and useful for God, take an obstacle inventory. Sometimes obstacles are things that in and of themselves may be legitimate, yet in certain contexts may be inappropriate. But sin is clearly obstructive to others. Gossip, slander, boasting, bitterness, greed, abuse, anger, selfishness, and revenge all close the hearts of those around us to the message of God through us.

So, replace your faults with the winsome ways of Jesus. That will enable others to see your “no-fault” Savior more clearly.

MONKEY NINJA'S SAY NO TO TURTLE GOSSIP.

Anonymous said...

There are a few pastors doing Gods will- others are just plain lost.These are the ones you can see sitting in the teh tarik stalls and crappping away.Nothing against pastors drinking tea there- but if they spend lots of time there- you can be sure that somethings amiss.

Anonymous said...

ERRANT PASTORS MUST BE HANDED OVER TO THE POLICE

Some years back our Pastor got involved with a scandal which involved a church worker who was only 16 years old.Needless to say he was a married man. Since this was a reproach on the whole church leadership, so the matter was hush- hushed. The Pastor got booted out and hurried away from the church. But the girl went into depression and has not recoverd until this day.So much time and money spent on counselling and anti- depressant medication.I was sitting on the Church Board then/.

In view of the current state of the pastoral ministry, I am of the view that pastors who behave like this must be handed over to the police to be charged and flogged. Only then other potential offenders will realize the severity of their behaviour.

I believe the time has come to set the foot down against these bullshitters!!! And that includes CC leadership.

DISGUSTED.

Anonymous said...

I believe the time has come to set the foot down against these bullshitters!!! And that includes CC leadership.
.......................................I agree with the above suggestion. These jokers are so sly and sleek that by the time they are caught with their pants down.. the whole church is reeling in shock.If there is one thing that is lacking in the body of Christ it is discernment.We load all the responsibilities to the pastors thinking he is above it all- and incapable. And then cometh the sudden exposure but by then its too late.I agree with one author here- Pastors must be put under the Board and must not have a direct say in church finances.

AND NEVER BE FOOLED BY HIS SPIRITUAL TALK.HE IS NOT ABOVE IT ALL AS HE WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE.HE IS CAPABLE OF IT-JUST LOOK AT THE AOG'S SCANDALOUS HISTORY- ALL DONE BY MARRIED REVERENDS!! IN THIS ASPECT WE DESERVE A PLACE IN THE GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS.

NO MONKEY BUSINESS

Anonymous said...

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS – Warning by Apostle Paul

This is a SERIOUS WARNING from Apostle Paul:

Romans 16: 17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."

If your church pastors teach something which is CONTRARY to the NT teachings, stay away from their church; they are leading you astray.

Anonymous said...

If your church pastors teach something which is CONTRARY to the NT teachings, stay away from their church; they are leading you astray.
..................................
I am not really a Bible reader nor a spiritual sort of guy.I attend church once a week and that is more than enough for me.These preachers just talk through their noses.I used to sit with certain 2 pastors to drink teh tarik- the senior and his assistant.I got the impression that these men are great with the Bible- can quote so many verses.But they also tend to probe into other peoples lives.I had this humorous incident once- while drinking tea with them one day- there was this beautiful lady in a tight mini-skirt passing by- and Oh My- one pastor( the younger one) was so distracted with eyes oogling and the other tried to remain calm-but was embarassed.

I was telling this incident to my wife and she just laughed out loud.

So where were they trained? I heard that even lady lecturers in their training school prey on their own students and marry them.

In my opinion,these jokers just need to get another job with a stern supervisor over them.Or a strong Church Board over them who dont fall for their spiritual crap or their so called Reverend status.

Just look what is going on at CC.The reason SP is behaving like this is that there is no strong Church Board who can call him into account. In fact he is like a CEO-he need not be accountable to anyone. It is a self made position and only the stupid will fall for it.I have searched for the word Rev.in my Bible and still could not find it.So what does Rev. mean anyway??

Just my 2 cents worth.

Anonymous said...

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won.There have been tyrants,and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they will always fall.Think of it- always.

Mahatma Gandhi.

SP and leadership may hold the reins at CC right now- buthow much time have they got left? Wisdom has departed from their heads and hearts. To them- I say- go earn your bread somewhere else.Swallow your pride and go.

Anonymous said...

response to:-

Personally, I think the demands of Bersih2.0 – for electoral reforms and the right to have a peaceful march - were not only reasonable, but impartial as well. Bersih2.0 was not pro-opposition but pro-democracy.

The people of Malaysia are maturing in democracy and we can no longer tolerate
unfair practices, corruption, vote-buying and otherwise. Being “blindfolded” like Lady
Justice also means we are color blind, i.e. it does not matter if you wear red T-shirts
or have green banners, nor does it matter if you are yellow, black or brown-skinned.

A right is a right. A wrong is a wrong regardless of whether it is committed by the
government or the opposition or whomsoever.
.................................
This is what TTG had been asking for from CC. No point seeing the speck in others eyes when there is a log in our your eyes.

REQUEST TO NECF; be bold for once- request the same thing from CC without "explaining yourselves" why you wont interfere.

Anonymous said...

I think the pastor's job is just like another job with a salary and nice perks thrown in.In the secular side there is office politics and on the pastoral side- there is pastoral politics.Which pastor is not clickish? You know of any? My pastor is a confirmed case- has the disease of factionalism. No doubt about that.

Leave them alone- blind leading the blind- both will fall into the pit.

Anonymous said...

I had this humorous incident once- while drinking tea with them one day- there was this beautiful lady in a tight mini-skirt passing by- and Oh My- one pastor( the younger one) was so distracted with eyes oogling and the other tried to remain calm-but was embarassed.

...................................
IT TOOK SO LONG FOR YOU TO NOTICE?? MAYBE GOD LET YOU SEE IT FOR WHO THEY ARE REALLY ARE . WITHOUT A REV.TITLE AND A PULPIT- THEY ARE NOTHING(Maybe can sell some char koay teow in the pasar malam).


You shall know them by their fruits- not by their fantastic spiritual sounding sppeches.

Anonymous said...

Holy and Reverend is God’s Name – Psalm 111:9 (KJV)

Anon August 20, 2011 11:35 AM “I have searched for the word Rev.in my Bible and still could not find it.So what does Rev. mean anyway??”

The word “reverend” is found in Psalm 111:9 KJV ie “He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: HOLY and REVEREND is His name.”

These so-called religious pastors have shamefully USURPED God’s name for themselves. Since they know the Bible well having studied a few years in bible colleges/universities, then they must have KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY accepted the title of “reverend” for themselves.

This is HORRIBLE – men even dare to use God’s name for themselves. Why won’t they call themselves Almighty God John Doe.

What a blasphemy.

Would you still want to attend a church where your pastor is using God’s name – Reverend.

Anonymous said...

Grace and Peace to all Christians this coming Sunday. Regards. TTG - keep up the good fight. Bless you all.

Greatest Con Job said...

You mean he's still using the same con phrase "God gave me a message to have a collection for CCC!!!" And many are still being conned? OMG!

Anonymous said...

So many things have happened to CC not only for the past few years that has to do with constitution, AGM, EGM, complaints etc. Even before all these surfaced there were so call many other issues mainly has to do with SP...decisions, styles, treatments, accountabilities...etc.
It appears that SP is keeping his focus on CCC and doing his work. The church is doing it's work. TTG via the CT is voicing it's strong opinions. Those who have their opinions is voicing their disatisfactions.
The facts remained. CC's credibility is being questioned and at stake these few years. Who is in denial? SP's reputation...how to descbibe?...everybody knows! Pershap CCC will help change that for him. It's call the rewriting of history and legacy. But legacy is perceived and judged by the public. Who is right and who is wrong? What does God has to say?The church is God's church. Leaderdership is still human! There are two sides of the coin. The facts still remained!There are many questions not answer. Again what can anybody says? That's why every thing is what it is today! Serious implications!

Anonymous said...

You mean he's still using the same con phrase "God gave me a message to have a collection for CCC!!!" And many are still being conned? OMG!
.................................
I dont think SP and gang will ever be cured of this disease.It is in their blood. It has gotten hold of SK and RY- they are natural liars beggars now- their behaviour behind the pulpit is self explanatory.No need to be explained. Bye and Cheers.

Former Calvarite.

Anonymous said...

Holy and Reverend is God’s Name – Psalm 111:9 (KJV)
...................................Oh My God- this verse is really in the Bible and it is Gods Name? Thank you so much.This is the first time I have come across this verse.

So why are these jokers using Gods Name as theirs? Who started this off? Certainly my church Rev.does not resemble God-our pastor falls ill about 3 dozen times in a year and does not turn up for work.Yau Sek thai Tin See!!

I think this needs to be voiced out. Instead of the word Rev.before their name they should insert "Servant" This would be more appropriate. Just look what titles can do to a person- the string of titles SP has. By the way- I did not notice the word Emeritius in the Bible too.What an exposure!! God help us from this frauds sitting in the seat of Moses!!!

If the word Sultan was available maybe he would grab at that too!!

Anonymous said...

A right is a right. A wrong is a wrong regardless of whether it is committed by the
government or the opposition or whomsoever.
..............................
FITLY SPOKEN BY NECF! SO WHY WERE YOU QUIET DURING THE ONGOING CC CRISIS? YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATION, SIR??

Anonymous said...

Hey Folks, CC is getting into massive debt.Get out of it while you still can.Don't live the rest of your Christian life contributing to a self made delusion. Its already expensive living in the city. Save for your family,their education and for your own retirement.Don't be fooled by these Pentecostal Clowns with their so called vision.These Rev's live off the congregation and have pretty decent salaries.Maybe better than the rest of us.Again I say to you- dont be fooled by their Bible talk!!Wake up and be on your guard.Of flee!!

Anonymous said...

Would you still want to attend a church where your pastor is using God’s name – Reverend.
................................
I have no chioce because my wife and family attend this so called Rev. Fact is, behind that Rev.title is a gossipper who runs down other pastors. Everyone has faults except himself!!The sinless lamb of God waking on the face of this earth. But what else can he do- in the secular world his qualifications amounts to what?? Maybe can sell cendol or yau char kueh!! But in the church they behave like they own it.

Anonymous said...

My Pastor is literally tip-toeing around the church these days and I think it has something to do with this blog.Well done. True- there are nasty comments here but I think with the current situation - it has become necessary.Let the truth be spoken- because maybe they want to axe this blod like they axed the 400!!

May you be blessed in the coming week.

Anonymous said...

The word “reverend” is found in Psalm 111:9 KJV ie “He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: HOLY and REVEREND is His name.”

...............................
WOW!!! WHAT A REVELATION- TAKING THE TITLE OF GOD UPON THEMSELVES!!!MAYBE THESE ARE THE ANTI-CHRISTS JESUS WARNED US ABOUT!!!MAYBE THATS WHY THE CHURCH IS IN THIS MESS.

Anonymous said...

WHY I STOPPED GOING TO AN AOG CHURCH.(SMALL KAMPUNG CHURCH UP NORTH)

My Pastor's every other line would be " God told me....

As I was praying yesterday night of what I should preach this Sunday morning.. the Lord revealed to me.....

The Lord told me there is a man on my left who has a problem in his kidneys and He wants to heal you.( 2 years later the kidney problems are still there.Now she has got a depression problem as well.)

The Lord clearly told me that there is a man debating in his mind whether he should be paying titles....

I saw in my mind a vision of heaven....strawberry fruit... and it tasted like ice-cream..and a bit of vanilla flavor....


The Son of God was cruicified naked....and this is how we all will appear before God....
(At least I hope I can wear my sarong on Judgment day)

I TELL YOU... HE IS A NICE MAN, definitely non malicious.BUT THE TRAINING OR TEMPERAMENT IS SUSPECT.Our family still supports them financially,but we just dont have the heart to say anything against him- because he is a fragile sort of person- and we dont want to hurt anyone by our words or deeds. Why do good people turn out to be like this?

How to get a title said...

To become a reverend, some organizations or churches requires a bachelor's degree and other churches require seminary courses. Very few organizations or churches give honourary endorsements, or endorsements from mentoring and apprenticeship, but they are still out there.

Bethesa Christian University (Anaheim, California) and Hansei University, Seoul, Korea, both founded by David Yonggi Cho in 1976 and 1986 respectively does give honourary doctorate degrees.

Rev Robert Lim, founder of Evangel Family Church, who is PG's very, very close bosom pal, has only got a Diploma from BIM, M'sia in 1966. He is a member of the Board of Directors in Cho's Church Growth International, and was conferred Honourary Doctor of Divinity from Bethesa Christian University in Oct. 1989.

Robert's wife Marion Lim who was the former Senior Pastor at EFC before relinquishing the post to her son Dale, was also conferred the same honourary doctorate in May 1997.

Rev Kong Hee, Senior Pastor of City Harvest Church who is also a member of Cho's Church Growth International, was conferred a Honourary Doctor of Business Administration from Hansei University, Seoul, Korea.

Cho's wife - Kim Sung Hae is the President, Hansei University and the Chancellor, Bethesa Christian University.

Being conferred these honourary doctorates, the recipenst can use "Rev" in front of their names.

So, it is common for pastors to be given honourary doctorates and they will proudly use "rev" in their names. Wonder how many AP's and PG, PG2 fall in this category.

I was given to understand that PG2's was given a honourary doctorate and CC celebrated this occasion in a grant way. hah! Do correct me if I'm mistaken.

A M.D. (Doctor of Medicine) can be become a reverend but a reverend cannot become a M.D.!

In 2004, a Seoul extension of Bethesa Christian University, a private institution founded by Cho in Anaheim, Claifornia was shutdown after generating controversy for being a non-accredited institution after five years of operation.

On Jul 20, 2011, a protest by 30 Elders was held outside Yoido Full Gospel Church which was founded by Cho. The protest was for Cho to step down and relinquish his hold on the finances of the church which runs in billions. Again it's money, money and money. Anyway, respects goes to the Elders who act responsibly with transparency and good governance. In CC one can dream until the cows come home and the Deacons will be too cowardly to act thus!

Anonymous said...

Referring to How to get a title Aug.21@3:36pm,

Google: type: protest by 30 elders at yoido full gospel and then search

Then you can read the report in urban christian news.

Taking this cue, perhaps to bring greater awareness to the public and the world at large, a protest with banners and placards at CCC during the PWC 2013 would indeed help the cause of truth, transparency and good governance.

And also the parking of the Indonesian tsunami collection in CIM can be highlighted.

Not to forget the axing of 400 members without just cause or due hearing.

Anonymous said...

Last Sunday during collection time, SK said that CC needs RM6 mil and tried very, very hard to impress upon the congregation the need to give more, more and more to the tune of RM6 mil. so that CC would not have to draw on the bank loan and therefore has to pay interest. Very nice! CC saves bank interest while the congregation pays dearly for one-man's vision. The fame and glory seeking PG wants to leave a legacy as the man who built CCC. Legacy is a perception and my,oh my, his legacy will be one which has put CC in dire financial trouble.

In today's Sunday service, it was TO's (who had just returned from US) turn to ask for more money for the RM6 mil CCC needs.

Rest assured this asking for more money will be repeated for every Sunday until October. Unless this comment is relayed to them because PG had forbidden them to read the blog. Your guess is as good as mine - it's a certainty that even if they do not read the blog, they can always get updates from others who are tasked to do so on their behalf.

Anonymous said...

I was given to understand that PG2's was given a honorary doctorate and CC celebrated this occasion in a grant way. hah! Do correct me if I'm mistaken.
................................

Of course most of these Rev. jokers did not study for their Doctorate.They were given the title on a silver platter.To my knowledge there is only one pastor who studied for it- Dr.Vincent Yeoh of GTPJ. To get a doctorate, one must first do a proposal to be approved by a Board. And the Board may ask questions as to how this will benefit anyone.If the proposal is approved then you can start on your Doctorate thesis under the supervision of a supervisor. The whole thing is an expensive affair and will take a minimum of 3-8 years of academic research.

So when an AOG Pastor produces his name with the title Dr.Rev. So & So..I usually ask him/her what research did they do? Usually the answers are vague and the topic is avoided.I even had one AOG pastor who told me he did it in 6 months -it was a course over a computer.

There is much to be done in the AOG system and I believe TTG is the starting point to initiate change.I think this blog has brought much needed awareness for many.Now Christians have a common forum to speak and none of the AOG Pastors can come here and demand that we submit to their authority and shut up. In the church they have the power of the pulpit but here they don't have it. So I can imagine their frustration.This is one place that they don't have the control.And it is vexing them.

It is alarming that SP can axe 400 and still stand up and preach.He should sit down and do some serious reflecting.He does not carry that kind of moral clout anymore.Of course, he can continue pretending that the crisis is over.This begging at CC is now official.It wont stop.Lets stand together and say No to errant pastors and show them the door.As DAP Lim Kit Siang said "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!" As a Christian Community- let's say the same thing to this "Ou Siau " Pastors.WE have to do this, before another AOG minister pulls the same stunt in another church.

Anonymous said...

Last Sunday during collection time, SK said that CC needs RM6 mil and tried very, very hard to impress upon the congregation the need to give more, more and more to the tune of RM6 mil
..............................
If they want 6M then they can sell off their properties and empty their own bank accounts. If they are really sincere in CCC vision- that is. But as it is- they wont part with their own money.So use the Bible and a pulpit as oftentimes AOG churches do.

Anonymous said...

In the church they have the power of the pulpit but here they don't have it. So I can imagine their frustration.This is one place that they don't have the control.And it is vexing them.
..............................
This is just so true.They want to control everyone and everything. When as a young lady I was dating this guy from another church of another denomination- my Pastor counselled me against it. Said it was not God's will.Well, we married a few years later and my pastor refused to officiate our wedding saying that the church had its own policy.So we got married in a secular setting.I thank God for my own family and many Christian friends who stood with us.

Well to make it short,we have 3 children and my husband is a homely sort of person- and he brought security into my life.We are attending a non- AOG church now.My mother just loves him- I think more than me ... sometimes I tease him that I hope he is not having an affair with my mum!!!She is in her 80's now.

But the odd fact is--my previous pastor is divorced now. His wife found out he was sleeping around with a college kid somewhere.

WE have nothing against that pastor. But we as a family are glad that we did not listen to his advice. This church policy thing- plain bullshit!!!

Anonymous said...

A MESSAGE TO PASTORS
Dear Pastors, Generally you are an okay group. But you must not divide yourselves into cliques assessing another pastors importance by the number of people who are attending their churches.

Never frown or look down on others.Who are you to be judging others ? You plow the land God has given you.Just look at what goes on at CC? You want to be like them?

Just 10 years ago- pastors were greatly respected. But what has happened now? Stop the bickering and the backbiting yourselves first and never badmouth another pastor before your church members. It says a lot about your own pathetic spiritual state.

Remember, you may have a name in the AOG system (Yau Meng? but it the last analysis - how does God view you? So if you minister to 1,000 and wound and afflict just one- you think it would be forgotten before God? Remember Nathan's parable before David.

Don't turn your church into another CC episode and start blaming the devil.

Farewell.

Anonymous said...

THERE IS REALLY NOT MUCH TIME LEFT
SOON THE HEAVENS WILL RULE THE EARTH
THE EARTH WILL MIRE IN DISASTERS
INDEED MANY WILL BE SHOCKED & SORRY.

THE MORNING STAR

Anonymous said...

Dear Saints

Earlier in the posts there was a discussion about {Jesus becoming poor in order that we may then be "rich"}. Of course, it should be evident to you sheep of Christ that what was really meant was that when Jesus came to earth and then shed his blood on the cross His Loss of Life then though righteous,was for us human's benefit by virtue of God's Acceptance of that Sacrifice of Jesus. So we humans become RICH in GRACE from GOD while Jesus became POOR in LOSS OF LIFE.
SUBSEQUENTLY GOD the Father's Acceptance of Jesus Righteous Sacrifice then ALLOWED JESUS TO RISE AND HENCE OVERCOME DEATH FOR ALL WHO WOULD FOLLOW HIM HENCE BECOMING RECEIPIENTS OF GOD'S RICHNESS OF GRACE.
jOSH

Anonymous said...

LOOKING FOR 6 MILLION RM MAN / WOMAN ?

Now hear this, folks. Now it is official. The CC leadership, confirmed by the recent public annoucements during Sunday service, through SK and To, is looking high and low for a 6 million RM person (man or woman) - someone who "is dying, ready to leave (SK) 6 million RM" (as per SK's message". It does not matter whether handsome or beautiful, young or old. Main criteria - he / she must be FILTHY ... RICH ... !

Wow ! Talk of being money minded !!! This is hard core materialistic, man !!! Hey, this is happening in a church, which boasts of being a fountainhead church !!!

Puzzling question : How come GOD is NOT in their picture ? How come they are NOT seeking GOD first ?

Answer: We strongly believe based on their past and present behaviors and speeches, because they do NOT have GOD in their hearts. We also conclude CCC is NOT in GOD's grand plan because God chooses to reside in Man'ws hearts, not some mega structures, to be built to honor a satanic priest, with his cohorts, lording over his cult kingdom, which will crush into dust over time.

So now you know CCC is failing, falling like a malfunctioned rocket towards doom.

Btw, your 6 million RM or even dollar man ain't gonna help you, Peeg Geee and co. You can bet on that !

The only "legacy" that Peeg Geee will be "remembered" as the bloody fool who destroyed, financially, emotionally, spiritually,CC thru CCC, C-land and other wasteful, self serving, born loser projects. it would serve as a warning to other such sinful evil leaders in other churches or organisations.

Anonymous said...

So we humans become RICH in GRACE from GOD while Jesus became POOR in LOSS OF LIFE.
SUBSEQUENTLY GOD the Father's Acceptance of Jesus Righteous Sacrifice then ALLOWED JESUS TO RISE AND HENCE OVERCOME DEATH FOR ALL WHO WOULD FOLLOW HIM HENCE BECOMING RECEIPIENTS OF GOD'S RICHNESS OF GRACE.
jOSH

that is true Josh - but in that verse the context is talking about material wealth, furthermore "and all these things will be added unto you in matt 6 JESUS IS SAYING THAT ALL THE MATERIAL THINGS THAT THE HEATHENS SEEK GOD WILL GIVE YOU IF YOU MAKE HIM FIRST PRIORITY IN YOUR LIFE. what you don't want to see is where Jesus himself is promising wealth to you - read the scriptures for your self.

Anonymous said...

What a blasphemy.

Would you still want to attend a church where your pastor is using God’s name – Reverend.
...................................
Thanks so much. I never knew this knowledge. No -I don't want to submit to anyone who uses Gods title as his own. My family is praying now for Gods guidance to a church where titles are not a big thing.God bless you. This is really horrifying!!!Taking Gods Name on themselves. Puah-Siau!!!God protect all of us!!

Alarmed.

Anonymous said...

FROM A FALLEN AOG MINISTER

I was involved in a scandal many years ago ( not sexual)and I got into trouble and my license was removed.Whenever I visit an AOG church I get such an unwelcome look by the Reverend pastors that I attend a church of different denomination now.And no other pastors have sought me out to enquire about my welfare.Instead I have become a hot topic of conversation in their private fellowship forever.

I don't expect their mentality to change anytime soon. Just have to move on.

TTG- keep up the good work.Its time for house cleansing.But this is a difficult thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Dear Saint

Yes, Jesus said "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God...and all these things will be added onto you"......fine.
So its clear here that each and everyone who loves Jesus upon receiving him should continue then and seek "ye" first the kingdom of God..subsequently,as God sees fit and proper for that "respective" saint in Christ...he will add onto you such things as He finds GOOD for that respective saint.. EVEN as the true walk continues. However, if by any chance there is a hint(at least to Christ) that a "particular" saint is now "wallowing/indulging" in his or her "prosperity" then one would think that such a "wallowing/indulgence" would itself become a HINDRANCE for a continued true walk in Christ..which or rather where incidently, another scripture in the gospels does mention WHAT CHRIST SAID THAT "it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than the rich man himself who "now" treasures his riches greatly that obedience to God is secondary currently.
So my dear, that is a "lesson" here for one and all on this matter where many have fallen or lie fallen. pEACE TO YOU.
jOSH

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO :-
FROM A FALLEN AOG MINISTER
............................
Did you really expect those Reverends to seek you out,embrace you and restore you back into their fellowship? Maybe if you are the son of some prominent millionaire they will find the time for you.But as it is,most of us are nobodies- very little status and money.Restoration will never happen in the AOG Denomination.Most of them are busy with their building programmes and raising money for their churches that they have no time for anything else. ( JUST DO SOME CHARITY WORK ONCE A YEAR TO "CUCI MATA" TO DECEIVE EVERYONE)

But maybe you should see the bigger picture. I believe that you have learnt so much from the system that you can see better and serve better. However I doubt that there will ever be a future for you within the AOG. The spirit that governs AOG system will reject it because by now many are BECOMING aware that it is not the Spirit of Christ but the work of religiously educated rebrobates concerning the faith who control the churches.But take heart.You are not the only one who has discovered this- there have been other prominent AOG names who have fallen over the years and they have become anonymous.

Lastly dear Sir,thanks for sharing your experience.Lets pray for a change in the system. Do you know why this blog was birthed?? This is a little ray of light bringing awareness to the body of Christ.This is a much needed awareness.And Church "Reverends" are not in control here.Even the Goverment is vexed by bloggers now.

Lets hope and pray that the next generation of leadership will not be religious demons & wolves hiding behind a Reverend Title- but will be God fearing and will not abuse Gods people.

God bless & Bye. Shalom Pastor.You are much loved.So it is written by the Most High- and so we believe and rest in hope.

MARKETPLACE CHRISTIANS

Anonymous said...

iN THE 70'S THER WAS A MOVIE TITLES "the 6 million dollar man". lITTLE DID I EXPECT TO SEE A REAL 6MILLION DOLLAR MAN BEHIND THE PULPIT AT OUR BELOVED CC!!

SK- CUT THE NOSENSE - AND FOR YOUR REPUTATION SAKE- STOP THE APPEAL "BEFORE YOU DIE". ITS REAL INSULTING TO THE CONGREGATION.SHAMEFUL STATE OF AFFAIRS.

Anonymous said...

My apstor has got a Dr.Rev. Title too but everyone knows that he did not study for it.Not to be offensive- he just does not have the intellectual capacity for it.It takes years to obtain a doctorate- lots of research work. To be frank- he has about 2 dozen books in his library- from Oswald Chambers to Corrie Ten Boom and A. W.Tower. It is common knowledge that you need more than these books to achieve a doctorate.

The AOG system need to have a clear guideline on these titles. I believe that there are quite a few AOG ministers in our midst who carry the Dr. Status.But if you start probing as to what subject they researched- they become evasive and defensive. So I guess we just have to leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

Honourary doctorates dished out by theological universities whereby the recipients can use "rev" in their names are not only given by Bethesa Christian University and Hansei University, there are also other such universities in US which do so, too.

Certainly there are many others besides Robert Lim, his wife Marion and Kong Hee who got their honourary doctorates from Bethesa and Hansei. Cannot help but get the feeling that Bethesa's and Hansei's honourary doctorates come cheaply. If you are in Cho's good books, your chances are good lah.

Try to guess how many pastors in CC have got their honourary doctorates.

D. Litt. (Doctor of Letters) is often honourary. PG has it. PG is a member of Directors of Northwest University since 1990.

Anonymous said...

Last week RY ask several questions in order to stimulate people to save and give for CCC; when he himself never did that.
He ask these questions when shopping:
Do you need it?
Do you need it now?
Can you afford it?
Can you live without it?

To be fair, we should ask the same questions about CCC?
Q: Do you need it?
A: No, we don't need a freemason design serpent building that put the church in debt while neglect all ministries.
Q: Do you need it now?
A: No, we don't need CCC at all. Not now, nor the future. PG's plan has break unity despite what they try to do now in hypocrisy.
Q: Can you afford it?
A: No. CCC put the church in great debt while put the name of Christianity in shame.
Q: Can you live without it?
A: Yes, CCC is just an ambition of PG who want to use church money to boost his fame. It is never for the people. In fact, more people are harmed by it than blessed by it.

Anonymous said...

AS MENTIONED EARLIER:
THERE IS REALLY NOT MUCH TIME LEFT
THE HEAVENS WILL RULE THE EARTH
THE EARTH WILL MIRE IN DISASTERS
INDEED MANY WILL BE SHOCKED & SORRY
THE EARTH CLEANSING HAS BEGUN.

THE MORNING STAR

Anonymous said...

Me and family have known for some time now that many of this Revs have a whoremongering problem- problem of whispering bad things to others.

With the awareness this blog has created-may the chruch Reverends give up this filthy habit.

Anonymous said...

Last week RY ask several questions in order to stimulate people to save and give for CCC; when he himself never did that.
He ask these questions when shopping:
Do you need it?
Do you need it now?
Can you afford it?
Can you live without it?
.............................

Do you need it? Yes- we desperately need it for our ego. After all "god" gave this vison to SP. And we must have it at all costs.ERven if it drags us into debt by the millions.

Do you need it now?
Yes.The World Pentecostal Conference is just around the corner- and we need to impress the visitors.JUst imagine the glory man... this is it!!!

Can you afford it?
No- we can't afford it- but dont tell anyone.There are many ways that we can make the dumb sheep obligated to give.We are already working on a few weak spirited believers to give 6 million!! Thi is really exciting!!!

Can you live without it?
Nope we cant live without it.Please understand- we just dont know what to do with our time and our limited qualifications. At most this new CCC we are building will define us and make a grandiose statement about us. And now to answer you question- nope we cant live without it.

We must build it at all costs and will boot out anyone who stands in our way. Haven't you learnt anything when we axed the 400??Sust up if you dont want to get the boots too.

We love you all.

Anonymous said...

The biggest con job going on in LK right now is at CC. Audience beware. Dot give away your hard earned money for a bubble.
..................................

Anonymous said...

Lets hope and pray that the next generation of leadership will not be religious demons & wolves hiding behind a Reverend Title- but will be God fearing and will not abuse Gods people.
.................................

What has the current CC crisis spoken to all of us? SP came in as a humble servant but what has happened now? He has become so powerful. Because when power is concentrated in 1 person and a few of their dumb cronies this is the kind of situation we will get. Just look at the AOG system. It seems this Reverends are at the very top with a few spineless worms surrounding them - who we are told are the Board.The whole system needs to be revamped- because it stinks!!!

The church has the right to ask the Pastors for transparency and accountability.When the financial affairs are shrouded in mystery ( The Reverends salary, bonus and perks are always clouded in mist- why is that?)

When we have a system like this- the Pastor controls the church.So he welcomes who he likes into his/her and is indifferent to some.This mentality needs to be booted out from the church.Pastors are not the boss of the church.Just browse through the NT-where does it say that one Pastor presided over a congregation? And he is able to boot out 400 who disagree with him? Now what kind of church is that?? This situation raises a lot of questions for Christians who attend church.

Members have a right to know what is going on in the church they attend.The Malaysian citizenry is only recently maturing and is now demanding accountability from its leaders. Shady submarine deals,intrigues,suspected homosexual leaders,suspected murders and ripping off the tax payers money by the billions, and the list goes on. In this respect the church is no different from the secular leadership now.( Mind you, for the first time in Malaysian political history we have a PM who is a murder suspect.Teoh Beng Hock's death is still shrouded in mystery and the Raykat are getting agitated because they feel they cant get justice )

Let it be remembered that it is written "Judgment must begin in the House of God"

The Christian community should voice out its concerns to the present leadership.Its rather hypocritical to be demanding good governance from the Government when there is so much filth within the AOG system itself.

Let the CC crisis pave the pay for proper accountability.It can only come about when there is awareness in the Body of Christ.Lets say no to these hirelings crowning themselves with this " Reverend" titles.

For the sake of Good Governance in Church.

Anonymous said...

MESSAGE TO SP AND AOG PASTORS

SO- FINALLY GADDAFFI IS ON THE RUN?? THE MIDDLE EAST IS DEMONSTARTING SOME VERY VALUABLE LESSONS FOR STIFFNECKED CHURCH LEADERS WHO THINK THEY ARE SOMEBODY'S AND ARE STAGE ACTORS!!

ONLY ONE PERSON RULES FOREEVER AND HIS NAME IS THE MOST HIGH.WHEN THE SHAH OF IRAN GAVE HIMSELF THE TITLE 'KING OF KINGS" - THAT IS THE SAME YEAR, A SIMPLETON WHO DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POLITICS ROSE TO POWER - THE AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI SURFACED AND BROUGHT THE SHAH'S FAMILY DYNASTY DOWN AND THE ROYAL LINE WAS ENDED BY A BEARDED MAN FROM UN UNKNOWN VILLAGE!!

LEARN THE LESSON SP AND AOG POWER LOVING PASTORS.OR REPEAT THE LESSON. IF THERE IS SOMETHING UNDER YOUR CARPET, GET RID OF IT AND REPENT-OUR GOD IS A GRACIOUS AND FORGIVING GOD. GO TO YOUR PRAYER CLOSET NOW AND HUMBLE YOURSELF IN THE DUST AND GET RESTORED- OR FACE THE WRATH TO COME.

FAREWELL.

REMEMBER IT IS WRITTEN IN OUR BIBLE-GOD SHOWS NO FAVOURTISM AND YOUR REVEREND STATUS IS NOT GOING TO IMPRESS HIM ONE LITTLE BIT.REPENT FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. OR PAY THE PRICE. FAREWELL.

SP- I SAY AGAIN- RESTORE THE SCATTERED SHEEP- OR YOUR OWN FAMILY MAY BE SCATTERED.

Anonymous said...

Church is not what is used to be these days.High titled persons, dubious qualification ( so called Dr's), quack healings and cliquish peope are running the system.

I think the axing of 400 Christians is unprecedented in Malaysian religious history- particularl;y the AOG.CC definitely is entitled to recognition for that delisting exercise.What is most amazing is the fact that he got away with it!!! That by itself should speak volumes to the simpleton christian worshipping and giving his money to these so called churches and their so called reverends.

In CC when it comes to parting with your money- there is always slow sentimental music in the background.It is no more the Spirit of God moving.Its all about giving money these days and they are pretty blunt about it.Just consider the following by SK- Will somebody give 6 million before you die?"


NO POINT PRETENDING- ICHABOD- THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED FROM CC ..PRAY AGAINST ERRANT LEADERS LIKE ELIJAH WHO PRAYED AGAINST ISRAEL AND IT DID NOT RAIN..( ROMANS)

What a pathetic state of affairs.Shame on the AOG leadership-- frauds and quack leaders. Honour has departed and thick skin has developed at CC leadership.

Its ai time to weep.

Anonymous said...

To Anony. 25th August 11.17am. I really don't think the next generation of leadership would change or be any better than today. It could only get worse. Why? Because God in His Word prophesy that Jesus will not come unless a great falling away takes place. This startling testimony of a great apostasy is so apparent today and will continue till the Lord comes. The falling away of CC leadership along with many other churches around the world had set the stage for the soon return of Jesus Christ, and judging from what we are seeing, the Lord's return is getting even sooner than we think. The Lord had said that when He returns, He will not find faith on earth.

RICHbutPOOR said...

you wanna be rich, pls pls go for it, but if your neighbours are poor you are just the ordinary man on the street. so hard to go to heaven for those rich man ,bible says...don't use your lawyer talk ya..do not use church to make money lah.....read your bible and believe...

Anonymous said...

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Malaysia Rank 25,507

Anonymous said...

ONCE UPON A TIME...

Grace and Peace to all the Christian Brethren.It's the Raya Season and I have something to say.

Once upon a time when I was a young Christian( More than 2 decades ago) during the Raya season our congregation would gather together and the Pastor would lead us into,which according to him was "spiritual warfare".What a mayhem it was- shaking tamborines and beating the drums and binding whatever was supposed to be there attacking us!! The whole church was gathered in fasting and prayer and we prayed against the spirit of Raya.

In hindsight - what a ridiculous way to spend the Raya holidays- praying against our neighbours. Fasting and Prayer was okay but what we prayed against was definitely ridiculous and the works of a misguided pastor.

It appears that accepting titles of Datuk and Tan Sri's is okay but everything else is not okay.What a stupid way of looking at things.

May I urge all Chritians to visit our Malay neighbours during this Raya. Many of them do not have Christians stepping ino their homes. At the last Malay wedding I attended,I discovered I was the only Christian there.

We were born here- and in all likelihood, the majority of us will die in this land..unless you want to migrate and leave for good.

Jesus said" Let your light shine before men..." Its a time they can see that we are not troublemakers but peaceloving, courteous and have respect for their customs and the deeply entrenched Malay "adat".This is the Christian way- as I see it.

I have also noticed that there is much interaction among the younger generation between the different races.But it appears the oldies have decided to stick to their conservative ways. But I believe God is raising up a new generation to do His work and His light will continue to shine until the end of time.

May the good Lord bless you and give you wisdom, knowledge and grace as we interact with everyone.And if your Pastor preaches or speaks anything against any race- you can be sure that it is not from God.

May you be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bears its fruit in its season.God bless you all.may your Raya Holidays be blessed.

.......Christian Singh--

Anonymous said...

I dont think the AOG systems is about to change anytime soon. Sure - they can preach like angels...but if you get to know them personally ..you will most probably find a money loving Rev with a title on his head.In my experience with these so called Reverends- most of them have secret baggages and yet they can preach like Jesus is living next door to them. Sounds like crap to me.


Learn a lesson from the CC episode. If you get booted out-there is really nobody who will stand up for you.Don't be deceived at what these Reverends tell you- just see what they have done and it is self explanatory.

These are the real deceivers. They draw a salary from church folks but can behave to the point of excommunicating 400 worshippers.They can go and tell their Pentecostal stories to some other moron who has the misfortune of meetings these jokers.!!!

Anonymous said...

So where did the Reverend title originate? Any ideas of who got this title first? Rather curious now because my pastor is Dr.Rev. Dont know where he got it from ...suddenly started usuing it. God bless everyone.

Anonymous said...

Although David Peter proudly proclaimed at the AGM that the CC Constitution is the “most advanced Constitution among all the AOG churches in Malaysia”
..................................
David Peter is a daylight joker.He is just confirming the saying that lawyers are liars.What a spineless man and this is really an occassion for laughter..!!!

Ha...ha... hee.. heee. hoo...hooo..

Anonymous said...

NO POINT PRETENDING- ICHABOD- THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED FROM CC ..PRAY AGAINST ERRANT LEADERS LIKE ELIJAH WHO PRAYED AGAINST ISRAEL AND IT DID NOT RAIN..( ROMANS)

....................
This is a revelation. When Israel became stiffnecked again- Elijah did not pray for Israel but against Israel.Maybe this is what we should be praying against CC right now.

Anonymous said...

The worship at CC is no more glorious- its all hyped. The musicians look so depressed and without life.Looks like the Spirit of God has left our circle.And I dont think He will be visiting at the new CCC either. Farewell to those who are staying on. I attended last service today.

Anonymous said...

BE GOOD STEWARDS, TURN OFF THE TAP

Main Points

1. The Holy Bible teaches us to be good stewards of all the resources which our Holy God has placed in our hands - including money, time and God Given talents.
2. Reading through all the Calvary Today 2 blogs, we can only conclude that the present leadership at CC and for CCC is OPPOSITE of what the Holy Bible teaches us as TRUE CHRISTIANS. The present leadership is AGAINST Truth, Transparency, Accountability and Godly Governance. Run through the comments given by hundreds upon hundreds of CT2 bloggers, you see the true picture of these evil pastors.
3. They ask you to give to this cause, give to that cause... .
All the sermons centred on nothing else but give, give, give, give and give.
4. BUT they do not welcome questions enquiring MINUTE DETAILS on how they use the money, who gets how much salaries, perks, gifts, etc.
5. Look at the various failed projects including C-land and CCC being the latest. Just for example, C-land, costing millions was marketed as a safe haven for elderlies, orphans, single parents, etc - BUT now only have a very small number of inmates, when by right it should have maybe hundred.
6. What makes us think that CCC would be a success when all the previous harebrained schemes of this present born loser leader have failed miserably ?
7. STOP GIVING to CC and CCC. It is wrong to misuse God Given finances as Good Christian stewards. TOTT.

Anonymous said...

Pastors today seem to have grandiose plans for church buildings- and today it runs into the millions. Do we really need those big buildings to worship God? Its not the work of God but of someones ego.We could never have the heart to give the same amount to the poor.After all its our money.So we are prepared to spend millions on a building but if someone in our midst is dying of cancer or a strange disease- we say a prayer and turn a deaf ear to their real needs.

I have stopped giving to any church who have big plans for a cement building. To me church building must be moderate. I once visited a nightclub in Europe which had been a church before . And churches have been converted to horse stables and store rooms for storing furniture and what not's. What happened? Who built those massive buildings at that cost? And where did the money come from.

SP is on the wrong track and right now he is a bad example to the flock.He should step down and fulfill his real calling as an evangelist in his last days. But -- alas when so much money is involved-- who can walk away? Just key in and find out what is happening to Dr.Chonggi in Korea. A group of angry elders had gathered at the church door to demand that he stop meddling with the church finances and step down.

SP is in the same shoes. There is no need to take his preaching seriously.He is one man gripped with his own vision- and looks like he is not going to give up until he is brought to the grave.

Anonymous said...

What is being preached at CC is no more the Gospel - but the sermons of a backslidden money loving preacher.

Christians please dont pour your God given money on an expensive building. Make sure there is enough bread on your family table and don't feel guilty about not giving any money.


God bless you all.

Anonymous said...

Has the episode against CC leadership ended? Any other course of action? But I am most concerned with their misuse of church funds. Did SP and even some of his APs did actually misapropriate funds for their personal gains with all kinds of perks & benefits for themselves? Did SP secretly used the funds to gain personal wealth for himself & family members? The church funds had not been opened up for transparency but kept in secrecy knowned only to themselves. Are there any strong evidences and if so, any possible actions to pursue against them for CBT and corruptions since the funds are members money. This is what I most wanted to know, justice for contributing members.

Anonymous said...

SHOCKING BEHAVIORS AS PASTORS

Recently, Ps SK appealed to cc congregation, specifically to let him know "if anyone dying had RM 6,000,000.00 (RM 6Million) to pass to him". Without doubt, his downright crude and rude choice of words left many in the cc congregation shocked and disgusted. We the audience could not believe our ears, that a pastor in God's Holy Sanctuary, by his choice of words seemed to imply that he was, apparently, more interested in collecting / inheriting RM 6 million, than in the wellbeing and care of a dying person, whom he hoped to be his "sponsor". How nauseating ! How sickeningly insensitive of others' feelings...

We think his apparent insensitivity during his "speech" most likely must have further left a very poor public opinion of his mannerism, snowballing the deterioration of relationship between the congregation and certain pastors in cc. The saddest part is these pastors, seemingly, chose to ignore the serious damage done.

Resultantly, increasingly numerous members who could not stomach such nonsense, have uprooted themselves and migrated to othe churches.

Not surprising at all. And we don't blame them at all for making such decisions.

All these factors further aggravate the whole situation, with alarming repercussions to the already shrinking congregation size. So we experienced the fullness of a tragic comedy when the pastors ask whether there were any first time visitors each Sunday service, nobody stood up most of the time. During very rare occasions, one or two stood up.

Pastors of cc, we wish to ask you : "Who, in their right mind, with Christian conviction, with strict adherence to the Bible, would dare to or desire to recommend to their families, relatives, friends, associates, acquaintances, etc to "visit" this church or attend its service - with its present satanic leadersdhip and ever spiralling problems ? "

Of course, we don't expect any reply from these "leaders" - only stony ever deafening silence from the "annointed ones".

Based on news of increasing problems faced by them, we analyse and concluded they most probably could not be annointed by God because their actions and speech were not Christlike. In fact, we think they were shocking ! We suspect they worship MONEY, not the Holy Triune God.

God help us ! Really.

Anonymous said...

Annoy 29th 2011 8:51pm on SHOCKING BEHAVIOURS AS PASTORS. Are those the actual words quoted by SK seeking RM6million from any dying person? If they are & though its disgusting to hear him say that, its prompts me to say that I am not really surprised, for personally I had suspicions of his true character. Now that he had displayed for all to see, his unpleasant & unholy character is revealed.

As for "annointing", the only person that had ever being annointed by God is JESUS CHRIST. He is called the 'Annointed One". Other than that, no one had ever been annointed. People become pastors by their own choices, not been annointed or called by God as they always claimed. Many had the wrong perception on the meaning & interpretation of the word "annointing" in the Bible.

Anonymous said...

CC crisis has become a test case for Malaysian Christians.Just how can anyone justify that amount of money on a building? Has the church leadership gone insane? Just what is going on in their minds?

I agree with the writer who said that the only thing for us to do is bring greater awareness to the gullibles in Christendom.


I do not think this plan will end with CC.Other AOG Pastors are waiting in the shadows to emerge with their building plans at the right time.

All the time presurring the believers for more money.It seems we cant even die in peace these days without a money appeal from the pulpit.Leadership like this are hell bent and they dont care.So we have to stand up against these religious devils with their Bible verses.

Lets stand together on this.Just imagine- when CCC is completed the amount of money needed just to maintain it!!! SP and gand must be given an Award for leading the whole congregation into debt.Only the Banks will be laughing in the end.

Anonymous said...

Response to:-
Pastors of cc, we wish to ask you : "Who, in their right mind,
with Christian conviction, with strict adherence to the Bible, would dare to or desire to recommend to their families, relatives, friends, associates, acquaintances, etc to "visit" this church or attend its service - with its present satanic leadersdhip and ever spiralling problems ? "
...............................
We should refrain from calling any Christian satanic. But SP has definitely gone astray after Satan.He is a King Saul and an Eli in our midst- both backslidden and causing problems for other Christians. One committed suicide and the other met a horrible end.Praise God for this blog for it has exposed him for who he really is - a man gripped with a devilish vision.It is a pathetic state of affairs when a man of God can come to this level-he has gone spiritually deaf and thick skin.Even a Court case has not brought him to his senses.With the downfall in church finances lets see what other stunt will come out of the bag.

Anonymous said...

ARE WE LISTENING?
THE CULMINATION IS NEAR!
MORE EVENTS ARE UNFOLDING.
QUICKENING OF NATURAL DISASTERS SOON.

MORNING STAR

Anonymous said...

It is said that pastors and leaders in CC do not read the blog. Who says so?

However events shows otherwise. For two or was it three continuously weeks during collection time, they were asking for RM6 mil for CCC.
Then Anonymous Aug. 21 @ 11:25pm wrote:

"Rest assured that this asking for more money will be repeated every Sunday until October. Unless this comment is relayed to them because PG had forbidden them to read the blog. Your guess is as good as mine - it's a certainty that even if they do not read the blog, they can always get updates from others who are tasked to do so on the behalf."

During Sunday's service on Aug. 28, there was not a squeak about the desperately needed RM6 mil nor about progress payment.

Some time ago before the Building Fund Raising event at Sime darby Convention Centre, it was brought up in the blog that CC does not have the money to pay the members' advances. Then during the event on Sunday at the Sime Darby Convention Centre, Cc addressed this issue dead-on sayingn the church has money in the form of assets in the form of properties the church owned.

So, do leaders in CC read the log? I rest my case

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Aug.29, 8:51pm:

What can you expect Ps SK the Missions Director who is in a desperate position to find money and more money for CCC. In the second week of July, he had also asked the congregation to fulfill their Faith Promise pledges so that the church will have the money to pay the progress payment.

What happened to Deacon Ngeow's projection on funding the cost of CCC? Has he fallen flat on his nose just like Han?

In October, CC needs RM6 mil. As construction progresses, how about December and 2012? Will the money drop from somewhere? Or will CC be in heavy debts to satisfy one-man's vision. This man's vision will leave a legacy of a debt-ridden CC.

Anonymous said...

In hindsight - what a ridiculous way to spend the Raya holidays- praying against our neighbours. Fasting and Prayer was okay but what we prayed against was definitely ridiculous and the works of a misguided pastor.
.................................
Sir,whoever you are- thank you very much for the above comments. I am a Malay lady in a Chinese body, if you know what a I mean. I grew up in Kelantan and I love the Malay culture.I am now studying in KL. But I get the impression that the Pastor in KL does not like us intermingling with other races. To put it frankly,he does not even have 1 Malay friend because I asked him point blank.The same goes for many other AOG pastors. They seem to be locked up in their own way of thinking, and tend to pass this attitude to the flock.This is depressing to say the least.I miss my church in Kelantan and many malays visit our homes during Christmas.But the KL mentality seems to be different.

What is there to pray against them? Then why accept titles like Datuk and Tan Sri from Malays...??-those titles are given against the backdrop of the Malay adat.This is hypocritical to say the least.Even SP holds that title.

To all AOG pastors- I have this to say. You had your day and most of you are already in your 50's.Sooner or later you have to go the way of all the earth just like everyone else. Just please dont spread your racial attitude and your "seperti katak dibawah tempurung attitude" to others.Its so disgraceful for someone who carries a "Rev" title.

The Bible says- " For God so loved the world.. and in my understanding the love of God includes the Malays" God bless this Raya Season.

Thank You Christian Singh.Many in Kelantan read your writeup and rejoiced.

Anonymous said...

Not to worry. The leaders are still trying to squeeze as much as possible from worshippers. The slush fund (remember that how money collected were used and kept are never transparent over so many years), the deposits in many ministries, plus the mortgages on properties can be raised, all these mean it is not difficult for CC to raise the 6 millions.
Suddenly it will appear and praise to God for answered prayers, then the asking will start again for the next round of fund raising. This is how CC is functioning now. Don't be fooled. All is sandiwara lah.,

Anonymous said...

NOT SURPRISED AT ALL

Anon August 31, 2011 1:42 PM – “Its so disgraceful for someone who carries a "Rev" title.”

Not all pastors who carry the title of “Reverend” are as saintly as we think. Initially I hardly believed that highly bible educated evangelists such as PG, Cho Yonggi and Richard Roberts with “Rev.” title would be involved in scandals. These were the people I once admired.

But now I realized from reading this bog that if someone (whether he be an evangelist, pastor, preacher) so daringly usurps God’s name (Holy and Reverend is HIS Name – Ps 111:9 KJV), THEN ONE CAN EXPECT ANYTHING SCANDALOUS GOES with them.

These people may NOT be as saintly as they want us to believe.

Anonymous said...

SLY & WISHY WASHY CHARACTER,
NOT OUR LEADER

Ass pee himself in an earlier public announcement to the congregation reassured us that cc would not need to borrow any extra money from the banks. He further gave the good news that there need not be any bank loans, since cc had enough to pay for everything. Needless to say, it was "YOU FEEL GOOD NEWS" !

Wow, we really felt good and joyful ... ! At least most of us suckers did, (except for some more discerning cynics and skeptics among us).

However, WITHIN JUST WEEKS later, ... dark clouds of doom rolled in the picture perfect scenery so artistically, masterfully, expertly painted by ass pee.

That bleak fateful Sunday service, the spokesman appointed by ass pee, sk made the shocking news that the ccc mega project needed RM 6 MILLION BY OCTOBER !!!!!!! Panic buttons, sound the alarm !

One moment ass pee says this, next moment he says that. And this wishy washy characteristic is apparently a prominent feature of this socalled annointed leader, if we carefully examine his past, especially the numerous wasteful expensive projects.

Is ass pee crying "wolf, wolf, wolf" again ? And having a good laugh at our stupidity to fall for it, again, again, again, again and again, again and again ...

Distressingly, we are reminded of the stupid villagers, simpletons that they are, in the fairy tale, being repeatedly, heartlessly, suckered by the many diabolical plots so trickily hatched by such a mean unscrupulous conman.

Will we all allow such wrong doings within our community ? Will we allow such sins to be repeated ? Will we unthinkingly, robotlike, zombielike, continue to accept such a wishy washy leadership ?

If we do, we ask for it !

Turn off the tap. Do not donate to a mega project which is NOT even stated as a church, but instead as a convention centre. Therefore, perhaps eventually the relevant authorities may issue certificate of fitness for a convention centre, not a church !

If that happens, will the whole mega project be stuck, even though the complex was totally completed costing hundred of millions, and the congregation not allowed to worship within ?

What irony !

Perhaps eventually, the humongous complex mass of crumbling concrete, as an abandoned failed mega project, bear silent testimony. to the whole world, to the mass folly of listening to the false teachings of a proud but fallen cult leader.

Let's all get out of this bottomless pit called ccc, before too late.

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:
To put it frankly,he does not even have 1 Malay friend because I asked him point blank.The same goes for many other AOG pastors. They seem to be locked up in their own way of thinking, and tend to pass this attitude to the flock.
...................................
Dearest Kelantan lady- Greetings. Please be cautious when dealing with these AOG ministers.I even doubt TTG is going to print this.Your observation is correct- many of these AOG ministers have alienated themselves from other reasons for whatever reason.

Take my Pastor - for example. He has a way of running down other races very subtly.But can't really blame him for that- his background and training was limited to just one race.MAINLY

To me its okay if they want to live like that.But what is bothersome is the fact that they tend to make negative statements about other races from the pulpit.He usually says that this other race is lazy and hang on to power.Excuse me , Sir? You mean to say all AOG pastors are hardworking and THEY DONT HANG ON TO POWER?? Just notice the CC episode with its many lessons!!Just see how SP hangs on to power.The AOG is no different from the rest and should stop pretending.Its downright hypocritical.

Kelantan lady- God bless you and we are praying that you will find a church that you will feel at home.I am sure that you will learn many lessons while in KL. Once again Maam- God bless you and protect you from errant pastors and their religious crap.



FROM THE MARKETPLACE.

Anonymous said...

BRETHEREN AT CC- INTRODUCING TO YOU THE NEW 6 MILLION DOLLAR MAN..... REV. STEVEN KUM!!!!!!


clap..clap...clap...clap...( loud drum music in the background)

Chorus

6 million dollar man...

6 million dollar man...

6 million dollar man...

before you die please give me

6 million dollar man...

Yeah... Yeah... Yeah./...

FULL CC MUSIC IN THE BACKGROUND.

(how pathetic can you get??)

Anonymous said...

I am a Calvarite and just returned from oversea and am retiring this year.I have lost contact with the affairs at CC. I got a shock when someone referred me to this blog.What has happened?Is all this true??

SHOCKED !! NOT SIOKED AT ALL!!!

Anonymous said...

For many of us, we can never earn the 6 Million Ringgit in our life time- yet this backslidden jokers are requesting it like we have a money printing machine at home. They have become conniving, devilish and have become liars of sorts.God have mercy on us all.The strain is showing on their faces.

Anonymous said...

IT'S A WELL KNOWN FACT THAT HALF OF THE AOG MINISTERS HAVE A RACIST MINDSET.. AND THEY ARE BETTER OFF HANDLING THEIR OWN KIND.BUT ITS BETTER TO LEAVE IT AS IT IS.. AFTER ALL THEY ARE NOT ROBBERS OR THIEVES BUT MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL.JUST LET IT BE.

Anonymous said...

To: Anon August 31, 2011 1:42 PM – “Its so disgraceful for someone who carries a "Rev" title.”

Please let me know where you found out that Dr Yoggi Cho is involved in scandal. If you cannot substantiate your source, please refrain from mentioning him.

Anonymous said...

Kelantan lady- Once again Maam- God bless you and protect you from errant pastors and their religious crap.
.................................I I felt saddened by the above remarks.Contrary to what is published in the press- there is much racial and religious tolerance in Kelantan.But KL is the problem and that includes the AOG leadership. It is not only true that AOG Pastors hardly intermingle with Malays - most of the Christians under their influence also have the same spirit of alienation.This has alwas been and is regrettable. Charles Spurgeon-"Know thy disease,Know thy cure"

But this blog is bringing an awareness about the weaknesses in the system and hopefully the next generation of AOG pastors will not churn out the same narrow minded attitude " my race is better than your race" mentality as fitly described by the Kelantan lady "seperti katak dibawak tempurung".

I hold a job in the secular world and many of my colleagues are Chinese,Indian and Malays.We intermingle freely and during Raya in a Malay home we even talked about the DUMC episode over the kenduri table.Nobody accused anyone and nobody defended anyone. But put an AOG Pastor there and he will get defensive and start talking about human rights and their rights stated in the Constitution. Such is their temperament and stupidity.

When we talk like that people's hearts remain closed to the gospel.Incidentally we also discussed Gaddafi's lifestyle and also about CCC leadership.

Just imagine what is happening at CC right now- asking RM6 million as though it is small money.Earlier they said that they had enough money- so what happened now?? Why can't they dig into their own coffers? SP in most likelihood ia a millionaire.Why can't he empty out his own bank account instead of using SK and RY do to his begging for him?? Why? Are there many rich people in the congregation right now at CC? If there are, they have already outgrown their stupidity by now.

A comment about SP over the kenduri table- " Takkan pas-TORR SP itu orang miskin...mesti ada harta benda yang disembunyikan ... macam Gaddafi dan Mubarak...semua syaitan ini mengunnakan ugama untuk merompakkan dari orang ....

God lead us from out ourselves and into YOU!!

Fr CT @ September 2, 2011 12:45 PM

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous Sep. 2, 8:19pm.

Some time back, SK had made a remark from the pulpit that he often goes into wikipedia as it it very informative on a very wide range of subjects. Hence you can do so, too. Type in the following caption in Google and then click search to read more about David Yonggi Cho:

(1) david yonggi cho scandal wikipedia:

(2) scuffles at yonggi cho church;

(3) David Cho: the retired pastor who won't quit.

On the subject of sandals, read about the controversies of Richard Roberts who will be a guest speaker at CC in October:

type: richard roberts scandal and then click search.

Anonymous said...

Please let me know where you found out that Dr Yoggi Cho is involved in scandal. If you cannot substantiate your source, please refrain from mentioning him.
..................................
RECOMMENDED ReADING FOR ABOVE WRITER

CHONGGI YO- SCANDALS(just google lah)

If you cant belive the above , neither should you believe everthing said against the Goverment in Google

OSTRICH RESTAURANT

Anonymous said...

A comment about SP over the kenduri table- " Takkan pas-TORR SP itu orang miskin...mesti ada harta benda yang disembunyikan ... macam Gaddafi dan Mubarak...semua syaitan ini mengunnakan ugama untuk merompakkan dari orang ....
.....................................
Will any of SP's die hard followers dispute the above comment?? "Mesti ada harta benda yang di sembunyikan'???

Dont be a "orang bodoh"-support anyone just for the sake of your rice bowl.

SP and gang- learn a lesson from your friend,Dr.Chonggi and the leadership crisis in the Arab world. Its plain clear now- CC is all about $$$ and a very bodoh project. You should have never axed the 400.May all AOG quack pastors learn a lesson from this incident.You just dont excommunicate 400 and go about smiling and preaching about how Jesus loves us- its plain hollow and bullshit!!! You think therst of us are stupid??

Tak Tahu Malu!!!

Anonymous said...

...Its rather hypocritical to be demanding good governance from the Government when there is so much filth within the AOG system itself.
.................................

My Pastor preached..." for the first time the voting power is in the Christians hands..."

He is a well meaning man- but I am afraid we are not yet ready to handle real political power. Just look at th AOG system.400 booted out? If that happens in a political party, you can imagine the legal consequences.But the power is concentrated in SP and his sidekicks- and so it happens. Can you imagine SP yielding political power in this country?

I am sure his next title would be Yang Amat Berbahagia Tan Sri. Datuk. Dr. Reverend Emeritius Prince Guneratnam.

How stupid can the AOG system get??? CC people .. stand firm and show this backslidden DR.REV. the door right now or give him the boots!!!CC belongs to the worshippers and Christ - and it is no this personal family property.

Anonymous said...

To Anoy. 2nd Sept.,8:19pm. David Yonggi Cho is another AOG wolf in sheeps clothing. You should read his book, entitled 4th Dimension and realised his teachings are a mixture of some biblical truth with occult/withcraft techniques and New Age practises of positive thinking, visualisation which is a mind-over-matter thing. These are all deviations from what the Bible teaches us. In Galatians 1:8, Paul warns "If we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned".

If I am not mistaken, I had come across from the CC Calvary News Magazine that CC Pastors & some church members who visited the CCC construction site had uttered a "visualisation prayer", seemingly for CCC to come into being. This doctrine is actually "a mind-over-matter" thing, which is unbiblical.

Anonymous said...

ONE-MAN PASTOR SYSTEM

Where a church operates on a man-made one-man pastor system, it is TOTALLY ANTI-BIBLICAL. I have intentionally used the word ANTI-BIBLICAL” instead of the word “unbiblical”.

Anti-biblical is a stronger word to describe a man-made system that is AGAINST THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, thus it becomes ANTI-CHRIST, whereas non-biblical simply means it is NOT found in the bible.

If we study the Scriptures carefully (especially the New Testament churches in Acts and the Epistles), a church that practices New Testament Christianity teachings and practices is GOVERNED BY A BODY OF ELDERS (not by the pastor or deacons).

I am glad to have left AOG influence and attend a church run by a body of elders with the pastor’s role as a church minister.

Anonymous said...

During today's Sunday service, PG was telling a story of how a rich man walked past many big mansions in Heaven

The final line was this man had only a small hut because he did not give much when he was on earth. The moral of PG's story is again give, give and give so that you will harvest the reward when you go! When will they ever learn to cease drumming into the congregation "give, give and give".

August collection was RM256,565 which is pathetic. It is only 54.7% of RM469,000 which had been pledge.

SK will now grow more white hair or lose more hair.

Anonymous said...

A FALSE GOSPEL

Anon September 4, 2011 2:43 PM – “During today's Sunday service, PG was telling a story of how a rich man walked past many big mansions in Heaven”

It is a grandfather’s story concocted by PG, as it is not even a parable from the Bible.

As you have rightly put it, the story was intended to coax congregation to give, give and give so that they can earn a mansion in heaven. If that is the case, I pity the Christians in those poor countries like Nigeria and Somalia as they depend on subsistence living and they will be living in huts in heaven.

What FALSE TEACHING is PG embarking on, as though the Gospel exhorts believers to look forward to having big mansions in heaven just by giving money. Our heavenly reward is SALVATION OF THE SOUL not having big bungalows in heaven.

It is this type of false teachings that makes us able to see PG is propagating A FALSE GOSPEL. Satan appears as an angel of light with a mixed bag of biblical teachings and false teachings and many times you can see his “tail”.

Readers, BEWARE OF FALSE GOSPEL. Do not be any part of it. It will cost you to lose your salvation.

Anonymous said...

On Sep. 04 morning service, PG was hardselling the update on CCC that will be announce during the meey on Friday.

This will a be a sugar-coated pill. Rrest assured that the information given out will be minimum but will leave many questions unanswered. Then the exhortation for money and more money. This is the common practice in CC. First the "feel good" announcement and the superlative progress of CCC, then give, give and give.

Bear in mind SK's RM6 mil dollar man. I, for one, will avoid this coming Friday's meet.

Anonymous said...

Bring Greater Awareness (BGA) will not only saves the congregation from deception that hurt them financially, but will also
expose PG's unrighteous acts to the public. This will in turn, let the banks know that it is very risky to lend money to CC for PG's greedy vision. If TTG is distributing leaflets of BGA, i will join.
What is most noble and right to do now is not giving money, money, money as preached by PG; but really to work to BGA that will eventually restore CC to the right path. If you never had a chance to serve in church or really do anything for the Lord, the least that you should not neglect is tell others the danger in PG and bring greater awareness.

TOTT said...

Anonymous at 11.49pm Sep 4, 2011 said "Bring Greater Awareness (BGA) will not only saves the congregation from deception that hurt them financially, but will also expose PG's unrighteous acts to the public........."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Well said, except for the bit on "If TTG is distributing leaflets of BGA, I will join."

I understand that the TTG Core Group has done whatever that God had impressed on their hearts to do. You SHOULD NOT & DO NOT have to wait for them to distribute leaflets. The best "leaflets" is what you are reading in Calvary Today, just email your friends (especially CC members & worshippers who are still in the dark & are still worshipping at CC oblivious of what PG, BOD & APs have been & are still doing) to read the Blog at www.calvarytoday.blogspot.com or at www.calvarytoday2.blogspot.com

Or you could print or forward relevant Post(s)/Article(s) from the Blog for your friends to read, now that would really BRING GREATER AWARENESS (BGA) to them.

Since the TTG Core Group has always held that the Battle to restore Truth, Transparency & Good Godly Governance (TTG) back to CC is not theirs BUT the LORD's so each of us MUST do our bit whenever we feel moved by the Holy Spirit to do so.

So what are you waiting for, JUST DO IT !!!

Let there be GREATER AWARENESS amongst all Believers within CC, as well as outside CC. Amen !!!

Anonymous said...

Excuse me,Sir? You mean to say all AOG pastors are hardworking and THEY DONT HANG ON TO POWER?? Just notice the CC episode with its many lessons!!Just see how SP hangs on
..................................
My Pastor used to be a hopeless teh tarik person.( after this blog surfaced-I suspect he has gone into hiding) If he is not in office- we just know where he is.All his "khaki's " are also the same- his fellow comrades talking on subjects like nuclear proliferation and the global economy.Fact is, most of them did not even finish their SPM.Each time this question arises,he avoids it tactfully.One pastor talks like an expert especially when the youth are around.Maybe they should start their own tea stalls and spend all their time ,instead of wasting time like this and sqeezing a fat paycheck at the end of the day.To put it bluntly, 50% of the talk is nothing but gossip.

PASTOR BUTA GAJI

Anonymous said...

Many of the church folks are really stupid. They know that there is going to be a money talk-no matter what topic it is- the end of it all will be about money- The latest ridiculous story about the rich man in heaven.

Frankly- I have heard enough of this bullshit.These days I usually leave my wallet at home before I go to service at CC.The most I can afford to give is RM10/.

Never mind If I dont get a mansion in heaven.As long s my soul is not cast into hell- that is sufficient for me.For me - a modest home will be adequate.

SP is behaving stupid these days with this comedy about CCC.In one sense those who were axed are blessed. Now they dont have to contribute to this mega building of a deluded preacher with his fantasy.

He could have done so much for the poor and needy in our midst.Instead this Emeritius,wants to build a palace. Its not about God- its his own ego at work.

And there is a lot of money appeak and begging these days at CCC.SK and RY seems to be the most professional beggars now. Real AOG material ah?

Anonymous said...

Would like to ask: If this method is wrong where one man leads the congregation- then which is the right way? if you say have a board and the pastor stays out of the money. then how does the pastor take a step of faith and lead.? for instance just say God says to the pastor step out in faith and place a downpayment for a buidling, or step out in faith and give 80% of the church finances to missions this year - now answer me if the board doesnt see eye to eye as the pastor. so they say no pastor no downpayment we the people want to buy another place and they say no pastor 80% is too much for missions , we the people decided 40% to missions is sufficient...in my opinion the board would have missed God in both places. in these senarios if the word to the pastor was right. so how can we solve this.


i cite the lutheran church in pj - does anybody know how they fought to sell the land and how some fought to keep it...wow that will be another blog. ha ha...what happens if it was not God will to sell the land to developers and the pastor said so and the board said oi we are selling. then church split some stay some go to sunway so on and so forth.

educate me.....

Anonymous said...

What is most noble and right to do now is not giving money,money, money as preached by PG..
..............................
The above statement is just so true. Gone are the glorious days of CC.But on hindsight- CC was always an inward looking church. Whichever evangelist came to town- we were never encouraged to go. Of course, it has always been about money but we were just too stupid not to discern it.

SP's woolfish ways only came to light when he had the audacity to axe the 400.Why- were they guilty of any immorality? Sad to mention this-even when Pam had personal problems back then- the congregation was forgiving and gracious.But this family have forgotten where they had come from and power has gone to their heads.

Everthing is mysterious these days at CC.SK and RY are behaving like clowns- its a Pentecostal circus at its worst.

Even when the new CCC is finished at great cost- it will not be a free church but a debt ridden one.The utter stupidity of Christians- I can imagine the devil sitting in the shadows at laughing at us!!!

Anonymous said...

But put an AOG Pastor there and he will get defensive and start talking about human rights and their rights stated in the Constitution. Such is their temperament and stupidity.
.................................
A RESPONSE

Yeah- its always been about our rights. What about the other races? Dont they have rights too??? Take the orang Asli- for example.. largely ignored until today. True- the church may make once a year mission trip to trim their hair and what not- and then spalsh these photographs all over the notice board.And so we are described as a missionay church.

All these are a hogwash.The Malaysian church is still far from maturity as the CC crisis is demonstrating.Where in the world will you find 400 suspended? Only here in Malaysia- because here in Malaysia-- semua pun boleh!!!

" .. and the Goverment shall be upon His shoulders..." Isaiah

Anonymous said...

I miss CC but there is no way I am returning there right now. I want the Word being preached without any money elements in it.Its pathetic to see how SP and leadership have turned out to be.The whole axing was totally unnecessary and the CCC is I believe, birthed from his own heart.The whole AOG stinks and there is not a man in the gap to speak.I think the curtains coming down slowly....but surely.


The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they will grind so surely.- --The English Judiciary--

Anonymous said...

To all CC people, SP is on the wrong track- don't fall for his crap!!! He is not what he used to be-- those days he was really anointed...today he is fallen...the Masters Words... You shall know a tree by its fruits...men don't gather grapes from thistles....

Anonymous said...

I refer to the comment by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at Aug 22, 2011 at 4.49 pm : the lady who was dating someone from another denomination.

I am facing that problem now. I come from another denomination.I met an upbeat and interesting man in a social setting some time ago. All was well until he revealed that he is a member of CC and he has been told by SP & SP2 that i am not good for him as i am from another church. Can you believe this outrage?

I have tried to make him see the real picture that the pastors are just creating their own rules and that their wicked intentions are based on financial gains to be made from him. They do not care about him.

As he is new to christianity itself this has caused more confusion to him. Where do pastors get the idea that gthey have a right to choose one's lifemate.

Shame on you SP & SP2 and your associates, for trying to play matchmaker. Leave people to be free to live their own lives and do what you are meant to do : preach the word of God correctly. And if you can't, leave CC before you cause more damage and division than you already have.

Where is your honour and pride? Though you are told time and again to quit your circus, you still carry on as if nothing is happening around you.

I tell you solemnly: pride goes before a fall, and yes the fall of the might Gs is coming very soon.

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at September 6, 2011 12:31 AM

Anonymous said...

Where is your honour and pride? Though you are told time and again to quit your circus, you still carry on as if nothing is happening around you.
...............................
Where else can they go?And what else can they do? SP and Circus Crew are behaving like thick skinned political leaders in the ME-although the citizens throw shoes at them- they can cope with it... after all where else can they fleece the people for easy money? Its pretty easy in church for them. Just dress nicely and preach- take people on a guilt trip- just say "God told me to build this and that..." and it does wonders. Like RY's sermon about Noah - obey God now and ask why later. Ask why later?? You mean to say CC leadership is in the same shoes as Noah?? What a ridiculous and pathetic interpretation. Jokers!! And now its mansions in heaven? Ohh Brother!!!

The CC Circus is taking us for a ride... but they are finding it increasingly difficult because the Christian is asking for transparency and accountability. And it is irritating for them.... because they are not used to being asked questions.

Where is their honour and pride? Are we asuming that they have any of of it left? If they are honourable people- they would have paved the way for a new leadership.. but as it is....it is a bread and butter issue for them.In the secular world who in their right mind would employ them.. with their religious title and certificates?

You see... like Gadaffi and Mubarak... you cant shoo away these people by words or shoes or Court cases...but we can quietly reisist them.. and frustrate them. Its about money now at CC. TOTT .. whoever said it .. is absolutely right.

Using the Names of God for begging...absolutely shameful. Absoluetly...& maybe this time the shoe of God will be heading your direction.....very soon!!Lying Pastors!!!(A new thing on the Malaysian church scene)

OSTRICH RESTAURANT

Anonymous said...

Sad to mention this-even when Pam had personal problems back then- the congregation was forgiving and gracious.But this family have forgotten where they had come from and power has gone to their heads.
...................................
Yes, when it comes to other people's shortcomings,its whispered and talked about forever and its held against them. But when it comes to the pastors own filth.. everything is hush hush. "Don't touch Gods anointed"

Its all about money and power--Lah... Soh Chai!!! Can't you see this?

Anonymous said...

!!Lying Pastors!!!(A new thing on the Malaysian church scene)
..................................
Lying Pastors are not new on the church scene- they have always been there and are as old as the hills.Its just that they not been exposed before because they have been hiding behind pulpits nd Rev. Titles.But this blog is doing wonders.Many of us here in the office follow this blog closely.. although we hardly contribute.We work in a big corporation and there are many Christians from different churches.

Just to comment on someone who was asking a question about God speaking to a pastor and the Board disagreeing. I think he has just answered his own question. On important issues affecting the church- it is important that the church be "of one accord"

You may say "God speaking to the pastor..." Almost very pastor says the same crap these days. Just look at SP. He has been telling over 2 decades about God speaking to him about land and showing him a piece of property at Damansara.All of us morons believed it excitedly at that time.But then SP changed his mind and then God showed him another property. The question is " Where did the first voice come from?" OR " Who was that speaking?"

It is not safe for one man making all the important church decisions. After all we are not living in the days of Abraham, Moses or Joshua. So to be quoting from them and trying to apply it directly to the modern Christian is somewhat foolish.

Bye Folks - and have a great week.We love you all!!

Anonymous said...

THE CRUCIAL TIMES NOW BE
EVEN HERE THIS REGION WILL BE
STRONGER RITCHER SCALES WILL BE
SOON WORLDWIDE NATURAL DISASTERS BE.

THE MORNING STAR

Anonymous said...

"Where else can they go? What else can they do?" at Sep. 6. 12:38pm.

Anonymous had hit the nail on the head. If PG and PG2 have any pride and honour, both of them would have retired gracefully when exposures of their wrongdoings surfaced. But no! Both of them are technically squattins at CC because their continued appointment were not endorsed by the members. Forget whatever credibility the Deacons have, the Deacons are all Yes-men and licking PG's hand. Has any Deacons ever voiced their opinions except Dr. Lum and Dr. Ngah.

It is the G's dynasty in CC. It is collapsing - Pam had abandoned ship and CL looks lost (often he sits behind the musicians), the Creative Director song lead only once a month! PG is still pursuing his vision to build a mega church which will cause CC to be in very heavy debts. Really shameful to clinging on for dear life.

Ap's PO, TO and SK have all passed the retirement age according to the Staff handbook. Was any of these AP's continued service ever been brought to the attention of the members. No! and they survival is dependent on the members. Even if any Ap's have secular qualifications, they will not be able to find jobs in the secular world cos they never practiced what they had been trained for except in church. As had been mentioned - a M.D. (Medical doctor) can become a rev., but a rev. cannot become a M.D. RY is about fifty and has a few more years to go but he is brown-nosing PG.

Anonymous said...

The Star on Aug. 23 reported that Ken Yeang, a well-known architect, was selected to receive the prestigious Merdeka Awards this year.
Ken Yeang is a freemason who is the architect and designer of CCC.

Guynes in an open letter condoned freemasonry. PG in his quest for leaving a legacy (CCC) has also condoned freemasonry for appointing a freemason architect. The APs are equally guilty, too as they are fervently asking for money to build a freemason building.

The British Methodist Church condemned Masonry at its General Assembly in 1985. The report concluded with these word: "There is a great danger the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself compromising his Christian beliefs or his allegiance to Christ, perhaps without realizing what he is doing."

At the cornerstone laying event on Oct. 2011, those attending the combined service will see the awesome design of a well-known architect. However the fact that he is a mason cannot be denied.

Anonymous said...

PG, SK & RY had all twisted, altered, changes & added into the completed Word of God who warned against anyone tempering with His Scriptures. Satan comes to "rob, steal & kill". In what CC pastors are doing, they are actually "robbing & stealing" members money by preaching a false gospel to entice them to give them their money.

Anonymous said...

Ong Sek Leang (General Superintendent, AG Malaysia) will be the speaker at the CCC cornerstone laying ceremony. Does he not know that CCC is designed by a freemason architect. Or is he pretending not to know. If that is the case, he is guilty of condoning freemasonry, too.

This is clearly a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." Ong Sek Leang is the Chairman of the Host committee for the PWC 2013 conference to be held in Kuala Lumpur at CCC by PG. If one expects AG malaysia to take action against PG. This will remain a dream only.

If one throws a stone at a gathering of pastors, it will probably hit a pastor with a rev to his name. That's how common "rev's" are.

And now "emeritus" is becoming common, too. Richard Roberts, the son of Oral Roberts who is the founder of Oral Roberts University had to resign as President of ORU in the midst of a scandal. Then he was given the title President Emeritus of ORU. There are reports of David Yonggi Cho being involved in scandals. He is the Senior Pastor Emeritus of Yoido. At home, we have General Superintendent Emeritus, AG Malaysia. That hat is worn by PG. BTW PG will heap accolades at Richard Roberts or ORU because he is on the Board of References. Now you know why Richard is invited here for three days.

Anonymous said...

COMMENT ON:--
...and he has been told by SP & SP2 that i am not good for him as i am from another church.
.................................
Just to be fair about comments on Pastors, I dont think the pastors, whereever they are, would have said such a thing. They are now involved in a mindless project and I dont think they have the time for issues like this. Your boyfriend told you the above statement? Maybe you should double check with him. In my experience,some Christians, when the relationship gets serious- they develop cold feet. And they usually give some excuse-mother,father, finances, Bible verses,church disagreeing... before they "cabut".

I am sure you will understand that the purpose of this blog is to bring greater awareness in terms of high handed leadership- especially at CC and the AOG system at large.

On a personal level,talk to your guy and ask him for details. If he becomes evasive- you have your questions answered.

God bless you lady and may God above send a really compatible guy for you.The Malays have a saying " Jodoh ditangan Tuhan". And that is absolutely true.Because it is one of the biggest decision a Christian will take during our brief season here on earth.

MARKETPLACE CHRISTIANS

ps. You mentioned that you met "him some time ago".Maybe you should get to know him a bit better before popping the all time important question. All the best for you,our dearest lady.From all of us here.

Anonymous said...

No wonder PG is so confident that CCC will be built. He has roped in the GS or HEAD of the AOG council to stand by him. Smart move. Now even Ong Sek Leang will make sure that CCC is completed or he will have NO FACE too.

Heard that the Prominent Business who left Calvary is now attending Ong Sek Leang's church. So PG can't get him to give to CCC but now PG will still get him to give through Ong Sek Leang. Ong will use his Pastor's Power over the businessman and get him to support the CCC because Ong, his pastor is the speaker and he would not want his beloved pastor to loose face. Wonderful plan. Who would have thought of it?

Who knows, now with the GS of AOG as speaker, all the powers and resources of the AOG will be mustered to support the CCC.

You guys who are still attending an AOG church, beware!!!

You will be told to pray against the TTG effort, the TTG people and Calvary Today blog. Ask God to give you discernment before you join them to pray such prayers.

You will be told to give in support of an AOG project. They may even call it For Missions. Check first what it is really for. You may have unwittingly given to FEED PG and now GS Ong's spiritual pride, the CCC.

Take care of yourself and your wallets/purses, EPF money, your wills (remember RM6 million dying gift), your lunch money, your children' s education fund...........in short ALL YOUR MONEY.

Anonymous said...

You will be told to pray against the TTG effort, the TTG people and Calvary Today blog. Ask God to give you discernment before you join them to pray such prayers.
................................
I attend an AOG church. My Rev.Pastor is a typical AOG Pastor - very much a system man. The system is always right and the Christian should just submit to it.

He sometimes preaches against TTG outright saying that TTG standS for nonsense. His famous statement from the pulpit "IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I AM SAYING..THEN JUST LEAVE AND FIND YOURSELF ANOTHER CHURCH"

Further at the tea stalls he mentions TTG is the tool of the devil... and all "right minded christians must pray against it".

True,there is some shouting and yelling against TTG in our prayer meetings but I think such behaviour is downright stupid and "siau-siau" OR "Puah Siau"

I tell you-- this man has something to hide. He is fidgety these days and gets nervous when anyone mentions that they have visited this blog.He spends more time with the church youth(mostly ladies) than with others.My wife says something is amiss or something has already gone amiss.

But he seems to have some adversaries in the AOG system too... and bad mouths them when he gets the chance.

I tell this Rev. needs to get back into the secular world and get himself another job for the time being. Behaving like a "Tai Koh" in church and squeezing a salary seems like the perfect career.And the AOG system is just so full of these mysterious power crazy characters.

RISEN FROM SLUMBER

Anonymous said...

From the fund raising events recorded in the bible for the tabernacle and temple of God in Jerusalem, the people gave a one time offering in response to the building efforts. The collections far surpass all expectations. What had happened in CCC is quite unprecedented. prolonged call to contribute with ever increasing expenditure budget. It seems that the CCC leadership conveniently ignore these biblical precedence with respect to God's building. Perhaps here lies the problems with CCC. God given vision or PG's vision. ?

Anonymous said...

How can these CC pastors & Guynes compromised their faith and accept freemasonry whose history is one of evil & satanic. No wonder this freemason architect designed CCC to resemble a cobra's head. Any right thinking christian will see this to be wrong and against the Will of God. God who never mixes His truth with error and the appointment of a freemason architect is proof that God never spokened or called for the building of CCC. The pastors of CC who misuses God's name had lied.

Anonymous said...

You think it is coincident that the Head of AOG is chairman of WPC? You think it is coincident that SK is now in charge of mission?
Noop. PG is cunning and he is using some sort of indirect bribery by giving the cream and cakes to these people to shut their mouth. The fact that they are easily enchanted, show that they have little integrity and may even boneless. Just a little bread transformed from stone, and they failed the test of integrity.

Anonymous said...

Its unthinkable & unbelievable that CC pastors are able to do anything even going against the Word of God without any conviction in their hearts as long as it serve their personal interests and purpose in particularly CCC. Where do they come from, are they "outer space aliens"?

FALSE PROPHETS.

Anonymous said...

I attend an AOG church. My Rev.Pastor is a typical AOG Pastor - very much a system man. The system is always right and the Christian should just submit to it.
..............................
You should ask him who he is submitted to? Directly to God? These jokers need to sober up and rethink the pastoral ministry in a deeper way.Right now ,the AOG pastoral ministry stinks.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Sep. 7, 2:25pm said:

You will be told to pray against the TTG effort, the TTG people and Calvary Today blog.

Further at the tea stalls he mentions TTG is the tool of the devil...and all "right-minded christians must pray against it".

This rev. Pastor is making absurd statements from the pulpit and on the strength of his title rev. Guess this title must be an honourary given one. Arrogance at its best.

Why are some pastors out there making such disparaging remarks against TTG and CT?

Instead of wild criticisms, these pastors and others of the same thought should sit back (with legs on the table emulating PG) and ponder of why Calvary Today blog was born.

A group of concerned members at CC resorted to such action because they were not successful in getting the arrogant and recalcitrant PG to the roundtable. All their attempts and a number of attempts by other concerned christians failed. However PG has the audacity to portray that his door is always open to discussions. He fell and landed on his face when the newspaper STAR ran an article on the crisis.

These pastors making the wild criticisms surely are unhappy that CT has also attracted comments from christians outside CC regarding the misbehaviour and unethical actions of their pastors. The Chinese has a description of such bebaviour "see choi san" - meaning "shit on the body". They are afraid that their skeletons in the cupboard will come out in the open. Truth hurts, right?

People in many parts of the world are crying out for justice, transparency and accountability and for change. And it's happening. But in CC and even christian bodies that are "supposedly" to safeguard these principals are still living in a coconut shell or "katak di bawah tempurong". Or rather these people do not want to act against their brethren pastor.

PG has been elected as Head of the PWF in 2011 and he being a proud and glory seeking man had committed to hold the PWF 2013 in CCC. Ong Sek Leang GS AG Malaysia is assisting PG as the Chairman of the Host Committee. Ong is playing his cards right to seek glory in the world stage and his job enables him to communicate with those in high hierarchy in Christian organizations. No need to elaborate further, do I?

Anonymous said...

Yahlor. These pastors hide behind their rev titles and make remarks/comments disparagingly.

They behave like authoritarians with disregard for a changing world. Who do they think they are? Hitler or Chairman Mao!

And whatever they say from the pulpit, they expect the congregation to follow blindly without questions. This rot had started in CC - PG siad he got an impromptu message to collect for CCC, SK hoping to receive RM6 mil from a dying man and RY and his twisted interpretation of Noah.

I am reminded of what my chemistry teacher used to say even though it happened 40 years ago. He comes to class smelling of alcohol or nicotine. He says "Do what I tell you and not what I do." Has any pastors in CC taken a pay-cut voluntarily or downgrade their houses to give sacrificially to CCC. a big "No". Yet every Sunday and other occasions, they will always exhort the congregation to give, give and give referring to bible verses. Walk the talk, man.

Anonymous said...

Mati gajah tiada dapat belalai,
Mati harimau tiada dapat belang nya.

Translation
When the elephant dies its trunk goes missing,

When the tiger dies, its skin goes missing.

Meaning

Even the dead are not left in peace.

Misdeeds often go undiscovered.

...................................That may be true but our Book says " Beware your sins will find you out."

There are more things that will come out of SP' bag real soon.Maybe there are lots of it in the closet too.

MALAYSIA OFF- LINE said...

Why are some pastors out there making such disparaging remarks against TTG and CT?
........................................

Because TTG has become a beacon of light in Christendom.The light is exposing their personal filth and it is upsetting them. So called Reverends. There is no thing in the whole Bible.Its a thing of the religious system.This whole AOG crap stinks.

All Cristian's should welcome this blog.Don't be like an ostrich that buries its head in the sand at the time of danger- it will land up on the dinner table.AND THE DINERS WILL DIG IN WITH THEIR FORKS AND KNIVES.

OSTRICH RESTAURANT

Let the light continue to shine ..TTG- we may be few ...but a little light can dispel an enormous amount of darkness.Lets show these AOG wolves in our midst that we will not be taken for a ride anymore.

Anonymous said...

SUNDAY SERVICE
Christians don't read the bloggers... they read their Bibles... Amen??

Pastor: Amen? I cant hear you!! Say it louder.. AMEN??

God does not speak through bloggers but through the Pastors- God appointed leaders in the church!!AMEN?? AMEN??

God did not hear that either - now shout louder AMEN?? AMEN??

(A church elder's wife shouts AMEN loudly but the youth are strangely quiet)

There was 1 frustrated pink faced AOG pastor behind the pulpit last Sunday!!!
..................................
I TELL YOU THE WHOLE THING IS PURE 100% AOG BULLSHIT!!!

Anonymous said...

TAHNIAH UNTUK PASTOR SP & GENG 6 JUTA RINGGIT

Pada suatu masa dulu,kami tak cukup makan Nasi.
Tetapi sekarang kita mampu Kenduri.
Dahulu kita boleh dengar suara Tuhan
Sekarang - hanya dengar Hasutan Syaitan!!

Dahulu boleh sembah Tuhan digereja kecil,
Impian CCC baharu menuju kelangit
Kita mesti bangkitkan bangunan ini
Walau pun duit sudah sedikit.

Tak- mengapa- minta sedekah
Otak dah jadi seperti kaldai!!!
SP dan geng- Tak Tahu Malu..
dan akhirNya.........
AKAN MAKAN NAJIS SENDIRI!!!

SALAM SEJAHTERA

I mean no disrespect- but the truth has to be told.

Anonymous said...

SUNDAY SERVICE
Christians don't read the bloggers... they read their Bibles... Amen??

...............................
HA...HA...HEEE....HEEEE...ANOTHER AOG JOKER REV.!!!

Anonymous said...

And whatever they say from the pulpit,they expect the congregation to follow blindly without questions.
...............................
BECAUSE IN THEIR MINDS,THEY ARE "THE MAN" IN THE CHURCH.MY CHURCH IS A REAL CRAFTY SORT OF PERSON.THE CHINESE SAY THE FACE SAYS IT ALL.

Anonymous said...

Grace & Peace to all worshippers at Calvary Church.May our worship be a blessed time of our spirits reaching out to God above and Christ in our midst.

Rememeber - do not be presurred in giving sacrificially.Take care that all your family needs are met.

Whoever said "Give until it hurts" ...let is start with himself first.

SP and AP's at CC- please downgrade your own lifestyle first before asking others to do so.And forget about enquiring "...money that you have access to." I ain't doing any such thing.

This whole drama is revaling that many of these AOG are quacks and phonies. It seems to be all about money, money and more money.There will be no and to it.


Let the revealing light continue to shine ...let it continue.

Anonymous said...

You should ask him who he is submitted to? Directly to God?
.................................
YES , A YOUTH DID ONCE ASK THE PASTOR AND HE SAID " I ONLY SUBMIT TO GOD."

THAT STATEMENT SOUNDED FANTASTIC THEN- BUT LATELY I HAVE BEEN SMILING TO MYSELF EVERY TIME I REMEMBER THOSE WORDS.

Anonymous said...

WHAT ALOT OF BULL !

Years ago, PG2 helped PG by spinning a web of complex lies, skolfully and intricately woven over the years, by announcing to the cc congregation that "my husband is a very shy person".

You must be joking, PG2 !

Look at PG now -so arrogant and selfish.

Anonymous said...

"my husband is a very shy person", so said PG2.

I am so tickled by this remark.

Give the Senior assoc pastor a chance, will you?

She meant that PG was very shy when they were in Bible Institute Malaya lah.

Btw how many churches have a distinction between assoc pastors and a senior assoc pastor? If not mistaken, she became a senior assoc pastor when she was given an honourary title by you guess who - an American theology university.

Anonymous said...

"my husband is a very shy person".
................................
It may be true hat SP USED TO BE a shy person. But definitely he has overcome that handicap( if there ever was) over the years.

The things he has ben doing lately does not show that he is a shy person.But I do know that he is not the interacting type.

But after axing 400( which is a very bold step and stupid,too)and asking the wife to say that he is a shy person is somewhat ridiculous.They are just trying to throw dust into our eyes.

Let's not be hoodwinked at what CC's leadership says- Let's look what he has done..it is self explanatory.Politicians always explained why they had to do what they did- the latest being Sarawakians losing their native land to a gigantic dam building project.

Even the courts explained it away very well why they had come to that decision. Why did they not allot the land that is near the city, near the rich mans area??

Of course, those living in longhouses are easy prey and so we keep on trampling on them and their voice of grievance is never heard.The Chinese say " Heaven has eyes."

The whole project is going to line somebody's pockets- if the truth be told.

Which makes this blog TTG all the more relevant and important.Because the same thing is happening in church. This act of delisting 400 is the work of a crafty politician and this spirit has reared its ugly head in church.

No doubt other AOG pastors are quietly following these events. ( As far as i know almost all AOG Reverends have their very expensive building plans) .Even a 1st year BCM student has big ideas!!

Lets bring greater awareness about this dilemma to all Christians in Malaysia.

I say it again CC is not the personal family property of SP. All AOG pastors must be held accountable for what they do.

It is a well known fact that most of the businesses under the CC umbrella were owned by SP's own family members.To date, they have not even denied it.

God Bless TTG.This AOG bullshit stops here and now.

(God only speaks through Pastors ... not through bloggers....Amen???... Amen...Amen...?)

OSTRICH RESTAUTRANT

Anonymous said...

t is a well known fact that most of the businesses under the CC umbrella were owned by SP's own family members.To date, they have not even denied it.
................................
IS THIS THE REAL REASON WHY PAM HAS BOLTED FROM THE CHURCH SCENE??IT SEEMS TO BE A GREAT WAY OF MAKING MONEY- JUST PARK THE FAMILY BUSINESS BESIDES CC AND REMAIN ANONYMOUS.BUT ONCE EXPOSED--FLEE.

AND CHRISTIANS ARE BLAMING THE POLITICIANS FOR FLEECING THEIR CONSTITUENTS??WHAT A JOKE!!

Anonymous said...

"my husband is a very shy person".
..................................

HE IS A WHAT????

HAAA...HOO..HOO..HEE...HEEE.....
AND NOW THE FIRST PRIZE TO PENTECOSTAL JOKERS GOES TO.....SP HIMSELF...HEEE...HEEE...

REALLY A JOKER!!!

Anonymous said...

I read this blog because I don't want to be axed by any super sensitive preacher for standing up to him.But SP is getting more and more entertaining these days. So he is a shy person? A shy person axing 400? Maybe CC Pastors think that the rest of us out here are all idiots. This man has done a lot that is concealed from the members view.In my opinion,he has gone astray after filthy lucre.

.............................

Anonymous said...

PG was heaping praises sky high on Richard Roberts who is due to speak in CC in October.

Richard Roberts is the son of Oral Roberts. Oral Roberts was one of the founders of the prosperity gospel and established Oral Roberts University in 1963. ORU had massive debts and had to rescued.

There are a lot of controversies surrounding Oral and Richard Roberts.

"Oral And Richard Roberts - Saints or Scoundrels?"

Read more at:

http://walthope.tripod.com/or.htm

Anonymous said...

CC has created history as the only church in the world that had axed 400 members at one go! Can anybody out there give examples of churches sacking its members en bloc?

Many present and new members are not well aware of the controversies of the scandals of PG. In CC, PG and the pastors say whatever they like from the pulpit confident that nobody will stand-up and object. And many Christians whether from AOG churches or others denomination and non-believers know about the crisis in CC dimly.

If anybody asks about the "problem" in CC, do not attempt to relate to him/her the crisis in CC. Instead give the web address of Calvary Today and ask him/her to read about it, saying it is a long story. In this way, the other party would form an opinion that you are a rebel or a disillusioned Christian. The other party after reading the blog will now has doubts about the affairs in CC and will enquire more.

The objective is to bring greater awareness to those who are not fully well-versed with PG's scandals.

Nosey said...

Have you heard that CC wants to sell the adjoining piece of land in Bt Jalil to fund CCC?

Wonder what else they want to sell!!!

Fr CT2 @ September 10, 2011 6:33 PM

Anonymous said...

PG IS SAID TO BE A WEALTHY MAN & IS WORTH MILLIONS. WE ARE AMAZED & WONDERED HOW HE HAD BECOME SO RICH? DID HE MISUSE CHURCH MEMBERS FUNDS FOR HIS PERSONAL GAINS? SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF MAKING COMMENTS AFTER COMMENTS TO EXPOSE PG & HIS PASTORS FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS WHEN CT CANNOT EVEN GET ANY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES TO NAIL HIM & BRING CHARGES AGAINST HIM FOR ANY CORRUPTION IN ABUSING CHURCH MEMBERS FUNDS TO ENRICH HIMSELF. THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE CONCERN WITH APART FROM HIS OTHER MISDEEDS.

CALVARY TODAY said...

Addressing Anonymous, September 13, 2011 3:21 PM

You asked, " SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF MAKING COMMENTS AFTER COMMENTS TO EXPOSE PG & HIS PASTORS FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS WHEN CT CANNOT EVEN GET ANY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES TO NAIL HIM & BRING CHARGES AGAINST HIM FOR ANY CORRUPTION IN ABUSING CHURCH MEMBERS FUNDS TO ENRICH HIMSELF."

CT Administrators' response :
CT was not set up for the purpose of initializing any action against PG or any other Pastor or Deacon for any wrong doing.

CT was set up as a communication tool to disseminate information and updates on Calvary Church KL to church members and ex-members. It is also meant to be an avenue for them to share their views, grievances or testimonies.

Anonymous said...

ANNOY. SEPT 13 AT 3.21PM IN RESPONSE TO CALVARY TODAY SEPT 13, 10.30PM. IN OTHER WORDS IF THERE ARE EVIDENCES THAT PG OR ANY PASTORS OR DEACONS COMMITTED CORRUPTION IN COMMITTING 'CBT' IT IS NOT THE DUTY OF CT TO ACT TOGETHER WITH MEMBERS TO PRESS CHARGES AGAINST THEM. PERHAPS I WAS MISTAKEN WITH THE AIM & INTEREST OF CT. BUT THERE WAS A COURT ACTION CT TAKEN AGAINST CC LEADERSHIP, SO I THOUGHT.

SO PG & CC LEADERS GO SCOT FREE AND CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP THEIR ACCOUNTS WHICH ARE MEMBERS MONEY SECRET TO THEMSELVES, EVEN MISUSING THEM AND THERE IS NOTHING THE MEMBERS CAN DO ABOUT IT. NOT EVEN CT OR TTG.

MEMBERS BE WISE AND DO THE RIGHT THING, LEAVE THIS "FALSE CHURCH" RUN BY MINISTERS OF SATAN.

Anonymous said...

CANNOT EVEN GET ANY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITIES TO NAIL HIM....
.................................
A RESPONSE:-
We dont think that is the purpose of this blog- to nail pastors with criminal charges. The first case concerned with the legal validity of CC actions in the context of a civil matter - not a criminal one.
Even though the Plaintifs in the suit did not succeed- it had brought about a much needed awareness in the greater body of Christ.

You will note by the many comments on this blog- that Christians are opening up. We were surprsied that even UM students had been visiting this blog!!! Also from Kelantan?? because they are seeing somelight here.About frustrations with their own church leaders. SP is not listening- but he must have sat upright with a bolt when the matter was published in the papers.

We think he needed that. One of the very important question raised in this blog- who owns the businesses parked under the CC umbrella?? Until today they are no straightfoward answers.

If not for the awareness that this blog has created-many other AOG pastors will also behave with arrogance. We at the marketplace unimously agree that this TTG must carry on in its mission and purpose. WE love you all out there - and may God bless you all.

MARKETPLACE CHRISTIANS.

Anonymous said...

THE TIME HAS COME
THE CROSSING IS DUE
ALL AWE THE WINGED ONE
TO VIEW ALL WILL

THE MORNING STAR

Anonymous said...

We don't think that is the purpose of this blog- to nail pastors with criminal charges.
.................................
I tend to agree with whichever group wrote the above.I as a Christian would not want my pastor to land up in Jail- unless he breaks the law of the land -because as a citizen of this country he is subject to the laws in this country.

But when His Highness SP starts to axe 400 and goes on preaching sweetly " Love thy neighbor" then something is wrong somewhere.

We don't want to charge anyone with a criminal offence- that is not our job.But the Christian has a legitimate expectation that the church accounts are transparent and everything is accounted for and pastor do not abuse their spiritual authority.

When SP was asked the question - why was the mission expenses so high??- he simply retorted- Airfares are high. ( Of course he avoided explaining in which class he had been travelling and which hotels he had been staying?)

One bank source told us that he had been swiping his enormous credit card bills- and guess who settled the bill with the bank??)

I tell you - the days of this high flying preacher is over. On the day he had the boldness to boot out the 400- that is the day the alarm bells went off in my head.

This great speaker wont repent.His recent praises on Richard Roberts - another pastor who has problems is another example.

This is why we must resist this pastors and I thank God for this blog which has become an eye opener to many innocent worshippers.

One elder warned me- You can't fight these AOG pastors- they will gang up on you. I was not surprised to hear that.

TTG- whoever you are - don't close down this blog. Maybe we cant go to Court- but many have come here and told their stories. Let this door be open to those who have been abused by the religious system.

Let this be a blog to resist Pastoral abuse. Just who do they think they are??

Farewell.

Old Fry.

Anonymous said...

One elder warned me- You can't fight these AOG pastors- they will gang up on you. I was not surprised to hear that.
.................................
Fitly spoken.However it is not unique to AOG leaders- the fact is,it happens in UMNO,MIC & MCA in our country.

Just who has dared to confront these leaders?If you blow the whistle- then you get arrested first. These AOG Pastors have the same spirit of the world. It's not how many sermons they preach that matters- how much of the life of Christ is in them?? If the truth be told- the answer is very little. They and their "submit to their authority crap"is just a way to hoodwink others to brining others under their control.

The AOG pastors are very cliqish- and they have their own "khakis" they fellowship with. The fact that when His Holiness axed the 400 NONE OF THESE AOG WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING SPOKE UP.

That spoke to me directly. The Rev title itself is nothing.They just created it to lord it over other Christians.Game is over.

As one REVEREND confided in me- WHY CANT THEY CLOSE DOWN THIS BLOG AND MOVE ON??

.........Shows over for these self titles religious quacks...

Seperating the wheat from the chaff is hard work...but it has to star somewhere. Well initiated TTG!! Well Done..

dime a dozen said...

Almost every pastor is a reverend. Theology universities and religious organizations dishing out honourary reverend titles, reverends are "a dime a dozen".

Anonymous said...

I drove past Calvary Convention Center a few days ago. Looks like the completion of the 1st phase is on track. The roof is up and the main structure almost completed.

How is the turn of the tap impacting the CCC? Looks like CCC can be fully completed next year

Anonymous said...

WHAT KIND OF PASTOR DO YOU HAVE?

Let's face it. Very few of these pastors have servants hearts. The majority are there because,of the power and the glory.They are the big shots in the church and they have the final say.They say they serve God- and this is repeated again and again.Of course they are doing it for free??So generous of them!!Wow!!

But if he has the wrong spirit- then the whole assembly is led into another religious bondage.In the OT and the NT -those who spoke God's messages were stoned and murdered. Today it costs almost nothing. Just prepare Sundays message on Saturday or Sunday morning itself. In case you have not noticed- SP and Gang have been preaching the same old messages again and again. To hear the message again-'Saved but still bound"- is reason enough to make for the exit immediately!!

The top AOG ministers isolate themselves. Below them - the division exists - different gangs of pastors - and one group will quietly bad mouth the other.To me all these are signs of a spiritual disease.

Recently I was very upset when my pastor commented negatively on another pastor.To me this is absolutely stupid.If he is a real pastor- then he should be praying for another fellow minister- not run him down.

I dont mind bringing my family to hear him preach-but after that its prudent to stay away. They can sort out the differences with other fellow pastors themselves.

We as a family learnt much from this blog.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

KNOWING GOD IS AS SIMPLE AS BREATHING!
Any struggle to know HIM IS TABOO!
Move on in faith in spite of lack of consciousness of Him!

I felt compelled to share with you something which I wrote in the USA and was picked up by my friend in the US who is a Christian Solicitor. He put it in the AOL Blog and circulated. It was not my intention but he said it had helped many.

So I want to share this with you, especially those who have been recently drained by the 'cares of this world'. Hope it helps you too.

Returning from the States and taking a new job as a Consultant has taken a better part of me. Over the weeks since my return, He has been speaking to me. His WORD is to CEASE ALL STRUGGLES AND ENTER INTO HIS REST!

Know this. Even though all appears 'quiet' the Lord has not finished with His purposes with Calvary Church. I will share at a later time some truths He has shared with me. But the first TRUTH is "Cease From All Struggles". In fact because I was so caught up with the cares of the World including Calvary Church, the Lord had to use a Hindu Priest to wake me up!

This is what I shared with my friend - dadjesse@aol.com

*******************************************************
AOL.COM

A Response to Faith

I received the following response from a good friend from Malaysia:

“After 20 years being a Christian when I was saved as an undergrad in Edinburgh Scotland, I am beginning to understand the simplicity of Christianity. You hit the jack pot when you said: “So I think we have established the fact that whatever faith we may seem to possess at any time is not ours – in fact we live by His faith [Gal. 2.20].”

Sadly we Christian don't see this ------------we still struggle!

I was at funeral of a friend who is a Hindu. After the funeral, I had a chance to speak to the priest. He talked about eternal life, etc. Then he quoted the Bible and he said something that hit me. He said, “You Christians don't believe the Bible. The Bible shows the simplicity of God but you make it difficult. No wonder many of us like your Christ but don't like the Christians.”

Knowing God is simple - so simple that even a tribesman can know Him. In fact any struggle to know HIM IS TABOO. In fact knowing God should be as simple as breathing. This is what I am finding out now. No longer do I struggle, no longer trying but enjoying HIM.”

My friend goes on to say:

“WOW! Over the past few months since my return from the United States I have been going thru this period of 'not sensing God’. Yet, I felt I must just move on. Work was getting a better part of me and I did not have the luxury of quiet time with Him. How nice to read just what I felt I must do ...................move on in faith in spite of lack of consciousness of Him.”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please know this truth first - CEASE FROM ALL STRUGGLES (Including activities) AND ENTER HIS REST.

I will share with you what other truths the Lord has said at a later time.

Vijay

Anonymous said...

In response to Annoy. Sept 17. 12.00am on "CCC can be fully completed next year". CCC may be completed, but its built by men not God. If CC pastors think that God can be impressed with the building, then they are wrong. Remember when the disciples were remarking to the Lord about how the temple was adorned with fine stones & decorated with beautiful gifts, the Lord replied " About these beautiful building that you see - the time will come when not one of these stones will be left on top of another. Each stone will be torn down". The Lord was totally unimpressed, and we all knew that what the Lord said came true for in 70AD we saw the complete destruction of the temple.

Usually when Jesus Christ spoke or predicted on something it had a prophetic meaning or emphasis,- so what He spoke could well mean that He is against those building mega churches in our present age. The Bible says the Kingdom of God is within you, not in any mega church building.

Anonymous said...

I drove past Calvary Convention Center a few days ago. Looks like the completion of the 1st phase is on track. The roof is up and the main structure almost completed.
..............................
By the time CCC is completed, they will so steeped in debt that no one can worship God with a free spirit anymore.All souls will be dampened. And you can also imagine SP's preaching--money - money and more money--- although he may not say it directly... but it can be conveyed in so many subtle ways from the pulpit.No one needs to teach him about this.


I felt so relieved getting out from under his shadow. He has successfully converted all the members money into stone- a memorial to his simmering ego. And further he has given ideas to all the AOG pastors- that they are the powerful ones- sack the members, suspend them or let them take us to Court... you cannot win the AOG Quack Reverends.

We as a family feel so much at home in our new church- just a small congregation with so much love.Just last week another Christian family sent us some sambal ikan bilis to our home- something unheard of during our days at Calvary.

Farewell Folks. And our last advice- Don't be conned by SP and Gang and watch our for professional beggars from the pulpit.They are not ministers of Christ anymore but backslidden religious demons- a situation like " the madness of Balaam riding his donkey".

Anonymous said...

Hi Birthday Hampers / Birthday Dinners

Oh, a RICH single LADY giving RM1 Million to the church in HER WILL?

No wander THE DEAD ARE SOUGHT AFTER. (AS PER the Mission Director's pledge)

THAT IS ALSO WHY SP appointed SK as MISSION DIRECTOR. SK can influenced MORE PEOPLE as COMPARED to other Associate Pastors. So YOU GUYS SEE THE TRICK?

Why CHANGED from Peter Ong to SK? YOU SEE.....

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at September 18, 2011 10:39 PM

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