Saturday, April 16, 2011

That “snaky” feeling again…

Remember that eerie, “snaky” feeling some of you felt when you first saw the design of the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC)? The cobra-head like design gave you the creeps, right?

To recap, read CT posting entitled CCC-A Matter of Concern” dated June 12, 2009


Now take a look at Calvary Church’s Easter poster and flyer for this year’s Easter program. If you get that same “snaky” feeling, you are not getting cuckoo. Look closely at the bottom section (circled in red) of the image of the crown of thorns. You will clearly see the semblance of the head of a snake! Creepy, right?

Click on the image to enlarge it.



It would be a wise thing to do for all church event organisers to pray and ask God for discernment and guidance while looking for materials to be used as church promotional tools. There may be things and images that skip our human eyes but nothing is hidden from God. God will reveal it to us if we ask Him for wisdom and guidance.

Moving on to more serious matters. Next week is the start of the Passion Week.

Last year, Berita Calvary posted articles on the series of events that took place during the Passion Week.
Click on the DAYS to read.

Palm Sunday

The Monday of the Passion Week

The Tuesday of the Passion Week

The Wednesday of the Passion Week

The Thursday of the Passion Week

Good Friday

The Saturday of the Passion Week

Easter Sunday

***********************************************************

Just Added on 21.4.11.


We have relocated this Comment here in the main page as it is a timely reminder for us to rethink what Jesus did for us on the cross as we approach Good Friday tomorrow. God Bless.





 Anonymous said...






Just wanna share the article below, from the Senior Ministry Living website. Hope we will take this time to reflect and appreciate what Jesus had to endure when He died on the Cross for our sins.


***************
And they crucified Him. --Mark 15:24
A medical doctor once gave a detailed description of what happens when someone is crucified:

"The cross is placed on the ground and the exhausted man is quickly thrown backwards with his shoulders again the wood. The legionnaire feels for the depression at the front of the wrist. He drives a heavy, square wrought-iron nail through the wrist and deep into the wood. Quickly he moves to the other side and repeats the action, being careful not to pull the arms too tightly, but to allow some flex and movement. The cross is then lifted into place.

"The left foot is pressed backward against the right foot, and with both feet extended, toes down, a nail is driven through the arch of each, leaving the knees flexed. The victim is now crucified. As he slowly sags down with more weight on the nails in the wrists, excruciating, fiery pain shoots along the fingers and up the arms to explode in the brain--the nails in the wrists are putting pressure on the median nerves. As he pushes himself upward to avoid the stretching torment, he places the full weight on the nail through his feet. Again he feels the searing agony of the nail tearing through the nerves between the bones of his feet.

"As the arms fatigue, cramps sweep through the muscles, knotting them in deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With these cramps comes the inability to push himself upward to breathe. Air can be drawn into the lungs but not exhaled. He fights to raise himself in order to get even one small breath. Finally carbon dioxide builds up in the lungs and in the blood stream. Spasmodically he is able to push himself upward to exhale and bring in life-giving oxygen. 
"Hours of this...pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rending cramps, intermittent partial asphyxiation, searing pain as tissue is torn from his lacerated back as he moves up and down against the rough timber. Then another agony begins: a deep, crushing pain deep in the chest as the pericardium slowly fills with serum and begins to compress the heart.

It is now almost over--the loss of tissue fluids has reached a critical level--the compressed heart is struggling to pump heavy, thick, sluggish blood into the tissues--the tortured lungs are making a frantic effort to gasp in small gulps of air. He can feel the chill of death creeping through his tissues...finally he can allow his body to die."

The Bible records this process of death by crucifixion in just a few simple words. How often we take for granted the pain and suffering Jesus endured when He died on the cross for you and me. Let us remember this Easter the sacrifice He made.

PRAYER CHALLENGE: Thank Jesus for the price He paid for your sins through His painful death on the cross.
April 21, 2011 8:50 AM


HAVE A BLESSED EASTER EVERYONE!!!

117 comments:

Anonymous said...

"With impressive staging designs, enhanced by LED screens and creative lightings, this concert..." as boasted in their Calvary website doesn't impress me.So what? Will it be save ppl if the Pastor is so "secular" ??

"To help the audience understand how the Easter Story is relevant to us today, Rev. Tan Sri (Dr.) Prince Guneratnam, Senior Pastor of Calvary Church, will deliver hope-filled messages every night"This sentence really sucks..just hope this SP will look at himself deeply. My hope is PG go before God before he deliver his message.

Blessed Easter to all.

Anonymous said...

Guynes was given US10,000 to chair the EGM and Robert Lim was given S10,000 for speaking in CC previously. But Pastor Phil had nothing.

Robert Lim will be speaking at CC, DH on Sunday April, 17. Will he again be given S10,000 again by his buddy-pal???

It would not be surprising the "twister" (you know who) will either disguise or camouflage the gift that the average person would not see!

Anonymous said...

In response to "That Snaky Feeling Again", we wish to share with our fellow Christians that we suspect very strongly the image of the snake has been very skilfully incorporated into the crown of thorns, worn by Jesus christ before he was crucified on the cross. Such usage of sublimal images are very common in our contemporary world of advertising.

When we were in university overseas, during one of our PSCHOLOGY lecture sessions, we were so shocked by the revelation given by a visiting American professor, an invited speaker, we practically fell out of our seats - when he blew up the adverisement of a beer commercial, very popular brand, we saw claer images of human skulls !!!! These symbols were embedded into the picture of a cooling glass of refreshing beer, with sparkling droplets all over that glass !!!

So watch out for the DEVIL's bag of tricks in Advertising / Commercial Pyschology !!! So tricky !!! Like PG.

Anonymous said...

HEED GOD'S WARNING SIGNS

By God's Grace, He has revealed secret symbol of the Serpent printed on the PR material design for CC's Easter presentation to the congregation and general public. We all know that the Serpent represented over the ages the symbol of Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, the Fallen Angel, etc, the sworn enemy of Jesus Christ - who died for our sins, redeeming us all, on the Cross at Calvary.

This diabolical trickery by the Devil is part and parcel of the spiritual warfare between God and Satan conducted on earth, in the fight for our souls.

Please rerfer to recent blog posted under "That snaky feeling again" for relevant details and magnified version of snake (aka Serpent, Satan, Devil) craftily incorporated into the PR design on pamphlets, posters, t-shirts, banners, etc used for CC's The Easter Story - It is done !

We seriously wonder whether Calvarites who innocently volunteered to put up the CC Easter Story posters and who sacrificed their time and effort to distribute the related pamphlets are fully aware of glorifying the enemy the Devil, through the said symbol of Satan in the said PR materials ?

Apparently, this is not the first time nor we suspect would it be the last. Is it possible Satan, perhaps through PG and others, incorporated Satanic symbols into socalled CC apporved projects ?

We wish to draw your attention to earlier blogs which had pointed out designs of CCC apparently to incorporate satanic symbols - the Serpent and Pharaoh's tomb. Do we ignore the warning signs about the dangers of worshipping Satan (instead of God) ? Or are we brave enough to seek the God's Truth behind the disclosure of these Satanic symbolism ? It is a clear case of facts stranger than fiction, like something out of Da Vinci Code movie.

Hope CT would please reproduce the said earlier blogs for easy refrerence.

Watch out for the Devil and his evil schemes. Don't fall for it.

Anonymous said...

Came across this GMTT website and it contains preaching messages from various international prominent speakers.

You can click on Prince Guneratnam's message and read for yourself.

http://messages.gmttmedia.com/documents/33.html

There, he 'teaches' about the need to develop "Good Samaritan Culture" and warns against the dangers and outlined the 4 steps to avoid a materialistic culture.

Do you think he walks the talk? Isn't building CCC a clear sign of a materialistic culture in CC?

Now I understand why the Bible says that
" My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment."

James 3:1 NKJV

If PG practices what he preaches, CC and TTG would not have come to this.

Don't hypocrite teachers know that they will receive a stricter judgement??

Amazed..

Anonymous said...

Adding to my earlier post, in his message and in reference to the story of the rich man, PG preached that :

"Jesus is not against having riches. This young ruler needed to put his treasures in the right place. God was certainly not his master. Although he was ”sorrowful“, he did nothing to change the situation when he was made aware of it."

So like the rich man, he is aware but has he done anything to change the situation? So how come he is still hoarding all those properties and luxurious assets and not to mention, the $$$$ in the family's controlled accounts in CC? Why are the $$$ sitting there and not distributed to the poor?

He can fool all but not GOD!

More Amazed...

Anonymous said...

“Don’t ask why”, said Robert Lim. Why not? That is what PG wanted – “don’t ask why, just obey and pay your tithes”.
He transfer fund to his personal account, and now Robert Lim tell us not to ask why? It is sad that Ps Robert sold his integrity for S10,000.
His sermon today is problematic. Firstly, he claim that CCC is for soul to use the facilities. Yet why Ampang satellite church closed down? And now, the car park beside DH is also about to close down, meaning you have to pay for it.
God does not need a building to gather souls. Souls are gathered into His kingdom without physical building. God’s kingdom is spiritual.
Furthermore, why can’t various small buildings located at convenience location be built. Why close down Ampang satellite for CCC when the road near CCC is so jam in traffic even on Sunday.
If it is about people, why then build at mega price when the rest of the people remain poor? Why the serpent and coffin shape of architectural? Why it has to be built between 2010 – 2013? For the fame of PG during his reign in World Pentecostal? And why despite massive money poured it, it still cannot be built? Where the money actually gone? Why no transparency? Why need to hide?
Robert Lim quote no verse. He said Christians must be rich. Yet he only meant himself and PG while the rest of the true believers have to be poor, eating only economy rice and pay their tithes to feed the celebrity PG for luxury lifestyles.
When ministry collapse, do you think facilities make any difference? If CC is not interested in ministry now, sacking 400 and stumbles many, what good is the facilities of CCC. Just because CCC is started to be built, does not mean we have to continue. And even it is continue, it must be built in the hand of TTG not under PG. Unless the leaders are true to God, the facilities make no difference. It may be just another white washed tomb with death things inside.
And btw, many churches planted in Philippine actually advanced with an ungodly motive that go against Roman Catholic rather than really drawing people to God. Beware of AOG leaders like Robert Lim who are driven by organization passion rather than compassion for the lost. Church planted in order to gain a segment market from the existing Catholic community. When church work advanced merely as business profit, organization glory and personal career's fame, it fall short of the great commission. Church works may not necessarily God’s works.

Anonymous said...

I saw the advert in newspaper yesterday and notice the following:

Calvary presents a spectacular concert... (the word 'Church' is missing)
The website now read as www.easter.org.my and not under Calvarychurch.org.my.....

Why ar...

Fr CT @ April 18, 2011 10:09 AM

Anonymous said...

What is the current construction status of CCC?

I don't see any updates of the construction of CCC on the church's webpage since February

Anonymous said...

In the advertising field, it;s known as "Rebranding " .."..These changes are typically aimed at the repositioning of the brand/company, sometimes in an attempt to distance itself from certain negative connotations of the previous branding..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding

Hope that explain why they are so "shy" to call themselves Calvary Church....

CALVARY TODAY said...

We will not be publishing any comments highlighting PG's international ministry for the time being because PG's message does not edify our spirits and bring encouragement to us.

This week being the Passion Week, we are encouraging Christians to focus on Jesus and His work on the cross for us.

He died on the cross and paid the price for our sins so that we no longer need to carry the weight of guilt for our wrong doings.

But He rose again on Easter day so that we may have hope in a Risen Saviour.

Most importantly, all these Jesus did for us and it cost us nothing except that we have faith and believe in Him.

Remember - Jesus did it all so that it may be FREE OF CHARGE FOR US.

This is the message we wish our readers to listen to and to read about.

Happy Easter.

Anonymous said...

"He is Risen indeed!" We celebrate the Risen Savior who has authority over all principality and power.

I am an occasional visitor to this blog and am supportive of this medium for free speech in discussing truth and transparency.

I am however disturbed with this latest posting alleging a subtly embedded snake image on the Easter celebration brochure.

In the west, many popular conspiracy theories use a similar line of argument to point out offending and subtly manipulated images and thus misleading people to paranoia.

For the life of me, i cannot see any snake images except a crown of thorns. For the sake of truth and transparency, please refrain from using the tactic of "witch hunting"

I am not a member of the said church, neither have i attended the church in a long time but this alleged information is uncalled for and hitting below the belt, especially for a site that would like to stand up for truth.

May we worship Jesus, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life in this week of remembering His sacrifice to save us all from our sins.

Anonymous said...

Thank you CT. BLESSED EASTER ALL :)

Anonymous said...

The greatest single danger in this end time is not sickness, nor poverty, nor persecution. It is deception. If anybody says, "It could never happen to me," it has already happened to that person, because that person is saying something could never happen that Jesus said would happen. That is a sufficient indication that such a person is deceived.

Derek Prince

Anonymous

Anonymous said...

Its the Lent season- Jesus is getting ready for the Cross,and Tan Sri Judas is going to do the ultimate- sell his own Master for 30 pieces of silver- and later was going to commit suicide.How did this man with such a noble calling end up the way he did? Well,the Apostle John was rather blunt on this point- Judas was a thief and now and then his hand went into the offering back.Did he really think he could escape the eyes of His Master? Judas could never have guessed that one day Christians the world over would be reading about his secret sins.I have a message for you SP and all AOG Pastors- serve God because you love Him first-not for filthy lucres sake. The church has given you enough.If you are tempted by what the church could give you in terms of $$$- remember Judas Iscariot.If you love the sheep, nobody need to ask them to give- they are discerning about the Pastors needs.But if you stoop so low as calling the congregation as "my church", behaving like a lord over others-Pastors Day,Christmas Bonus, hidden perksand all the other hidden crap.. remember Tasn Sri Judas.Don't go his way. God has many ways to remind you indeed!! SP- last call. STEP DOWN!!YOU CAN'T TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS!! You life will be a lesson for all AOG.Pastors.

Anonymous said...

On Sunday, Robert Lim was a supersalesman for CCC on behalf of PG. Truly PG and Robert are bosom pals!

I almost puked listening to both of them heaping accolades on each other.

Fair enough. If EFC had given S$1 mil to CCC. His church can justify and write-it off as a mission's offering or whatever. PG stated that the Volvo and Honda were a gift. Is this a personal gift from Robert or from EFC? If it is from EFC, how was this justified in his church's account when it was a personal gift and not related to the work of the Kingdom. Mind you, this is worth about S$172,000. How many churches can he plant in the Philippines with this sum? Something not right.

Besides the S$10,000 that was given to Robert when he was a guest speaker, how much did CC give to EFC over the years? EFC's new church was completed long before CCC started construction. What had transpired, no one knows except the CEO and possibly the missions director.

Anonymous said...

Even the worldly people have these to say :

***********************************
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
- Albert Eistein -

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
— Mohandas Gandhi

***********************************
I feel this in my heart today. Jesus did not die on the cross in vain. We should not condone wrongdoing for yet another day.

We are a bunch of NATO people. No action talk only people. The court mediation takes forever. Yet God is watching us lament and complain and nag here while injustice continues. Nobody will take quick and firm action when there's much more that could be done.

I am putting my hand up and volunteer to be in the Committee to make a change. I dont want my Savior to die on the Cross in vain. Let us start the ball rolling. Here and now, before it is too late and we will have to account to God for our complacency.

Winds of Change said...

What is CT trying to achieve here? The promo material is indeed creepy and that is it. I am actually quite saddened that some people misunderstand it as some sort of "satan" manifestation.

Is there a hidden message that CT wants to make here? that this "satan" or "snake shape" branch shows that the Easter concert is not sanctified by God?

There are hidden shapes in anything and that does not mean anything.

It is just creepy, that's all.

Anonymous said...

Dear winds of change,

If you read the article above, CT too mentioned that it is creepy and merely suggested that "it would be a wise thing to do for all church event organisers to pray and ask God for discernment and guidance while looking for materials to be used as church promotional tools".

I dont think that there's any hidden message there.

Anonymous said...

You scratch my back I scratch yours. Pastors cannot gift themselves with cars and big love gifts but they can do so for other pastors. This is an unspoken pact. You invite me and I will invite you, all legal and above board. Why did RL give them cars? PG and PG2 are not poor. They could easily afford to buy their own cars. As pastors of CC they are also entitled to church cars. At the same time we heard a youth pastor from Perth was not given the love gift although it was specifically collected for him. A youth pastor cannot return the favour. Only bless those who can bless you back. Bible teaches us to bless those who cannot bless you back. They back each other up and will come and speak on their behalf to manipulate the congregation. Sometime it backfires. A regular worshipper in CC tolerated the poor spiritual food she was receiving each Sunday until that doctor from Ghana was invited to take the pulpit. After that she left. She complained that 3/4 of his message was trying to persuade the congregation to support PG without question. Robert Lim's message was to manipulate the congregation to give without question. I am sure many would have been more put off than persuaded.

TAKE 2 said...

To "Anonymous April 18, 2011 4:45 PM" and Winds of Change.April 20, 2011 2:10 PM

I initially responded with reservation too, thinking along the lines you both had. Then it dawned on me that indeed PG is "dangerous"--I remembered about a comment that pointed to the CC theme 2011 "Love God and your neighbour as yourself" and it was ironic as they do not live by it'

In my devotion today, it was revealed there are actually 2 separate and DIFFERENT commandments,
1) to love God with all your heart, soul, and might *(Deut 6:5) and
2)to love your neighbor as yourself *(Lev 19:18).

But PG has rolled it 2-in 1! So, the ''theme' is absolutely outright wrong & deceiving! Even Jesus himself quoted the Scripture from the *Old Testament AS IS! but PG dare to TWIST the Word. Now, when one come to realise this, it is indeed scary that PG is a deceiver.

Anonymous said...

Dear Take2,

Matt 22 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[d] 38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

I think the Calvary theme for 2011,hypocritical as it seems, are taken from the above verses.

So I think CC kinda paraphrased and joined both sentences into one theme.

If they love TTG as themselves and as they preach, would all the court case and dispute be necessary?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Yes we know where it was taken from but PG has changed the meaning altogether. "Love God and your neighbour as yourself" means to love God as yourself and love your neighbour as yourself. The second half is OK but not the first. Ask PG, is it OK for me to love God as myself?

CALVARY TODAY said...

The above deleted Comment has been relocated to the main article. Please read from there. God bless.

Anonymous said...

aiyoyo,
You guys nothing better to do , ah?
Keep the Easter days sacred

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous Apr 21 12:53pm

Thanks for your comment :)

We share our views here because we care for the 'lost' sheep in CC that are being misled by an ungodly 'shepherd'.

We do have better things to do but we care. Hence we share.

Perhaps you should request PG n Co. to keep the Easter days sacred by doing God's Will:

-By first loving God their their whole heart and soul.
-By loving others as themselves, and
-By being transparent and truthful and follow Godly governance.

This would make Easter more sacred and meaningful than putting up the Easter Story show etc.

More importantly, we should be reminded of the painful price that Jesus paid for us, not just during Easter but on each and every day of our lives.

HAVE A BLESSED EASTER !

Anonymous said...

Go and attend the Easter presentation if you want and have a good Easter. But go with a steel determination not to be swayed by PG's talk on money, money and more money.

The church does not belong to him and he has lost his credibility to lead. Unlike RL who was the founder of EFC and its first senior pastor, then his wife Marion and now his son Dale is the senior pastor. As far as PG is concerned he is technically an employee and subjected to the Staff Handbook and also the approval of members at the AGM which he does not have presently.

He is a cunning fox who had amended the Staff Handbook for his and PG2's advantage and surrounded himself with his minions.

Anonymous said...

I fully agree with the comment below by Anonymous 10.34am :

" Yes we know where it was taken from but PG has changed the meaning altogether. "Love God and your neighbour as yourself" means to love God as yourself and love your neighbour as yourself. The second half is OK but not the first. Ask PG, is it OK for me to love God as myself?"

This is not the first time that PG has taken Sripture out of context, twisted verses around and blatantly preached personal interpretations from the pulpit. It is very dangerous, and could lead to cultism. Does PG actually think that he is given the divine vision to put forth new interpretations? Or is he intentionally finding ways to skew up Scripture and mislead the congregation for his own benefit? Or perhaps he is just too naive and is unknowingly being used by the Devil? Anyway, please pray for protection for the present congregation of CC who are left to the mercy of the Devil, and are being brainwashed every week.

Anonymous said...

My conclusion is that PG has simply lost his anointing. All the drama, walking around the pulpit, shouting into the microphone and asking for Amens are just a show.

There is no spiritual food to be had. After a while, the congregation will be deprived of spiritual nutrition and like you and I, will not sit and listen to another of his empty, unanointed sermons.

Anonymous said...

PUZZLING QUESTIONS (UN)ANSWERED

Why did Rev RL, the highly acclaimed planter of 578 churches in the Philippines (refer to introduction of him to congregation and his sermon) casually mentioned his church presented "one car" to PG1 and "another car" PG2 ? We believe and understand these cars are not your simple everyday version of Proton, Perodua or other locally manufactured cars (no snub intended to Malaysian made vehicles) but high powered expensive foreign cars costing a bomb each.

We used to see them parked near CC, but we suspect no more bcos they attracted attention of the "less fortunate" and "not so blessed". Perhaps, we may be accused of jealousy of their successes in life and blessings, being anointed ones !

May we pose the following question : Surely such huge sums of money spent to purchase these two very pricey cars
could be better spent on building up more churches in Philippines or elsewhere in South East Asia or other parts of the world ? Why did you need to offer these love gifts, (symbol of status and prestige in the richman's world), to two pastors who always emphasised so much about we all being God's good stewards of His Wealth on earth ? Or are pastors exempted from this often repeated ruling highlighted in your own sermons, dear pastors (and Rev.) ?

Or was it part of your "church culture routine", defined and practised by your exclusive inner circle of pastors - a Gift Exchange Programme - you scratch my back, I scratch your back ? Being a "love offering / a gift of love, maybe even tax free some more from customs and income tax, perhaps ? What's wrong with "Loving your neighbour as yourself", esp your fellow pastors of other churches who exchange gifts with you, and you and you, right ?

Maybe that's why the poor Australian youth pastor got no flashy fancy expensive car, perhaps ?

Last question, as an afterthought, have PG1 and PG2, made a sacrificial pledge AND FULFILLED it by selling off their two said
expensive cars and donate every single sen to the CCC building fund ? Do they practise what they drum into us every Sunday church service, Friday prayer meet, etc ?


So pathetic.

Best part is now the jigsaw puzzle pieces are being fitted together, piece by piece and .... We are begginning to see the bigger picture, the whole Truth. It is starting to make a lot of sense to us all. Thanks to God's double edged sword splitting the falsehood and lies, evil schemes, etc.

Anonymous said...

They may not only have lost their anointing. But their conscience too.

The PGs may be driving in fancy cars for a little while yet. But guess what????

GOD IS STILL SEATED ON THE THRONE !!

HALLELUJAH !!!

Anonymous said...

On Sunday, PG had said that his Volvo and PG2's Honda were gifts from RL or EFC.

When PG announced some time ago during his birthday that he was given a Volvo, he also proudly announced "and it's free". He further said that his previous Volvo which is a saloon is already ten years old. Many executives in the secular world are driving Volvos, BMWs and Mercedes which are more than ten years old. How many pastors can change cars like changing shirts (and expensive cars, too). PG2 was driving a Wira (probably from the church). When PG started driving the Volvo X80, PG2 was seen driving the Volvo saloon.

No doubt PG and PG2 will also be entitled to an official car each from CC, paid and maintained be the church. I now wonder how many cars does both of them drive. As stated both the Volvo and Honda are gifts from RL, it is hence categorised as their own personal cars, does CC pay for its upkeep. If the answer is yes, then technically it is not ethical. You cannot have the cake and eat it!

I am growing more white hairs wondering why RL or EFC gave PG and PG2 a personal gift of more than RM400,00. With this money RL will be able to plant more churches and his vision to plant much more churches in the Philippines fulfilled faster. Surely there must be a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch" understanding. Possibly PG would had made substantial contributions to his church building fund previously. Of course, PG and his missions director would have camouflaged this. So like the proverbial saying "all's well, that end's well".

patrick said...

The CC theme "Love God and your neighbour as yourself" is not very right as it can be interpreted this way:

1. Love God as yourself
2. Love your neigbour as yourself

We're supposed to love God with all our heart, all our soul and all our might. This is different from loving God as ourselves.

CC & PG should be more careful than to simply paraphrase and combine bible verses.

Fr CT @ April 21, 2011 1:18 PM

Anonymous said...

Just checking this page again to see if my comment is up. Well, it's not, and i see comments later than mine here. I guess it's because you only want comments that agrees with you. I could be wrong but oh well.

Please continually check your hearts. Sometimes we get too invested/obsessed in a certain cause that we become unaware to the slowing decaying state of our spiritual health. Passion is good, but it could also blind you if you don't control it.

I stand by my original comment that this particular article is too petty. Your eyes will see what your heart wants to. Always fix your eyes on the bigger picture. There are other pressing issues that could very well do with the kind of energy you are channeling into this one matter alone. Will God not vindicate you?

I'm not a Calvary church member so I have nothing to gain from any of these. Just following the development of this issue as a concerned member of the greater church that is the body of Christ.

Blessed Easter.

Fr CT @ April 21, 2011 5:32 PM

Anonymous said...

do you hear the bitterness and anger and malice in CT's articles and comments? it's a painful sound.

Fr CT @ April 21, 2011 5:40 PM

Bigger picture said...

Anon April 21, 2011 5:32 PM.

Since you are not from Calvary church you obviously have no idea what it is like in Calvary. It is very easy to give advise from the other side of the fence. I read this saying once, "You should not criticize another person until you have walked one mile in his moccasins (shoes)" Red Indian Proverb.

CT is the bigger picture which many of you do not see. You only see what the pastors want you to see. If not for the exposure by CT, many of us will still be giving our hard earned money to feed the Guneratnam family’s lavish lifestyle, designer clothes and bags even for the grand children. Flying business class at the expense of Missions fund and the list goes on and on.

Now I give my money to feed the poor. I give to orphanages and old folks home. I support Malaysian Missionaries who are serving overseas. I am more open to churches and pastors who share their needs with me and give what I can to help them out. This is the bigger picture that God has opened my eyes to see. Not just the need to build a massive RM250 million (two hundred and fifty MILLION) convention center.

I believe that CT has helped me to be a better person in the universal church of Jesus Christ. Now I attend seminars and National Christian events organized by our National Christian bodies. All the years of my attending Calvary Church for 20 over years, PG have never told us about National Christian Events. It was always pray for Calvary Church and give to Calvary Church. Of course there were prayers uttered for the nation, the government but looking back now, they were all superficial prayers. Today, I stand in the gap to pray for Malaysia, joining spirits with Christians from the nation to pray for Sarawak recently. This is the bigger picture that God has opened my eyes to see.

And then to Anon, April 21, 2011 5:40 PM – Of course it’s a painful sound.

For the past 20 over years, I have attended, served and given my hard earned money thinking it was to God and His work but only to find out that the leaders have used it so that the pastors can enjoy celebrity life. We share our pain because we want others to be wise and not be like us who have been so foolish for so many years. We wish that others will not have to walk through the painful road that we have walked on before. I hope that many others who have not walked in this road before will see the bigger picture that God is bigger then the pastor and the church building. Avoid this painful road because it takes a long time for the pain to heal.

Today God has opened my eyes to see a bigger picture and I am still very happyly serving God and giving my money to churches, missionaries and help the poor.

Fr CT @ April 21, 2011 7:03 PM

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon Apr 21, 5:32pm..

Thank you for your comment. It is always good that people are allowed to share their concerns and viewpoints freely.

I am from overseas and like you, I am also not from CC (attended many years before though) and have nothing to gain from supporting our Christian brethren here.

You know, unless you have been hurt in the same manner as others, you will never be able to feel the pain and hurt that they do.

The whole purpose of ths website is to bring awareness and also to share truth and transparency about the leaders of CC. If everything was rosy or if the rogue CC leaders were willing to follow Mediation procedures per 1Cor 6, there wouldnt have been a need for court cases, let alone this website.

It is OK for the axed and hurting members, who have attended and been loyal and faithful all their lives to CC, to grieve here. It is OK for them to lament and express their frustrations and pain here. This is a good avenue and its all part of the hurting process. They are merely stating facts anyway and hitherto, PG & Co would have stepped up and defended themselves, if these allegations were not factual or true.

As for Anonymous Apr 21 5:40pm who said
"do you hear the bitterness and anger and malice in CT's articles and comments? it's a painful sound.",

I have a question for you. Do you smell greed, deceit, wickedness, bullying and oppression in CC's leaders? It is a horrible smell, is it not?

I have this to say to you. There is pain and anger and surely the wronged and axed members are allowed to feel angry and express their hurt and pain. Malice? Well, I am sure nobody is set out for revenge BUT to seek justice and restoration of CC, for the benefit of all the other lost sheep who are still being blinded by PG and his lies.

So, I sense their motives and I support them in their efforts to put a STOP to all the wrongdoing, instead of continuing to condone and allow the injustice to prolong.

We cannot be uninterested bystanders to others who are hurting. We are all in the same body of Christ and if our brothers hurt, we hurt.

So, please exhort, if you need to, support if you feel it in your heart to do so, but please do not chastise these people nor put them down here. They are the victims, not the oppressors.

Isaiah 1:17 says "Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow"

We do have a responsibility to defend and help the lesser of our brethren. We should all come together to put an end to all this wrongdoing instead of condoning it for yet another day. My hand is up for this cause.

Anyway, today is Good Friday and we should reflect on what Jesus did for us. It wasn't just the pain of the cruxification, it was way before. It was also betrayal, humiliation, pain from carrying the Cross (the whole works !!), everything that led to his being nailed to the Cross for you and I.

Let us remember that Jesus is Love. He is the REAL THING and our priceless Saviour. No matter what happens, He is now seated on the right side of our Heavenly Father and interceding for us. (Romans 8:34)

As the song goes and today we sing.."JESUS, You came from Heaven to earth, To show The Way. from the earth to the Cross, our debts to pay. From the Cross to the grave, from the grave to the Sky. LORD WE LIFT YOUR NAME ON HIGH !!! "

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:-
I stand by my original comment that this particular article is too petty.Your eyes will see what your heart wants to.Always fix your eyes on the bigger picture. There are other pressing issues that could very well do with the kind of energy you are channeling into this one matter alone. Will God not vindicate you?
...................................
You express yourself like a Peace-Maker.So why the NEED to be Anonymous?Its easy for you to say all these hiding behind a computer somewhere.There are more worthy causes out there that needs your godly concern and attention too.Why spend your precious time here on this blog? Don't you want anything better to do with your time?Its easy for people like you to talk spiritual. Haven't you been through some hurts yourself? Did you treat your hurts as petty issues? If someone had abused your family's trust,would you be saying the same things? Our Pastor was given a years leave as the Church Board discovered he had a gambling & women problem.This only came to light when a student from China was invited to our Church and she told her friend that this Pastor had slept with her every time he visited Genting.What was difficult was that he always had his family went he went to Genting but apparently he managed to sneak out.What a perfect camaflouge!!When the Board asked him- he confessed everything.I love that man and am waiting for his return.WE felt this was a private matter and decided to keep it within the church. But CCC is different- it involves millions of dollars and the axing of 400 faithful? And in your mind- this is a petty issue??? Maybe- I misread you but could you please come out clearly and say that the sacking of 400 was a petty issue before I comment further.

THE MAGNIFYING GLASS

Winds of Change said...

Blessed Friday and Easter everyone!
I know one thing for sure... My Redeemer Lives!

Anonymous said...

CC / CCC - A FOUNTAINHEAD CHURCH ?

Do you know :
1. CC's music director continues to hold on to his title, post and pay desite the CC choir being disbanded months ago ? Can this be allowed and accepted practice ? Now you see a bunch of youths performing as replacements, including children of pastoral staff.
2. CCC's project director is NOT professional qualified and registered engineer, without the standard requirement of necessary relevant working experience ? Should not the vacancy be filled by a more appropriate candidate ?
3. CC's congregation size has been steadily shrinking ? Are you aware seating arrangements has been secretly changed, with extra spaces between the rows of seats ? during CC's heydays, the services were so pcaked and crammed to to the maximmum that you could not even stand straight without your body touching the seats in front.
4. CC has been transformed into a travel agency ? They are promoting traverl packages during church services with video clips of these destinations, tour attractions, etc. Is this right for business to be done in the holy sactuary of the church ? Do you remember Jesus Christ's righteous anger, chasing out the money crazy businessmen from the temple ?
5. what fountainhead church are you talking about when the sermons concentrate on "Give, give and give" and "money, money and money" related matters in the messages as spiritual food dished out ?
6. what sort of fountainhead church would chase out 400 plus of its own members and persecute its own congregation members ?
7. what sort of fountainhead church would have its leaders apparently repaetedly being not willing to settle matters amicably and peacefully, refusing to accept the fig leaf extended, somehow prefering NOT to practise truth, transparency and godly governance ?

Think deeply about these points.

Anonymous said...

If a Pastor is married for more than 5 years-and still finds more time for the young ladies in church- he can be sure that something is sizzling underneath & he probably is bored with his own spouse- although he will never admit it in a million years.Our church found that out the hard way. If only we had the discernment- all the signs were there but he seemed so spiritual & innocent that the whole church fell for his crap.Anyway- we shouldnt be too critical of Pastors- after all they are ministering Gods Word. We should be discerning of the tell tale signs.

THOUGH ONCE BITTEN- FOREVER SCARRED.

Anonymous said...

(1)Congratulations to all who have FAST and PRAY and to all who have diligently TOTT !
(2)" TURN OFF THE TAP " has indeed succeeded to stop the secular lavish spending in CC !
(3)Even Robert Lim had acknowleged that TOTT had caused VAST financial difficulties for the PGs!
".....“Don’t ask why”, said Robert Lim..... Why not? That is what PG wanted – “don’t ask why, just obey and pay your tithes”...."
(4) Let's continue to TOTT till PGs migrate overseas (passports not impounded ) and all secular blinded die hard supporters repented of their negative ways !
Praise the LORD ! AMEN !

Anonymous said...

PETTY ISSUES ? BEING PETTY ?

Petty issues ? Surely it is very easy for outsiders, strangers to CC, visitors, irregular worshippers to CC, even fence sitters, etc to point fingers at us, accusing us for being "petty" over issues. You may even accuse us of being a "troublesome" lot.
Do not place yourself as judge and jury over us, burdened by our respective hardships,and sufferings, during this spiritually dry period. Beware of the danger. You may be accordingly judged by God.

However, we got good news for you.

We don't care a hoot whatever accusations you may wish to hurl at us. We shall continue fight and speaking for the Truth until evils are exposed in CC, until all the wrongs are righted.

BTW, questioning the reasons for removal of 400 plus CC members is NOT being petty.

Questioning the manner the EGM and AGM meetings were conducted and recorded is NOT being petty.

Questioning about the accounts of CC is NOT being petty.

Questioning about the interpretations on the CC constitution is NOT being petty.

Questioning about possibliies of irregularities within CC, within CCC, within C-land is NOT being petty.

Questioning about the administration of funds collected and distributed is NOT being petty.

Questioning about the BOD and their actions is NOT being petty.

To all our accusers, please note it is our membership right, legal right and our GOD GIVEN RIGHT to question these "petty issues".

So please check your facts before you speak/write.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

HEAVEN IS FOR REAL!

Recently I read a book recommended by my friends in the USA: Heaven is for Real.

It is the story of a 4 year old boy (the son of a Pastor) who had a near death experience.

Fox News interviewed the boy and his father and you can watch it at:

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=9EM1ECNU

Get the book and read it if you can because it just shows us how great our Lord is.

In Heaven, the little boy met his sister (he did not know of her existence because had she died of a miscarriage) and his grandfather whom he had never met. BUT THEY RECOGNISED EACH OTHER.

This only show that in spite of the differences we may have with our brothers and sisters here on Earth, we will RECOGNISE them in heaven.

We may not agree with some of the views and opinions held by our brothers and sisters BUT they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ. We will one day meet them in Heaven and have wonderful fellowship with them. This include the LEADERS.

Hence the importance of always speaking TRUTH IN LOVE.

Yes, disagree but always with LOVE.

Yes, judge but always with LOVE.

Yes, correct but always with LOVE.

LET LOVE BE THE GUIDING FORCE IN THE FIGHT FOR TTG!

We all share the same big brother JESUS CHRIST and have one ULTIMATE FATHER.


Blessed Easter

Vijay

Anonymous said...

Very soon, much sooner than they expected, the exit doors would be tightly closed, shut in forever, without any escape for these "monsters" from the people and the law. Ask Gaddafi, ask Mohd Salleh, ask Hosni Murbarack. No escape for these dictators and crooks.

Anonymous said...

Do you all notice that there are African sisters who join the Sunday choir?
This clearly shows that the news of PG's corruption has not widely spread. Many people, visitors and students do not know about PG's sins. We need to bring greater awareness this year.
I am sure there are many who like Anoy of April 20, 2011 7:56 AM, who want a change and willing to stand up to see these changes happen.
Therefore, CT, please organize something to bring the change. Bring greater awareness. This is necessary. Make T-shirt, held meeting to clarify to the people, campaign and give away leaflets.

Anonymous said...

Correction to Anonymous at 1.49 p.m. How could TOTT caused VAST financial difficulties for the PGs? They are still getting their fat salaries and all their church provided benefits. With less money coming in they have closed the Corus Hotel worship service. They have cut support for some ministries including the Street Ministry under Kit Yen. Personally they are not affected.

Anonymous said...

I just came home from the Easter presentation at Wisma MCA. I happened to be seated at the mezzanine floor.

What was shocking was that the entrance/exit to the mezzanine was obstructed by the audio equipments for the translation into Chinese and Indonesian at both ends of the hall.

One of the fundamental laws that safety officers always pound on is "never obstruct exits" in case of a fire. Before anyone says this is a petty issue, be reminded that "safety cannot be compromised" in whatever circumstances. I dread what will happen if a fire breaks out. No one predicted the resulting calamity in Japan when the tsunami knocked out power to the cooling systems for the nuclear reactors. On paper it will not happen and yet it happened.

If Jim the Communications department director can ignore such basic safety requirements, it shows his lack of technical knowledge. So, tell me, is he fit to be the Project director of CCC when he does not possessed any qualifications, training or working experience in any engineering discipline. Only because he is PG's son!

Anonymous said...

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,

TODAY IS EASTER SUNDAY. COME ON AND CELEBRATE....JESUS IS RISEN AND HE IS ALIVE FOREVERMORE !!!

Let us rejoice in that we can still have the privilege and liberty to praise our Lord.

It is a brand new day. CT, let us start a new thread to bring about change.

Am sure TTG plaintiffs are doing whatever they can in the legal arena, to rectify the present situation in CC.

But I think there are many more practical things that we can do as well. Let us put our heads together and form an action group to support TTG. While waiting for the court decision, we can do other practical stuffs, like promoting public awareness about the malpractices in CC, urging CC leaders to repent with the involvement of local and international Pastors, press and TV current affairs program involvement etc.

We should also lodge reports with the Commercial Affairs Dept and Commissioner of Charities (or their Malaysian equivalent) for their further investigations. This is, if TTG plaintiffs have not already done so.

So, those who are interested to be a part of this cause, I hope we can email CT DIRECTLY and put in our names. We can then hold a meeting (overseas parties on speakerphones if necessary) and assign each one to a certain task. We should start without anymore delay.

Enough of whining and complaining here. We do have a responsibility to help the lesser of our brethren. There are too many innocent sheep in CC still, who need to wake up and wise up and leave CC as long as it is under the present unscrupulous and fraudulent leadership. CCC cannot come to pass under the present leadership. It has to be completed and started with a fresh new leadership team and all glory will be unto the Lord.

I urge those who are willing to accord some time for this worthy cause, to contact CT directly and let us all get in touch and do something and not condone this for yet another day.

Hope to get full support from CT and other readers on this matter. I need to add that we need not be in Malaysia to be a part of this. There is much that we can do even from afar and as long as we are doing something, we have hope for a sooner change. Unity is strength.

If CT gives us the cue to email, we can proceed. Agree totally with Anon April 23, 10:39pm..

Anonymous said...

Blessed Easter to all out there.Lets all say "NO" to SPIRITUAL abuse and deception.The Lord is my Shephard.ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

THE MAGNIFYING GLASS

Anonymous said...

The court case alone will not able to bring solution to the problem. Spread greater awareness is needed.

The purpose of the courtcase is:
i. that the AGM held on 19th and 20th June 2009 be declared null and void;
ii. that the committee members appointed during the AGM held on 19th and 20th June.2009 be annulled and be declared void;
iii. that the Defendants convene an EGM within 30days from the date of the Court Order for the tabling of the resolutions which had been submitted by the Plaintiffs;
iv. that the removal of Dr. Lum Siew Heng as a member of Calvary Church on 20th March 2009 be annulled and to be declared void.

Do you notice that AGM 2010 was held, and now the court case wish to deal with AGM 2009?
Courtcase seek to restore Dr Lum, but how about the 400 members & the many axed? You see, the court case alone will not solve the problem. Before one problem is solved through the court, PG makes many other problems. Are more courtcase required for all these? It takes a long time to get result, while PG continue to victimise many. And so far, it does not bring good result. AOG escape, the courtcase did not converted to Writ of Summons, AGM 2010 is not held back by the court, etc.

Go ahead with the courtcase, but something more required. TOTT, pray and spread news (bring greater awareness). CT website sadly only call Calvarite for the first two.

Many who support PG believe that the reason why TTG did not bring greater awareness is because God is with PG to shout their mouth.
And they hold onto the evidence.

It is sad that you know PG through the church cheat people's money, yet you did not tell those who innocent walk in to visit. You let them be cheated without a warning. Are you not guilty too? It is in your hand to act, but you did not. Nobody else could. Not the Anoy who volunteer, cause all he can do is volunteer, but he cannot make the first step without CT.

Anonymous said...

Enough said. I think the concerned readers have spoken.

CT, the ball is in your court. This is your blog. You will be the one to bring us from all parts of the world together and do something. Your blog, this website, is hitherto only a portal for sharing and updating on the progress of the court case.

Please give us directives and what we should do in order to form an action Committee.

We have nothing to hide and no hidden strategies. All our forthcoming actions can be shared here and out in the open for the benefit for all concerned and even as a warning to PG & Co.

Anonymous said...

you guys are sick, Jesus BECAME SIN FOR US - HE BECAME A SNAKE ON MOSES POLE FOR US.(Typology)

YOU PEOPLE ARE REALLY STUPID AND SHALLOW

i am praying that the judge will see that you guys are really the snakes - if you don't like sp don't come to calvary, go start your own. btw i am not a member of calvary. but totally disgusted with your website no respect for the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ. God is not with you. Your prayers will not be answered.

Fr CT @ April 23, 2011 11:32 PM

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous 23Apr 11:32pm

No thanks for your totally unrequested for and immature comment. Wonder why CT even entertained and published a negative and rude comment like that.

Whoever you may be, we rebuke your calling us names and putting God's people down!

Since you are not a member of Calvary and obviously are not concerned about those who are still attending the Church as well as those who have been dismissed, please refrain from voicing your opinions here. They aren't welcomed and we can do without your negative input.

Further, if you do not appreciate this website, I would suggest that you stop visiting and criticising others here.

Am sure you have better things to do??? If not, let me suggest that you seek the CC leaders to set the record straight, once and for all. And then this website will not be necessary anymore.

May God help you. May He open your eyes, widen your knowledge, remove every evil thought, give you a little insight and forgive you for your baseless, uncalled for and unpleasant remarks.

Anonymous said...

Addressing Anonymous Fr CT @ April 23, 2011 11:32 PM.

This sentence of yours is a give away to your true identity. In your rage you wrote, "if you don't like sp don't come to calvary, go start your own"

I will breakdown of your sentence like this to explain what I"m saying.

1. You said, "if you don't like sp" shows that you have a personal relationship with him. An outsider would have said, "if you don't like YOUR or THE sp..." because he has no connection with the sp.

2. You said, "don't come to calvary" shows that you are in Calvary that's why you used "COME". An outsider would have said, "don't GO to Calvary."

My guess is that you are just venting out your anger and expressing your frustration by verbalizing your wish that God will not favour the TTG cause.

I personally believe that you are from Calvary Church and may very well be a staff or a leader of CC.

I agree with Anonymous @ 8.59pm who said, "let me suggest that you seek the CC leaders to set the record straight, once and for all. And then this website will not be necessary anymore."

Finally, I am glad that CT published this comment. It actually gives us an idea of the kind of people PG's supporters are like, the language that flows from their mouth when angry and the prayers that they offer up to God when things are not in PG's favour.

My prayer for this whole episode is , "May God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Amen!"

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

RESEARCH SUBJECT - PROS & CONS Re CT Website

Dear Anonymous 23Apr 11:32pm

I am currently doing research on the subject 'Transparency'. In fact a Christian publication will soon be printing an article I wrote on 'Transparency'.

As a member of the NECF Research Commission and Transparency Malaysia I always value the opinion and contribution of people on the pros and cons of the research subject matter.

I read what you wrote in CT Blog and would appreciate if you could contact me via CT. (CT has my contact details)

I wish to know why a non-member of Calvary Church is totally disgusted with CT website and why it does not respect the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ.

I also wish to understand how you came to the conclusion that God is not with CT and their prayers will not be answered.

Your input will allow me as a Christian researcher to understand better your theology and assumptions and the basis how you arrived at the conclusion that :
1. CT website does not respect the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ.
2. Their prayers will not be answered.

I am sure your feedback to my research will assist others to learn from your contribution and also guide them to draw their own conclusion about CT.

Vijay

Member NECF Research Commission
Member Transparency Malaysia
www.normangrubb.com
Dr. Vijayan PhD (Mal), DBA (Aus), DMin (USA)

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous @ 24 April 11.25 pm, you are one smart fella. Excellent analysis. You must be an accountant, lawyer or engineer! Sorry, maybe English lecturer or teacher. Well done.

Anonymous said...

With due respect to,
...YOU PEOPLE ARE REALLY STUPID AND SHALLOW
....i am praying that the judge will see that you guys are really the snakes - if you don't like sp don't come to calvary, go start your own. btw i am not a member of calvary....

(1) Does your own Church & Leaders practice Transparency, Truth and Good Governance ? If yes I want to fellowship in your Church!
(2) My friends from another Church in Klang Valley told me in secret that he is not too sure ! He dare not ask his Pastors whether his or her Church TRULY practice Transparency, Truth and Good Governance! He prefers to keep quite and not be first to rock the boat and be called the fall guy !
(3) It is like closing one's eyes towards " Corruption " happening around you ? Just pretend not to KNOW and cannot accept the facts and refused to believe it can actually corrupt spiritual leaders as well ?

Anonymous said...

Wonderful analysis (Apr, 24 11.25pm) You have hit the bulleye. Please, whoever you are, ask God to remove the veils that is covering your eyes. Pastors and leaders are not perfect. If you are their child, parents, too are not perfect. Use your common sense if not spiritual sense. Could these hundreds of mature Christians be wrong whilst a handful of pastors are right. Who stand to lose the most?? Not the hundreds who left but the pastors with their wellpaid salaries and benefits. If the pastors are innocent and have a heart for God, don't you think they will want reconcilliation instead of breaking up the church and strive to protect their own interest. THINK, THINK, THINK.

Anonymous said...

NO CROSS AT CALVARY ?

During one of the recent nights, Calvary's spectacular concert "The Easter Story", we the audience were shocked by a glaring mistake -the principal character playing the part of Jesus Christ, our Saviour, our Redeemer, was NOT shown dying on the Cross at Calvary - simply because there was physically NO CROSS for him (the Jesus character) to die on, and just before that, for the two Roman soldiers to nail him to and take down from ! Is that CC presentation's another distortion of God's Truth ? We think such a serious mistake and misinterpretation of biblical contents should NOT be allowed in this concert, which is supposedly an evangelical event, being open to the general public. We as Christians are therefore greatly disappointed.

Furthermore, in all other the Easter dramas and Easter presentations in other churches elsewhere, the audience would see a dramatic visual presentation of Our Lord Jesus Christ dying on the Cross, bathed in bright lights, with flashing lightning bolts, accompanied with loud thunders.

By comparison, yesterday's CC version had the crucifixion scene shrouded in darkness and eirrie red and blue flashes and mostly cloacked in shadows.

Why so spooky and devilish, stage director ?

And for some reasons best known to them, they directed the high powered spotlights directly at the audience, during the sermon part, blinding us and leaving us in much discomfort and frustration, thus spoiling the evening show. Same stress to be endured by us during collection time. The event organisers should have warned us to come with our dark glasses. Sorry to say, it somehow spoilt our evening out at Wisma MCA.

However, we applaud the actors and actresses who did their very best in executing their diificult dances.

Anonymous said...

Good morning everyone. It is a brand new day and I am glad that my fellow wise brethren here have managed to silence our immature CC spy or critic. Haha.

Was just thinking. Worst case scenario, if CC decides to close shop, what will happen to the nett millions of $$$ (after paying all existing creditors etc)? Who actually owns the assets and gets to pocket the nett $$ collected from sales of assets less liabilities?

Am sure, even liquidating CCC would still leave them with substantial miliions of $$$ which is tithes and offerings collected over the years??

Am just thinking. Why dont we appoint a new leader (acting Pastor), find a venue, group together for services (even an empty field) and try and lure the members from CC to our new Church, starting from the cell groups etc. We can win them over by our love, transparency, truth and Godly governance. We can register a non denominational Church and call ourselves "Calvary Revival Church" Well, just a suggestion, afterall we are reviving Calvary :)

As for CC, they can swindle and dwindle all the remaining $$$ and then there will be a trickle and then nothing.

Am thinking. The court case (even if TTG won) will not permit the Church to sack those leaders (Assoc Pastors and PG2 + family etc), as there may not be any legal grounds to do so?? We may not be able to achieve the intended removal of the whole leadership on moral grounds etc. CC is afteral an organization and subscribes to Malaysian Company Law and Employment Act, right?

And if the present PG supporters remain in CC (incl SKum, Peter PG's family etc) even after PG is removed, it will not work too. They have betrayed the family of God by choosing to support an unjust leader(PG) and they all need to go.

Hence, we might be barking up the wrong tree. Lets join them if we can't beat them. Let us lead and show them the way. Slowly but surely, with the involvement of the Court, the press, international awareness and exposure of fraud in CC, we can lure the congregation over and CC will have to close shop.

What do you guys think? Can we get a place, find some volunteers who know their calling in the music and other ministries? We can start from scratch and where 2 or 3 people are gathered in His Name, God is there and we will grow.

Anonymous said...

My 2 sen worth.

I think TTG should just wait until the Court judgement day. It's just round the corner, 18th May isn't it?

Now should be a time spent for praying and seeking God for wisdom for the new Judge and the two parties' lawyers.

3 years have past and we have waited, what is another few more weeks? Let us be still and know that He is God!

Anonymous said...

Apr 24 5:26pm brought this up and I kinda agree. TTG is seeking the foll:

The purpose of the courtcase is:
i. that the AGM held on 19th and 20th June 2009 be declared null and void;
ii. that the committee members appointed during the AGM held on 19th and 20th June.2009 be annulled and be declared void;
iii. that the Defendants convene an EGM within 30days from the date of the Court Order for the tabling of the resolutions which had been submitted by the Plaintiffs;
iv. that the removal of Dr. Lum Siew Heng as a member of Calvary Church on 20th March 2009 be annulled and to be declared void

Supposing all these were granted in TTG's favour, what will happen? All the 400 members get to be reinstated as members of CC and sit under PG & Co's leadership?

I do not think anyone of the 400 axed members would want to do that.

I guess so much has happened over the years and TTG's stance have changed. So, unless and until the whole present CC leadership is replaced, there will not be ideal solution. Hence, the court decision (even if granted on our favour) will not be the solution to this matter.

The whole team of SP, ASP n PG's family must be sacked for having knowingly condoned and supported PG's malpractices all these years.

My 2 cents worth.

Anonymous said...

Did each and everyone of the 400 axed members received their individual CC membership termination letter spelling out details as follows:
(a) Name and IC of member.
(b) When he or she was accepted as a member of CC ?
(c) His 0r her CC Membership registration numbers and CC Certificate of membership ?
(d) Reasons for their termination ?
(e) Date to appear before the BOD to explain why their membership was terminated ?
(f) the composition of the CC BOD, their name and designations that make the decision to terminate ?
(g) Finally, who signed the CC termination letters under waht authority or cited provisions of the CC constitution ?

Names not typed in the AGM or EGM membership list is not acceptable as proof that he or she CC membership is terminated !

Any one want to clarify the above ?

Anonymous said...

Referring to No Cross the Calvary April 25 @ 10:39am.

I concur that the scene when our Lord Jesus Christ was nailed on the cross was badly portrayed. As the scene progressed it looked like Jesus was nailed on the floor. Many in the audience expressed surprised at this enactment and murmured "how come no cross?". As far as stage play, dramas, movies (passion of christ} and even drawings, Lord Jesus as always shown nailed to the cross.

I wonder what has Chris Lee, Head of Music and Creative Arts Ministry got to say about this? To him it is a small matter and you can be sure that he will keep mum over this episode or for that matter the church.

Anonymous said...

Not surprising. CCC also got no cross.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I visit this blog and I have been much blessed by the articles here. Most importantly it has created an awareness in the body of Christ.The exposure of rogue pastors on this blog is so timely.I recently had fellowship with a certain AOG Rev. and his 2 sheep at a tea stall and they were all ridiculing this blog.Of course- I smiled inwardly.When I asked about the axing of members from church and wounding them- the Rev. retorted very loudly- "Because they had the wrong spirit!!!" .Wow!! Fantastic assessment!!! No wonder he landed a job in a church- in the secular world he would probably be sitting at some counter selling cinema tickets,ice cream or running a stall selling yau cha kueh!! But in the church he has found "Power!!"

Prayer for the day- God above- please preserve the True shephards among us and may they be in your care always and expose the hirelings.In Jesus Name.Amen

PS. I am still wondering who has the wrong spirit..I have the feeling that these leopards cannot change their spots.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon Apr 26 4:12pm..tks for sharing your story..

So what if it is true and that the 400 members have the wrong spirit??? Even if it is true (which is NOT true of course), isnt it a Pastor's role to help them and resolve the issue according to what the Bible teaches?? Challenge your Rev Pastor - what about I Cor 6?? Why sack them before mediation??

What is the role of a shepherd? It is to guide and care for his flock, no?? Picture this scenario in the pastures. Even if a single sheep goes astray, would a shepherd shooooooooooo the sheep away further out of the paddock or would he try and get the sheep back into the fold? What about 400 lost sheep? But they aren't even lost and got shoooooo-ed away instead. Amazing injustice.

In real life, the responsibility of a 'shepherd' is the same. A Pastor should be the role model to lead and guide instead of rejecting and expelling the sheep according to his own reasonings.

Leopards will never change the spots because they are born that way. But Pastors have a choice, i.e. to serve mammon or God and they will be judged as what James 3:1 says "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment"..

Unless you have the anointing of God to do the job (and deep inside you know that you know that you do or not), one can only treat a Pastor's job as any other secular job. Only difference is, there is no stress, easy money. Preach up to 4 times a week and the occasional counselling session and you get all the perks and gifts.

I believe that one has to have the heart after the heart of Jesus before they can take the job of a Pastor or Church leader. To do the job as Jesus would, is a tall order but the rewards and blessings are great if one does it according to God's Will.

Another 2 cents worth..haha..

GiGi said...

What have been said here is true. The court case could not bring about real solution. We need to bring greater awareness.
There are active ways like a match, or passive way like wearing a T-shirt with "TOTT" at the back, while "Turn Off The Tap" in front. We wear this to Sunday Service. We can also pass leaflet to those who come to CC, telling them espeically the African brothers and sisters and new comers, on what happen.
Stop any clap that promote or encourage PG's pride or defeat. Shake no hand of pastor, as sign to tell them that it is not ok to pretend nothing happen, cause people are hurted and they need to be restored. When disagree with any sermon, shake our hear in disagreement. TOTT and encourage others to do so. It is a noble thing to do in the corrupt church. On the other hand, giving to a thieve is a bad thing to do, because one feed the wolves. There is no shame to fight against evil and protect the cause of justice and truth. Be real. We don't have to hide or in fear. PG and his gangs are the one who should be in shame & fear, for doing unethical practices and corruption in church. LEt turn the atmosphere around. They should be in shame and hide, not us. Unfortunately, at present time, concern members seem to hide and dare not to speak out in open, while PG can continuously preach hypocrisy sermon on stage. This clearly tell us that we do not do enough.

Save Calvary Now ! said...

Dear CT,

With your permission, may I start the ball rolling?

Week after week, we hear of happenings in CC that are misleading the other innocent congregation.

I wanna do something about it and as several of the readers have voiced suggestions, I hope that they will email me on savecalvary@gmail.com

We need to do something to stop the wrongdoings of SP & team and not condone it for another day. We are blessed with a group of smart and concerned individuals and our God is BIGGER than the problems at Calvary.

There are many practical things that can be done and we will support TTG and CT and volunteeer our efforts as the Lord directs and leads us.

Hope to hear from readers who want to help make a change and do it for Jesus, NOW !

CALVARY TODAY said...

Addressing Save Calvary Now,

We appreciate your enthusiasm to want to do something for Calvary Church.
However, CT cannot endorse your effort.

The reason is, CT is only a COMMUNICATION TOOL used for the purpose of reporting and documenting efforts by the TTG brothers and sisters in the pursuit to establish truth, transparency and Godly governance in the administration of Calvary Church.

CT can only try to assist you if you will
write an email to calvarytoday@gmail.com

In your email, please identify yourself and let us know how we can assist you very specifically.

We will then try to direct you to talk to people we know who may share the same passion as you.

Alternatively, you may want to talk to any of the 7 plaintiffs or any of the other 400 "axed" members who may share the same passion as you. You can meet with them if you would visit other churches in KL or PJ.

God Bless.

Anonymous said...

At the Easter presentation a second offering was taken for CCC. I believe this trend of asking for money will continue be it at an Easter or Christmas event or even on a Sunday morning service. Before you write that check or drop your hard earned God Blessed money into the offering bag I hope you would ponder your action thoroughly.

You see, when the CCC saga first started, I was wondering why do we need RM200 million to build a 5,000 seating capacity church. The math just doesn't jive. In fact I remembered saying to many, why can't we just build something like DUMC's Dream Center which is a very functional church at a fraction of the cost of CCC ? I guess it was really the comment made by the famous free mason architect at the presentation of the building plan that started me probing "Perhaps there's more to it than a 5,000 seat church !". To recap I heard very clearly that he was going to build us a church that will win global architecture awards ! For too long I have dealt with men with power and authority to understand how they think. The grand plan or true motive is often hidden behind a set of virtues beautifully packaged and presented for the listening pleasure of the often unsuspecting masses with the sole purpose of getting their buy-in.

I suppose we don't have to guess anymore what the grand plan is anymore. CCC will indeed be the showpiece for the Pentecostal World Conference in 2013. You see, when you start off with building a church in mind its very different from when you are thinking of building a showpiece convention center. That probably explains the RM200million requirement. Well, you can argue and say what's wrong with building a showpiece convention center ? Oh by the way, Malaysia is good at that. We probably have more convention centers than any other country in Asia South. There's nothing wrong if you can afford to build one and then long after the event is over, maintain and manage it. The question we should be asking sincerely is are we building a church or are we building a showpiece ? Apart from the cost one is for God's Glory and the other man's glory.......

At the end of the day....you decide whether this is indeed a worthy cause to give towards !!

Pray for Discernment !!!

God Bless....

Anonymous said...

Further to NO CROSS AT CALVARY, please do not treat it as a petty issue - because it is outright sinful. a blasphemy to our Saviour and Redeemer, Jesus Christ to "omit" having His Cross during the CC's recent Easter Presntation.

The iconic Cross at Calvary runs central to the theme of our Lord Jesus Christ, paying with His Precious Life for all our Salvation. The Cross symbolises His Sacrifice to wash us clean of all our sins. The Cross symbolises Jesus's full payment of our ransom. The Cross helps us to be freed from death. The Cross offers everyone of us a new life, full of hope and meaning, free from the bondage by Satan.

Yet despite all these truths, for reasons best known to themselves, PG1 SP and CL, the Head of Music and Creative Arts Ministry did not make the necessary arrangement to have a Cross for the principal character playing the role of Jesus to die on ! Why ? Why ? Why ? Socalled men of God yet can make such glaring mistake of missing out the Cross in the Easter presentation ? A Presentation to the general public, among whom were many still unsaved and not familiar to the seriousness of missing ut the Cross. Are the culrprits newborn Christians or what ?

Anonymous said...

With the cc/ccc crisis, now snaky issue and absence of cross, whether intentionally or not, I can't help but confirm my thoughts that the leaders of cc are either spiritual blind or spiritually dead or taken over by unholy spirits.

Save Calvary Now ! said...

Thanks CT, for posting my earlier comment and for being willing to assist in our effort to 'save' Calvary from its present leadership.

Passion. Yeah, I suppose for those who are passionate to see a radical change in CC, we need to do something.

Whilst CT is a good communication tool, it would also be good if you could update your readers and highlight the steps that are currently being undertaken by the other passionate readers or axed CC members. Are they doing anything at the moment or just waiting for results from Court Hearing??

There are practical things that should have been done and could be done. Like printing of pamphlets and sticking on to CC members'car windscreens during Sunday services etc, distributing free t-shirts bearing the words "Save Calvary",talking to each and every CC cell group leader and members, media involvement and also persisting in emailing overseas AOG Pastors to mediate.

I believe that as long as we persist and do something week after week and within our legal limits, there will be some results.

CT, can you please update if all these steps have been taken?

God uses His vessels. If we dont take action, we can gripe and lament until the cows come home and still PG continues to deceive the innocent sheep.

And by the way, those TTG and CT supporters who are still attending CC and reporting back here are like 'spies'. Though they may not realise it, they are still passively supporting the PG leadership by participating in their services.

I reckon they need to stop attending CC altogether. Our aim is to bring awareness and make the numbers in the congregation fall. Then when its only a handful of the PG family and ASPs and BODs left in CC, they will have to close shop or preach to themselves.

Anonymous said...

COMMENT ON ANONYMOUS

Unless you have the anointing of God to do the job (and deep inside you know that you know that you do or not), one can only treat a Pastor's job as any other secular job. Only difference is, there is no stress, easy money. Preach up to 4 times a week and the occasional counselling session and you get all the perks and gifts.
...................................



Woww!!! Suddenly I feel called by God to be a Pastor!!!!Not only that,we can hurt& abuse others and explain it all away with a few Bible verses!!And we can always hide behind some religious title- anyway who are they to question us or to touch Gods anointed???Its even better if we have seniority within the denomination- then nobody can question us... like the indifference & apathy shown by AOG Reverends & Pastors towards CC saga.Its a great deal- just preach 4 times and the rest of the time I get to hang around the nearby foodstalls chit chatting and call it as ministry and and guess what.....we get paid$$$for it!!!!I am seriously thinking about going full time now.

More "spies" needed said...

We need more "spies" in CC. Praise God for those of you who are there and keeping us who have been axed informed of what PG and his henchmen are doing.

The presence of these so called "spies" actually keep PG & deacons on their toes. They dare not simply make announcement or decisions without the fear of it being reported out in CT the next day. By asking God's appointed "spies" to leave CC is to make PG very happy. That is his wish that all opposition leave and he can bluff people who are there and no one outside will know about it. God always keep a remnant of His faithful people to fulfill His purpose. CC is God's church and He will take it back.

TTG brothers and sisters are holding on the TTG cause from outside the walls of CC. We need the "spies" to hold on to the TTG cause from inside the walls of CC.

More "spies" should sigh up to be life group leader "spies", teacher "spies", usher "spies", church staff "spies", pastor "spies", deacon "spies" or just be member "spies".

You guys save Calvary ! said...

OMG, I cant believe what I am reading.

Have said what I needed to say but we're clearly on different wavelengths. God knws I've done my best and its over to you guys now.

I'm so done here...

God bless !!

Anonymous said...

(1)" TURN OFF THE TAP " (TOTT) has indeed succeeded to stop the WORLDLY secular lavish spending in CC !

(2) Let's continue to FAST and Pray for more existing CC members and local and foreign VISITORS to " Turn Off The Tap" ! AMEN !

Anonymous said...

WHY NOT BEING PASTORS AS CAREER CHOICE ?

What right career paths should we as parents to our children (especially teenages, adolescents and young adults) help encourage and facilitate ? Which paths to guide them to take ? Doctors ? Lawyers ? Engineers ? Surgeons ? Actuarists ? Sports stars ? Professional golfers ? Astronauts ?

Then ... a lightning bolt strikes us, ... Why not be pastors ? Pastors ... Perfect choice !

Remunerations beyond your wildest dreams. The BOD practically give you all blank cheques to fill in YOUR figures. Snowballing salaries. Hidden perks. Ever increasing bonuses. Plus perpetual multiple "Love offerings" - local and abroad. No retirement age limits. Incredible Medicare benefits. Free life insurance protection. Free new expensive inported high powered cars (for pastor and pastor's wife). Free multiple exclusive family holidays - abroad - every year. Fly business class only. Dining only at 5 to 6 stars hotels and restaurants. Shopping only for branded products. Exclusive shopping for jewelleries with upmarket brands and exclusive designs. Fully sponsored suits, dresses, etc. (we must look respectable for the church's sake). Totally fully sponsored (read as "absolutely free") education from kindergarten to university (including post graduate studies) for children, grand children and great grand children (once your dynasty is firmly established in the church system). Oh yes, plus side line businesses - plenty of available opportunities. (We must have stress free lives, all taken care by the church - so that we can concentrate on preaching the word, and doing God's work.)

And you only work a few hours a day. Very light weekly and monthly work schedule. You just need to delegate your work load to your eveready servants (read as "lackeys" aka "slaves"). Make sure you treat them harshly, they enjoy such cruelty. they hunger for it.

Wow, we (parents And children) made up our minds ... we are "called" to be pastors, nothing less ! After all, we must love ourselves first ! Bible says so, we think ... or something like that. Anyways, most in the congregation do not bother to check the misquotes.

Just act holy. After all, nobody can touch the anointed ones. So easy to fool the sheep.

Anonymous said...

How can the idea of having "God-Appointed" spies be in any shape or form Godly? To even suggest that, is in itself UN-Godly.... By using the word GOD before any act does not justify it as being right nor does it make it feel 'holy' in any way.
I urge all supporters to refrain from detracting from the essence of the cause - which is to bring a wave of change and accountability to Calvary...

Anonymous said...

The word "spies" can be found in the Bible. Go read Book of Joshua.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

DAVID WILKERSON CALLED HOME

It is with deepest sadness that I send this Blog.

Detail report below.

THURSDAY, APRIL 28, 2011 Press Release

It is with deepest sadness that we inform you of the sudden passing of Reverend David Wilkerson Wednesday, April 27, 2011. More information will be posted on the World Challenge website as it becomes available.

News report below.

http://www.cbs19.tv/story/14529278/famous-christian-pastor-david-wilkerson-dies-in-east-texas-car-crash

I was saved at an event David Wilkerson presented the Cross and the Switchblade when I was a student in Scotland.

But I know that as David entered the heavens, the Lord was standing to invite him in.

Next to Norman Grubb, David Wilkerson was (still is) my other spiritual father.

Vijay

Anonymous said...

To all Pastors out there- Grace & Peace to you. My Wife & me want to share:--

THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
1. Thou shalt not be clickish in your behaviour.God has no favourites.

2. It is not your role to Judge others.Its Mine.Run the race set for you.

3. Pray for those Pastors who have fallen-never criticize them- because deep down you know who you are.

4. & Pray that HE does not expose your own moral faults.(You certainly know that its there)

5. Cut down on the fiery sermons and revive the Missions and Evangelism department. This is what the church exists for.

6.Don't invite great speakers hoping to get invited in return.Train the congregation- there is much talent in there.

7.Be content with the Lords Blessings- don't serve for filthy lucre's sake.

8.Don't walk about the land as if you are morally superior to others- its an abomination in the sight of God.

9. Thou shalt not put up more cement mega-buildings for your own glory.

10.Seek Ye My Face before you start any so-called church projects.

Anonymous said...

My wife and I noticed that Pastors have toned down their superior attitude in church since this blog emerged.God bless this blog forever more. And God bless those genuine Pastors who are called to serve Gods flock- and drive out those who see the ministry as a career for their livelihood. Amen--

Save Calvary Now said...

THE 10 commandments??? You mean your commandments????????

Thought there is only 1 HOLY set of 10 commandments??????????? Why distort God's Ten Commandments???

This dialog is sure getting weirder by the day...

Anonymous said...

How much did it cost the government to have Bukit Jalil Indoor stadium that seated more than 8ooo people built?

Fr CT @ April 28, 2011 12:52 PM

Anonymous said...

Response to Anonymous April 29, 7:53pm.

The total cost of the National Sports Complex is RM800 million.

The Complex consists of:
- National Stadium, seating 100,000,
- Putra Stadium, capacity 16,000,
- Nat. Aquatic Ctr., capacity 3,700,
- Nat. Squash Ctr., capacity 1,000,
- Nat. Hockey Sta., capacity 12,000.

Anonymous said...

Further to my posting on the cost of the National Sports Complex of RM 800 million, it includes the National Stadium with a seating capacity 100,000, which cost RM 554 million.

Anonymous said...

"SUMPAH LAKNAT"

1 political big shot have sworn over the Quran that the man in the video is INDEED Anwar-"if I am lying,let the curse (laknat) of Allah be me". Its something like the curse mentioned in the OT relating to idolatry-she says she did not do it- then the priest will scrape the ash from the altar floor, mingle with water and she must drink it and if she indeed did do it-her belly will swell and burst.

All this just points to one thing- lying under a religious cover is becoming common-NOT JUST IN MOSQUES EVEN FROM CHURCH PULPITS-especially in Kuala Lumpur.It seems theres almost nothing an individual will not do for RM1,000,000.

Exaggerated testimonies, falsified accounts,fake healings and fake healers, dubious Doctorates,time consuming & useless church activities in the form of cell groups-( I attended one for some months-after the cell group-food is served - and the usual gossip session begins- under a "spiritual atmosphere.The last cell group I attended- someone mentioned that a certain AOG minister is a homosexual. When I asked " How do you know this?" Her answer- "Everybody has heard about it." Thats the last cell group for me.After a tired week in office listening to fowl language every day- this is what I hear among so called Gods people!"Kumpulan Syaitan" would be a better,and truthful description!!

WE have a very unusual situation in our office- the Malay staff are very disillusioned with the Mosque and their leaders and the Christians are even more disillusioned with the church and their leaders.

I think it time-----Repent and turn back to Jesus.I urge all Gods people to return to the simplicity of the faith.In the NT there is a most wonderful phrase- " .. the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."


Have a Blessed weekend and may our worship be heard by God and His angels. Office Clerk.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

A TRUE SERVANT LEADER

This was posted in David Wilkerson's Blog and was written by his son.

"Dad was not one for fanfare, acclaim or ceremony. He turned down invitations to meet with world leaders yet would give everything he owned to support a poor orphan or a widow in distress."

I wonder how many Christian leaders have the heart David Wilkerson had.

You can read more at

http://davidwilkersontoday.blogspot.com/

Vijay

Anonymous said...

We could not agree more with Sumpah Laknat. We totally and absolutely concur with her comments on the questionable behavior of certain characters, including certain socalled spiritual leaders, whose conscience died ages ago, who would not think twice about swearing before the holy bible, to prove their innocence. They do jot have any grain of integrity or decency to admit their sins, but try to fool others with their air of false holiness and fake righteousness.

On the second note, we too stopped attending home life, because some of the activities are not God centred, but i8nstead circled around gossips about so and so, boasts about each others overseas trips, shopping tips and other mundane nonsense - all a total waste of time while being non glorifying activities. There is no longer wholesomeness in such home life groups. No more praying for each others needs. No more sharing of testimonies. No more intercession for others. Too busy wasting time on nonsense. The time better spend on own bible reading/study. And we are supposed to be a model church, for others to follow. Another sign of the church's downgrading and gradual collapse.

The church is shrinking to nothingness. Its eventual state of on and abandonment - thanks to present bad and evil leadership.

Anonymous said...

The anonymous blogger said, "If you don't like sp, don't come to calvary. go start your own."

We are nothing less than shocked that such an anonymous blogger, who claimed he or she is not a member of CC, could place himself or herself above ali of us, telling us to stop attending CC's services. May we question this self appointed judge, "What right have you got to tell us to stop coming to OUR church ?" ? Who are you to tell us what to do ? Are you in command of the main facts about CC to order people around, esp we who are the congregation and members of the church ? And what are you going to do, beat us up, kick us out, arrest us, physically stop us from entering church ? And what do you mean start your own ? When we ourselves decide, and not at the ordering/harrasement of some self appointed pompous bully (suspected sp supporter), we may stop attending CC, and migrate elsewhere - not one moment before.
We may even start our own church.
All up to us.

Anonymous said...

Another more serious note on the home life groups is that the majority of the time is totally wasted on socalled fund raising activities over the years - CC DH expansion program, then C-land building fund and now CCC building fund. A never ceasing procession of money spinning activities both during church service, during home life meetings, post home life meetings, during fellowship, etc - all energy, time and money centred on carrying out the imperial order of PG (aka the pharoah) and his bunch of moronic stooges. Those home life groups, suspected to be anti PG or not following his orders, are ordered to be "terminated" (closed). Rumours had been circulating that Ps DS, is the "butcher" (terminator) assigned to this vicious task by PG (dictator).

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ - If you all sit down and think through, asking God for revelation, run through all the facts and figures, deeply examine their behaviors and thoughts, if you join all the dots, you will see the whole picture and conclude that PG & gang are worshippers of Mormon, the Devil himself. All the sermons always run back to the theme of money, money and more money. And look at all his grand projects - all failures, flops after flops, waste of money, your money, our money. And no proper accountability and transparency to us and the public. Look at all the satanic syymbols - the Pharoah's tomb (CCC design), the Serpent (CCC design), the Snake(Easter program sheet, and NO CROSS during recent Easter presentation to the general public, who may totally miss out the crucial meaning of the cross, on which our Savious Jesus Christ died for all our sins.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

GOD IS ACCOMPLISHING HIS PURPOSES THROUGH CT EVEN IF YOU CHOOSE TO DISCREDIT CT

Dear Bro who wrote:
"My wife and I noticed that Pastors have toned down their superior attitude in church since this blog emerged."

These words are as sweet as honey! Such testimonies reconfirm that the Lord is using CT according to His will and purpose to shake Christianity in Malaysia. Only eternity will disclose the impact of CT on Christianity in Malaysia.

The Calvary Church saga is only the tip of the Lord's purpose. I believe that the renewing of the mind of the Christians who now support what CT is trying to achieve is His greater purpose.

More will see the TRUTH as the Holy Spirit continues to work in the hearts and minds of the congregation of Calvary Church and show them the quality of a true servant leader of God.

I even dare say that CT will be a landmark at least for those within the AOG because it has exposed the true quality of its leaders. In the future, whoever leads the AOG CANNOT ignore the issues discussed within CT.

Furthermore, the present AOG leaders will have to give an account to the Lord one day. Asking forgiveness silently from God without correcting their errors will not absolve them from their actions/inactions (restitution).

Study Church History and you will find markers in the timeline where God has used certain groups to stand for the Lord, sometimes at great cost. The wonder of it is that God used imperfect people to accomplish His will.

BUT! The Lord rather have a Peter (with all his imperfections) who DARED TO WALK ON WATER than those who sit in the boat (church) and do nothing! CT DARED TO WALK ON WATER.

Before you throw stones at CT. Ask yourself ... what have you done to find out the TRUTH re the Calvary Church saga.

So far, I have yet to read a well documented writing to discredit CT. And I dare say, that this will never happen because the moment anyone honestly determines to search and write the TRUTH, that one will know deep within the spirit that there is indeed something wrong with the present leadership in Calvary Church.

Some of the greatest defenders of the faith, like Josh McDowell, got saved trying to disprove the Bible's claim about Jesus Christ.

If you are a defender of the present leadership of Calvary Church, I only ask that you honestly seek truth for the TRUTH will set you free.



Vijay

Anonymous said...

To know the truths of what happened in Calvary Church first read the three posting under "Summary of the CC Saga". After that go ask the deacons and associate pastors which parts of the postings are untrue. Then post your findings here.

Anonymous said...

God's favour is no longer with Calvary- and I believe He is no longer with the majority of AOG churches.In its heydays- it was evngelism,missions,witnessing and Godly fellowship. Today we are so clickish( EVEN pASTORS) and can't fellowship anywhere without someone running down another Christian.Those days we can visit any church- these days the Pastor asks-" What are you doing here?"It does not occur in his brains that his father didnt die for our sins and the church is not his family property.How did the rot set in?We are first generation Christians-those days we have to pray for protection against satan and his deception-these days we have to pray for protection from deception while attending Sunday services!!!Our pastor wanted to start a mega multi million church too-but after the CC crisis and the appearance of this blog-he backed off and "Gods vision" also disappeared immediately.Churches-dont support $$$ if you dont feel led by the indwelling Spirit.Most city pastors want to put up another million $$ building- its not God- its his own ego at work.So many needs out there- people who dont have 2 copper coins to rub together- has the church gone blind?? Does it care? We could have opened the church doors wide open about these needs- regardless of race or foreigners- but we had blind leaders- and so the church has been converted into a religious club.As soon as the preaching begins 5 mins- most members are already on their SMS or I-pods- I cant blame them- lifeless sermons,Christians with horrible personal issues and hidden sins,and believers want blessings without being subject to KIngdom principles of personal repentance and living in the fear of God.I think the church has strayed away from God.

[In 1970 our church feared that one day the Muslim dominated Goverment would order the word Allah to be inserted into our Christian Bible.Who would have thought that it would be the church who would be demanding and arguing that the word Allah must be inserted into our Holy Bible- I tell you soemthing is wrong somewhere son of man!!!?]

Do you see repentance anywhere among CC leadership?And the whole AOG leadership is sitting idly by!!!I tell you again- something is wrong somewhere son of man!!

THE TARES GREW ALONGSIDE THE WHEAT.

LEFT CHURCH IN A HURRY~!!

Anonymous said...

Nepotism rears its ugly head again! Reading the May/June CalvaryNews gives you that conclusion. On the back cover is the church line-up. Printed in bold is the "EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATOR Jim Guneratnam. Music & Creative Arts AP Chris Lee, Children's Minintries P. Susan Tan.

When P. Susan Tan first came back to CC, she did not have a ministry and I remarked to my spouse that Susan Tan will be given the Children's ministry soon. My spouse said "No-lah. Chris is in charge." I said "wait and see". And it has happened. So the question is what is Chris responsibilities now? He hardly song lead now, AP SK does it most of the time. There is also no church choir to handle. Outside instructors are paid to train musicians. Children are now taken care by Susan. Not surprising you can see Chris walking about during service. Perhaps he spends time helping the jewel of the PGs.
Don't say being the son-in-law of the CEO does not have its rewards!!!

BTW, today's mission offering is for Guynes. Bearing in mind he had received USD10,000 for chairing the EGM, will he be given another USD10,00 in addition to the mission's collection for his appearance.

Anonymous said...

ITS PLASTERS DAY AGAIN
I still remember our Church's Pastors day.A grand dinner was prepared just for him & wife in a members house.Lots of gifts and a watch and trip to Langkawai( bedides a cash love offering from the church) he was seated at the biggest seat and looking very solemn and holy and all the attention was centered on him-even the non Christian neighbours peeped in to see what was the fanfare about. He had a scripture verse for all the College youth who asked him questions about temptations,nightclubs,dating...andthis was videptaped by another joker from the church-it appeared downright STUPID and COMICAL to say the least( What did he know about secular College life with a Dip.in Theology??) but he did not realize it himself.True we must appreciate pastors for what they do-but this was ridiculous.My wife was told over the phone-there is going to be another Pators days soon-I just broke out into a loud laughter. This time around I am going to take my family to Cameron just to avoid this sickening ritual and am sending a check to Malaysian Care instead!!

WHAT A JOKE

Save Calvary Now! said...

I am sick of hearing all the complaints. There is all talk and no action week after week. What is TTG and CT doing apart from waiting for the court hearing with stale petitions? Nothing I presume. Hence the problem continues and innocent sheep are still being deceived week after week. SAD and STUPID!

Chee Kee said...

Hello Save Calvary Now!

You talk so much here too. How come you are not doing anything. Go do something yourself and then let us know how you are saving Calvary. We may catch your fire and join you too.

I know what TTG is doing but I'm not telling. You know how I know? I ask them myself and they tell me what they are doing. Bro ask them and they will tell you. CT already told you this.

BTW did you write to CT and reveal who you are?

You see how they handled the NECF mediation process. For so long we thought that NECF did not do anything but they were actually in negotiation quietly. At an appropriate time, they release the news to us.

Bro why you call them SAD AND STUPID? You sound like PG now.

SAD? I see some of them in the church I attend now and I have not seen them carry a long papaya face. They are smiling and are very friendly to people all the time. They really have the joy of God in their heart.

STUPID? Just look at what they have achieved in this 3 years. They have managed to stop so many of us from giving our money to the CCC bottomless pit. Imagine, >< RM100 mil is now going into real christian ministry and not to CCC. Then Praise God for they are stupid to stand for TTG that has made the rest of us clever with our money.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Thank you for the information. I love maths and thought of doing a calculation...


If Nat Stadium seating cap of 100K cost 554M
Putra that seat 16K should be costing about 30M or may, I double it up... 60M as fully cover and furnished stadium.

But CCC has a seating cap of 5K? but now costing almost 200M or is it more?

Wow! Wow!

Fr CT @ May 3, 2011 4:53 PM

Anonymous said...

The birth of this blog is just proof of one thing- Gods people have matured through the seasons and spiritual discernment has been born-activated by the usual and high handed dealings of strong willed Pastors.

Those who criticize this blog- are you saying that asking for transparency in the financial dealings of the church is wrong?

Not all congregations are stupid!!

CC is just the tip of the iceberg- the reason why AOG Pastors are silent may be they are in the same shoes-scraping church money under various spiritual labels and fearing exposure-this may be the reason why they are reluctant to stand up to CC- I just asked the church board how much the Pastor got for Christmas and I drew a blank.The questions has been answered.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-SHOW IS OVER

Anonymous said...

An Actual 10.am TELEPHONE CONVERSATION-

Aliff- Saya baca you punya gereja CC ada masaalah?

John- Masaalah apa itu?

A- masaalah curi wang!

J- kamu percaya cerita dongeng itu?

A- Come on -lah- tak ada api -tak adak asap-lah!!!Saya ada baca blog itu tau!!

J- EH? Saya tak kenalan dengan cerita itu lah

A- apa nak malu-malu??... sekarang ini, Masjid & Gereja pun sama cerita juga- ada kes liwat,sumpah bohong,pakai wang zakat masjid untuk oversea trip..saya pun dah henti pergi Masjid..

J-Bagus lah- datang ke Gereja lah

A- Gereja pun sama dengan Masjid... semua dah jadi golongan Syaitan brader!!!SEkarang ini hampir dah hari kiamat...judgment day!!! Stay out brader!! Sembah ibadat masjid dan gereja dah sama kotor sebanding dengan rumah berhala.....

Anonymous said...

Sign of End Times

Some of us reading "Actual 10.00 am telephone conversation" may end up having a good laugh over it. Some others who are more discerning, have the Holy Spirit to read deeper into the parting remark, which serves as a warning of End Times, aka Doomsday. When will it happen ? Only our Father God knows, He alone.

The really scary news is that Satan, the Fallen Angel, comes in the form of a False Prophet, a false Saviour to the world, while performing miracles, wonders, etc, winning billions to his unholy cause. He attacks the churches from inside through our own chief priests, senior pastors and other religious leaders, who actually are on the Devil's side !

Anonymous said...

Its pitiful when Muslim can comment on a church like that- really pitiful and is a cause of Lamentation!!

[If they are disillusioned with their leadership- the church should have been a model- but alas- this is a Lamentation

Anonymous said...

“Not all congregations are stupid”. You must also agree that not all pastors are self serving. Most pastors do have a shepherd’s heart, caring and nurturing the sheep as called on by God as their sacred duty. This includes most AOG pastors. I dare say that most AOG pastors are sincere and genuine. If they make mistakes it is probably due to ignorance with no intention to deceive or defraud. Although it had been said that the AOG denomination was set up to look after pastors and not the sheep, I do not believe it to be so. Unfortunately this wrong perception comes from bad experiences with some AOG pastors. AOG churches that have very strong pastors seem to produce better results in terms of numbers and offering. Eventually this very strength of the pastor will degenerate into a dictatorship with the pastor seeing himself as God’s anointed CEO to run the church without hindrance or the need to be accountable. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You can see and hear the same story repeated all over North Africa and the Middle East. I heard that in a nearby country it is usual for an AOG pastors to behave like he owns the church. Whatever money comes in belongs to him. It is at his absolute discretion to use it for the Kingdom or himself. He has absolute power over the church. This is absolutely unscriptural. However their apparent success makes them heroes in the AOG world. As their dictatorial methods seem to work so well the model of absolute control is idolized by not only other AOG pastors but also by pastors of so called independent churches. That is why many churches are now being started as independent; meaning the pastor does not need to be accountable to a higher authority. In actual fact the powers and authority of these pastors often far exceed that of a secular CEO. A secular CEO does not have the spiritual weapon that a pastor has to make sure that he is never challenged by the people under him. A secular CEO is accountable to the board of directors and the shareholders. The pastor directly or indirectly appoints the deacons to his board. Combining spiritual authority with the authority as CEO he would have almost absolute authority. Questioning your pastor is questioning God. Asking for transparency and accountability is like asking God for transparency and accountability. So the abuse of power can just goes on and on. So I agree, the congregation must not be stupid. If you willingly allow your pastor to abuse his powers, you are not only stupid, you are negligent and irresponsible. God will hold you to account.

Winds of Change said...

The only thing we can do now is to continue to turn off the tap at CC. I think it's working. SP, Pastors, deacons are already feeling the pressure. You can see a change in their attitudes.

Give your money to the needy or other churches that have missions. Don't just keep your money, continue to invest in the Kingdom of God.

I can see a lot of verbal abuses, conflicts and hatred starting to sprout in this Comments section.

Please, in whatever situation, remember that our Lord Jesus is watching us, even as we type. Please stop all the judging, conflicts (we are called the be peacemakers), name-callings, swearings and etc, even to the CC and its pastors.

Instead, pray for these situations. Speak of Good, not Evil. God Bless.

Anonymous said...

After reading this blog and all the comments,the sad thing is despite all these PG choose to remain silence..a DEAFENING SILENCE !!He is going on as if nothing happens..About time for him to defend himself or "Silence is Guilty" plead...

Anonymous said...

I, and I believe many others would hope to see some CBT charges filed against SP and perhaps some others if there evidences to prove they have misused public funds (members'money) for their personal gains. Our hard earned money given for God's use had been abused by these individuals who unscrupulosly used them the way they like and provide for themselves with fat salaries and all kinds of benefits & perks.

I do not think court action is effective enough to bring about any solution or victory over them. What is needed is to get rid of SP and all his crony pastors from their leadership.
All the many comments on this blog would not help as many do not get into this blog. I still think the more effective way is to take the fight to the people (church members). They are the core of the church and its them to decide which leaders they want to have. Like what GIGI earlier said, bring awareness and knowledge of the true situation to more of the members. I am an ex-calvarite, but 2 of my distant relatives are still in CC and their parents who not too long ago was baptised and joined CC. When I spoke to them of the troubles with the CC pastors, they are not very aware of them and seemed rather surprised to hear about them. However being new christians, they do not seemed to understand the importance of spiritual righteousness in our christian living, and I believe many are like them to. GIGI had memtioned on some methods to get more members aware, so perhaps CT can look into those suggestions.

Dan said...

Anonymous brothers. I dare not call you brothers in Christ cause by the way you are attacking the church, you do not represent Christ at all.

I actually didn’t want to join in this ridiculous bickering but there is a prompting that I should write something.

Yes, you know how to quote scriptures in the bible but you certainly do not know how to apply it.

Anyone who dislike something will try all their ways to find fault with the person or in this case the Senior Pastor or the Church, The Pharisees and Sadducees did that with Jesus.

Remember one thing, you must not break the body of Christ. God bless you all.

Anonymous said...

Not being cheeky or funny but face it.. a luxury SUV for PG means he's paying premium petrol and maintenance. I can't believe a pastor would even consider buying a luxury SUV for another pastor. Besides, it's just foolish stewardship to spend so much on a car. It's papa's money and I'm no prodigal's son.

Just the other day, I was counting on papa to speak to me and He said, "Read 2Pet2".

I like what Anonymous May 4, 2011 11:52 PM said about AOG pastors. People put pastors on the pedestal. It's just natural cause what you see in our country is exactly what's manifested in the church. If people give in to silly policies and practices because they want to be seen as 'submitting' to authorities then we call it "unaccountable and irresponsible". If people start migrating out, they're seen as "unconcerned and detached". Hey, either way - it's not fine.

So we need to take a stand. Here comes a group that completely turns the table upside down, inside out, absolutely contrary to the norm. They're concerned, attached, accountable and responsible and they get mocked for it.

Anonymous said...

FAMILY MAN FROM AN "ULU AREA"- A RESPONSE my mother TO:-
"If you willingly allow your pastor to abuse his powers, you are not only stupid, you are negligent and irresponsible.God will hold you to account"
..................................

WE only small family - worship God in church.He much talk money-money- cheen-cheen-cheen-may be he find other job better-Jesus not like that.We dont want trouble- so we no say something.Last time he said- If you don't like this church- you can go find another church!!This is really "Ou-Siau pastor!!" Moh Kooi Mok See....Cheh!!!

Anonymous said...

A COMMENT ON DANS COMMENT
Remember one thing, you must not break the body of Christ. God bless you all.

So Brother Dan- who do you think really broke the body of Christ in CC?

God bless you also Bro.Dan.

Anonymous said...

Dan oh Dan,

TTG is not finding fault with Senior Pastor of the church. He stole God's money and God is finding fault with the Senior Pastor by raising up TTG people.

You said that the Pharisees and Sadducees did that with Jesus. You are right, PG is the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders) here. The TTG are just ordinary man on the street. They have no position in church, no power over the members. Can't use church money or personnel to do his work for him. TTG sure cannot afford to pay 6 figure fees to get a lawyer to defend him.

PG is more like the Pharisee or Sadducee going around the world with big big spiritual titles, rubbing shoulders with all the world super religious leaders. So please go tell PG aka the CC Pharisee or Sadducee not to persecute Jesus any more.

Every member PG axed from the church is a hammer to the nails in Jesus' hands and feet on the cross.

Anonymous said...

To, "....I believe many others would hope to see some CBT charges filed against SP and perhaps some others if there evidences to prove they have misused public funds (members'money) for their personal gains. "
There is no Time Bar for CBT which is a Criminal ARRESTABLE Offence under the PENAL CODE !
A Police Report has been FILED! It has not been NFA by AG yet ! Just Pray that PG can sleep well every nights!