Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Callous Pastors and Wounded Sheep

The NECF has decided to hold the Malaysia Jubilee Prayer Celebration in CCC on the coming 15 September 2013. 

Many Church Pastors have asked their congregation to attend this prayer event in CCC. While many are ready to attend this event, there is a group of wounded sheep, the ex-Calvarites and the axed-Calvarites, in their congregation who are reluctant to attend this prayer meeting. Many of these “ex-” and “axed-” Calvarites have opted to pray at home. 

Instead of extending an arm of encouragement and trying to understand the predicament these ex-Calvaites are in, some of the Pastors are preaching the sermon of forgiveness and proclaiming the judgement of curse on those who are unwilling to forgive. 

This is an extract of a sermon entitled "The Blindness of Sin"  that Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) was reported to have preached at the CCC on 9 August 2013, as reported in Christianity Malaysia.

“We have to understand that living in sin and even holding on to unforgiveness can cause us to be blind to things. We must not stay in that sinful state for there lays a curse.” 

Therefore, sermons such as these implies that those who have expressed their unwillingness to attend the Malaysia Jubilee Prayer Celebration are still harboring unforgiveness in their heart.

However, to ex-Calvarites, this is indeed an irony, coming from a Pastor who was so blinded that he had no hesitation to sack hundreds of his members who questioned his mismanagement and misuse of Church funds.  These wounded sheep who have been rescued by God in His mercy and grace, from the land of "Egypt" are now being asked by the new Pastors to re-visit "Egypt". 

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)

The following is a letter from a Pastor to one of these ex-Calvarites who have decided not to attend the Prayer Celebration at CCC this coming 15 September 2013. We believe that this is the stand NECF and many Pastors are taking when confronted with ex-Calvarites who choose not to attend this prayer event at the CCC.


We need to pray for Pastor Prince and for the debt to be settled in a God- honoring way. In the end it is the Christian testimony that counts in Malaysia. When one part of the body hurts, all the rest of the body hurts too.

Once a project is started in God's name, the whole world looks on. Rightly or wrongly, the world does not care because it only looks to criticize the Church of Jesus Christ. So we need to protect the good name of The Lord. How?

We pray for the leader that God will direct him in the right way.
We pray for the protection of the Name of Christ
We do what we can if possible to help.
We will not join in the host of criticism but instead pray for the wrong doer or pray for God' s vindication if innocent.
We will not spread the accusations but leave it to The Lord, especially when we cannot know both sides of the story. 
We must not make judgments unless we know both sides.
We must forgive the wrong doer and if he is repentant we must help to restore and to control damage because the real enemy of the Church , satan, seeks to destroy His church.

Pastors are a rare breed nowadays! Many do not want to become pastors because of the stress and heartaches. Many churches cannot find successors to replace their pastors. Every month, 200 pastors resign in America alone. AOG Pastors in Malaysia suffer the most heart problems so much so the Insurance Company have refused to insure them! 

So we need to pray for every pastor and not to help satan destroy them by either making them fall into sin, or make mistakes big and small, or expect them to be superhuman. We will not spread negative stories about them. Let God deal with them. We can only advise and pray. If truly in the wrong, God will judge because a pastor holds a greater responsibility and face a greater judgment. We are called to pray and not be the Judge. Even when action has to be taken, do it in love not in spite.

We ourselves have gone through so many false accusations just because we will not compromise, or have to correct wrongdoing, or refuse to be bribed or intimidated. So we would like to encourage all who are called Christians to pray for the Body of Christ and for God to give to us,  shepherds of character and wisdom. We commit the false and corrupt into God's hands.

I do not mind you passing on this message to the whole body of Christ. How we need to close ranks, pray for the weak and encourage the weary! Our enemy is not flesh and blood but principalities and powers of darkness.

May The Lord return to a united, faithful loving church.    

Here are some responses written by different ex-Calvarites, who have read this letter.

Response #1 
To go back to CCC when the Lord closed doors - IT IS NO.   To participate what they are doing NO.   To walk with the Lord any case PG insists despite all the evidence I HAVE DONE NO WRONG......he never asked for forgiveness........but we have made the choice to forgive him all the same.     When the pastor mentioned judging - is it not true that when a brother sin, we must go to him to tell him of his wrong-doing?   Is this judging?
A pastor can make mistakes but must have a humble attitude to admit wrong and get things settled in love.......this is something to ponder.......

Response #2
Many close to 1000 including I have already let go, forgiven PG for the wrongs done to us, the sheep under his care.

Many of us who left  CC have found 'pastures to graze' and eventually got involved with the service for our Lord......but many too have stumbled and do not want even to go to worship - this is sad and this hurts the most.  We are working and praying these will be restored and healing comes to them.

Response #3
I am sorry to say that this pastor is treating ex-CC members as firstly like kids and secondly people still suffering  pains from church abuse can move on...

Will PG confess all that unspiritual acts  he and his cronies have done and still doing these many many years before and after the start of the CCC project?  Has any one from the pastoral or the elders group come forward with a full explanation and not just attribute the "wrong doings" to only the victims?  Has anyone still in the CC institution ever expressed concern for a deacon sacked as a result of a kangaroo style court hearing? We know that there are dozens more very vital issues besides the wrongful usage of the church money and dictatorial power.

It is very unfair to listen just to one man's justification of  his "image" and family survival and protection and ignore the practice of church abuse unless your pastor is revealing a common practice in all churches in this sick world.

Let me give a quotation from a world leader:- "Forgive your enemies but do not forget their names."

Please tell your pastor that you have forgiven him but it is harder to forget that lousy name of a so-called Shepard.

Pastors and leaders from other churches should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger and not taking sidesinted.  Why?  PG has often reminded his congregation of the saying "Birds of a feather congregate together".  This saying is applicable to all including men of God using the pulpits to teach.

Response #4
Just sharing the little I know and is not an attack on Ps. This is the ills of the churches around. What the pastor shared are things I have heard from many others who have been raving about the building and the goods the building is to the Christian community here in Malaysia, a Muslim nation. That is why I say the Pride of Christians in M'sia. Do correct me if I am out of line with my opinions, most importantly, if I am wrong biblically. 

Response #5
Praise God that He is still doing wonderful things for me to cause me to fly higher with Him as He has done since the problems started in CC. He never fails. To God be the glory. His grace is ever before me.

This email is encouraging to me at this time when many Christian leaders are blinded by the grandeur of a building, which suddenly has become a Christian "pride"  in Malaysia which must be saved at "all" cost, to illustrate God's glory. A building?

Also I wonder when we need to defend God's Majestic Name, when He is the One who defend us, His followers. So cover the dirt so that the Church as one body will look 'good' to others. Will this please man or God? I know my God is much mightier and sovereign. He is the All-Powerful One. Are we drawn into secular mindset nowadays? 

Another point to make is if pastors are called, why do they fail? Are they not called to stand for Christ, the Truth, The Way and the Life. So what if insurance companies do not insured the AOG pastors? To whom and in whom do we trust? And why the rejection? If pastors cannot stand the fire of refining, can they be true shepherds for the many lost sheep? I rather have one Paul than many Diotrephes? What do you think? Has the Church as a whole fail the world? Is there a compromise in our values for unity sake? 

I leave the judgement and forgiveness bits for  you to think about. Feeling sad that the eastern churches are much influenced by the "mega churches" ways of the west, which is also affecting the African churches. 

The main problem in CCC is not the debts. Only God can restore it because our wonderful Lord can make All things good, like the way He is making something beautiful out of our redeemed lives. 

Pray for the many who were hurt and still are hurting.  Still learning and changing and being transformed by His Holy Spirit, prayerfully,

Response #6
This was sent in by an ex-Calvarite. It is a perfect divinely timed reminder to Pastors who have visited the CCC and were awed by it.

From: Daily Proverb
Date: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 4:00 AM
Subject: Proverb for Tuesday, September 3 (3:31)

Proverbs 3:31
Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.
Sin seems to help some get ahead, but it is a lying illusion. Do not be jealous of those who appear to prosper by taking advantage of others, for they shall soon be brought down (Pr 3:32-35). Do not use any of their manners or methods, for they are the tools of fools.
 Those that oppress others – afflict, dominate, or torment them – are in trouble with God. Such men are froward, and they are an abomination to God; such men are wicked, and they are cursed by God; such men are scorners, and they are scorned by God; such men are fools, and God shall shame them. But He will bless gentle and kind men (Pr 3:32-35).
 Overbearing and presumptuous men may succeed for a while, until God and men take back what they stole by their oppressive ways. Foolish men are impressed by the strong-arm tactics and apparent success of these tyrants. They are deceived thinking such methods are manly and efficient – the way for the strong to survive and prosper. But God inspired the rule here – do not envy such men (Pr 23:17; 24:1,19-20; Ps 37:1,7-9).
 Neither should you adopt their manners or methods. It is not enough to despise froward men; you must also reject all their habits and practices. Sin will deceive you by justifying some of their ways, as long as you reject other of their ways. God and Solomon knew this temptation, so they also condemned choosing any of the devices or tactics of oppressors.
 What are the ways of an oppressor? They love to drive a hard bargain, paying less than they should, but charging more than they should (Pr 11:26; 20:14). A righteous man pays a fair price and charges a fair price, especially when the helpless or poor are involved. When it comes to charity, the oppressor neglects the poor and only gives a little grudgingly, but a good man gives generously and is rewarded for it (Pr 11:24-25; 29:7).
 What are the ways of an oppressor? They are harsh and hard on animals, employees, and themselves. But noble and virtuous men are kind and merciful to all three (Pr 11:17; 12:10; 18:23; 29:21). The oppressor speaks sharply, critically, and much, wounding his hearers, but the wise man speaks his few words graciously, feeds men wisdom by his speech, and wins even the king’s heart (Pr 10:21; 12:18; 15:2,28; 17:9; 22:11; Col 4:6).
 What are the ways of an oppressor? They create strife, divide and conquer, look out for number one, and sow discord (Pr 6:14,19; 15:18; 16:28; 26:20-22). But godly men crave peace, work to keep it, and honor others (Pr 15:1; 19:11; Eph 4:3; Phil 2:1-5). An oppressor walks over a starving Lazarus going to his fat table, but he ends up in hell (Lu 16:19-23)! Diotrephes may cast men out of the church, but he will pay (III Jn 1:9-11).
 What wisdom can you learn? Rather than envy oppressors in the world, whom God abhors, envy the righteous, with whom God shares His secret (Pr 3:32). Choose the ways of the godly and earn favor with God and men (Ps 37:37; I Co 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17; 4:9). God measures the heart and actions of every man, and let Him find you helping others.


Anonymous said...

The SP is so desperate to get his former 'sheep' back that he has to resort to extending 'forgiveness' and placing a 'curse' on those who do not attend the Celebration. LOL. That is indeed a mark of a desperate man. Don't be fooled ex-CC and axed CC members. This is just a ruse to milk more money from you.

Son of the Morning

Anonymous said...

2,000 of the current sheep in CC will not be enough to pay off all the debts incurred. Hence, need more 'sheep' ie. suckers to lend a hand.

The sheep will be slaughtered and turned into Lamb Chops. Just watch and see.

Son of the Morning

Anonymous said...

In my 2009 Dream , I saw a Secular Building bearing the name " Calvary Church " sinking into the DARK DEEP Ocean !
I also saw many Peoples TRAPPED inside the building SCREAMING out loud for HELP as they were Drowning !

How to DISCERN and Interpret this Fearful & Horrifying DREAM ?

This was Posted on June 28, 2013 at 11:59 AM

It is SAD to note that the NECF and many Pastors still could not SPIRITUALLY Discern the above DREAM ?

It will be extremely FOOLISH for ANY EX-Calvaries & their Families to go back to CCC and get DROWNED Spiritually ALL Over Again !

In the Spiritual Realm, the Secular CCC was and has become an " Enemy Stronghold " !

The " Spiritual Strongman " must be BOUND on Earth as It is BOUND in HEAVEN !

In the Secular Realm will the 2 BANKS place CCC LOANS under " NON Performing Loans "category in 4 months time ?

Anonymous said...

So NECF and pastors are saying that, Once a project is started in God's name, the whole world looks on. Rightly or wrongly...

So from now on any pastor can start building his dream church and then tell everyone since it is started in God's name, the whole Christian community must chip in to pay for his project.

Well NECF has endorsed this so smart pastors better start their building project. Make sure it is bigger than CCC because if you can complete it - squeeze, cheat or borrow but make sure it is started in God's name and completed by borrowings is ok. NECF will get the whole nation to help you pay for it because it will make us Christians look good.

Well done NECF!

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at September 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Anonymous said...

All the years I have been in Calvary Church, I have NEVER heard a call, an encouragement by the pastors to be part of, attend the prayer meeting of the churches in Malaysia during the period leading to Merdeka Day. In fact it would appear that all things were done by the pastors to prevent Calvary members to be part of the Church of Malaysia. Calvary church only looks after her own (pastors) interest. It appears that nothing has changed all these years. Opening CCC for the Prayer Celebrations is not so much of wanting to be part of and be concern of what's happening in our country but rather it is for personal agenda of the pastors, in particular, the senior pastor. I wish this is not the case but experience tells that this is so.

Anonymous said...

Today's churches are all about GREED & POWER especially the mega churches like CCC and City Harvest Church, they are not ruled or runned by God, but by "men". These men called themselves "pastors" but they don't have the MIND OF CHRIST. All their preachings are in vain, and some of the so called testimonies by some members on how they have been blessed by their giving to help CCC be debt free are no testimonies at all. Why? because before they give, they should first asked themselves, CAN AN ALL POWERFUL GOD OF THE BIBLE be in debt in the first place??. The simple reason that CCC is in big debt spoke LOUDLY that the building was NEVER a call or vision of God to build. God only builds the inner men to speak forth His Word to others, its NEVER His will to ask for your money to build mega churches. This is a simple biblical truth, yet many so called 'christians' cannot even understand it, but they would rather listen and obeyed every word these "callous" pastors tell them to do.

And this NECF thing is nothing, for many of their agendas and the things these pastors did are contrary and not in line with the Word of God. They failed to safeguard and protect the hurtful ones who have been spiritually abused by church leaders. Have they warned against and highlighted abusive leaders like SP and his crony pastors of Calvary church??.

Truly, many of us are disgusted with the scenario of todays churches and those church organisations. So disgusted, that the best to do is to go back to the "true worship" of the New Testament period, with the "house worship".

Anonymous said...

So we need to pray for every pastor and not to help satan destroy them by either making them fall into sin, or make mistakes big and small, or expect them to be superhuman. We will not spread negative stories about them. Let God deal with them. We can only advise and pray. If truly in the wrong, God will judge because a pastor holds a greater responsibility and face a greater judgment. We are called to pray and not be the Judge. Even when action has to be taken, do it in love not in spite.
WHEN TIBET WAS ANNEXED BY CHINA- TIBETeNS DID NOT TAKE UP ARMS BECAUSE THE DALAI LAME GAVE A SIMILAR SOUNDING MESSAGE LIKE THE ABOVE TO ALL TIBETANS.(Except you insert the Word China in the Pastors Letter)Sai Baba a Swami of India said the same thing to his followers in reference to India's border conflict with Pakistan

It all sounds so spiritual.Further,a Pastor has written it.But that statement is not complete.So pastor,you left out a little bit of info about yourself- which denomination are you from? I think a non-AOG would not have bothered about writing this letter.You seem very concerned.Have you visited anyone who was axed from CC? Dr. Lum?

This Pastors message will be very much loved by every convicted criminal,murderer,kaki samum,wife basher and conmen in this country. We must never judge-just pray and leave it to God. Wow!!! Fantastic Gospel!!(Similar to message of The New American Gospel)

So Pastor,your letter ...."We must forgive the wrong doer and if he is repentant we must help to restore and to control damage because the real enemy of the Church,satan, seeks to destroy His church.

Forgiveness only flows from a spirit of repentance.

I do not think your words are going to help bloggers here.This is the spirit of todays AOG pastors.They never admit the hurts they cause to others but talk about forgiveness.

On a final tone- This is the first time in CC's history that it has opened its doors to other churches. During my time-CC was not too happy when we went elsewhere- including when Morris cerullo was in town.


Personally, I have dismissed you as another Joker from the AOG Pentecostal Circus.

Grace & Peace be to you.

Anonymous said...

Unless PG called back those 400+ sacked Calvarites, he has no right to preach the subject "Forgiveness"

Tell me on what legitimate grounds that these ex-Calvarites were sacked in the first place? Not even any Domestic Enquiries being conducted.

Anonymous said...

From the comments of "Letter from a pastor", he must be a young man who lacked spiritual maturity and experience. Trying to be wise he make himself looked spiritually foolish with comments that lacked spiritual wisdom. This is someone who does not know his bible at all.

CC pastors fell into sin by their own doing by committing spiritual abuse against its own flock. It is plain stupid of this 'immatured pastor' to suggest that others had caused them to fall into sin. Its absolutely clear without any doubt that I and and any right thinking christian boldly state that the FINGER OF GOD points to SP and his pastors for they have sinned against Him. I would not be wrong to say that some of the CC pastors knew that, but for fear of their peers, kept silent. As for those callous members in CC who still support and do not think the CC leadership had done no wrong, and had an attitude of could not care less for others who are hurt, then their so called work for God or the Evangelism Team work would not honour God at all.

And if all those 'callous pastors' cannot understand that the act of 'forgiveness' part lies first on CC pastors, then they have failed to heed and understand what 'righteousness of God' is all about.

Anonymous said...

the problem with people like you all frm what i read at this blog is a pastor is your pastor only if he agrees with you.
if not then he is a bad pastor.
open your eyes la... as long as there is a group
of people there must be a head. and all must follow the leadership. yes one man. if you dont like that one man then you go to a church that you can fit in.

i realy thought only women gossip but man the poison you all spew is killing.

some advise since you think that necf has conspired and all pastors too....
why not the 400 ppl that left, stop moaning and complaining and start your own church in dsara heights to calvary there is a group of methodists meeting on sunday in one of the bungalows. you guys can do the same what you can do rtott (reverse turn off the tap)

Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at September 11, 2013 at 5:24 PM

Anonymous said...

i realy thought only women gossip but man the poison you all spew is killing.

you dont like that one man then you go to a church that you can fit in.
a comment on the above.
HA! HA!How do you know that only man write here.Well -whoever you are - I was a long time member at CC and I am not a man.Its not about likeing or disliking a man.IS THAT HOW YOU ASSESS CHURCH a LEADER? Seems you have a real problem here.


Well- many of us took your advice- we left because financial transparency was lacking- NOT BECAUSE I PERSONALLY DISLIKED THE MAN.IN FACT HE IS QUITE HANDSOME- BUT A SMOOTH TALKER.

On a final note- as long as there are gullible Christians like you around there will be pastors who build bigger and bigger.MAY I PRESUME THAT YOU LOVE YOUR PASTOR VERY MUCH,THAT EVEN THOUGH FINANCIAL TRANSPARECY IS LACKING YOU WOULDNT MIND?


Anonymous said...

(my experience)
Recently a sister who attends another church told me that the church she goes to has a prayer tower where I can spend a quiet moment and it's open everyday.

The next day I went,but when I went to the Prayer Power it was locked. I asked the cleaner lady, as to who holds the keys? She had no clue. I went down to the Registry, and enquired and the following conversation took place.

Me. Can I use the prayer room?
Security: Are you from this church?
Me. No. Just came here to pray for a moment.
S-- You need to register yourself as an intercessor to pray. Are you registered as an intercessor?
Me- No-
S- Then- you cant use the prayer room.

Earlier week, I had been to another church- to find a quiet moment.An aunty with heavy make up-told me - " You need security clearance to pray here"

Me- You need security clearance to pray to Jesus here.??
Church lady- Yes!!(Snappy tone)

Last Year I visited a church in Sarawak- their doors were open 24/7 to anyone who wishes to pray.Welcome.
Here its all about whether you belong to that particular church group or you must be paying your tithes there.

Lastly, I took my Bible and went to a Buddhist temple in Jalan Gasing for a quiet moment. The monks there who saw me reading a Bible did not bother me a bit.They just passed me by without saying a word.


Anonymous said...

I said a prayer for you.

Latest Rambo movie(Missionaries from Colorado kidnapped in Burma)
-after Rambo guns down 4 pirates while on way inside Burma
Angry Missionary ---"Why did you do that? It's this kind of thing that we are trying to change in there"


Its the same with churches of today.It is no secret that churches today are built around their pastors and have very little to do with Jesus love or his teachings.

The members attitude are just a REFLECTION of their PASTORS attitude.Church goers just dont realize that its plain stupid to swallow everything their Pastor tells them on Sunday.

Move on Brother.I attend a church but I would not recommend you to come here as the pastor is strongly opiniated about some things.My family goes there and I just tag along.


Bamboo Conspiracy said...

Dear Editor.......great article and an appropriate title "Callous Pastors and Wounded Sheep".

I was away for a while and only returned home for Christmas and saw the article. My apology for not supporting quickly and bear witness in spirit on what you wrote.

Much has happened in the past one year. I have been much influenced in what is now happening in China, in the Middle East, in Central Europe, in the USA and some parts of Europe in what is called the home church moment.

House church, or "home church", or in Mainland China 家庭教会 (literally "Family Church") is used to describe an independent assembly of Christians who gather in a home.

More information can be obtained here:

This is an alternative form of "church" but it must be founded on sound leadership and supported by a dedicated team of matured Christians to care for the newly saved members.

Whether it is right for you or not is something you have to seek the Lord and hear from him. I will not enter into a debate on the pros or cons because I know from personal experience that this alternative form of church is the ONLY form of church gathering in some countries.

As for my family, we are exploring alternative forms of church meetings and gathering and trusting the Lord to take us one step at a time. Be free in the spirit and let the Lord guide you because He always leads us to green pastures.

Blessed Christmas