Thursday, December 17, 2009

Who Should Christians Give To In Times Like This?

Last Sunday, our Board of Deacons (BOD) chose to continue with the yearly tradition of asking worshippers in Calvary Church to give an APPRECIATION GIFT FOR OUR CHURCH PASTORS for this Christmas season.

Christmas is a season to celebrate the BIRTH OF CHRIST or JESUS' BIRTHDAY. When we say we are celebrating Jesus' Birthday, do we bring a gift for the birthday boy or do we bring a gift for the birthday boy's servants?

This collection for the Pastors was in place of the regular Sunday offertory. By taking advantage of the Christmas season to collect an appreciation gift for the pastors, have we not ROBBED JESUS OF HIS BIRTHDAY GIFT? Or ROBBED the Church of her regular Sunday collections?

One may argue that this is the usual tradition in Calvary Church to collect an appreciation gift for our pastors. However, the BOD should be sensitive to the many financial issues that shrouds the church TODAY. Members are already questioning the BOD in arbitrary decision-making where finances are concerned including unauthorised transfer of funds without members' knowledge and making generous monetary gifts to certain invited pastors without proper due consideration. The BOD has displayed poor financial stewardship and total lack of transparency. Now, in taking up an appreciation gift last Sunday, they have obviously not taken to heart the concerns of church members to the wise use and prudence in managing church funds.

With the fears and uncertainty surrounding our abandoned CCC project and the possible financial disaster looming ahead, the members are unhappy, to put it mildly. Amidst the turmoil and crisis that Calvary Church is in today, we would have thought that our BOD would have been wiser and would have asked themselves, "WOULD A COLLECTION LIKE THIS HELP TO BRING ABOUT HEALING AND RECONCILIATION IN OUR CHURCH?"

While we pondered on this, we remembered an OPEN EMAIL written by a church member addressed to the BOD, which was sent to us last year. We hope that this letter will remind us to be wise with the blessings that God has blessed us with.

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 1:11 AM, a member wrote this Open Email to the BOD:-

The Board of Deacons,
Calvary Church
2 Damansara Endah
Damansara Endah, KL

Dear Board of Deacons,

Re : Christmas Offering for Calvary Church Pastors.

The offering taken at the Worship Service on 02 November 08 for pastors and church workers serving in the missions field is commendable. These Servants of God truly deserved to be appreciated and encouraged with a love gift during Christmas time. We are like wise encouraged by their faithfullness and how they do live by Faith and not by sight in their labour of love for God's work on earth-- the Great Commission.

However, I would like the BOD to review the annual practice of collecting money for Calvary's Pastors as a Christmas -year end gift. The Congregation has been giving generously over the decades thinking, I believe like I did, that this monetary gift was like a annual 'bonus'. However, little did we know, that *everyone of them enjoyed a 13th month pay, which in the private sector is as good as a bonus. (By the way, did the BOD approved of 13th month pay? Is this Contractual?)* perhaps, except the general staff, and some others. Does the BOD know?

Although there is no transparency in the financial management of the church, and non- disclosure of salary scale (even though I had personally asked that it be disclosed during past AGM, of course noted but never ever acted by the BOD) it has been widely known that the salary drawn are very high in particular Sr Pastors. In addition to the high pay, most, including Head of Department enjoy many other perks & benefits too.

The Stipends/EPF/Socso of the Church in 2007 is close to a whooping RM3,000,000 (MILLION) excluding those of the Extended Ministries, which amounted to another RM 500,000 (Approx)

It is very sad to see how these 'leaders' who have already so much still find it appropriate to ask some more from the Congregation. (of course, it is now very difficult to distinguish if's actually the BOD, the CEO of the church, or both, who are outright insensitive to the needs of members. Frankly, many members are themselves financially stretched. And what with the global Financial Crisis to contend with. Under such circumstances It is not unexpected of any caring & loving pastor who heads a church, to show deep concern over the well being of the members in such trying times. On the contrary, we see not only NO sacrifices made, but even there is no let up in their grand lifestyle.

On this point about 'sacrifices' when will the CEO lead by example? Even deacon Patrick who had said secular good practice are adopted by the church, why then measures such as taking a salary cut, cutting wasteful expenses like business class/1st class travel, 5 Star accommodation, housing/car allowances etc, are not activated? Please take a look at how responsible and compassionate, albeit not too many, Government Leaders and Corporate Heads respond--they give rather than receive!

May the BOD see it fit to do the right thing, by not "taxing" (which is the case, honestly) the congregation further with the year end $$$ collection for those who are already more than well-off.

The BOD, however, can rest assured the members will know in their spirit, who God wants them to bless, and surely they will give generously, directly to those true servant & workers who have need, as God enables.

In the meantime, It is imperative that the BOD carry out a comprehensive review of the church's Stipends, Perks & benefits and immediately put a stop to reckless/unjustified spending. The BOD has been entrusted with the role & responsibilites for the finances of the church and thus, must be seen to act with accountablity to GOD, and the congregation whom they represent.

In God We trust,

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Going concern said:

It is like when President Obama made funds availabe to the big banks in America when they were going under and lo and behold the CEOs of these banks paid themselves and executives fat bonuses when the people in USA were suffering.

Our Pastors are like the CEOs of the banks in America rob the people and don't give a care to what the people are going thru as long as their bellies are full. No shame or even remorse from the CC Pastors. They me sick to my stomach to hear them preach every Sunday when they themselves do not practice what they preach!! They go around looking like they are the victims, them and the rest of the crowd who are working in the Church.

Not even in the secular world are we getting loans provided to buy cars or houses or send children overseas for studies. And now worst when most of the companies are doing badly that bonuses and pay rise have been frozen. Fine example DELL, letting go 700 employess and I'm sure some of these employees are Christians.

Have a heart Pastors in CC better still portray Christ and not yourselves if you all call yourselves servants of God.

Disgusted with Calvary Church! said...

A few years ago, one of the leaders ask me for money to be given as a birthday gift to Sr Pastor. Mind you, I was unemployed then. I ask him how much on the average that each person is giving. He says at least RM20. He and his wife were giving RM50. He was collecting from some 20-30 people. He said that other congregations are collecting too. What? I was flabbergasted! If I totalled the average number of people who were giving the money, it would total up to a few thousand or more. I could not believe that instead of helping a poor unemployed person, they'd rather ask the unemployed person to give to a rich pastor. This was outright robbery. In fact, I've never even received a birthday gift of that proportion. I politely told the leader that I do not know Sr Pastor personally and now that I knew it was his birthday coming up, I'd send him a card. The leader looked very unhappy. At another occasion, one of the satelites needed to buy a printer. They asked some of the members of the congregtaion for money. At that time I was still unemployed and they asked me if I wish to participate in the giving. I did not give because I believe that printers and peripherals were supposed to be paid from offerings and tithes. When they needed to get the carpet fixed, they once again approached me for money. I could not understand why a church that had millions would dare ask an unemployed person repeatedly for money! I've been giving my offerings and tithing during months when I worked. Can't they leave me alone when I'm out of a job? Besides, they did not even bother to minister to me spiritually or financially during all my down months. What kind of a church is CC?

A pastor said...

I suppose it is up to members to decide but I do think it is not a good time to do this, especially if an annual bonus is given.

This is not to "boast" but to illustrate an important principle: I do not get a bonus and in the light of the recession, at the start of 2009 I requested not to be given my contractual increment. The reason is simply that I have a "secure job" and others in my church were facing financial struggles.

An increment may have been my right and I believe as did my church leaders and members that I have been worthy of my wages (cf. 1 Tim 5:17-18) but a pastor also needs to set an example in his lifestyle and identify with his sheep. I know my fellow church leaders appreciate my gesture as it made it releases them from a potentially embarrassing situation. It also eases the church budget and allows for extra funds to help others in need.

2010 is coming and while economic recovery is in sight, some members are still struggling so it is time again to make a similar gesture.

I am not advocating that pastors be kept poor (to keep them humble) but in the long run, such gestures go a long way in building relationships and growing the church. God is no man's debtor and will always look after his under-shepherds in his own special way.

Anonymous said...

Turn off the tap! Turn off the tap! (TOTT).

Turn off the tap UNTIL:
1. There is full transparency practised by thre present CC leadership. Likwise, SP and BOD must bear full accountability on all the finances of the church and related entities.

2. The present organisational structure should be immediately reviewed, dissolved and remodelled to block out any possibility of abuse and misuse of power/authority.
3. New and more effective systems of checks and counter checks should be put into place to eliminate any criminal or wrongful intentions to defraud the church.
4. Nominated representatives from TTG should be sworn into various Central Committees with immediate effect. Cleansing of the church should take place fast.
5. Thorough and detailed auditing of all chuch accounts be conducted immediately.
6. SP1, SP2 and his family should resign immediately.

A pastor said...

One additional comment. Something to consider ... not to criticize CC policy or anything like that.... just thinking of the future and sharing as an encouragement... many churches take up a special offering for the poor during Christmas. I think this is a great practice.

In my church we raise funds and regularly take special offerings (separate from our missions budget)for the poor or for special situations. (BTW, my church is small and many live on fixed incomes and we have no millionaires).

We are embarking on a small building project so we can have better facilities for outreach and community work and money is tight and will be tighter but we still plan to have special fund raisers and special offerings in which the money collected will be given away to others and will not got to our building fund (which needs money!)

May seem pragmatic but the reason is simply to keep our members focused on the fact that while we are struggling financially, we must never forget the poor and needy outside the church. Walking in faith often means we need to tighten our belts, and sacrifice for the sake of Christ in order to be generous, and God will bless (2 Cor 8:1-5). It is easy to give out of our abundance but we also need to learn to give out of our lack.

Anonymous said...

Hot Message to SP

Every tricky move you make,
Every promise you break,
Every lie you speak,
Every half truth you leak ...

Chorus:

We will be watching you !
Watching you !

We will be watching you !
Watching you !

We will be watching you !
Watching you !

From The Truth Seekers.

P/S Almighty GOD IS WATCHING you too ! The writing is on the wall. SP.

Anonymous said...

Weekly, unGodly misinterpretations together with deliberate abuse of God's verses and un-Christian actions have been unashamedly exhibited by SP1, SP2, their crony pastors and BOD.

For example, SP1 never missed the opportunity to belittle the TTG, who are appealing for the truth - while quoting Holy Scriptures to cloak him with saintliness.

Yet SP1 chose to ignore the sacred Ten Commandments - Love your neighbours - who include the TTG ! The TTG who are also your fellow Christian brothers and sisters, SP1! He never lets go of TTG bashing, but nowadays he uses remote controlled zombies like other pastoral staff among the various APs. These unGodly sermons are designed to keep us chained to falsehood and blatant lies spewed from the pulpit. Let us not forget the cruel treatment of CC members who were forcibly shut up, remember the arrogance and biasness of their die hard supporters within the AOG hierarchy. The CC congregation have been suffering the agonising silence imposed by this dictatorial Chief unGodly priest (SP). We are purposedly left in the dark, clueless on the
total amount of money collected, on the way that the said millions of ringgit are spent, etc. We are left helpless, stumbling around in confusing circles with loads of unanswered questions - despite the public statement from SP that such information is for memebers within the CC. What information todate, O "High and Mighty" unGodly Priest ? Deafening silence only - besides the deception. Do not test our patience. Enough is enough. The enemy of God should be very well pleased with such a unGodly Priest entrenched within CC, a socalled "fountainhead church" aka "lighthouse church". Our spiritual enemies have burrowed their way, penetrating the very foundations of CC.

Under SP1's leadership, we are brainwashed to worship Mammon! Now we all know why week in, week out, thruoghout the year the emphasis is always on Money, Money, Money !

Why brings us to the question of why we should give "Love Offerings" to these SP1, SP2 and family multi millionaires with ever increasing salaries PLUS statutory two months bonuses PLUS other annual bonuses for his kins (decided solely by SP1, with no say from BOD) ? Should our donations go to buying him a brand new Mercedes ? What about designer clothes for SP1 and SP2 ? What about hiring another three top notch lawyers to fight the lawsuits ? Or pay for luxurious overseas trips (celebrity style hotels, business class travel arrangements, platinum cards, etc) eg six months in USA ? Or are there no other more deserving and noble causes we can donate this Christmas season eg orphanages, retirement homes, the poor and homeless ?

Conclusion: SP is no saint!

Anonymous said...

We realy do sympahtise with you dear Brother "Disgusted". The CC that we all once knew and loved is most unfortunately no longer the same church now. It has grown into a cult organisation under a greedy pastor who worships money, money, and more money.

Years ago, when we first joined CC, we heard from our friends, even among non Christians, that CC is "famous as a richman's church" ! So of course you can understand how the allegedly very well paid pastors are totally out of touch with the poor and unemployed members among the congregation. With and under CC's current leadership, it's a "case of too bad, so sad" if we are made jobless, financially poorer, etc because we won't fit into some of the jetset super rich social circles who seemed forever boasting about their oveseas trips/holidays, their fitness gym trainers and sessions, their golf resort vacations and scores, their shopping trips abroad, and other sickening mundane details etc.

But take heart, there are still some caring people among us. We shall pray for you and family.
Jesus knows and loves you.

We were also jobless once before - and no Calvarite leaders even bothered to help or even asked, like your case. So rely on Jesus, not hypocrites going around enriching the super rich. Such pure moronic nonsense always happens in CC, perhaps in other churches.

In God we trust, not some greedy pastor and his blind underlings !

BOD's Poor Stewardship said...

It is most unconscionable that BOD can still ask for special love offerings for SP, SAP and pastors in CC at this time when so many sensitive monetary issues are unresolved in CC... Further it is not that such issues are new but in fact they have been outstanding for the past two years.

BOD are still as blind and insensitive as ever to the feelings of suffering and financially drained members, they are still playing dumb and acting under the spell of SP and his oppressive leadership style!

Fine.. if there are still some rich and loyal members and strong supporters of PG, BOD can approach them privately to give their generous gifts to PG, PG2 and pastors BUT to openly ask for love offerings from the pulpit and instead of giving to more deserving poor pastors and ministers and/or poor and needy families BOD are again lining the big fat pockets of PG and family!

Do they call this wise Christain stewardship? Will God be pleased with this kind of attitude and wrong priorities? Isn't this coveteousness and greed on the part of PG and family?

Instead they should be the first ones to say that "there is no need to give any gifts to us but to save the gifts to be given for God's work." Will they ever say that this is enough for themselves, let us give back to other urgent needs?

BOD start leading by being good Christian stewards of CC funds and godly examples to CC members and others. Please stop playing games with CC funds... you are fully accountable and responsible to GOD and to CC members and worshippers.

YEAR IN YEAR OUT said...

TOO LATE, $$$ INTO POCKETS.

This is outrageous! Despite having 'pocketed' over the years, there is no stopping these "CARNAL PASTOR"-- Good times or Bad times, to them 'Self comes first'

Now as I recalled, the "announcer" assoc Pas or a deacon would said in the sales pitch, something to this effect:" Since, we know many of you may want to buy Sr Pas gifts individually, it's better to give a love offering collectively...."

So, nothing will change as long as PG & his Yes Men Pastors & BOD stay.

Santa Claus said...

Not just 13th month bonus but also 2 months gratuity. Ask deacons if true. So one year 15 months pay, if RM25,000 plus RM10,000 = RM35,000 multiply by 15 = RM525,000 a year. Some more Christmas gift! Some more love offerings and presents from loyal followers!!!

easy tax free money said...

Hey Santa Claus, let's not calculate on guesswork but facts. The fact is 13 mths salary is guaranteed.

So one year 13 months pay, if RM25,000 (PG1) plus RM10,000 (PG2) = RM35,000 multiply by 13 = RM455,000 a year earned by a couple who is way way way past retirement age. Some more Christmas gift! Some more love offerings and presents from loyal followers!!!

You understand now why PGs always condemn TTG. With this kind of income, 10 top notch criminal lawyer also can afford to engage. Not enough money, just turn offering for God money to offering for PG - easy money and tax free.

Anonymous said...

A ringgit given to PG is a ringgit too much. That is all I can say.
Albert

Can't Give Up said...

So we can understand why it is literally impossible for PG and PG2 to give up their SP and SAP positions in CC.. that is why they are hanging onto their posts for dear life!

That is why TTG is a nuisance to them and are called a bunch of trouble makers!

Sad to say BOD are also so hopelessly blind and dumb despite being so qualified academically and/or holding important secular posts or entrusted with business acumen...some more so adamant to protect PG and PG2 even to the extent of losing their own reputation and integrity. Most irrational behaviour!

We just pray and hope that one day the truth will wake them up and their hearts are convicted or someone from the inner circle will come to his or her senses to confess and to tell the truth, nothing but the truth, and further ask God for forgiveness openly... till then we shall persevere to pray for God's intervention.

MONEY TALK said...

Salary still a SECRET?

At a lunch function this afternoon,
my husband was told by a trusted 'elder' that PG draws RM30,000 & and PG2 RM15,000 monthly, respectively.

However, until this day, the BOD has promised to "look into it" but remain elusive will NEVER DARE to reveal the Salaries in Black & White! With all the PERKS & ALLOWANCES of all kinds( double car maintenance, Housing, Holidays, Medical, Dog food etc,etc added up ) the G's up-keep is over a Million combined.

Any wonder why the Church stipends(salaries) account for over 50% of its expenditure?

RECOLLECTION said...

GIVING ala PG STYLE

Bible told us to give without boasting, and not even let your left hand knows what your right hand is giving!

YET, if those who were at the service at Bukit Jalil few years ago,would have witnessed how PG made a BIG SHOW of his giving to CCC--how dramatic, breaking of the 'Alabaster flask', and then have Steven Kum confirming the amount. (repelling!)
Little did he realised, many had expected he would sell his Bungalow--because his leading-up/buld-up to the announcement suggested as if he was giving all, so it was really ANTI-CLIMAX!

And then, he asked everyone to GIVE their ALL--sell house, cars, empty the Savings... What a CON job.

Misplaced Trust said...

We all know that PG is a good showman...all talk and no real action.

PG acts it up so others will be stirred in their emotions and will give sacrificially BUT for him it is just giving of his several months income ... PG said jokingly he could still help carry PG2's bag and he will be fine.

After all PG2 still has fat salary every month, now we understand why! Many families don't have combined income of RM15,000.00 per month so what kind of sacrifice and giving is that anyway? Furthermore, every expense is taken care by CC administration so there is hardly any concern to them.

PG and PG2 have no heart to think about the poor local pastors in the interiors of Sabah and Sarawak who have to live on monthly incomes of less than RM500.00 per month. Are these any lesser servants of God who are caring for God's sheep in the remote places of East Malaysia? Yet these dear people never complain or give up on their calling in such dire conditions.

We would certainly want to give to these worthy servants of God and their families for this Christmas season.

BOD should be asking for love offerings for these kind of giving and caring pastors and workers not the rich, most well fed, comfort loving and spoilt pastors in CC, especially the SP and SAP! What misplaced trust and respect by BOD.

EQUALIZER said...

To ... Still a mystery, It's There, ENLIGHTENMENT..etc

Thank you for your response! Well in that case we need to unravel the Mystery in quick time. Sep 09 Connect says Cost $150 Mil, Used $28M Need $122M, Asset backing ???.."Loans & Cash" Available $55M(Tricky Crap..could be $1k Cash - $54.99M Loan from mortgage) , "EXPECTED" Church Fund Surplus $26m(EXPECTED!!??). Only need $41M?? We then need to test the "strength" of Surplus Cash & Available Cash & Expected Cash. Lodge the interim order to chooke it. Then sit back and see how quick and fast Tan Sri and team lodge another order to lift it. The speed is the "SIGN"! Then you negotiate what can be lifted and disburse with condition of GL Book opened. Then watch builder, BOD, Law firm, Tan Sri sweat...During Negotiation phase you can easily see the figures of how much is REALLY Left in CASH..(Not Crap like Loan&Cash, Expected Cash Surplus.....ha ha ha ha)!! If they do not allow you to see the GL Books, then tell the judge to reject the lifting because this Church is trading insolvent or Bankrupt and Creditors at the door!! An interim order can reveal lots of Mystery!. "Berani kerana Benar, takut kerana salah" so the malay proverb goes!! In the construction Industry No Money - No build!!...Its Show me the money world. There is no need to quote bible verse in the construction industry to say STOP Work! Where is the money?? In the Calvary Church world it SHOULD have said STOP, this will Bankrupt US!! Instead it WAIT, there is more Magic and Miracle to be seen.....just give & believe. Like those USA TV Commercial!! Right now the construction company have started laying Off workers thanks to CC, Tan Sri, BOD and blind members. Who is going to feed their family??

Ha ha ha is this the allege Tan Sri consultant?? From Malaysia Today??.....I think he will be lying low and will ask Tan Sri to stop bothering him....

http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28975:and-what-do-we-say-of-this&catid=22:the-corridors-of-power&Itemid=100085

Bring them ALL on. To force the Tan Sri Team to start cracking a bit is by forcing them to use their own money. Lodge the Interim Order to stop disbursement of monies in any shape or form until the AGM, EGM matter is resolve. At the rate the Malaysia Judicial systems is clearing its docks....You now have the opportunity to force those arrogant people into humble negotiation/submission room/table and exit strategy. Lets see how long can these Law firm be engaged without being paid. This case can drag on for more than 6 months if the previous TRAC Methodist Church problem is a guide in High court matters. Go dig Methodist Church Malaysia TRAC Fiasco a few years back(Theirs also related to EGM & AGM & someone's ego backed by a team of cronies & Bishop vs Team B...fyi). Meanwhile to all Calvary and Ex-calvary, are you ready for moral, prayer, financial support for this TTG group, be on-call to fill in the gap where there is still holes. Who does tea, greeters, worship, sound, ushers, Sunday School teacher, traffic control, admin, counselling??? All your character assasination writing while nice to read is not going to dislodge Tan Sri, BOD, Deacons... Lodge the Interim Order to Stop Disbursment of Monies......to be continued

BTW #1...continue to pray for this ALLAH matter before the high court starting on 14 December 2009 ...Ruling Dec 30, 2009

Jonathan Lim said...

Perhaps TTG can suggest a few needy organisations or some particular community plight, with reasonably good governance and advertise a list of some of those here for readers to channel their giving to.

To be sure, giving is the Christian thing to do and whilst we may not agree in giving to a church where funds are open to possible mismanagement, we should identify those who need help and let Christmas mean something to them.

Pay to volunteer said...

That year when the Missions Dept asked for volunteers to go to Johor to help deliver food stuff to the flood victims, I went. When we were on the bus going there, a bag was passed around for us to contribute money for the rental of the bus. Can you believe that? I nearly died!

Anonymous said...

The Silence Prayer..
"In Calvary Church, you are supposed to give money but not supposed to ask how and where it is used."
I therefore will withhold giving my Tithes, Donations and other Offerings until the SP and SAP retire in GOOD FAITH according to the Church Handbook.
One church congregation did just that in Klang and their SP retired on his own. ALL Monies witheld will be given back to the Church once a NEW Spirit Filled SP was appointed to SHERPARD the CC.

1 of THOUSANDS CASES said...

To: Pay to volunteer said...

I really find PG, Assoc Pastors & BOD's ways to SQUEEZE $$$$ from every member at EVERY Opportunity (including doing Volunteering work!) so,so, sooo, DISGUSTING.

How could their conscience, if they ever have any, do what they do--enjoying all the WORLDLY pleasures, pay LIP SERVICE to the Christian values, at the expense of the people/members' Blood, Tears and Sweat-- Money & effort?

THEY OUGHT TO SEND PACKING!

AT POINT BLANK said...

WHAT DO PG1 &PG2 REALLY DO ?

1. their "VISITATIONS" are not to the sick,poor & needy BUT all the favorites Spots in the SHOPPING MALL in KL (not discounting their OVERSEAS travel)--Gourmet Groceries, Fine Dinning, Beauty parlours, Gym & Spa, luxury Shopping

2. their "JOY" are in JACUZZI & MASSAGE,
Not doing Kingdom's Work. And they take or rather STEAL time from work to do these escapades.

Now, before The BOD stand at the Pulpit to make any "Baseless accusations of malicious allegations"
announcement, please ask PG1, PG2 and all the Assoc pastors first, if these are not TRUE as we are taught : Let your YES be YES, and Your No, be NO. ( don't give excuses or stupid rationalisation like PG needs to relax, or PG2 is over '6Oyrs' do you expect her to still serve)

QT for CC leadership said...

Terrible hypocrites...PG, pastors and BOD and yet they have no shame to keep using the pulpit to preach the Word, testify and promote their worldly agendas.

Despite all the glossy paintings and expensive looks and seemingly innocent cover-ups we notice that God's presence and glory is no longer in CC.

In previous years CC leadership would have been busy with Christmas presentations at Bukit Jalil or National Stadium... Singing Christmas Star or Christmas Tree but all that is histroy now, this year it is a quiet time of planning next step to strategise on CCC building plans and how to survive through and how to hang on there for CC leadership..

What has happened to God's kingdom work?

Where is the true meaning of Christmas?

Where is true worship?

Long Suffering Sheep said...

" Pay to volunteer"
Come to think of it, they charged for song Sheets & Practice Tapes, etc when we were in any choir or any church play, too.

It's always PAY, PAY,PAY + GIVE, GIVE, GIVE, policies of PG, which are religiously carried out by Assoc Pastors, & Dept Heads.

Yeah, you know what's amazing?--that they didn't charge you for being accepted as Volunteer. Thank God, they have "overlooked" it.

Also, it's Amazing, how BOD can allow FREE FLOWING SPENDING & CLAIMS make by PG, and how they are so "generous" to themselves, not to mention the "YUN-WONG CHIN" (sacrificial Money from Members) on Consultants fees by the tens of thousands and Millions in the case of CIM & CCC respectively.

Yet, they will insist we pay every SEN out of our own pocket for what would rightly be out-of- pocket expenses undertaken by the church for its programmes which have alloted budgets.

Goodness me! can't be wrong to say under PG's rule it's just pure Money Minded.

Upside-down said...

Are you people hoping that the BOD has guts to speak-up? That's really wishful thinking.

Don't you know PG is the CHAIRMAN of The BOD?

Why like that eh?- a sr. pastor also have executive powers, (servant play Master?) no wonder, he is so daring.

no wonder, all the deacons have no say, or can't say, or won't say on anything. So, it's PG say all the way--no wonder, PG always said leave if you don't like 'my way', and he always get his way.

Now i understand what they mean by BOD is 'Rubber Stamp' only.

no wonder, the Members get 'stamped' all over, all the time.

I feel so sorry for the Members, don't you?:(

Anonymous said...

All this yabbering is not going to affect the bunch of crooks in CC at all. It will just be raindrops dripping of their backs only. What happens when income drops in a corporation? Panic arises. But income hasn't dropped. It just went where it is rightfully deserved. Any further giving will only add to their coffers. CC is not going to crash when funds are not coming in. God will see to that. But the blatant crooks will when their devious schemes to plunder and make themselves rich screeches to a halt. Jesus expresses His admiration for the widow who gave just three little copper coins. For some of us, those three little coins meant a lot. But while we can still give those three little copper coins, it should rightly go to where it deserves, like put food on the table of some poor soul who might have to go to bed hungry and cold or a father who might be wondering where his next job is coming from. As for the crooks concerned, it is time for them to melt their own fat, not only for the Chrisrmas season but for all the future time to come. Crooks are likened to rats, when their source of food is running thin, what do they do? They will just scurry off and look for a new source of supply. But unfortunately, the pest terminators will be waiting for them this time! So my advice to you all is, why make yourselves so miserable? When you know that all your contributions are being abused, what do you do? Just stop giving to CC and redirect it to where it deserves, like that poor pastor who CC unashamedly compelled her to survive on just RM 280.00 per month!!! The ones who should be miserable are the crooks themselves, period!

Anonymous said...

Regular worshipers for 25 years...

I fully agree with TTG efforts:
A))It's time to unite in our common quest for truth, transparency, good governance, stewardship and accountability in our broken and hurting Church. Until the above goals are achieved, this is what I can do:-

1. Stop Giving to Calvary. Trust in the Lord of Hosts 's Guidance.

2. Pray. Pray for God's forgivessness and cleansing of our Church as a body for all the injustice, unethical practices and bad stewardship that we have condoned or been blind to over the years.

servant of the cross said...

In this case there is apparently no end to their want. Give me, give me, give me is their motto.

Jesus warned in Matthew 7:15-16, 'Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.'

Wolves produce bad fruit. They do not display the fruit of the Spirit in any kind of consistent way and the people who follow them tend to become like them -- self-serving.

Romans 16:18 -- For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly (Physical want), and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Anonymous said...

Should leave CC earlier...


I had been in CC for 10 over years and could never receive any spiritual food because CC is only good in emphasizing $$$. Since day one, I noticed that , as long as you step into CC, whether bible study, seminars, etc... there were always a collection offering. I tried leaving CC and attended other church, but somehow, I still went back because I was very comfortable after so many years in CC. I knew that I have to make a stand to settle down in a church where I can get spiritual food, therefore, I prayed to God to give me the correct direction whether to leave CC. Immediately after praying, I have never looked back or have the desire to go back to CC. By the way, I am now with another church for 4 years and I have been receiving spiritual food and there is only Sunday collection offering in the church I'm attending.

Anonymous said...

I have stopped giving and am looking for a new church. Now, i do not dare to tell my friends which church i came from. Is ashamed.

Yes, we have to stop giving since there are no TRANSPARENCY.

I BELIEVED THAT THE SP AND OTHER PASTORS ARE getting a LOT IN PAY, PERKS, BENEFITS ETC, THEREFORE DO NOT DARE TO REVEAL. Otherwise, if ONE have LITTLE WHY SCARE TO SHOW????

Member Since 1980 said...

PLYING on the Ignorant, the Innocent and the Indifferent members to continue their deceit
and
EXPLOITING those who fear the Lord, to succumb to
their scheming and manipulation..
are what PG & PG2 do BEST and EXCEL in.

But Praise God! for HE has set apart discerning Members to expose their ungodly deeds.

Anonymous said...

Belivers should not be intimidated by any Preachers. You are the redeemed of the Lord.If the Holy Spirit nudges you within- move on with boldness.You dont owe anything to these big mouths-but we owe the Lord everything.Bless you all. Dont fear man- fear the Lord. Cains Brother.

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