Tuesday, January 25, 2011

CCC: God’s Vision or PG’s Vision?

The latest issue of Calvary Connect carried an interview with Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG). On the challenges faced by the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) project he said:


“Our building project is a faith project. It is for the advancement of the Kingdom of
God. It is a huge project. It is not surprising nor is it unique that we should face
many challenges.


In my knowledge, all building projects encounter challenges, especially church
building projects because we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the
rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against
the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 6:12). There are some
churches that have gone through much more serious problems than what we are
facing.


Plans can change but vision does not change.”


What a sweeping and completely untrue statement! He is blaming the difficulties the project is facing on the devil. He is also insinuating that the failure of the CCC project is somehow related to the crisis in the church which was caused by the devil. This thought has been so implanted in his staff’s minds that some of them have, in fact, been telling the members that the TTG are evil. 


To set the record straight, the CCC project was not one of the TTG issues. TTG was concerned about the lack of truth, transparency and governance in Calvary Church. Without doubt, these shortcomings are also in the CCC project but the TTG did not fight against the project. None of the resolutions put in by the concerned members at the previous AGM and EGM relate to the CCC project.


Today, the lack of transparency and accountability had gone from bad to worse. The members are not told anything intelligent but are given mere snippets of information which require piecing together like a jig-saw puzzle which remains incomplete and still a puzzle to all.


Coming to PG’s statement…..


“Our building project is a faith project…”


If indeed, the CCC is a faith project :


Why does PG need to resort to constantly preach the prosperity gospel and reminding the members that they must give in order to receive blessings? 


Why does he need to persistently persuade the members to fulfill their building and faith promise pledges? 


Why does he need to mortgage the church properties to the bank to raise some money to fund the project? 


Why does he need to tell the members that he is prepared to sell some prime church properties if the project runs short of funds? 


Why does he need to cajole and almost literally forced the leaders and members to sell paper bricks, dinner tables, funfair tickets and golf games to the outside world to raise money?


In so doing what he has done is, he has given the world the impression that our God is a poor God and He is unable to raise the funds from within the Christian community to build His own church building.


But our God is a rich God! If the CCC is His vision, surely He will open the windows of heaven and pour out His blessings and the CCC will be completed, without a single cent of borrowing. And no devil or powers of this dark world or the spiritual forces of evil can stop it! And certainly, not the TTG….


“In my knowledge, all building projects encounter challenges…”


PG’s knowledge is obviously very limited. Not all churches face such challenges like the ones faced by Calvary Church. There may be differences of opinion and a few may even leave the church but many big church projects were completed without such crisis, if it is of the Lord. Notable examples are the Metro Tabernacle, Glad Tidings PJ, PJ EFC, SIB KL, DUMC and Grace PJ. In fact, one of the churches even told the members not to give anymore to the building fund because they have collected enough and were encouraged to help out other churches. This is what happens when a church walks in the will of God and carries out His vision according to His ways.


It is so convenient for PG to blame the devil. He is giving the devil too much credit. If the failure of the CCC is the work of the devil, then the devil must have made PG appoint a freemason as the architect and an almost bankrupt company as the main contractor. These are the two main causes for the difficulties and challenges besetting the CCC. However, the fundamental reason could likely be that CCC was not God’s vision but PG’s vision.


"Plans can change but vision does not change.”


It is surprising that PG could make such a statement when the CCC is, in fact, his third edition of his vision. Maybe his age has affected his memory, after all, he has gone way past his retirement age.


Vision No. 1 was the Sri Hartamas land (near the new Agong palace) back in the late 80s. Those old enough would have remembered being shown a video clip with PG walking the length and breath of that piece of land and claiming it because God had given him a vision of the new church on that land. However, just before the signing of the Sale and Purchase agreement, the land was sold to someone else. The vision he so proudly proclaimed vaporised into thin air just as quickly as it came and it was quietly forgotten. Then arose a fresh vision for the present Damansara Heights site.


Vision No. 2 was to buy up the surrounding bungalows, tear down the existing sanctuary and build a new church on the Damansara Heights site. He claimed this was a new vision from God. The church bought up 7 or 8 bungalows but failed to buy up all the units in the island. Still, he felt the church could go ahead with what they had. Some preliminary planning approvals were given by the authorities and things looked really good. A lot of time, effort and money were spent. His vision of a 5,000 seat church was incorporated into the preliminary design and drawings presented to the congregation. Again he could not clear the final hurdle and the project was abandoned.


Vision No. 3 is the current CCC project. He originally wanted a piece of land in KL and not Selangor. Finding none, he settled on Bukit Jalil. The CCC project has been shrouded in lies and deception from the start. For the full story, check out the nine previous postings under “Calvary Convention Centre”.


He would not be able to finish the grand CCC monument that he initially planned. The cost has escalated to more than RM250 million from the original quote of RM50 million despite scaling down on the original specifications.


With what the church has in the coffers and a secured bank loan of RM35 million, he can only put up the main structure and the roof to stop the site from further deterioration and corrosion. He would need to sell church properties worth RM40 million or borrow another RM40 million and collect more building offerings to make part of the main auditorium usable.


Today, he hopes to complete enough of the structure to have Sunday services in the CCC. He has deferred the construction of the rest of the planned development like the classrooms, offices, recreational halls, subsidiary chapels etc.


To him, this would be proof that it is God’s vision. This is not necessarily the case. Man’s pride and self-will can accomplish much but “Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it.”


Can it be ready for his grand show at the Pentecostal World Conference in 2013 planned to be held at the CCC? Possibly, if undiscerning church members and visitors continue to be ignorant and make sacrificial giving to the church.


Assuming the partial completion of the auditorium is achieved and is useable, what looms ahead is even more daunting and frightening. How will the church be able to service and pay off the RM35 to 75 million loan? The offerings alone will hardly be sufficient to maintain the facility. The danger of the bank foreclosing on the property eventually is real. But by then, PG will probably be enjoying his retirement and his successor (God bless him whoever he is) will need a giant Panadol. This could possibly be the closing chapter in Calvary Church’s history.


PG has misunderstood Dick Eastman’s word of prophecy that Calvary Church is a fountain-head church. A fountain head church is not necessarily an expensive and extravagant church building. Jesus is not interested in buildings. He is interested in people. The obscene amount of money being spent on the building cannot flow out of the church to touch the lives of people. A fountain head church is one from which the love of Jesus flows to touch and bless an ever widening spread of people. Instead of being locked up in brick and mortar, the money could have flowed out of the church to bless the needy, the widows and the orphans and of course to spread the Gospel. 


Compared to other churches, how has Calvary Church let the love of Jesus flow to others? All the church can boast of is an under-funded street ministry, the Sunshine Home providing only day care for a few elderly and one supported full-time missionary. The white elephant Calvaryland project which cost the church some RM8 to 10 million was just another ego trip which could never be financially justified. Another failed vision feather in his cap.


Look at the good works of other churches much smaller than Calvary Church; drug rehabilitation centres, dialysis centres, orphanages, properly funded street feeding programs, other social projects and regular mission trips to the poor and underdeveloped communities in the surrounding countries like Cambodia, Vietnam etc.


A big portion of Calvary Church’s missions giving are directed internally to the “extended ministries” and also used to pay many of the church staff salaries and are not really given away. Whatever little is given away, much publicity is provided so that the congregation will feel good.


Perhaps, it is fair to say that PG started well and that Calvary Church was once a fountain-head church. But sadly, today, the fountain head is now clogged up with dirt and has stopped flowing. Unless, serious efforts are made by the new Board of Deacons to clear the dirt without fear of man, Calvary Church will shriveled up in no time.


A God-given vision shall be fulfilled. It cannot fail. If it fails to be fulfilled, it is because of man, not God. God’s vision can only be accomplished if it is carried out according to His will.


So is the CCC a vision from God or PG’s own personal vision?


Let the Spirit give you the discernment!

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

These 3 SIGNS will manifest itself!(1)How will the church be able to service and pay off the RM35 to 75 million loan?
(2)The offerings alone will hardly be sufficient to maintain the facility.
(3)The danger of the bank foreclosing on the property eventually is real.
(A)It is in the PROPHECY !
For going against the LORD's WILL, PGs's BLIND efforts will "RUST " in due time !
(B)Calvary Church will pay for HER STUBBORNNESS when CCC is finally AUCTIONED OFF to settle her secular DEBTS !

Anonymous said...

official Sanctuary choir disbanded,

after serving in the choir for more than 25 years , i hav been sadly told by chris Lee that the Sanctuary choir has been permanently disbanded...less than 10 choir members show up for rehearsals and only 4 people showed up for rehearsals last week .. This poor turnout is mainly due to the poor leadership of chris lee and the Bullying Style of zoe his assistant. In the past the sanctuary choir had up to 30 members and now its being permanently shut down

i tried to convince chris , we can start a recruitment drive , but he says the low turnot is a waste of his time .....
now that pg's son in law no longer has a choir to lead, is he giving up the choir director'salary .... i bet not

the bible says look to the skies, you can tell its gonna Rain, ttg ask can calvary service RM35 to 75 million loan?
calvary under the pg family , cannot even get 20 pp to sing in their sanctuary choir

BASSIST

Anonymous said...

How can it be God's vision when the CCC was conceived in lies and deceptions.

witness said...

Another question:

The word spoken through a true prophet of God will be fulfilled.
When the Lord gives a vision, word or a dream it will come to pass.
The Lord will move mountains to fulfil His word. So sum up as such

Vision 1 failed
Vision 2 failed
Vision 3 (PG's folly )

Blame on the devil or PG for bluffing the sheep put under his care?

The saddest of all is by wanting to implement his vision 3 which is az folly - he is bankrupting CC.

Anonymous said...

After many months of not reading CT, I decided today to update myself of the more recent happenings at Calvary Church.

What I read truly saddened my heart and gave me grave concern of the direction the church is heading. From the blog and from comments from other people outside the church, I see that the pastors and leaders are continuing to deceive the congregation on many issues for reasons they know best. I am amazed that the congregation is blind to truth. I am most concerned about the new people who are worshiping at Calvary. They are going to be very disappointed when God opens their eyes to the deceit currently carried out by the leaders.

I wait patiently, together with many many other people who used to worship at Calvary, for God to deal with the sins of the current leaders. I say this not because I am angry and wish to see bad things happen to the leaders. I say this because these leaders have no fear of the Almighty God and what God can do to punish them if they do not truly repent. In fact, I shudder to think of what God had done to people in the Bible who dared to take matters in their own hands because they thought they could get away with things.

Many of us who used to worship at Calvary are now happily enjoying the teachings and ministries of other churches. Certainly, in these churches, we see the love of God demonstrated through the members. In fact, I have already become a member of one of these churches and am growing in leaps and bounds. I cannot help it, but when I look back and compare my life when I worshipped at Calvary, I realise that I did not grow there.

I can only speak for myself for saying this, but if the leader or pastor of a church does not seek God about how the church that God has put into his hands is going, then there is no vision and the church will eventually die. I believe Prince Guneratnam is either confused with his own vision as God's vision, or that the vision of CCC is entirely his and his alone.

The day will come when we shall see justice done by God because He is not mocked.

Anonymous said...

Whether a plan is God's will or not, it does not really depend on its success. For example, it is God's will that everyone is saved, yet we know there are more people in hell than in heaven.
We know evil plans do often succeeded in this fallen world.
The key area in evaluating a plan is not the issue of success or failure but the issue of moral and godly attribute. In other word, from their fruit we know their origin. In the case of CCC, can we see godly integrity and moral? The answer is obviously no. Instead CCC portray a Mammon celebrated spirit that even the unbelievers notice. It is a symbol to worship luxury lifestyle without consideration of the needy. It is the monument that glorify the god of money as it boast its ignorance wealth. We see lies, gluttony, cunning schemes, dirty tactics, selfishness, and manipulation in CCC. From cheating the government to cheating the congregation. From manipulating Christian community including Christian society to exploiting the public donor. So it is obvious CCC is not from God even if it is succeeded. In fact, if it is succeeded, it become a great treat toward the kingdom of God. It is like a bad seed that has grown into a tree, that eventually provide a throne for the Mammon to enthroned within the church community as leader.

Anonymous said...

This is definitely a post of the faithless!

Do you think funds will drop from the skies without us giving or doing anything?

Look into the Bible, every blessing that comes, there is someone that gives away something:
1) rebuilding of the walls of jerusalem - people gave their belongings and properties
2) building of the temple of God - people gave their jewelries and valuable items
3) the feeding of 5000 - the boy who gave 5 loaves and 2 fish

Think for yourself! These blessings did not come from the sky!

It is in the giving in which we receive blessings! Not sit down and pray and see the building built by itself!

What an immature group of people! Only know how to tear down, without first looking at how God works!

Time will Tell said...

PLAIN & SIMPLE CASE.

If you get on the news in UK as to what had happened to those *politicians who "cheated" in their Claims for expenses, then it is a thousand times worst with PGs & BOD & ASSOC PS!
(The latest who was convicted in the Court was LORD TAYLOR who was found guilty of DISHONESTY over his GPB11,000 false claim over the years. Now a jailed sentence awaits him.)

Closer home It was revealed here PG has claimed Dog Food under "security", the transfer of Missions Fund to his his Personal CIM Ministry, CARE pass-off as CARED,self-declared benefits for himself & family members--Scholarships, High Salaries, 1st class travel, and the list goes on..

The BOD encouraged it, condone it, and are collaborators all the way. ( Just as Lord Taylor claimed, his Peers encouraged him to make those claims, well, not unlike what PG always said it is the BOD who approved everything done/decision taken
by him! Brilliant!)

There in UK, there is no such thing as :Untouchable Mighty even 'Lords'--here in CC, PG is worshiped as 'god', and all accounts are nicely 'audited' alright, with Official Minutes perfected--so water-tight (so they think) it's no way the truth will surface.(so they believe)

What's the hurry to get to the truth? Their total arrogance, acts of deceit will be their undoing--as the saying goes: their sins will find them out.

No doubt it will be a Dramatic END. It's Just a matter of time.

Keep calm and carry on TTG.

Anonymous said...

"....and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace....'" (2 Kings 22:18-20) "And his servants carried him dead in a chariot from Megiddo..." (2 Kings 23:29-30)

King Josiah's life is an enigma. First the prophecy about him that he would die in peace. The reality was that his life ended tragically at the hands of an Egyptian King. What is the the Bible reader to make out of all this?

Let us examine the situation. God gave the promise of a peaceful ending to King Josiah.In the Old Testament, God is a Covenant keeping God. The New Testament teachings are conditional too.God has provided the atonement for the world. The command? Repent and believe in this message. We can have fellowship with God .The conditions? If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another.."

To grab at promises while ignoring the conditons attached is dangerous. In the 80's many Christians were caught up in the "Confess and Possess" doctrine, only to be severely disappointed.( although the Bible promises many things) Our faith must be rooted in the whole counsel of God. A believer is advised not to select Scriptures here and there and expect God to work.Josiah had Gods promise- but he strayed outside of God's will.And the promise did not work.An Egyptian King ended his life. His life was recorded for a reason.

*&^%$

SML said...

TO : Anonymous January 27, 2011 9:39 PM.

You are rather right in your view. However, you need to take it further in your understanding-- that CCC if indeed, is God's Vision as PG daringly proclaimed to solicit for funds.

PLT, He gave me the answers through His Word from the pulpit of a "biblical based" Pastor, who treads by the Word. The message once again reassure me as one of those in this TTG Cause in CC, how to discern the difference what is of God and what's not.

Consider these Points carefully, EZEKIEL 47:1-12
When it is of GOD:
1. HE will Surely LEAD- every step of the way.
V2-6 Confirmation: it will be PROGRESSIVE (moving fwd)
Sadly, this isn't the case for CCC--
i) completion date keeps shifting for
over 20 years already
ii) master Plan keeps Shrinking--
now just "Shell & core" and ETC

b) V7-11 It will be MEASURABLE by its Fruit
Tragically,this isn't the case for CCC-
i) Instead of Revival & growth, it
plunged into chaos.
ii) stumbled its 'sheep' in CC &
beyond. ETC

c) V12 It will be SUSTAINABLE
Alas, this isn't the case for CCC--
i) CC has to dispose of its Assets and
the Millions of borrowing turn CC
into Debtor ( God forbid!)

ii) failure of its desperate Fund
raising of sorts including by
'commercialism' means.

Beware, there is such a thing as BLIND faith--swayed by the charisma and twisted interpretation and manipulative use of Biblical truth by man for his personal agenda and gain.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous January 27, 2011 9:39 PM,

Manna fell from heaven. Though it's true that we do not expect money to fall from heaven. But if you believe, anything is possible with God. What I read from your post is just fallacy.

I'm bound to agree with Anonymous January 28, 2011 11:46 AM that we shouldn't cut and slice scriptures. The word should be taken as a whole. Consider the context it's being written in and the purpose it was for.

I guess people want to see things their way. For those who believe that the vision of God is to build a fountainhead church through a building, I shan't be in contention with your vision if it is indeed a vision from God. But please do not throw accusation of immaturity at others who do not share in your vision of CCC. An unsubstantiated accusation against people you don't seem to agree with is only evidence of your own immaturity.

Anonymous said...

With many members and worshippers opening their eyes now, CC is on a downhill slide.

At the 8am service on Sundays, the back of the sanctuary is closed. Even then, there are numerous seats unoccupied. Before at the 10:30am service, it was difficult to find a car park and seat in the santuary. But today, the reverse is true. You can also see ushers who serve at 10:30am come in early to help the dismissal at the 8am service.

The collection of the fund raising campaign at the Sime Darby Convention Centre was a failure if you consider the paltry sum achieved against a target of RM35M.

Before there were approx. 2200 faith promise partners, but last week it was announced that there is approx. 1700 partners. Oh my! the comparison was with 2010. What a shame! If the number is greater than 2200, then it is something to shout about.

Offerings and faith collections have dropped. The vision of CCC has shrunk to a shell and financially, there is not enough money.

And now, the sanctuary choir has been disbanded. I had remarked to my spouse some time ago that there were only nine to twelve on stage and without their attire.

Previously, the carpark attendants were from the church. Today, these are paid attendants. I can name at least 3 churches where the attendants are from the church. Likewise, in Singapore.

So, if you look around you will see that there are less voluntary people who are enthusiastic to serve and give cheerfully.

Instead of growing by the day, isn't this a deteriorating situation?

PG is so arrogant that even though his eyes are open he goes round without seeing. He has chose to conveniently forget his roots - neither was he the pioneer nor founder of CC, he was brought in by the members and technically he is an employee and paid by the CC. And abide by the rules of employment. However being a master manipulator he has turn things into his advantage and benefits. But he is now running CC like his own private enterprise.

Anonymous said...

But 1700 faith promise partners are still a lot when it is channel to fund evil. In other words, TTG has not done enough. 1700 members are still being cheated to fuel PG arrogant. I believe even if there is 17, it is still too much. Greater awareness is required this year. Stop the PG, the spiritual rapist!!

Year1970 said...

Giving Willingly.

There is no doubt CC members have been known to give generously and Sacrificially over the decades.

What has really gone wrong is, PG has used these money irresponsibly--wastefully and for personal agenda.

I don't think we who have given freely,can be faulted to ask for Transparency & Accountability from PG and the BOD. After all, its MILLIONS involved.

Case #1.
Calvary Land:Over RM10 Million spent, but it remains a white elephant--for all they boasted,it did not achieve the objectives they told the World!--yes, the World--PG1&2 used it at that time to gain recognition for themselves in their International ministry.

Case#2
CCC, started like a con job from the beginning.
( enough has been revealed here how it got to this stage of over RM250 Million!)

In The PGs' Eyes MILLIONS is PEANUTS!--that's the sad thing. ( they covet the Rich & famous Lifestyle+Celebrity status) and is so used to '000,000

( Sorry, "Anonymous January 27, 2011 9:39" PM" I think The PGs don't give a care how or where the $$$ appear!. Worst still, PG told you & me to shut-up as to how and where he spends it!!!)

To be honest, I hate to say this, but let's admit PG has taken us for a ride!!! But you still buy it--PG's"Give & be Bless" Preaching week in week out?
( Better to know we have been fooled then to be in denial)

Let's learn well.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely true. We have been fooled by PG. Our hard earned money that we reluctant to spend but give it to the church in the hope of the expansion of God's Kingdom, has somehow used to fuel PG's arrogant and fund his advertisement to boast his reputation over other pastors who earn little.
The money that we save by eating little, dare not to buy new clothes, taking cheaper medicine, drive old car and sacrifice even our children future education, has now used to fuel the lavish lifestyle, wayward spending and greedy appetite of PG who has no concern over anyone in the body of Christ. Worse still, he use our money to boast of himself and make him superior over other pastors, gain worldly & useless Tan Sri title and has been a stumbling block to God's revivial by subdue movement of the gospel toward the Malay people. PG, you are not fit to be a Christian, how much less to be a pastor. Even if you succeeded to build your golden calf CCC, do you think your sins will be forgotten without repentant? The angel that stand at the road against Balaam will stand against you...you who also greed for worldly wealth that you have sold godly integrity.

Anonymous said...

We are called to be good stewards. That means looking after and using God's money in an a responsible and careful manner. The millions contributed by Calvary Church congregation had been wasted to bring glory to one man; to boost his status and reputation both locally and internationally. Yes, we had been fooled. We are responsible to see that God's money is not wasted but used to be a blessing.We had failed in our stewardship role. Please forgive us, Lord.

Anonymous said...

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servant of the cross said...

I have not read this blog for months, probably because I an outsider. But what aroused my interest was my recent conversation with a cell’s leader who happens to attend our church camp. She is so confident that PG will be vindicated and that “Noah Ark” like church will be built. There has been much prayer gong on through every home cell against the negativism and “devil’s” attack. This article clarifies many things to the readers.

What have I to say? I am an outsider and have no particular interest in the goings at CC. I just say to myself some Gong Gong (naïve & gullible) Sheep are just there to be fleeced by the pastor.

I just told her, now go in peace to love & serve HIM.

Witness said...

CHOP-CHOP-CHOPPED!

1. Founding Member since 1968--CHOPPED...
2. Member since 1970--CHOPPED...
3. Men's Ministry-- CHOPPED...
4. CW's teacher since 1987--CHOPPED...
5. Cell Leader since 1990--CHOPPED...
6. Royal Rangers Commanders--CHOPPED...
7. Choir Member since 2002--CHOPPED...
8. Communion Servers--CHOPPED
9. Youth Member since 2004--CHOPPED...
... multiply all above hundreds X

These faithful members who dared asked questions or even remotely linked to the TTG crusade were systematically & Ruthlessly removedin 2008, decreed by PG, executed by BOD & all his associate 'pastors'.


The irony of it is that the theme they are 'promoting' right now is "Love thy neighbour as thyself"

Mother of all hypocrisy, PG and all who served him!

Perplexed said...

TRUE CALLING?

Prince G & Petrina G have through the years claimed their children were called to the Ministry. And so
Pam G & JR.G were 'installed' to head Ministries, side-stepping those ahead of them.

They boasted how Pam G & JR.G and later their spouse too, loved the church and what joy it was for them to serve the church as "all in the family"

Fast Forward to 2008. Their deeds were exposed last few years and the cracks showed under the scrutiny they came under.

And so, at first opportunity to escape, PAM G resigned 2010 ( citing personal reasons!) and now happily 'serving' in the secular world of Retailing.

Watch out, soon the spouse is following suit, then next...

Strangely enough, not a word from PG & Petrina G to the Congregation that Pam G's 'original Calling was over and hence moved to the making big bucks elsewhere. !

It does seem, they served as long as the Good Times
lasted in CC--when everything done went unquestioned and it was run like PG's Corporation Bhd. Alas, they can see that their INCOME was not going to be as Big as before--increments, bonus, perks given by 'BOSS DAD' aka SP.

So, can anyone out there please tell me, was there indeed a "Calling by The Lord" or simply PGs decided then, that their children can have it easy-- safe, secure and comfortable in CC? (until recently that is)

Anonymous said...

It is fact that PG has sinned by stealing money from church into his personal account.
It is fact that PG is manipulating the people to believe that CCC is from God. Thus he still has many supporters.
It is fact that many AOG pastors still support him including all associte pastors.
It is fact that congregation and public's money are still being cheated to contribute to him, thinking as it is for charity.
It is fact that PG & other pastors have break the unity in the church by instructing their supporters to ex-communicate those who from TTG and highlight their sins.
It is fact that PG uses the church's money now to buy the hearts of the pastors and people to support him by giving privileges to associate pastors & making some supporters as leaders even though they are not qualified.
It is the fact that the court case goes on and on with so quick solution.
The facts are fact, but PG is trying to erase the record of his sins.
The question is what else needed to be done? Do we merely rely on the court case whileletting PG to continue to cheat public money waywardly? Do we stand here and watch while letting many hurt remained wounded and the arrogant of PG walk about like an roaring lion, preaching lies and deception on the stage of Calvary Church?
The verdict has been done. PG is guilty, but what has been change? Many still cheated by him. Church money continue to be wasted. The body remains divided with many hurt by PG. Something need to be done this year...something drastic that the Pharaoh Guneratnum will tremble at this last plague.

Anonymous said...

Hypocrite, hypocrite!! Best actor of the stage. Ps Steven Kum like PG is hypocrite.
Today he asked us to walk around and shake hand with those around and know their names. Sound so friendly but if he is really interest in bonding the body of Christ, he will not approve the sacking of the 400 members, and let the corruption of PG who has stumbles thousands of Christians including Christians from other churches continue. Hypocrite!! He just play church and pretend ministry. So clever he try to use jokes and point to needs of people, claiming he sense from God. If there is anything immediate and urgent that Calvary church ought to listen from the Lord, it is the repentant of her leaders from corruptions. It is the only thing that stop Calvary church from moving forward. If he cannot hear God on this issue, I don’t believe he hear from the Lord anything at all.
If anyone has an ear to hear, he will notice that the demand of repentant among the church leaders is the most urgent things necessary now. Like Achan’s sins (Joshua 7) that stop the Israelites from moving forward, the whole CC cannot proceed with PG’s sins regardless if CCC is built or not. Btw, CCC is just a building of brick and stone, how can PG preach it is related to charity? Only stupid followers believe it. In fact, CCC is a stumbling block to charity as it consume charity fund into useless boast of individual pastor. In fact, its design is so evilly symbolized, the unbelievers would believe that Christians finally build an idol, and they criticize us for such compromise.
And the theme “Love thy neighbor”.. is another strategic of PG to play church and pretend ministry, trying to show that he loves when the only thing he loves is money. Witness of Feb 04 is right. PG brutally chopped us is no act of love, but an act of cunning snake performance to eliminate those who speak the truth of his corruption deeds.

Anonymous said...

HONEY, I SHRUNK THE CHURCH !
(OMG... HOW THE CHURCH SHRUNK!!!)

Date: February 6, 2011
Time: 8.00 am - 10.00 am
Venue: CC, D. Endah (Mother Church)
Speaker: PSKUM

Anyone looking around his/her seat must definitely be shocked by the very poor church attendance that morning. Walking visitors who are fisrt timers might be tricked into belioeving the lie that the sparsely populated congregation was due to .... CNY exodus (aka balik kampung season)... BUT for cc regulars like us, we know the real truth is far more shocking.

THE REAL TRUTH IS OUR CHURCH HAS BEEN SHRUNK AND IS SHRINKING, CONTINUES TO SHRINK !!!!

Take a good hard look at "before" and "after" effects.

Before, CC appeared dynamic with the various ministries expanding by leaps and bounds - Church Choir, Youth Ministry, Men's Ministry, Kidscat, Chinese Ministry, Bahasa Ministry, Tamil Ministry, Missions Ministry, SCG, Street Ministry, Royal Rangers, Missionettes, etc. The lists went on and on....

BUT now... these same above mwentioned ministries seemed to shrink and shrink and shrink. some even disappeared altogether. One of the latest vitim seemed the Church Choir which was allegedly disbanded by the music director !

Are we members of the cc congregation still complacent, choosing to ignore the sign of the times ? Are we still trying to rationalise and wrestle witj ourselves that even the "annointed" priests can commit sins, against the church, against the congregation, against the community, against the nation.
AND MOST UNBELIEVABLY AGAINST GOD !

Wake up cc members.

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 7, 2011 1:25 PM

Anonymous said...

HOW LOW CAN YOU GO ?

Have you ever noticed the quality of sermons "preached" by the various speakers at the cc pulpit lately ? Don't you think they lacked spiritual "oomph" ? Do you not feel like laughing at with the speakers as they struggled to "relate" with the audience, while delivering meandering, ill prepared, recycled repeated and repeated messages (reminds us of Astro multiple regurgitated broadcasts.) The latest gimmick was to deliver a "sermon" with a touch of stage showmanship (Malaysian Idol style ?) as eviddenced by Pskum who did a spot of magic show by turning his coat bright red (at least part of it, anyway). He also dabbled in horoscope ... during his "sermon" with verses from the song Age of Aquarius. What else will they dish out to the spiritually malnourished cc congregation ? To torture us further, the cc leaders insisted on freezing us with full scale aircond blasts - no wonder we are all wearing coats. No wonder we feel sleepy ... maybe so that we missed noticing the poor and low quality of sermons dished ourt from the pulpits ?

When the people become oppressed, there might be a people's revolution to remove the dictator and his bullying regime. Remember Shah Palavi of Iran, Marcos of Philippines, Sadam Hussein of Iraq,
now Murbarak of Egypt ?

See the writings on the wall, Pharaoh !

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 7, 2011 1:45 PM

Anonymous said...

TRUTH SEEKERS OR TROUBLE MAKERS

Revelation came upon Martin Luther that the Catholic Church under the wrong leadership deviated from God's intended teachings to mankind. The burning desire for God's truth was so strong that nothing stopped Martin Luther from coming out into the open to identify himself as being on God's side, even at the danger of showing his real identity to the persecutors from the Catholic Church. We all know that Martin Luther's actions gave birth to the start of the Reformation Movement worldwide.

Just ponder... What if, Martin Luther listened to the Devil's lies about not upsetting the socio-political structure of the Roman Catholic Church, would the church reform ? Would society continue to suffer under dictatorial, oppressive corrupted church leaders with no bright future in sight ? Is this the life of abandunce tha God promised us all ? Are we prepared to be branded troublemakers by the unholy leaders, knowing that we are the truth seekers. Propelled by this conviction, we aim for justice.

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 7, 2011 2:06 PM

Anonymous said...

BLIND LEADING BLIND

When our leaders get their thinking clouded with irrational emotions and falsehoods, constantly fed by their self appointed admirers, we should quickly "abandon ship" - simply because we can sense the end is near, evidenced by signs put up to warn us all.

Satan in his quest to destroy mankind, has. most unfrotunately for us, attacked Christianity, by having a firm grip on cc's leaders. They are caught in an ever spiralling whirlpool of deception, lies and signs and wonders, spun by the King of Liars. CC is obviously being destroyed from within, layer by layer - by its own leaders. Including the sacking of over 400 members from its own congregation. It is NOT just a number game of 400 members missing from the congregation. That is, it NOT just a QUANTITY, now a great loss to our cc. It is also A GREAT loss of QUALITY. Many among the 400plus form the amin backbaone of the various ministries, They are the most active members, serving the Lord God, in cc. Now they are all "gone" from cc. Is this right ?

The present leadership is like Blind leading the blind, yes ?

Cc's great loss is other churches' gains. How sad ....

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 7, 2011 2:27 PM

S.O.S said...

SKUM in the act too.

Long ago, SKUM has already got caught in PG's WEB.
Only now, its manifestation showed--just observe his talk, his prayer, his demeanour--all points to a man who is emptied of God's love--sold out completely to be used by PG.

The same goes for each and every Ass.pastors. Only, now, there is more power play--with the ambitious 'pastor couple' waiting to step into PG & his spouse shoes. Again, watch closely, they behaved as if they have been cloned fr PGs' DNA

Pray, an end to this --break the grip of the Deceiver in CC

Anonymous said...

According to the great Greek philosopher Aristotle,man is a political and social animal.To safeguard himself from others,man has always formed himself into groups.In primitive tribes resistant members to tribal heads were despatched off ruthlessly to retain control.(not limited to 400)The tribal head is to be obeyed- offend him and you will pay a terrible price.Although man has evolved-It is doubtful if man will ever be cured of this need to belong- to idolize someone-even though he be a Hitler or the Great Rev.JIm Jones.What a blessing when God started the elect church in His Son- now this craving need can be met in God's way- in the risen Jesus.We can all sing freely and clap our hands and worship God--and belong!!But all these can be undone by one kingly ego trying to monopoplize the group.Its all the same.Ancient tribes had babboon teeth tied to their necks to prove their kingship over others. Today they have re-emerged with their hundreds or so fancy titles to flex their muscles.No society has existed on earth who did not develop a heirarchy of titles.(Pope,Dalai Lama,and or course...the local DR.Rev)In the entire N.T-there is no evidence of any one person presiding over Gods congregation and getting paid handsomely $$$ for it.And nobody was ever addressed as a Pastor- there was no such thing as Pastor Barnabas,or Pastor Paul or Pastor Peter.It's all a creation of some sections of the Protestant movement.

Humans will always centre around a person who seems larger than life-- there is no cure for that.Ask the Great Shephard Jesus to guide you.He has been around since the beginning of time- and He has no problem pulling you out of the pit which you may have fallen into.Come out and be free again.Don't be fooled by religious talk.

" You brood of vipers-who told you to flee from the wrath to come?? (spoken to religious leaders)

"The Lord is my Shephard" Psalm 23.

" Christ has set you free-do not be bound again by a yoke of bondage" 2nd Corinthians.

Fr CT @ February 7, 2011 7:25 PM

wikileaks said...

Fountain head church???

Let the truth be known:
It was told when a write-up was needed to launch CCC to 'inspire' the members to give $$$ in support of CCC, the BIG word "fountain head' cropped -up. When the BOD and Assoc pastors present, were asked what it actually meant, NONE could give a definition.

*They resorted to dictionary...tried to concoct something meaningful(all RHETORIC)...and even their attempt to get it from the horse's mouth -PG, drew a BLANK!
*( next time you get a chance to meet any of them, ask what indeed 'fountain church' means)

So much for this "bombastic" description. In truth,
PG used it to "sell" his CCC proposition.In PR terms , 'fountain head' is a SPIN job!

Anonymous said...

To Berita Calvary @ February 7, 2011 1:45 PM,

You are right. Sermons given on Sunday are really bad in quality, especially Pastor Richard...using great word like "Conquer Giant" but no real content. Just surface advertisement without spiritual norishment. The same to all pastors in CC..also obvious is Ps Peter. Everyone who is honest will notice it. A lot of jokes are spoken but zero spiritual food. This is not a matter of skill or knowledge. This is simply because they don't bother to miniter anymore. The fake ministers are now showing their color. They don't really care for the spiritual well being of the sheep anymore. All these years, their motto is fund collection - keep the payers, and encourage them to pay faith promise, and make them believe it is for charity. Every shemes they made are claimed as charity when money is even used to feed their dogs. They are more concern on feeding their dogs with church money than feeding the people of God even without the need of money. If anyone who has lost his desire to minister, they should resign from being pastor. Why still want to stay as pastor but not minister? Obviously for money and fame. But the liquid is drying. The lack of quality is due to the absent of desire to minister. Even many cell group leaders who support PG have no desire to minister. They show the same non-quality leadership, but they are selected as leaders because of their support to PG, not because of their spiritual quality. Another sign of dictator family church. "You support me, i select you leaders"...so these goats selected and they believe their master goat will be vindicated.

furniture business??????? said...

To Perplexed who asked about PG's children's TRUE CALLING?

Just found out that PG's daughter is now in the secular business world doing FURNITURE BUSINESS.

What happened to the calling of helping people with problems through CLM?
PG2 was always so proud that her daughter was doing so well in the counselling ministry. Why the change to furniture business? Shouldn’t PG2 encourage her to hang on in ministry like the father is hanging on in cc?

My thoughts are, CLM's accounts are now monitored by external auditors.

Why furniture business? My guess is CCC is going to need lots of furnishing when it's completed from chairs to curtain and all the equipments.

Any wonder why her husband is not interested in the church choir anymore. He's got a business to run too soon.

Anonymous said...

> Why furniture business? My guess is CCC is going to need lots of furnishing when it's completed from chairs to curtain and all the equipments. <
If Contract-awards to furnish CCC is EVER given to PG's daughter, IT IS CALLED CORRUPTION ! She should just reject it ?

NEXT CHANGE said...

Hello! Anonymous said...Feb 9 2011 12.30pm.

"Corruption"? You bet should this happen the PGs already have a way to explain themselves for this 'coming soon' transaction--just like every time when they are queried by those for the TTG Cause.

Or by that time, they are all out there "BIG Time" successful business men & business women--and they can count on the his groomed/handpicked BOD and 'pastors' to hand them the Contracts--Perfect arrangements. ( Oh, btw, PG was known to have said :"You know, if I'm not a pastor, I'd make a very successful business man--better than Tan Sri K!" . See, PG certainly has Vision--coming to pass soon.

Anonymous said...

Worshipper for 25 years say ...

(1)PGs should "JUST LET GO" and "RESIGN in Grace"!
(2)By Prayers & Supplications, Associate Pastor Timothy should take over to Restore CC DIGNITY !
(3) A new BOD should be appointed!
(4)Let's Fast and Pray for Wisdom, Peace & Tranquility to prevail in Calvary Church! AMEN!

SMTH TO THINK ABOUT said...

I have a small daughter aged 4 and her Grandma, my Mum, has set aside a lot of money for her future including her education in the UK, Grandma projecting as far away as 12-13 years time, even for an expensive degree such as medicine. Now, does this mean that my spouse and I can rest on our laurels, armed with the knowledge that her education and actually, everything else, has already been provided for? Does this mean my daughter can just shake her legs and not have to study or be responsible at least financially? Granted she may not read medicine in the UK but may go and do something else, but the point of the matter is, does the knowledge of Grandma's provision exempt us and her from doing our part? If that is so, then why did Jesus, the very Son of God, have to come to earth with blood, sweat and tears in order to fulfill what was UNDOUBTEDLY God's plan and vision for the reconciliation of man to Him? Surely, by your logic, CT, God could have just snapped His fingers and achieved what He desired just like that and don't we sometimes wish He had? What an easy and instant way out of all our earthly struggles and woes, if only He had annihilated Satan after the temptation in Eden. No, God doesn't work that way, God always leaves the exercise of the free will of man to man himself. And if one thinks about it, those of us who are parents, don't we also apply a similar approach in our parenting? We nurture the child and do not provide easy way outs so that the child can learn consequence, discipline and responsibility and be trained in a Godly way. So please, if you can cite any passage of Scripture that shows that God required NO effort and participation of man (creation excluded of course for obvious reasons), then post such an article and base it on real life examples from the Bible. Even the conception of our beloved Lord and Saviour Jesus required much on Mary & Joseph's part. What say you?

Anonymous said...

THE GOOD,THE BAD AND THE UGLY
All professions have their bad apples.Unfortunately this also includes the ecclesiatics and church leaders.The AOG started off very well.We were known for evangelism,good works and charity.In the early 80's almost all my friends wanted to go Bible College- this was the burning desire.And many did go.But then what happened to that vibrance?? Its not the Pastors preaching alone that is important.Observe what comes out of his mouth while fellowshipping. Most AOG ministers are clickish- they have their own "khaki's" here and there. Some they will fellowship- others they will stay away- and badmouth.There is one Pastor who is even known as the "gossip king" among other Christians.
(This is unknown to him personally)If anyone wanted to catch up with the latest gossip in town- you just have to drink tea with him.

I believe all Christians have to return to prayer and bible study God fearing ways- especially in our church life.And the only way that this can happen sometimes- is when the Pastor steps down and goes.

Acts 9 :31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judæa and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the bcomfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Its only when Paul left, that the churches had rest. I am inclined to think that CCC is in the same predicament too.Show is over for SP.Face the facts.

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 12, 2011 11:35 AM

Anonymous said...

OPEN LETTER TO SP AND ASSOCIATES.

HOW LONG WILL YOU GO ON IN THIS DECEPTION? YOU NEED MORE $$$- ITS WRITTEN ALL OVER YOUR FACES.THE VERY ATMOSPHERE IS SATURATED WITH MONEY TALK.STEP DOWN.FROM PASTORS YOU HAVE BEEN CONVERTED INTO PROFESSIONAL CONMEN.

EX-CONMAN SAVED BY JESUS

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 12, 2011 11:56 AM

Anonymous said...

The problem why PG is not stepping down is simply twofold. Firstly, there are still money given to church and it is not little. This means he can still gain money from his position regardless if TTG against him or people left church. Secondly he has no need to step down, because many still support him while those who against him only speak in this isolated website without jeopardizing his fake reputation that he portray to the world. In order for him to step down, these 2 things must be addressed.
Turn off the tap (TOTT) and tell others to TOTT including those new comers and African brothers.

Do not be afraid to tell out PG's sins and Ass Pastor hypocricy. You ought not be ashamed. THey should be ashame. Tell the guest speaker about PG's sins too as they only heard PG's version without having chance to hear TTG. Tell them the truth and bring greater awareness.

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 12, 2011 8:18 PM

CALVARY TODAY said...

Addressing "SMTH TO THINK ABOUT" @ February 12, 2011 1:28 PM.

We have difficulty trying to understand the question or the point that you are putting forth to us in your Comment.

We have not and are in no way advocating, "that God required NO effort and participation of man" as stated by you.

In fact, this idea of "let God be God and He does not need our help" comes from one of CC deacons and is not advocated by CT in any way.

The existence of Calvary Today is our testimony that God always uses us, man created by Him, to carry out and fulfill His purposes here on earth. It is for this reason also that so many faithful men and women have given off their time, talent and substance to be used by God to pursue and establish the cause of TTG.

With regards to building the church, we believe in this : "Unless the Lord builds the house, its builders labours in vain." Ps 127:1

Anonymous said...

I heard the most hypocrite sermon of my life this Sunday from PG. How can PG who has done so much evil against God's people can now preach about loving your neighbor? It is so hypocrite that i nearly want to just go out there and shout at him to stop all his pretension. He has hurted thousands without any regret and yet now he backfire the hurt saying that they are in darkness because they are hurted and stumbled. PG's conscious has indeed confirmed corrupted. Please TTG organise something to bring greater awareness..pleaseee. Many families are broken and many Christians are in hurt because of PG. Don't let him feel good at doing all these hypocrisy at the stage of CC.

Fr Berita Calvary @ February 13, 2011 9:30 PM

Anonymous said...

Reading Anonymous said...Feb 9 2011 12.30pm. comments...

PG was known to have said :"You know, if I'm not a pastor, I'd make a very successful business man--better than Tan Sri K"

When I first meet PG one on one with my wife (then wife-to-be) for the church wedding ceremony, he said almost the same thing, without the Tan Sri K. I was a new Christian then, and the first thing that goes through the back of my mind is, Huh?? Kind of odd comment from a paster, a senior one no less.

I guess he said that to a lot of people.

But I also remember him being extremely charismatic, and can really grab your attention with his words, which years later, I learnt has nothing to do with his actions.

Especially after the exposure of his misdeeds by TTG members.

Bravo TTG!!!

IFollowJesus

Fr CT @ February 14, 2011 8:03 AM

FOR TTG said...

To all who are still pointing their fingers at the Brave TTG advocates, these word of wisdom are for you. Think deep & hard:

The world is a dangerous place not because of people who do evil, but because of good people who look on and do nothing about it.
-- Albert Einstein

“Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

WiseR by the day said...

TO: Anonymous said...January 27, 2011 9:39 PM
"This is definitely a post of the faithless!"
I honestly feel very sorry & sad at the same time for you--being fooled yet not see. But, I still hope you will consider some of these FACTS and then ask if indeed CCC is worthy of your support. ( Caution: you seem to be sold on this 'bait' of PG's--have faith, give & expect blessing 100. 1,000 folds! Study the Word carefully-or seek help from bona fide Pastors )

Here are some key facts for you to mull over:
1. fr. the outset, PG's Criterion was looked for BIG
PIECE of LAND to build MEGA "Church".(careless about lost souls!)
2. No consideration at all on how the Members
would have to do to contribute to the Multi
Millions.-It was a case of what ever it takes at all
cost to have an award winning CCC. Hence, the EXTRAVAGANCE:
i)Full imported Ceramic Roof--some tens of Millions.
ii) More Millions for the auto "winged" roof
iii) *RM8,000,000 for State-of-the-art Partition
within the main Auditorium
iv) State-of-the art RM24,000,000 AV-lighting
system.
v) RM70,000,000 for ID , and etc, etc.
( of course, all the above did not come to pass, and in fact, now so greatly compromised by way of "value engineering" only "shell & core" you get for the RM170 MILLIONS spent to date!(actual will be closer to RM300 Million to build according to PG's original Master Design)

Over the sunday, SIB just announced the 2nd church in Sunway Mas will be built at RM16 Million--beautiful and awe inspiring!Clearly, it is GOD'S
directed every step of the way.
Simple to understand presentation with Simple Chart showing timeline and itemised/breakdown.
NO buts/ifs and shifty explanations of wishy-washy
confusing figures put up as in the case of CCC.PG & BOD Manipulative with the actual cost, funds collected, borrowing, funds raised,and half truths info.

Hopefully, this will knock some sense into your misguided 'rationale'! Just think, CCC is all about SIZE, 5,000 SEATING, STATE-of-the ART, AWARD WINNING ( for Architecture) + Mega Bucks (*to reach out to lost souls get some mention now & then to "justify " PGs Covetousness )*but see what has become of RM10 Million Calvary Land--a white elephant with a dozen or less "residents"!!!) The REAL reason for CCC is, PG has intended to use it stage the World Pentecost Conference--to impress!
and stand pROUD as its President-- what a feat!

Think again:it's 15 years later and & Rm170 Million
dumped into CCC, and still no clear picture in sight.
Do you actually know with CERTAINTY what will CCC cost; WHEN it will be completed, and HOW far it had departed from the Master Plan?

p/s Visit any other local church in KL. PJ/Subang and you will discover how you have been Conditioned in CC and shallow in the knowledge of the WORD--limited by PG's "Faith & Giving" or "Giving & Faith" message week in-week out

Anonymous said...

To WiseR by the day; i agree.
We do realize that most Calvarites are shallow in God's words, and spiritually still infant. Thanks to PG's lack or no anointing ministry, and his many money teaching sermon. Anyone will realize the lack of anointing in CC compare to even many small churches. CC only impressive of its size, not spiritual power. BUt can't blame. 90% of the testimonies are about money. Every sermons have direct or indirect purpose on money. In fact, money is preached more than Jesus in CC. And many man made church regulations too. A sister told me that it is a sin to dedicate a boy to the Lord is he is older than (if i no mistaken) 3 years. Who say so? Not the Bible.