Saturday, October 31, 2009

PG And Wife Continues To Deceive???

Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) is scheduled to preach at Evangel Family Church (EFC) in Singapore on 8 November 2009.

EFC is the home church of his good buddy, Rev Robert Lim. EFC is the generous church which PG had claimed gave him a brand new Volvo XC90 4WD and Sis Petrina Guneratnam, a new Honda Civic a few years ago. Whether this is true or false, no one knows? It is inconceivable that EFC will give such generous gifts to PG and his wife especially since Rev Robert is well-known for his sacrificial giving to church planting and actual missions work while denying himself of such luxuries. We hope that someone from EFC will enlighten us on this mystery.

Coming back to the subject in hand, EFC published an online advertisement on PG’s coming preaching engagement. Click on the following link to see the advertisement:
http://www.evangel.org.sg/advertisem/prince/prince.html

If you read through the write-up on the credentials of PG and Sis Petrina, you will be shocked that they are both still proclaiming (by implication) that Calvary International Ministries (CIM) is still alive.

The write-up states that “ Prince Guneratnam is also the President and Founder of Calvary International Ministries.”

The write-up on Sis Petrina Guneratnam states that “She is also the co-founder and Vice President of the Calvary International Ministries.”

CT does not think that EFC would publish this without getting the clearance from PG. It is more likely that EFC was given this write-up to publish.

If this was the case, PG and his wife are certainly a recalcitrant couple, still bent on misleading fellow Christian brothers and sisters and his own peers.

For those unfamiliar with the background, CIM was the personal ministry of PG. CIM became a major issue among Calvary Church members when it was discovered last year that the Board of Deacons and the Missions Department, both headed by PG, had transferred a total of RM1.9m from church coffers into CIM’s account between 2002 to 2007, without the knowledge or approval of the church members.

The FACT is that CIM has been de-registered by NECF last year because it does not qualify to be a member. CIM had originally been registered as a member of NECF as a result of misrepresentation by PG. After the exposure by concerned members of Calvary Church, CIM was removed from the membership register of NECF. The misrepresentation has also been confirmed by the Assemblies of God Malaysia after conducting their own investigations. CIM, therefore, no longer exists as a Christian body.
CIM’s bank accounts in Malaysia are believed to have been cancelled after the de-registration of CIM by NECF but no one knows if its banks accounts in Singapore or US or elsewhere are still existing. Presumably, they still are.

CT does not know the reason behind PG’s “wanting to keep CIM alive”. One can only speculate that CIM is where all the love offerings which PG receives from his preaching engagements and all donations to his ministry are channeled to.

With “Calvary” in its name, none of the churches and pastors out there can be faulted if they thought that CIM was part of Calvary Church when actually it is not. Therefore, any donation meant for Calvary Church could have been addressed to and channeled into CIM’s bank account/s in Singapore or elsewhere and no one would even be aware of it.

Calvarites have often wondered why, after all these years of our Church giving to the building funds of other churches, none of the overseas churches (except for EFC and Cho Yonggi’s church) have made contributions to our CCC building fund. Perhaps, the answer lies in CIM.
On the topic of deception, another interesting thing to note is that in his wife, Sis Petrina’s write-up, it was stated that she “pioneered the first Assemblies of God church, the Glad Tidings Assembly of God in Klang, Malaysia”.
Perhaps it was a genuine grammatical error in the way the statement was structured but it does give an impression that she started the first Assemblies of God church in Malaysia and that that church was the Glad Tidings in Klang. For the benefit of readers, the first Assemblies of God church in Malaysia was in Jalan Sayur, Kuala Lumpur and she certainly was not the one who started it in 1934 as she was not born yet.
You can read the History of the Assemblies of God church in Malaysia at :
AOG History

So, dear Pastor Prince Guneratnam, what are you up to now?


__________________________________________

Just Added on 7 November 2009.

To read, "The Bible View on Forgiveness" by Gordon Rumford as recommended by Bro. Vijay on November 7, 2009 11:02 PM, click here :


38 comments:

OBVIOUS said...

SLY FOX.

CT, when it comes to "words" PG & wife are the best
copy writers in the world!

Make no mistake that those descriptions of themselves in the AD are not inadvertent error, rather, every word is carefully crafted to MISLEAD.

The CC's history was already RE-written through their own eyes in the *'30 Years Faithful Service' publication 2002 (produced at the expense of the Church's money). Leaf through every pg, from cover to cover, and you will notice all the TWISTED records of Calvary church history, the inflated congregation attendance, and trumpeting of his & hers "achievements" --which are all manipulated to glorify themselves, the Guneratnams.

This commemorative publication produced at their OWN initiative, was nothing but a self promotion book, designed to stamp his own version of 'legacy' Unfortunately, it revealed their wanton pursuit for status,fame and fortune.
*( may be still on sale at the Calvary Book Shop. Perhaps, they accept new orders too!)

ex calvarite said...

wow...how thicked skinned can these ppl get??

Why PG will not repent said...

Please read an older post, from September, which says it all!

The following is quoted from that article:

"We live in a trend of success orientation. Whoever has status, whichever side has more number or whoever more successful will be looked as correct. People look at the appearance more than the matter."

PG and wife know that as long as they look and sound impressive, people will listen.

It is both sad and frightening that PG and his people have NO fear of the mighty God whom they preach.

Do they even believe in the second return of Jesus as the King of kings?

Do they believe in God the Father, Creator of heavens and earth?

What gave them such boldness to mock the living God?

Was this the reason the devil tempted Jesus with the "world and all that is in it?" The devil knows that very few can resist.

Where are the overcomers? They're faithfully and quietly serving God (not seeking self-glory)and resisting the devil. Now I can see why Jesus Christ is eager to call these overcomers, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

Visiting this blog actually helps me with my spiritual growth!

PROFESSOR said...

TRUE or FALSE?

Is Prince Guneratnam the Founder (!!!) of Calvary Church, as he claimed?

p/s No prizes for the correct answer.

Deception Persists said...

The lying habit is too deeply entrenched in PG and PG2. And do they think they can get away with it?

Pride and a lying habit are among the most abhorred and condemned sins that God lists in His Word.

How can PG and PG2 think they can get away and still continue deceiving Christians outside of Malaysia?

We have indeed been wondering why other overseas churches have not been giving to CCC when Calvary Church has been so generous in giving to so many visiting pastors on any of their projects they shared with CC.

We have the most likely reasons now as the overseas gifts could have been conveniently channelled to CIM instead of to CCC project as the donors would have thought CIM is part of CC... or so PG and PG2 would have conveyed to the innocent/trusting parties.

The Gs would have been merrily doing what they wanted to do with the overseas gifts and meantime CC members knew nothing of all the transactions.

Other pastors and BOD are so blind as they never asked about the overseas gifts for CC because they just assumed that other churches don't give towards CCC and also they dared not ask as they think PG and PG2 are not accountable to them and/or they have no right to know!

Pastors and BOD are so subservient and condescending to PG and PG2.... just follow the leader with total allegience and blind misplaced trust.

May God break the bondages of deception, greed and arrogance in CC leadership.

1-7 said...

The BOD in CC are DUMB, DEAF & BLIND:

DUMB: No fool gets fooled twice, but BOD willingly
subject themselves to the Trickery of PG.

DEAF: In spite of the cries &pleads of the multitude
of concerned members to do the right thing,
they corked their ears.
( Thus, they are MUTE, and little wonder, why they never speak-up or able to question PG's on the issues raised in the TTG Cause)

BLIND: More than enough have been exposed on
the despicable acts of PG, yet they choose
to shut their eyes.
(there are thousand of pages on each issue with supporting articles, testimonies & proofs in CT alone!)

Will they pray and break-free from PG's BONDAGE?

Bible Institute of Malaysia (BIM) said...

"Petrina Guneratnam graduated from the Bible College of Malaysia, and pioneered the first Assemblies of God church, the Glad Tidings Assembly of God in Klang, Malaysia."

Deceit #2 : Petrina did not graduate from Bible COLLEGE of M'sia. At the time she graduated the Bible school was called BIBLE INSTITUTE OF MALAYSIA (BIM). She seems to have even forgoten her roots - institute too lowly for the Puan Sri now? She must promote herself to have graduated from a COLLEGE.

Some ppl may say we are being petty and looking for all the small things to pick on our pastor & his wife. They must start learning to live a REAL LIFE as pastors. They cannot continue to live in "fairy calvary land" where everything is what they hope it to be as they like it to be.

SP & SAP please start to be REAL and TELL IT AS IT IS - even it be a humble story.

Anonymous said...

"Bible Institute of Malaysia" is clearly nit-picking. The fact is BIM is now BCM, so nothing wrong for it to be described as BCM as it is now named. This is clearly not a fundamental issue, but a disputable matter. And in respect of disputable matters, the counsel of Scripture seems to be that each man should act according to his own conscience. In trying to hold the pastors accountable, clearly you are not excused from having to comply with Scriptural mandates yourself.

Thanks Ps Andrew Ong of Singapore said...

CT, you should check out on this blog by a Singaporean Pastor Andrew Ong. He has two very interesting articles of the history of AG in Singapore which is also informative for us.

Discoveries of the Early History of the Assemblies of God - http://andrewongcl.multiply.com/journal/item/17

AG History With Malaya : http://andrewongcl.multiply.com/journal/item/18/AG_Singapore_History_with_Malaya

BE OBJECTIVE said...

"Bible Institute of Malaysia" is clearly nit-picking. ?

Not at all. If 'Anonymous' have tracked the communications produced for/by PGs this person would then understand why this BIM/BCM difference was pointed out.

It is a known fact that for the PGs, whatever makes them look good they will do it, even knowingly it is 'half-truth'. Therefore, it is serious enough, especially, "pass-off" seems to be their trait.

In any case, whenever there is a change in status/name, it ought to be recognised/ acknowledged accordingly. Normally it is stated as "Formally Known as..." . Any writer of integrity will
declare it.

Very Impressed with EFC said...

Am very impressed with Ps Robert Lim. A good thing for him, he didn't follow the ways of his good buddy PG. See the difference between them.

1stly, in his church web-site the write up on himself just says,

"Robert Lim received his theological training at the Bible Institute of Malaya and graduated with a diploma of Theology in 1966."

He graduated one year later than Petrina (I think, becoz he was PG classmate) and he says it as it is, BIM not BCM. No shame and no false claim. By right, this is a normal way a person write his CV.

2ndly, their church staff line up is very impressive. The order of line up is alphabetical order. No senior, no junior. Ps Robert Lim is line up one of the last because he is "R". His wife Marion is middle "M".

3rdly, and totally impressed with their son's line up - below the ABCs. He's a "D" and the write up on him is most impressive. Found somewhere smacked in the middle is this, "He is presently the Senior Pastor and is completing a graduate program with Fuller Theological Seminary,....."

This is the way forward for the new breed of church leaders that people look up to today. Not concious of hierachy, no big deal about worldly titles and totally integrated with people - staff and members alike. Good going EFC.

Meet again to avoid speculation said...

BIM or BCM, what does it matter. For as long as PG & PG2 don't come out open with the truth to the whole congregation, speculations will continue.

Too many actions and words from them have been proven to be half-truths, if not lies, everything they say and do from now will be viewed and filtered with extra care by all.

It is really better for them to seek the AG Gen Sup for another meeting to solve this saga. Otherwise, every single move they make will be scrutinized deeply and shared by many openly.

disgusted said...

u're rite..these pg1 and pg2 are so used to telling lies and half truths that they hv no problem in twisting and turning everything to fit their own agenda. shameless!

URGENT! said...

WILL THERE BE A EGM ON THE HALTED CCC?

The type of 2-faced character of PGs are already substantiated without a shadow of doubt.

Let's get back to the most pressing CCC CRISIS of the moment.

PG, BOD, The Project Director ( PG JR.) & the Building Committee have the duty to give a complete report on the entire fiasco to the Members without *delay!

* If not for the CCC Carnival which was held near the CCC site, and All present could SEE that Work has STOPPED on the project, they would probably not even make the casual announcement two sundays ago. That's how they always sweep things under the carpet!

Afflicted said...

For our light affliction,
which is but for a moment,
worketh for us a far more exceeding and
eternal weight of glory.
2 Corinthians 4:17

Every dime said...

URGENT! at 11.55 am November 2, 2009

I bet my every dime (just a figure of speech) that PG and the BOD would never dare call for a EGM on the halted CCC. They didn't even dare to put the resolutions through for the members to decide in the last AGM. Can you imagine a Senior Pastor whom supposedly have more than two third support from the "members" dare not face his own congregation/members in rectifying his position!!! Probably these "members" are from the make-up or "claimed memberships" of 10K which he have been boasting about.

A DECLARATION said...

SCANDALOUS!!!

If one would care to read the article "ABRAHAM WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CITY.." under CT's Posting "PG’s Vision Begins To Crumble", the member/writer has listed down so many VALID questions, which definitely must be answered by PG & gang who are responsible.

To say the least, this CCC project smacks of 'HANKY-PANKY'

Will PG & gang come forward to be answerable to the Congregation and the public/corporation who have have made donation to it too.

UP IN ARMS said...

OVER RM100 MILLION SPENT TO-DATE ON CCC,
IS IT ALL DOWN THE DRAIN?

Find a CEO & his BOD in the world who will run-up a budget of over RM250 Million for a public project and would not face the people when it is stuck!

How irresponsible PG & his BOD, and Building Committee are. Certainly, they have absolutely no sense of accountability.

BOD will be PG's mouth piece forever, while
PG will remain a Coward to The End.

And all the Million$ of BLOOD money, given sacrificially are in vain on CCC, a DOOMED AMBITION of PG from he start.

PG believes he can go Scot- free, Do you?

Stop Hiding said...

What a disgrace that we have such pastors and leaders in CC. They have no conscience at all for what they have done in CCC project and handling of moneys and gifts taken by CC leadership for the past many years.

Now when the project is delayed indefinitely PG, pastors and BOD blame the Main Contractor but who decided on the Main Contractor? Who awarded the CCC project to them in the first place?

Where is accountability by PG, pastors and BOD? You are shifting the responsibility to someone else.
You think that members and the public are blind and ignorant? You still dare to go and raise more monies from the public by painting a false picture that the project is still viable and for good works?

The game of deception will fall flat on your faces... God knows all the games you have been playing.

It is not God's plan because it was not based on the right motives nor to bring glory to GOD... there is only lip service and sweet talk to reach out to the lost BUT instead it was actually a seemingly noble plan to raise more more money to realize a person's selfish ambition to build a huge status symbol and conveniently create a smart avenue of rich provisions for his descendants as well.

People may be fooled once but they will not buy in to countless times of deception and acting foul by PG, pastors and BOD.

Time to be honest and come clean before all... whether members, worshippers and the public.

STOP HIDING PG, pastors and BOD!

EQUALIZER said...

Before I start, let me repeat my previous post:

#1. HAVE YOU ALL DRAWN UP and Identify leaders to take over the Church on the Interim in the event of Sudden Mass resignation?? Don't take this likely. This is like Shadow Cabinet, backup plan to show those still in power and holding the microphone ..... please leave with dignity or be given IVSS. I = Involutary.

#2. Start advising previous Donor who have been a gurantor to certain amount of the project, refurbishment, etc and who have mortgage their house to break the Deal/clause Now. This Church could be trading/worshipping INSOLVENT....i.e you guys are ACTUALLY Bankrupt. It will be a sad day that your ASSET are all lost forever like those that went to MADDOF!!

#3. Understand that every year you continue to retain the same bunch of Cover UP and Spin doctor of Pulpit teaching....you are in fact Funding their lies to the tune of $1.5 million Each Year. Salary, admin, up keep, bills. Even if they hire lawyer to defend themselves, they will be using YOUR money.

#4. I like to see a write up of something in the line an ELITE interim team is ready to take over the running of the Church as you look for more Credible Character to pastor the Church.

#5 Keep up your good work on posting once or twice a week on your blog site. Most important is to Spread the news of your "Shadow Cabinet of elders, deacons, admin, pastor...etc. Make it known of the ability of "Team Fearing God", can do the job!!

#6 These SCUMS will do whatever it takes to stay in power, to have the tools of manipulation, cover up at their finger tip & Get PAID DOING IT.....the sooner you give them IVSS the better it is. With credit so tight, good luck in finishing the project.

#7. Meanwhile focusing on their credibility is pointless. Start a signatory campaign to OPEN the ACCOUNTING Books is better. Then you can see the TRUE state of the Church Financial Affairs. (this itself is a two month campaign if you start today. If you don't, you are none the wiser of the mess...merely speculating according to those who wants to cling on to power)

#8..Followed by Signatory Campaign to Remove ALL those BOD and Tan Sri + cronies and nepotism. Remember the colour t-shirt campaign .....what colour have you chosen? Don't Delay Every month delay is another Pay packet to those who are not humble before GOD.....is this not obvious YET??

......to be continued!!!

Robert Heidler said...

Robert Heidler says this:
"We must learn to discern between the wheat of grace and the tares of legalism.

They look alike.

They grow together.
Grace is based in faith working through love.

Legalism is based in fear and control which are workings of witchcraft.

Religion and legalism will morph together to form witchcraft. Legalism 'bewitches' people into believing that after beginning by grace they can advance through legalism."

twisted truth said...

I was going through the Calvary News Sept/Oct. 09 issue. On page 8, it was mentioned that the CCC Prayer Committee was on site on 27 June 09 and the intercessors were on site on 18 and 25 July 09. Then on page 9, it was a full page aerial view of the site without signs of activities such as the absence of mobile heavy machinery. Pictures in earlier issues shows evidence of activities such as workers and heavy machinery.

Now if it is true that construction works had stopped in April 09, why was there such a long delay before PS made an announcement on Sunday 18 Oct. when the Carnival was just around the corner. Premeditated act.There were a few programmes to raise funds for CCC between April and October such as the Building pledge, golf tournament, bowling tournament and Carnival. There were so much publicity and promotions on screen as well as verbals by the pastors and yet?????
Further as the prayer committee and intercessors were on site, did they not see that there were no construction activities then. Probably a gag order was given to them. These groups are equally guilty of not sharing the true status of CCC's progress. Is this not clearly a case of the leaders not being transparent and fail to tell the truth. Under the topic PG's Vision Begins To Crumble, Caution needed... said "you will get to know only what I want you to know" and nothing else. This remark has hit the nail on the head and shows the secrecy practiced by leaders PG, BOD and AP's in CC. Isn't the truth always twisted? Really, a shameful state of affairs!

In the CC AOG,KL 2009 Organisation Chart,under the Constutional Authority and Appointments, it has definitions of various roles and appointments:

Members: Full consttuitional powers
of Church adminitration
are vested in a General
Meeting of the Members.
Board of Deacons: Elected by
members at a General
Meeting after having been
proposed by the Nominating
Committee.
Senior Pastor: Appointed by the
Board of Deacons,
ratified by Members at a
General Meeting.

So, who is the supreme authority in the church? Obviously the Members! Next the BOD who are elected by the Members. The Senior Pastor is technically an employee of the Church. So how can he run the Church like it belongs to him according to his whims and fancies. Let's be real. If the present Constitution does not give full powers to the Members then it must had been amended by a person or persons to suit their own agendas and benefit. You get no prize to make a guess. Hence the Constitution is flawed and must be rectified which the TTG has been pushing all along but came up against a stone wall. How can the Senior Pastor and BOD (7 members) impose their will on almost 780 Voting Members and almost an equal number of Associate Members. Isn't this dictatorship supported by the BOD? History shows Hitler and his trusted aides who wanted to rule all Europe were finally defeated by the free world. Tyranny will not prevail. Justice will be served.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
To all calvarites...

Something is just not right and very wrong with these pastors! Are these the behaviours of a true servant of God? It just make no sense. Just who are these people really? They might be preaching the Word of God, but does that mean they are for real, for beware satan's ministers who are "wolves in sheeps clothings" comes as an "angel of light" to deceive! I just can't help but asked, are they true servants of God, or are they just a bunch of people with some spiritual coating, running a dictatorail corrupted system for their own personal gains. Friends, to understand this and get an insight of this, I encourage you to check on the website and log into the following topics.

1.What actually is wrong with Pentecostal pastors?

2.Association of former Pentecostals.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO THE PRAYER WORRIERS & INTERCESSORS OF CALVARY CHURCH!

“And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15, NKJV.

First I want to praise the Lord for prompting many bloggers to speak TRUTH with boldness.

My beloved brother/sisters who are prayer worriers and intercessors of Calvary Church, as a fellow intercessor, I call upon you to choose WHOM YOU WILL SERVE! It surprises and hurts me that the prayer worriers and intercessors of Calvary Church did not discern the satanic scheme behind the CCC project.

When my wife and I heard the CCC project announced when we 'happened' to visit Calvary Church more than a year ago - there was agony in our spirits - WE HAD TO WALK OUT because we knew even than that it was not of the Lord and we shared our concerns with fellow Christians.

BROTHERS/SISTERS - YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE WRONG RIGHT. YOU HAVE TO CHOSE WHOM YOU WILL SERVE AND WALK AWAY FROM THIS PROJECT. REPENT, OTHERWISE, THE LORD WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE AS PRAYER WORRIERS AND INTERCESSORS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN A PRIVILEGED PLACE WITH GOD.

I beg you to seek the Lord and know the TRUTH. You can begin by INTERCEDING FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF FALSE LEADERS. Please read Rees Howells booklet "God Challenges the Dictators" where he prays openly for the destruction of evil leaders like Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin."

By the way God only said 'forgive your enemies if they repent!' - For a better understanding of forgiveness read the book "Have I to forgive my enemies" by Oswald Chambers and "The Bible View on Forgiveness" by Gordon Rumford http://www.rumfordministries.org/2008/12/the-biblical-view-on-forgiveness/

My dear prayer worriers and intercessors of Calvary Church. Any prayer or intercession that is not prompted by the Holy Spirit is false. If we claim to pray to God when He has not prompted us to do so, we are making a false claim. It is, then, false prayer. Sincerity has nothing to do with it.

True prayer is referred to in James 5 as the ”effectual prayer of a righteous man (which) availeth much.” It is ‘effectual’ because it is God-given, not man-made. How often have you been asked to pray, out of the blue, by a leader for selfish motives? How often have you prayed because you know others expect you to do so - even though you had no spiritual discernment on what and how to pray? All of these are signs of ineffectual and false prayers.

We find false prayer implied in 1 Titus 2:8, “I will then therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.” We may infer from this that true prayer is holy (e.g. from God and to God), and that prayer is nullified or made false by wrath and doubt.

So if the prayer worriers and intercessors of Calvary Church have now doubts about their “on site” prayer for CCC – you may infer your original ‘onsite prayer’ as FALSE!

God warns His people in Isaiah 1:15 that He ‘will not hear’ prayers tainted by blood and He damns those who pretend to pray aright when they have deceived others (Mark 12:40), because their prayers are false.

True prayer, then, is always that prayer given to us by God, through the Holy Spirit. Because it is not borne of our sinfulness, it is pure and holy, and therefore, He will – listen and give an answer.

We cannot escape the conclusion, then, that false prayers have been uttered in relation to the CCC project and the Lord will hold those who uttered such prayers accountable because they have prayed or interceded without being prompted by the Holy Spirit.

Christian said...

Dear Bamboo,

The bible says "Forgive others as God forgive you" so the basis of forgiving others is God forgiving us. The church leaders/pastors have sinned but they are our brothers and sisters in Christ still, not our enemies. Please dont bambozled us around since you are not a member of CC.

Christian said...

To Anonymous said..November 7, 2009 10:32 PM

I suspect many of our pastors have turned into 'career pastors' God has blessed CC so much through the members that they do not have to worry about their monthly subsistence. What's more they are amply supplied.

Dont expect too much and put them on a pedestal, they too can succumbed to the vagaries of being a 'salary man'. From their viewpoint, God has richly blessed them and is such a good God. Rightly so, God is indeed good. However just as in Deut 8:1-10, they could have forgotten where they come from and allow the spirit of Mammon to crept in.

As the yeast of Pharisees works itself into the dough, they retain the form of Godliness but may lack the true power of Christ's life in them. Like the Pharisees, they could be thinking they are on God's side when they crucify Christ not knowing how wayward they have gone.

Just as we who need Christ to restore us when we fail Him miserably.. yes that's what we the 'salary men' in the 'secular' world also go through,let us pray that God restore them to perform the true service of pastoral leadership.

Dont u see many of our associate pastors are busy administrators and performance oriented individuals who ministers at the 'surface'

Hope they examine whether their life reflects their teachings. They need our prayers cos their present condition does not bode well for CC.

No Shepherd's Heart said...

So well said Christian... our pastors are just having a church profession, that is all. They don't have a real calling right now, maybe many years ago they did hear from God but not now.

They don't have the love of a shepherd towards their sheep. It is just a profession that provides for their needs and their families' needs.

They clock in and out like other secular employees. If you call in at 5.05 pm. It is likely you won't get them in Church premises anymore. For those who belong to the elite group they don't even follow the office time so they just drop in as they wish... flexi hours as they call it. Real comfy and cosy ..so where would they wish to listen to the pain and hardships of the sheep.

They will ask you to contact your Life Group Leader and get assistance...or help. Very convenient indeed.

deception continues said...

Quote from:

http://www.calvary.org.my/about.html

"The sanctuary at Damansara Heights seats 1,500 with three similar Worship Services at 8am., 10.30am and 5pm."

Got others to read this sentence and then asked them what this means. The answer is "the sanctuary has 1,500 seats." A reader's perception is formed after reading what is written.


Isn't this statement deceiving? Who is responsible for this glaring false information? The sanctuary has about about 790 seats. When the church replaced the benches with individual seats, I asked an usher who goes clicking to count the number of worshippers after the service commenced and this was the figure given.

Once again, it has proved that the leaders in the Church always "up" the figures just like what HJK said about the tax exemption regarding CCC. Then he got PG to come to the rescue. Will PG or some leaders clarify this gloss false statement? Pastor RY, you are the minister for puclicity. What comments have you?

It is getting extremely difficult to believe what PG, the BOD and AP's say nowadays. Don't know whether it is the truth, half-truth or outright lie?

God have mercy. Teach us and guide us to act with discernment, able to know truth from lies and forgive those who claim to be man-of-God but fail to act like one.

Btw two weeks has passed since the Carnival. The Sunday immediately after the Carnival, Pastor SK proudly said that it was RM730K gross. What is meaningful is the nett? Pastor SK, when will you make this announcment? I remember the Church announced nett after the first Carnival. Last year the gross figure was given but I cannot remember hearing the nett being announced. Did I miss it then?

A Christian Hacker said...

Hi Bamboo,

I find your call to the prayer warriors and intercessors of Calvary Church rather peculiar. How sure are you that the intercessors of Calvary Church are not intercceding? Have you joined them in the morning watch services before? Or perhaps on a Saturday afternoon at the prayer tower?

Likewise, it has also hurt me that you are throwing off comments that seeks to divide further the body of Christ. Who are you and why do you hide behind a pseudonym? Face me like a man and reveal your true heart.

You envelope your true motives in what appears like true Christian jargons, yet when I read you in between the lines, it is obvious to me that you are calling good bad and calling bad good. You are equally as guilty for being a judge yourself. I do find you to be a modern day pharisee, using Scriptures in a very twisted manner. Oh, may God have mercy on your soul!

How dare you go around accusing the prayer warriors and intercessors of Calvary Church of not praying enough. If you do not know the truth, then don't say anything till you have and visited us.

Till then, shut your mouth up!

If you continue this way, I will trace your IP address all the way to where you are located and come and look you up!

Christian Hacker said...

This article was titled "PG and Wife Continues to Deceive", I personally entitled my entry "Bamboo Conspiracy Continues to Deceive".

I see your entry almost at every post posted at CalvaryToday. It seems to me that you take much joy and delight in seeing the body of Christ attacking one another! It puzzled me because you seem to have placed yourself at a more superior level than the rest of us when you are not even a Calvarite.

Vijay, if you ever start a church and if I ever get invited to the church that you pastor, you can be sure I will be the FIRST TO WALK OUT and start a new blog to personally talk about you. I will make it my personal vendetta to follow you online and trace all the websites you have regularly visited and counter-debate with you with other websites too.

Funny to me too, that in your post, there doesn't seems to be anything that encourage the body of Christ. I wonder what does the Lord think of the post that you have just posted and published?

I also wonder what goes through your mind when you posted that last post? That you were "called" to straighten out my pastors in Calvary Church? That God has personally spoken to you to do so?

Oh, since my profession is in this line, at this moment, I do advise you to change your godaddy's password.

Love truth frown threat said...

Between what's right and what's wrong, one cannot merely utters irrational comments and making threatening statements to silence another interested and concerned netizen(regardless he/she is past present or potential calvarite). Remember Jesus practices free speech extensively and reminds us often about hypocrites. Yes, we are included too.. all men teachers and priests.

The on-going leadership crisis(lacking transparency, accountability etc) has been on-going for many years already (not just because of the official announcement of construction work stoppage at the Calvary Convention Centre) Many knew about it some months before SK's breaking news over the pulpit but were labelled then as "liars". Please get this point clear and spend sometime reading as much as the old postings as possible before writing/posting rude and threatening words to cause pain to fellow bloggers' ears.

Vijay, I encourage you continue to bless us with your spiritual wisdom and discernment. Truth hurts, we all know, when you speak truth without fear or favour. If you do care and you truly love your neighbours it's alright to point out the warts and pimples for your neighbours' apiritual well-being and advancement

It is quite easy to promote half-truth and manipulations from the pulpit and this practice and policy in CC has been on-going and continuing. Now read the current posting that "PG continues to deceive". It is not the first time he has reneged on his commitment to sit down with concerned members to have a meaningful dialague instead of holding "ceramahs" for selective membership surreptiously by phone before the last AGM. It was outright division as some spouses and partners are "conveniently" ignored.

How much more damage (spirtual, physical and financial) must members and worshippers suffer?

Anonymous said...

Dear Bamboo,
Your "OPEN CHALLENGE TO THE PRAYER WORRIERS & INTERCESSORS OF CALVARY CHURCH" has really open up a can of worms and stirred up the hornet's nest.
Sometimes it takes an ex-Calvarite or someone outside to wake us up from our slumber. The Truth hurts.

Christian Hacker is a Gangster Bully and a Cheat! Its a shame if SP, Pastors & BOD resort to 'professional internet gangsterism' to mute this blog and its supporters.

Christian Hacker said...

Hey Anonymous at 8:54am,

Don't remain Anonymous in the kingdom of God. Reveal your email address and I will send you a private email. I am targeting my post to Vijay and ask him to repent. What does that gotta do with you.

Don't resort to "professional anonymosity" on the Internet.

Anyway, I'm done with all your nonsense. Waste my time for even reading your blog.

And guess what, a "Christian hacker" is an oxymoron. For you to reply me, you're also a fool. Don't you know, it takes a fool to know a fool.

I'm outta here!

God protects His children said...

Bro Vijay,

"The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." (James 5:16)

God is a powerful God and He hears the prayers of those who belong to Him. He also protects those who belong to Him.

CT now has the record of the "internet bully". If anything does happen to you, CT can surrender that record to the authorities. See our God always has ways to protect His children especially when they are willing to stand up for Him.

BTW, even Bill Gates cannot tract down bloggers and you think we (some also in the internet profession) can be fooled by that "bully"?

Love Truth frown said...

On my earlier posting, I wish to make a correction. The reference to read the posting on Calvary Today is "PG Chickens Out"

Also the posting "PG's vision begins to crumble" has relevance to my comments.

Pray we don't have to suffer reading more and more outbursts posted by "christain hacker". Further pray that the CC pastors will help him/her out of his/her present dilemna if the pastors do know this person.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS cautions all...

I have read so many, many comments on the CT Blog and although I agree that something has be said against the present Calvary church leaders, I must cautioned all who wrote and wish to write to be very, very careful that what is written must be within the scope of what the Bible teaches us on "Ye who is spiritual, judges all things". All must be on guard and not let what was said backfired against us.

No one is righteous before God. Not one, the Bible says. No single christian has ever lived close to what the apostles had lived, for the apostles forsaked the comfort and luxuries of life and instead suffered persecutions unto death for preaching Jesus. This is what I called a true servant of God. So let this be a lesson for all of us, especially SP and all pastors & BOD if they are reading here, to truly knows what it means to be crucified with Christ and follow the living example of the apostles.
Too often, we forget how Jesus suffered a cruel death for our sake.

Facing Our Final Judge said...

GOD THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGE

Psalm 50

1. The Mighty One, God the Lord,
Has spoken and called the earth
From the rising of the sun to its going down.

2. Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty,
God will shine forth.

3.Our God shall come, and shall not keep silent;
A fire shall devour before him,
And it shall be very tempestuous all around Him.

4. He shall call to the heavens from above,
and to the earth, that He may judge His people:

5."Gather My saints together to Me,
Those who have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice."

6. Let the heavens declare His righteousness,
For God Himself is Judge.

7. "Hear O My people, and I will speak,
O Israel, and I will testify against you: I am God, your God!

8. I will not rebuke you for your sacrifices
Or your burnt oferrings,
Which are continually before Me....

11. I know all the birds of the mountains,
And the wild beasts of the field are Mine....

14. Offer to God thanksgiving,
And pay your vows to the Most High.

15. Call upon Me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you and you shall glorify Me."

16. But to the wicked God says:
"What right have you to declare My statutes,
Or take My covenant in your mouth,

17. Seeing you hate instruction
And cast My words behind you?

18. When you saw a thief you consented with him,
And have been a partaker with adulterers.

19. You gave your mouth to evil,
And your tongue frames deceit.

20. You sit and speak against your brother;
You slander your own mother's son.

21. These things you have done, and I kept silent;
You thought that I was altogether like you.
BUT I will rebuke you,
And set them in order before your eyes.

22." Now consider this, you who forget God.
Lest I tear you in pieces,
And there be none to deliver:

23. Whoever offers praise glorifies Me;
And to him who orders his conduct aright
I will show the salvation of GOD."

God is the final Judge and whoever does not heed His warnings and continues to conduct himself wrongly and leads many others stray with him, will face God's final judgment and wrath...There will be none to deliver.

We pray our leaders will not continue to conduct themselves as though God is not around or He is unaware of their conduct..May they order their conduct aright and so receive the salvation of God. Otherwise they would have preached the Word, ran the race but in the end lose the race...

Instead why not run the race well as God's faithful servant and finish well too?

How long do you think God will remain silent?

Anonymous said...

Dear bloggers,

We are brothers & sisters, and ONE in the family of God. God hurts to see us quarrel among ourselves with words and threats :-( Let us not allow the devil any foothold in our lives.
Let us keep our focus on our good Lord daily to help us walk with Him in righteousness. The battle belongs to God. And the battle has already been won! The truth will always be revealed! All these 'things' shall come to past one day! Let us keep these 'things' in prayer and be watchful of the events that will unfold.
We are to submit ourselves wholly unto Him and resist the devil. God wants us to mature in Him, and to reveal His truth to us as we spend time daily in His presence like what Mary did. Let us keep our eyes on JESUS, THE LOVER OF OUR SOUL...for He LOVES us and LONGS for us!
Let us remember to put on the full armor of God each day as we're living in a world ruled by principalities of darkness.
God bless you all :-)

Post a Comment