Monday, September 7, 2009

Reasons why PG will not repent

14.9.09 : Read another interesting observation by "Ampang Calvarite" (Comment no 15). Go to end of this article. Click on xx Comments. A list of Comments will appear, then scroll down to read the latest comments.

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This was an e-mail we received from a Concerned Calvarite who is not known personally by the CT & BC administrators. We received this brief reply when we wrote in for permission to publish.
"O.k, go ahead...I discovered the blog Calvary Today only recently about few months ago, and i felt like Elijah knowing that there are 500 other faithful prophets hiding in the caves. It bring relief and comfort that i am not alone. I am not the only one who see what i saw in Calvary Church. I heard rumours that people left Calvary Church but i do not know them or who. Some of my friends are still there who very much support PG, but others are no more. i think we lost contact somehow : ( "

from : lee@....com
to : calvarytoday@gmail.com
date : Sep 3, 2009 10:45 PM
subject : Reasons why PG will not repent

Reasons why PG will not repent.

1. He still have multitude of supporters locally and worldwide
While many support Truth, Transparency and Godly church governance, many still support the lordship of PG. Many in church still give to his dynasty. Offering bags can still be heavy. The wayward spending of the senior executive pastor on gym and other luxury facilities are ongoing. His Judas hand over the church account continue. Even churches of his good friends are still contributing fund for his endeavor. Why people still support him?
a) People believe pastor is always correct.
People evaluate on the basis of position. This is true in the world and sadly true in churches too. People see status, not hear reasoning. This happen because Christian in church today are merely taught to obey, not evaluate. The Berean heart is almost extinct in many churches today. We live in a trend of success orientation. Whoever has status, whichever side has more number or whoever more successful will be looked as correct. People look at the appearance more than the matter. People have a general assumption that pastor, called by God for His service is always right. Everyone who support him is indirectly feeding to his arrogant and pride and thus stopping him from repenting. If we love our pastors, we would want them to repent and be restored.

b) Calvarites were too proud of the church institution
Many Calvarites are too proud of church institution that they often distinguish themselves from Christians from other churches solely on the basis of church institution. Such pride create an unhealthy sense of belonging that stir competition among churches. This spirit many times are seem to be intentional stirred by the leaders and pastors in church. Such is seen not just in Calvary church but also in many AOG churches today.

Today many churches tend to have a cold war among themselves with a secret vision of which churches has the largest building, the most beautiful building, jump the highest, shout the loudest, live the most liberal, get most recognition from foreign churches, has the most number of congregation, or which pastor is more popular. Because of such institution pride, many Calvarites tend to ignore the sin of senior executive pastor(PG). To many, they rather have success although in mere appearance, than to have real truth but loosing the chances to boast over other churches. The pride that allow them to boast as member of the biggest and wealthiest church that often has event in stadium and luxury places, own great number of property with the most beautiful building, and church that is recognized by many foreign churches is too tempting, that they would rather ignore righteousness for it. They rather save face than to face truth. This is much so for those who serve as leader. Due to such institution pride, it is a predicted response that they will support CCC, a glamorous monument exalted like tower of Babel that dominate and minimize all other churches in size, luxury and architectural beauty – a license to boast over all and make doctrine that none dare to confront.

Calvary Today does not cause division. Division is just a product of what actually happen. But there is good in this division, to my opinion that the Lord has allowed it to happen – that is that Calvarites can finally learn to be humble. We finally came to realize that we are actually “Christian” just like others, not “Calvarite” as we used to think. Church institution is just a shell. Wealth and glamour do not distinguish us from the rest. We are as weak as other Christians in Malaysia.

c) People tend to pretend to be peacemakers
Not everyone are like those in Calvary Today who are willing to scar their face to go against evil. Many would rather be peacemaker, a “neutral” side where its end is easy to be accepted, no matter what is the outcome. This is the “free thinker” of Christianity. Their motto is like the Chinese say, “If many matters, why not rather less matters; and if less matters, why not no matter at all?”. Rather than righteousness and justice, they see peace merely as zero matter or activities. These are the people who strike for peace at all cost, even to compromise evil; not knowing that division is not the source, it is actually the product of conflict.

We cannot remove the result of something without remove that very thing. We cannot eliminate the product of a problem without dealing with the source of the problem. People try to remove product of the problem by not producing the product of the problem, that is by ignoring the problem itself, although the problem did exist. This is irresponsible, as we Christians are not called tent of thieves but watch tower and light of the world. Jesus said, “I did not come to bring peace, but a sword” (Matt 10:34). Many times, it is easier to be peacemaker (of artificial peace) than to fight for real peace. But we are not in a game.

The outcome of every wars that we fight will affect us. It could means that the loser may be called heresy, banished from church community, punished under some sort of church ISA, or even labeled as cult. Because of such fear, many would rather not openly against the dictatorship of senior pastor. They would rather play peacemaker, a neutral party, that call for blind forgiveness (means compromise), have faith in pastor (means just do what you are told), and everything will be alright (means be ignorance). These peacemakers are tend to stand for chief senior pastor, since whoever do not disagree with his wayward spending is for him.

d) People are in ignoranceWhen there is strife and dispute, what is actually happening and where do we get reliable information? Since no pastor support TT&G and all associate pastors support PG, the only voice for TT&G is through websites and spread word of mouth from individual to individual. There is no pastor stand on stage to preach for truth and transparency or against church finance secrecy and deception. Not everyone serve internet and if they do, they may not find CalvaryToday or Berita Calvary. He may not know anyone who support TT&G, so he remain unaware of the truth, whereas there is much can be done by PG to justify himself. He can preach on stage heard by many, manipulate Bible verses to justify himself or criticize those oppose him.

His link and relationship with other pastors whether local or foreign is also a privilege for him to explain situation away, the way he want it to be, and those who heard from him does not verify the info from the congregation. Not every pastors from other churches who support him do so merely because of their good friend relationship with him. Many do not really know what actually happen in Calvary Church today. People are in ignorance, not knowing what is actually happenning and believe whatever has been told to them. Their only source of info is from pastor himself. They hear from one side without hearing from the other.

Perhaps people are being explained that the situation in Calvary church is just a faith measurement issue, where SP has high faith, so high that he has no worry spending church money waywardly because he has faith that he will not fail; whereas those who oppose him have low faith, fearing that the church will bankrupt due to wasting just a couple of millions ringgit.

People may be told that it is just a over-worry issue, a misunderstanding between two parties of different faith level. Perhaps that is why some pastors still support him, and even help him to preach to his congregation the impression they get from SP. They thought it is just a lack of faith issue, a miscommunication problem, where the congregation could not cope with SP’s faith level. So just preach faith and it will solve the problem. Preach to the people not to worry, just trust and the problem will be solved, so they think.

Others may be told that it is just a feeling issue. It may be told that some people simply over sensitive at what SP is saying and offended by it. So just preach forgiveness and it will solve the problem. This is the impression given. We see reaction from some pastors that reflect that they have such impression. It’s explained as though as it is another miscommunication problem, where there is no one right or wrong, just a misunderstanding. This is so that other churches or foreign Christian community do not think Calvary Church has a serious problem. But we do have a serious problem, so serious that if it prolongs, the negative impact and the solution required can grow too big, so much so that even if SP and his whole family would step down, it does not improve the situation.

Is the problem merely an issue of lack of faith (worry) or someone offended (feeling issues) ? No. If senior pastor would apologize yet continue to be who he is, it does not solve the problem. If the congregation would simply trust and silent its voice, it does not solve the problem. The problem is not relative, but absolute. Repentance is called for and is necessary. It ought to be seen in real action, not merely in show acting..

2. He is well established in status and ministry
It is easy to criticize a nobody, but if you criticize someone of great wealth and high position in society, you better have a reason worth sacrificing yourself. PG has a title Tan Sri and Dr (I think mean he obtain a PhD). All these were not casually comes. It is intentionally, it is priority (contradict to this year theme). All these are possible because he is careful to ensure every project, every activities, every money or effort spent by the church were spent to gain honor and polish that reputation of his.

He don’t mind giving church money to other church, because he will be known for such charity. But he will not give to a needy beggars in the street, because such has no benefit to his career. He don’t mind adopting a village when the government require because all such effort will add to his credit to achieve Tan Sri, but to speak against injustice in this land, he would rather not. You see, everything that he plan for the church, he ensure that he has benefited, although he claim they are doing for God.

As the result of all these years of church effort in all these planned events, projects and activities, we see PG has gain much power, wealth and fame. He has title, he has wealth and he has great influence among churches in AOG and even other denominations. Thanks to all the sincere effort of our serving, a monster is born. Special thanks also to all the pastors and leaders who throughout the years have constantly polish his shoe and pampering his arrogant, quoting, “Senior Pastor say that, senior pastor say this”, a haughty prince emerged.
With the fame, wealth and power both among Christian community and the world, it is not surprising that he is reluctant to repent despite much reasoning. After all, what can people do to him? He has the authority with him. With our money, he has impressed many churches through giving and winning their heart of support. With his profession as pastor and once a superintendent of AOG, he has clothed himself with immunity against protest. It is very diffcult for leaders of other churches to go against him. It is like a ministry suicide, because of his influence among the pastor network. People would rather be quiet and step aside. This Tan Sri’s dependence on status, fame and wealth has made him greed so much, will he give up now? Who can really shake him? Or so he thinks.

3. He knows the weakness of men
The SP knows the weakness of men as do our enemy. In a long term dispute, the weak will tend to faint, give up and either disappear or join the other side. It does not matter if we stop giving, it does not matter if we jump into a lake either. If he can build CCC with wide hall and beautiful architectural, people will go to church and tend to forget his sin. If many attend CCC, impressed by the beauty of it, and satisfy with the thrive of having a wide worship hall, it does not matter to him how many jump into the lake. The new numerous members will replace those who had jumped into the lake. All that is matter to him is number, as such indicates power and fame. When many who are impressed by the structures of CCC begin to support him, attend church and start giving to PG so that they could claim a sense of ownership of CCC, and the number grow again, then the prince will has every reasons to claim as king. He can preach as though as Calvary Today is wrong, and that every picture he falsely paint to the public is then “proven” correct.

We humans are weak in many ways. We tend to see success in wealth or numeric as a justification of oneself. If PG would just silent the protest now until CCC is built and the number recovered (including the money, of course), there is no need then for him to repent. He can even prove that he is right thus far. You see, he who had carefully done everything merely for the sake of fame and wealth is cunning. From Calvary land to the project of adopt a village, everything were done for himself. Although done by people in church, it is claimed for his own credit. He who climbed to be Tan Sri and chased for every ministry awards, is crafty enough to know the weakness of men. He knows what normal people will fall into. Calvary Today is dealing with an usual men who throughout the years has carefully ensured that everything the church has done will eventually feed himself with power, fame and wealth. He who has established himself and his fortress through your sincere hard labor, is not naïve. And he think he can again escape.

4. He loves his comfortable & luxury life more than the sheep
He who loves his life with all that is with it, will he has compassion or even has consideration on you? No. Appeal does no difference. So is reasoning. It is not that the point is confused, it is purposefully refused. No matter what truth or how transparent it is desired, it will not be entertained. It is intentional, not accidental rejected. No passive action will prevail. Don’t hope to receive compassion, don’t hope to be pitied. For the ambassador of mammon know no pity, clothed no compassion and gives no consideration to the hurt. He who love wealth and fame will hold to the position where he can simply put his Judas’ hand into the account when ever and however he wanted.

Will he step down to save your faith in God? No. Will he repent and accept godly governance? No. Money and fame had lifted him up, money and fame is what he will hold onto. He will rather plunder wealth from the church than to merely give it up, unless one day it runs dry. God’s kingdom is not His priority, it is his propaganda. Therefore, do not jump into the lake as he instructed, he will not have pity on you because the sheep is not his priority either. They are just number to him, an asset of fame and a source of income.


Having to mention this, it is appropriate that Calvary Today help those who have left to other churches. It is not known if they are accepted as normal or being seen as Christians who “jump church”.
a) Calvary Today ought to bring awareness that not all who jump church are bad Christians. In fact, many who did have a valid and godly reasons.

b) Calvary Today ought to help those who left to other church to continue to walk with God without haunted by the hurt of the present Calvary situation. They ought to learn to move on, learning from the past hurt but not carrying it along.

I remember many years ago, when a brother in my office’s fellowship express the membership scandal in Calvary Church (that is long before Calvary Today exist), a sister who is a visitor to our fellowship begin to express the jump church scenario that she faced. She told us that she jumped church because of some church leadership problem. At first, she seem like just wish to be quiet in the fellowship, giving no comment. But when the brother express such dissatisfaction, she can’t help but to tell her experience and hurt. She can express such because it is a small fellowship and thank God the believers in the fellowship understand her.

We ought to be sensitive to those who are hurting. Many are victims of church leadership, jump to other church, but afraid to tell of the problem they face in previous church because of fear that the Christian community (which many are church orientated and prosperity gospel influenced) would criticize them just because they jump church, without finding out why.

c) Calvary Today should not just look to bring PG down, but also to lift those who are hurt by him. Do not expect CLM under Pam G would play such a role. CLM would rather address homosexuality, a relatively irrelevant issue in Malaysia than to address many major direct hot issues in Malaysia; because in my opinion, it may be established to impress foreign church community only, not really wish to minister to people.

There are so many issues in the past few years that happened in our Malaysian community as well as in Christian community that ought to be addressed. Sadly, Christian leaders seem to be ignorant, with few merely focus on collecting money for church building. There is no one would care for those church jumpers now other than Calvary Today. This ministry is presumed on you because only you know and can care.

24 comments:

Word to be Flesh said...

In today's Every day with Jesus I learned that "If we do not back up our words by actions than the word remains word. We begin with words and end with words. But when we put the word into action, then the word becomes flesh"

Our sermon on Sunday taught us that we need to love and care for our families and those around us and also we should not gauge a person by their wealth.

Let the word preached be put into flesh and we would be convinced that truly that is the message received from God for the people!!

Shepherd's heart said...

To the writer of "Reasons why PG would not repent":

I salute and appreciate you for taking the time to share all the above reasons. It has definitely made me realized even more why PG would not repent and why he is doing what he is doing.

You hit the nail on the head when you said PG would not care or bother, or even pity those who jumped into the lake, who lost faith in God (Christianity), for they are all numeric numbers to him and NOT his sheep. Does he has a shepherd's heart? NO!

Yes, I say a BIG AMEN to your call for the TTG members (Calvary Today) to help lift up those who are hurting because of the saga in Calvary Church. PG and the pastors of Calvary Church have all failed in their duty to care, nurture and uplift the hurting members. The associate pastors are more concern about their paycheck. Are they the light and salt to the members? Let us not go so far as to the world!

"Oh Lord, may Your kingdom come, may Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Amen."

Is CC a Cult? said...

On the subject of "cults", you can find information in Wikipedia and other sources.

Cults, amongst other things, demand absolute loyalty, severely punish "disloyalty", control members' access to information, demand members accept the opinion of the cult leader, have a leader who demands absolute obedience...

Sounds like the way PG & BOD is running CC, huh?

Cults also often have members whose job is to punish other members who in some way have "displeased" the leader of the cult.

In CC, that disciplinarian is the BOD.

PG has been and still is "cheating" CC by moving funds to his personal ministry & giving himself, his family members & his cronies big fat salaries & perks which other church workers do not enjoy nor even know of (as confirmed at the April 09 EGM by the church auditors).

Cults have only one set of rules - theirs. If their members managed (by using the cult's own rules) to catch their leaders, the leaders will just interpret the rules to their own benefit or sometimes even change the rules (aka "moving the goalposts during play") to suit themselves.

It is not easy to expose a cult as their followers are usually too close to see that they have been hoodwinked but history has shown that, many a times, it is God who will expose such cult & bring the downfall of their leaders.

PG & BOD, God will not be mocked. Enough is enough; if you still want to get to heaven, repent while there is still time. You can't take your wealth to heaven.

Moved on said...

Personally, I don't believe I have experienced this 'jump church' attitude from others.

When I was checking out other churches, I was asked which church I was from. More often than not my response would be greeted with a knowing nod. I decided on a church last October and have been attending it. I want to be careful before I put down roots again. Gladly, I've recently signed up to be involved in a ministry there.

I have felt enough heartache and shed enough tears over what's going on in Calvary Church; and God knows. I still pray for its restoration for the simple reason that no one, absolutely no one, should tamper with any house of God.

And the Guneratnams, BOD and guilty pastors have absolutely no idea WHO they are dealing with. Like in Joel, there is coming the Day of the Lord.

church for the rich said...

Absolutely agree on the part of PG only donating church's offerings to other big churches in rich countries instead of to the poor small churches in Msia or the 3rd world countries. I was aghast during the AGM few months back when PG's crony, SK, announced to the members that contrary to what many ppl would do, calvary has decided to set up a church in India to reach out to the higher strata of the society!! Oh my goodness....trust PG to think of something as cunning and greedy as that. The only reason why he even bothers setting up a church in India for the rich is so that these rich ppl can give him more offering aka money. PG is not interested in their salvation, he does not care for the poor and needy in India, all he wants his money, power and status. Many of us are still shock (but yet not fully suprised) that PG can think of such an idea, guess that's what wolves in sheep's clothing does! By doing something like this, it clearly shows that PG's agenda is totally different from Jesus' agenda.

Well written said...

Hello writer of this article. Well done. It really summarise why PG is going to hang on no matter what. He is living in a bubble of luxury and no one can disturb him because he has secured so many "jagas" for him through the years. 7 deacons, xx pastors, xx full time workers to surround him. The other ordinary leaders are the "kuli-kuli" that the "jagas" recruit that PG don't even know who they are.

He thinks he can get rid of all of us who question his bad habits so he can continue to run CC like a "cowboy" church ie, no law one, he is living in his dream world for too long. Am so glad that CT is still around to hold all of us together and we will stay on till our Heavenly Father takes back His house of worship ie Calvary Church from this earthy prince. No way he is going to make himself king here in my Father's house.

Thanks again for writing this article.

Matthew 23:23 said...

"How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give to God one tenth even of the seasoning herbs, such as mint, dill, and cumin, but you neglect to obey the really important teachings of the Law, such as justice and mercy and honesty. These you should practice, without neglecting the others."

The scripture above is for PG & BOD to reflect upon.

Was there any "justice and mercy and honesty" shown by them at the recent AGM on 19th & 20th June 2009?

Was there any "justice and mercy and honesty" shown by them at the recent EGM on 4th April 2009?

Was there any "justice and mercy and honesty" shown by them at the recent EGM on 15th August 2008?

PG & BOD, looks like you have used up your 3 chances. God will NOT be mocked. Your punishment is coming; repent while you still can. If not, our prayers for you to repent will be in vain.

Kelvin T.L. Lim said...

Dear Beloved Brothers & Sister in Christ,

Ps. Kelvin here from Johor Bahru (JB). It has been a while since I last made or left a comment on Calvary Today... all of you have been in my heart & thoughts and very much in my prayers.

The spiritual deterioration in Calvary Church is just not within the our once beloved church, but it is a world-wide spiritual epidemic among churches. In Matthew 24 & 2 Timothy 3... the Lord warns us to 'TAKE HEED' of the Signs of the Times and the End of the Age and the Apostle Paul writes to Timothy to be alert of 'PERILOUS TIMES & PERILOUS MEN'.

Things in JB are no different too... therefore, I urge & encourage all of us to continue enduring ourselves with sound doctrine in submission to the will, plans & purposes of the Father and continue the faith in Him.

Please do remember me in your prayers too as I continue that good work for His name sake and His glory. Blessed ya.

3Rs... Real, Realistic & Relevant!
Kelvin

Need verification said...

Hey Calvarites, keep a look out for Pam G tomorrow in church. Heard that she is planning (or maybe already gone) to take 6 months leave from work ie not reporting for work in CC for 6 months.

Auditors must verify this and make sure it is not a full pay leave. Someone must explain to the G family the meaning of no pay leave. Remember Mrs G older said they are not from the secular world so don't know anything about it. Also check if her destination is not to see her daughter in USA. You know, church paid holiday for the G family while the members are back here, told to raise funds for ccc.

Time Bomb said...

DESPERATION ON THE WALL.

It's just so clear that PG & BOD have lost it--going by the way they are raising funds for CCC. Latest is that there will be a "Carnival' as in renting space for Flea Market at The Curve! Then it's "Carnival 09" this & that!!!

Amazing indeed, they think they will raise RM50 Million (?) by such means--going to who ever in the public. The whole CCC fund raising is turning into a Circus alright. Well, not surprising when it's
PG's vision. aka man-made dream in the name of God:(

No doubt CC members will be the ones left carrying the 'baby'--already the G family has their 'escape' plan activated- perhaps under the disguise of 'Sabbatical' leave??? ( watch their discrete step by step move... just don't be too shock)

Hope AOG worldwide is put on alert.

PUT ON THE ARMOUR said...

Another 1st! New Post for Deacon at CC

Being away, I was told that the BOD now has a deacon carrying the portfolio of LEGAL AFFAIRS!

Wow, this surely is yet another 1st for PG, turning CC into a truly SECULAR organisation. Certainly CC is unrecognisable as a 'church'. PG is a master of "TRANSFORMATION"

So PG & his BOD are doing legal battle with its members instead of impacting the nation & transforming lives?

Unthinkable!

Not Moving on Just Yet said...

PG did it again! According to Calvary News, the speaker this morning (Sept 13) for Damansara Perdana was to be Pastor David Seah, which probably explained why the attendance was quite good (compared to services when scheduled speakers were PG, PO or TO). However, to my horror and disappointment, at about 11am, in walked a grinning (or smirking?) PG! Immediately I walk out and others followed. I drove to DUMC and was blessed to listen to the second part of an interesting sermon on worship. The moral: half a good sermon is better than a full uninspired insincere sermon.

Now, how low can the leadership of CC get? This is not the first time in recent months that a similar incident happened. My speculation is that PG knowing that DS and SK are generally better received and would attract a larger attendance, slot himself in by manipulating a last minute change intentionally. DS was in the service, hence it was not that he was unavailable. Furthermore, people have told me that due to recent revelations on the true character of PG, his invitations and engagements to speak in other churches or organisations has reduced tremendously. Hence, to keep himself occupied to justify his high salary, one avenue is to manipulate such that he speaks more frequently in CC and the satellites.

Incidentally, the Deaconess BF was at the door greeting members this morning. This is good but not enough. Do the right thing, and speak out against the unrepentant one. Be bold like the honorable Dr Lum. BF, you have been voted in once more perhaps to provide you one last chance. God will not be patient with you forever, use this chance to do the right thing before it is too late!

In His Time there's a season for everything said...

Thank you "not moving forward just yet" for opening many eyes that stil remain shut nut perhaps ignorant.

I do not respect AP SK nowadays. Why? Because he is also one of them. Were you at the recent AGM and listened to SK's keynote speech about planting a church to reach the wealthy in India. What's wrong with him? For the Glory of Jesus Christ, a good and faithful disciple for Lord Jesus must stand up and be counted for truth transparency and Godly governance.

Not standing up for His Glory is not an option. Whether SK and other pastors visit Calvary Today is not important. What is important is truthful and faithful revelation of the true state of affairs inside the fountainhead Calvary Church at Damansara Heights.

i-news said...

Hi Need Verification,

Didn't notice Pam G in church last sunday. Looks like she's off already. Her daughter was back again recently so she must have followed daughter off to USA. Smell something fishy here? At a crucial fund raising time, darling daugther not around to help daddy out?

To Time Bomb,

They selling at Mont Kiara, the rich with many expat area, not the curve lah. They want foreign currency now.

Ampang Calvarite said...

CC keep asking unstoppable monetary favours from people just to hurt the pockets of faithful believers to give glory to themselves. I've never shared in the vision of CCC since day one. Jesus never asked people for money to build temples. His emphasis was never to build buildings to win the souls of mankind. For those people who buy into the idea of CCC to be used for winning souls and reaching out to nations, then we better get our biblical facts right. Jesus clearly tells us to go spread His word to all the ends of the earth. Today, with net and mobile media, the Word of God can be spread to billions around the world in split seconds. Our mission is to share God's word as fast and effectively as we can.

I'm attending CC on Sundays because my husband still wants to go to CC. For me, I've literally given up on the leadership to change because so many opportunities have been given to them. Yet they never repented. It's like a local organisation run by its founder CEO - PG who tries to influence all the sheep to think that he's god.

Recently the Ampang congregation shifted from Wisma Central to Corus Hotel. Did PG even turn up during our several weeks of massive shifting? Did he even offer some people from DH to help the small Ampang congregation to move and setup the equipment? Nor does he care how people have to arrive every Sunday in church at 7am to move and setup for a 10:30am service. Aren't these people's time precious enough that they could be sleeping like PG instead of having to get all sweaty and tired for 3 full hours before the service? I hope PG doesn't assume that there's always people who will be there to help cause the Ampang folks are also very fed up moving every week, missing time with their families, skipping breakfast, having late lunches, etc.

In a couple more weeks, people will start to leave. And these are the faithful people who have been serving and attending Calvary Ampang for many years!

How can the church leadership even think of such a move without planning for the resources to setup, dismantle and move every Sunday morning and afternoon? Sure - they only assume people will do it all in the "name of Jesus". Hypocrites!

A time bomb said...

i-news, Thanks for the correction on the venue of CCC Fund Raising carnival 09 ala 'flea Market' style.

Sure, Mt. Kiara is the right location (to "fleece", some one remarked) where PG has the Target Audience identified: The Affluent & the ignorant!

Not Moving on Just Yet said...

To Ampang Calvarite,

Thank u for enlightening us on the plight of our dear brothers and sisters from Ampang. I also share your view that a lavish building is not the best way to utilise our finances to spread the Gospel.

Please do not give up on the leadership of CC just yet (PG and family perhaps excluded). I believe that God will use us to put His house in order in due time.

The problem is that at the moment the Associate and Assistant Pastors and Deacons have been misled into thinking that the concerned members including the TTG group are being used by the Devil to cause upheaval in CC. They do not consider that the Devil may actually be using PG and family to tear down CC. Hence one thing all of us 'still hopeful' Calvarites can do at this time is to speak out our views on the wrongdoings of PG to the Associate and Assistant Pastors and Deacons. So if more of us let them know of our true Spirit-convicted feelings, then they must begin to see differently. They must realise that the Devil certainly cannot be more powerful than God, and God will not allow the majority of His faithful servants who are members of CC to serve the Devil's purpose.

I am of the opinion that the Assc and Asst Pastors are at the moment backing PG primarily not because of protecting their ricebowls but because they are still blinded. Let us pray that God will open their eyes and that of the Deacons, and not continue to be used by the Devil through PG to hurt the souls of faithful Calvarites!

ct fan said...

If I'm not wrong, PG's daughter is on 6 weeks leave, not 6 months. And apparently it is unpaid. But we are not duped into thinking she will get 0 for the whole 6 weeks. Don't forget the family's sdn bhd extended ministry. Escape plan? Maybe, possibly.

WHAT"S NEW! said...

to Ampang Calvarite
My heart goes out to all the suffering members under the present 'leadership' of PG, assoc Pastors & BOD.

Indeed, PG, Wife & their 'children' are good at Pep-Talk. There are countless occasions, they merely
offer "encouraging" words. Trust me, in the next available opportunity ( after your comment herein gets reported to him) PG or his wife will make a 'speech'over the pulpit that goes something like this:
" I want you to know, you are a GREAT congregation.. we are so blessed, and we really want you to know, what much we APPRECIATE you--you are faithful in GIVING, SERVING.. we love you...we are TOUCHED by YOUR SACRIFICES ..."!

Well, it should be open knowledge by now, he treats the CC congregation with contempt ( PG's smug expression/body language--leaned back against his chair, arms spread wide across each side, staring down at what he secretly consider a bunch of "dumb" sheeps, betrayed his try hard PR image of a "SHY(?) and ' wonderful' pastor)

As it is said action speaks louder than words. PG can't hide his true self anymore--because when one PRETENDS, one will surely slip-up, as in this case of the Ampang shift-where he & his family members are no where to be found. ( it was observed their frequently VISITATION are MV (mid valley), BV ( bangsar Village) BSC, money changers,
Spa & beauty salon, Gym, fine-dining, coffee with the 'elite' members, or lounging in the comfort of their luxurious residences)

The Guneratnams' are "ARMCHAIR" CEOs of their own "Ministries".

The truth is, dear Ampang Calvarite, what you 'discovered' of PG is really no surprise--just that he has fooled many for too long.

Long Ago Calvarite said...

SP's daughter-in-law when she was still a church staff took off a few months unpaid leaves in order to take care of her baby girl. Heard that out of her own mouth, SP's daughter-in-law told the other staff that she still received salary. The auditors must make sure that this will not happen to Pam also - outwardly no pay leave but secretly still got salary. In other word, no work but still got pay.

S. B Tan said...

Sad to read of all that is happening to the church. Its seems that nowadays public perception of pastor has gone way down. Someone told me, “When I see a monk I see a holy man, but when I see a pastor I see a CEO”. We may laugh at this commend, but from what I have observe, he is spot on.
Okay, Okay that’s over generalization. There are exceptions.

CC is Sdn Bhd said...

Wah, no work but still got pay ah - who doesn't want? Looks like CC is no more a church but a Sdn Bhd belonging to the G's family. Other staff have to work very hard like a kuli in order to earn their little due, while the G's family just boss around and get big fat $$$$$$.

Anonymous said...

Dear all

Remember that the battle belongs to the Lord - PG and his people will reap what they sowed, in His time. Your effort will not be in vain so be encouraged!

I attended CC on and off a few years back. From the start, I felt that PG was building his own empire rather than a church but was told that I had a critical spirit and should change for the better.

The good news is that God is gracious - we can find Him even if the pastors are corrupted. I met wonderful calvarites and received spiritual food from many sermons.

One interesting thing is that whenever I wanted to share my testimony, the inner voice would say something like, "This is neither the place nor time." I thought it was my lack of courage but maybe not?

Anyway, I left CC because of a job change and all along I told myself I was not in a position to judge.

I believe many of those who are still supporting PG are in the same position. Do they know that the so-called rise of PG in status and fame over the years may not be from God at all!

Falling out of grace and into the hands of the destroyer of souls is not worth the however much $$ he has been hoarding.

May God continue to grant courage and wisdom to those whom He has called to speak out in this scandal.

Anonymous said...

When I was in Calvary from 2004 till 2007, PG once preached about "Men cannot love God and Mammoth". I was impress by it and I used this to guide my principle when I am about to succumb to greed. But now I can that PG preach one thing and practice another thing, it is sad. Another message PG preach is against corruption but now I see that he is using the modus operandi CHC Kong Hee is using to build CCC. A few days ago, I asked Ps.SK, how is Calvary Church and I asked him to tell me the truth. He said CC is ok and they are moving into the new building in the first quarter of 2013. I sense that he may not be telling me the truth. Yes, they are moving in but how are they going to pay off the debts? I promised him that when I drop by KL to visit next year (this year, I will be visiting FGA KL), but I will only drop by on a week day and not on Sunday becos I do not want to be deceive by exterior appearance.

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