Christmas Greetings for 2010

PG bulldozes through AGM

Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) once again displayed his autocratic style as he bulldozed his way through another AGM last Friday. After having unconstitutionally and unethically removed 400 members, PG had it comparatively easy with only a handful of concerned members including the Plaintiffs to contend with.

The 5 Plaintiffs present put up a brave front, voicing their concerns on various church issues and questioning the irregularities in the previous AGM and EGM minutes, amidst the occasional jeering from the Church staff and die-hard fans of PG. 

Similar to previous AGM/EGM, PG continued his infamous style of switching off the microphones whenever he wished to stop anyone from speaking further, rudely instructing members to sit down before they could finish their questions or statements and constantly threatening to remove anyone who refuses to sit when instructed.

The meeting began with a motion from the Board of Deacons to ratify the convening of the current AGM session without the issuance of a fresh preliminary notice calling for the AGM. At this point, Bro Joseph stood up to raise the issue of the termination or reclassification of some 400 Voting and Associate members in March this year. He questioned the unconstitutional removal of the 400 members, using rules from an old outdated Church Constitution which has long been repealed and superseded. He contented that the holding of the AGM without the presence of the 400 terminated members is gross injustice and unconstitutional. (The 400 members who had been removed comprised mostly those who had voiced out their concerns on the lack of transparency in the Church and those who had questioned PG's mismanagement of Church funds and his abuse of power.)

Bro Joseph was threatened with removal from the meeting when he persisted in demanding an explanation from PG on the matter. PG had his way and the members then voted to ratify the convening of the AGM. The motion was passed with a handful of objections from the floor.

Clip 1 : Listen to the exchange of words between PG and Bro Joseph in the audio clip below.

Having gotten the approval of the members present to proceed with the AGM,  PG then proceeded with the Agenda for the meeting. At this point, Bro KC stood to inform that he had submitted a Motion of No Confidence in the Senior Pastor but it had been rejected by the Board of Deacons for reasons which are disputable. He requested PG to allow the members present to decide if the motion should be tabled as the members at a General Meeting has full authority under the Constitution to make such a decision. However, PG rejected the request and got Deacon David Peters to explain that the motion was rejected because it was submitted by Bro KC past the prescribed period of 7 days from the date of the original Preliminary Notice of AGM issued in March this year. Apparently Bro KC stood up wanting to clarify the matter but PG suddenly has vision problems and did not see Bro KC standing with his hand raised despite Bro KC standing a mere 20 feet away in front of him. PG quickly proceeded to put the agenda to the vote and it was passed.

Soon after,  the members got to witness the cold-heartedness of  PG when Sis Liza stood to state a point of order but she was asked by PG to clarify her point of order to the usher controlling the microphone, who will then conveyed her statement to PG before he decides if she could speak. Sis Liza questioned the logic of having to talk to a third party when PG is the Chairman and insisted on stating her point of order directly to the Chair. PG then invited her to go onto the stage to talk to him personally. What transpired on stage only Sis Liza and PG knows. An argument ensued and PG ordered a few “bouncers’ to escort her from the stage. Such is the high-handedness of PG.

Clip 2 : Listen to Bro KC’s question and the “personal” conversation on stage between Sis Liza and PG.

The next item concerned the passing of the previous 2009 AGM minutes. During this motion, Bro Teng spoke and questioned the non-inclusion of material amendments to the 2008 EGM minutes which were highlighted at the last 2009 AGM. The amendments had then been agreed to by both PG and the Secretary but conveniently left out again. The material amendments left out related to the eventual utilization of the Indonesian Earthquake Fund for a different purpose which the Board of Deacons deemed as “good business sense” after the rightful return of the funds from PG’s personal Calvary International Ministry (CIM) back to Missions Dept. 

Both Sis Liza and Bro Teng continued to maintain that minutes must always reflect what is actually said but however, PG continued his display of high-handedness and decided to bulldoze his way through and proposed that the minutes be accepted as it is without any amendments. 

This is a dangerous precedent but sadly, the members present voted and passed the minutes without changes. They either voted out of fear or out of blind loyalty or perhaps, they just couldn’t care less. Whatever the reasons, it was certainly a black day for Calvary Church. It is a license for PG to minute what he wants in future and then get the members to endorse it. This is the early signs of a cult when members are no longer able to think rationally but just listen and follow blindly what their leader says.

Clip 3 : Listen to Bro Teng and Sis Liza’s coments on the minutes

Clip 4 : Liza continues to highlight the inaccuracies of the Minutes.

The next item on the agenda was the Treasurer’s Report and the Extended Ministries’ Reports, which were tabled and passed.. During question time, Bro Teng highlighted the fact that the Missions Manual which has been in use all the while, has never been approved by the members at any AGM or EGM. He raised the concern that the Board of Deacons has no jurisdiction over the usage of the Missions Funds and that PG, under the Missions Manual, has full authority over the usage of the funds. PG merely responded that he had always sought the approval of his Deacons on all decisions concerning the utilization of missions funds. If members recall, it is in this weakness in the Missions Fund administration,  is precisely how PG was able to transfer RM1.9 million of Missions Fund into his personal ministry, CIM without the approval or knowledge of the members.

Clip 5  : Listen to Bro Teng’s questions on the Missions Manual

Sis Liza then highlighted that the reporting by the Missions Director also wrongly identified and mixed up the two different entities of CARE and CARED. Sis Liza clarified that CARE (a humanitarian fund) is a ministry set up under the Missions Dept many years ago while CARED is subsidiary of CIM which was formed much later. Pas Steven, however, clarified the opposite but later, admitted that he spoke from his own knowledge and that he will check out the matter. Sis Liza offered to meet and show him the evidence. It was the close semblance of name of these two entities which caused much confusion when it was first discovered that funds from CARE (started by the church missions department) had been moved to CARED (started by PG under his personal ministry CIM). This was part of the RM1.9 million transferred from the Missions Fund to CIM.

Clip 5 : Listen to Sis Liza's explanation on CARE and CARED

The election of Deacons was carried out smoothly with Bro Stephen Liu and Bro Edward Rajasingam being re-elected and Bro Chow Sang Hoe (past church auditor) being elected. The meeting was also informed of Bro Philip Tan’s resignation from the Board.

The resolutions for the appointment of external auditors to audit the main Church accounts and the Extended Ministries’ accounts were passed without objection.

The last item on the agenda was the report on the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC).

The members were informed that new contractors have been appointed to complete Phase 1A which comprises the Reinforced Foundation, Roof and Steel Structure and Fascade and Wall Cladding. Phase 1B will consists of Mechanical and Electrical Works, Architectural Works and Interior Design Works. The estimated date of completion of both phases is sometime in 2013. 

Phase 1A will cost RM75.3 million while Phase 1B will cost RM79.8 million. The new expenditure of  Phase 1A and Phase 1B totalling RM155.1 million together with the costs incurred todate of RM35.8 million, committed fees of RM7.7 million and land costs of RM35 million will result in a total costs of RM233.6 million. For this total costs, we will ONLY SEE  the completion of the 5,000 seat auditorium WITHOUT the education block, office, recreational facilities and all the ancillary facilities. 

Due to the receipt of only RM6 million in advances from members as opposed to PG’s target of RM35 million, the Church has to now borrow RM35 million from a bank and borrow a further RM47 million or sell an equivalent amount of Church assets to just complete Phase 1A and 1B, i.e just the Auditorium. Is the Church heading for financial disaster?

The meeting ended at about 10.30pm.

A NOTE OF THANKS: 

CT appreciates the help of several members who attended the AGM last Friday in 

coming out with this article. This is because the Administrators, were among  the 400 sacked members, therefore were unable to attend the meeting. CT also wishes to thank the members who sent in recordings of the meeting. It is comforting to know that among the existing members and leaders, there is still a remnant of concerned Christians with a Godly conscience. May God bless them richly!

2010 AGM - Report in progress

Any AGM News said...

Calvary Today,

Please let us know what happened at AGM last night. We have been reclassified to inactive members list so not allowed to attend AGM.
We have been praying for God's intervention to happen... and trusting that God is working something beyond our imagination!

October 2, 2010 11:06 AM

CT's Reply.

We are in the midst of collecting information from various people who attended the AGM last night and will put out a report as soon as possible, as the Administrators of CT were also among the 400 members who were reclassified and therefore were unable to attend last night's AGM.

We would most likely be able to put out a report sometime next week. 

Meanwhile, tomorrow being the Lord's Day, let us be found in the Lord's house to give Him due praise, honor and worship with all of our hearts.

God Bless

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

ADULLAM'S CAVE: A PLACE OF ISOLATION FOR A REVELATION.

Dear TTG, - ‘rejected but not forgotten’

To David, the cave of Adullam was a symbol of rejection. He had been rejected by his family and he was in constant danger in the royal court. The only save place for him and his followers was a dark, lonely cave.

Moses too was rejected by his people and had to hide in the ‘backside of the desert’. Read church history and know that the path of rejection is the high road to untold blessings.

TTG too now has been ‘rejected’ by the present leadership ……………. But we too like you KNOW that “God is working something beyond our imagination!”

It is beyond my comprehension how leadership can be so cruel and remove members from the Church registry but it has happened MANY TIMES! My wife and I could not imagine the church we had once served so faithfully many years ago could throw us out. But it happened and YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT IT WAS THE LORD WHO HAD HARDENED THE HEARTS OF THE LEADERSHIP TO REMOVE YOU FROM THE MEMBERSHIP. What HE does now you will not understand BUT later you will.

WE THANK THE LORD DAILY THAT HE CAUSED THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR PREVIOUS CHURCH TO REJECT US. WE NEVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED THE UNTOLD BLESSINGS THAT THE LORD HAS PREPARED FOR US WHEN WE WERE REMOVED.

LIKEWISE – TTG – LIKE DAVID, MOSES, PAUL ETC. YOU HAVE BEEN REJECTED BY MEN BUT NOT BY GOD. THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BUILDING - YOU ARE THE CHURCH AND LIKE DAVID, MOSES, PAUL ETC. HE WILL RESTORE THE CHURCH TO THE RIGHTFUL PLACE.

DAVID, MOSES, PAUL ALL WERE RETURNED TO THE VERY PLACE THEY WERE REJECTED. YOU ARE NOT CALLED TO START ANOTHER CALVARY CHURCH. YOU ARE TO TRUST THE LORD TO RETURN YOU TO THE VERY CHURCH THAT HAS NOW REMOVED YOU. DAVID DID NOT START ANOTHER KINGDOM. GOD REJECTED SAUL AND DAVID BECAME KING. GOD REMOVED PHAROAH AND MOSES BECAME THEIR LEADER.

DO NOT LOOSE HEART BUT REJOICE FOR THE LORD HAS UNTOLD BLESSINGS FOR YOU. YOU WILL ONE DAY LOOK BACK AND THANK THE LORD FOR THE PRESENT CIRCUMSTANCES. YOU WILL WALK ONE DAY WITH YOUR HEADS HELD UP HIGH AND SEE THE SPOILS OF YOUR LABOUR. YOUR WORK IS NOT IN VAIN. THEY WHO REJECTED YOU WILL ONE DAY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT GOD WAS ON YOUR SIDE BUT THEY DID NOT SEE IT. MANY OF YOUR ENEMIES WILL REPEANT AND ASK YOUR FORGIVENESS BUT OTHERS WILL BE LOST FOREVER.

God always will allow certain situations to knock us out of your comfort zones in order for Him to reposition us for the Prophetic place of DESTINY.

REJOICE BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHOSE NAMES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM CALVARY CHURCH. YOU ARE ALL DESTINED FOR GREATER WORKS. DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED BUT REJOICE AND SING PRAISES TO THE LORD. MY WIFE AND I SHARE THIS FROM EXPERIENCE. EVERY DARK DAYS OF OUR LIVES, EVERY DISAPPOINTMENT, EVERY FRIEND WHO HAD BETRAYED US – ALL WE THANK THE LORD BECAUSE OUT OF THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL –GOD HAD PREPARED A TABLE OF UNTOLD BLESSINGS IN THE WILDERNESS IN THE PRESENCE OF OUR ENEMIES!

THE SECRET IS NOT YOUR FAITH BUT THE FAITH OF GOD. IT IS HIS FAITH THAT WILL DELIVER YOU. TO THE PRESENT LEADERSHIP, THEY THINK YOUR FOOTPRINTS IN THE SANDS OF CALVARY CHURCH ARE GONE FOREVER. BUT THEY FORGET IT IS ONLY BECAUSE GOD IS NOW CARRYING YOU. IT IS HIS FAITH THAT WILL SUSTAIN YOU PROVIDED YOU BELIEVE IN GOD AND NOT YOURSELF. ONE DAY YOUR FOOTPRINTS WILL RETURN!

PS. I HAVE NO FAITH IN MY FAITH. I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF GOD.

Vijay

October 3, 2010 7:44 AM

Did AOG Malaysia Lie to the Court?

On 5 July 2010, the Kuala Lumpur High Court had allowed Assemblies of God’s (AOG) application to strike out the Originating Summons which cited them as the Third Defendant. This means that the Court agreed that the AOG is not a party to the case.


The 7 Plaintiffs, who are concerned members of Calvary Church, had included the AOG as the Third Defendant on the basis that the AOG is the supreme body of all the Assemblies of God churches in Malaysia including Calvary Church and as the supreme body, they ought to look after the welfare of the members of their member-churches.


All the concerned members of Calvary Church are naturally disappointed with the Court’s decision as they strongly hold to the belief that the AOG should take responsibility and intervene in the affairs of Calvary Church which has become a joke in the Christian community. The AOG’s act of applying to Court to strike out the Plaintiff’s inclusion of them as the Third Defendant is testament of their “couldn’t-care-less” attitude. The shame is on the AOG and their Executive Council members.


But what shocked the CT team were The Statements made by the AOG in their sworn Affidavits filed in Court. In their attempt to “wash their hands off” the matter, they resorted to twisted interpretation of their Constitution and telling half-truths.


The following are some of what the AOG has stated in their sworn Affidavits:-


1. AOG not responsible for Calvary Church


AOG claimed that Calvary Church is only affiliated to AOG and that it has no authority over Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam or the Board of Deacons (BOD).


A) AOG Constitution Article III, Aims and Objects, states under (D):
“To have the right to establish churches and provide for their development…”


B) Article V.A.3 of their Bylaws further states:
“The church shall submit its annual report of its progress and financial statement to the General Council.”


Does this not mean that Calvary Church is established by AOG and under its control?


Isn’t it a fact that all pastors of AOG churches are ordained by the AOG and receive their credentials from them?


The mere fact that the AOG can remove and have, in the past, removed the credentials of their AOG pastors is evident of their authority over their AOG pastors.


2. Calvary Church members are not Members of AOG Malaysia


They denied that the AOG Malaysia is a family to members of Calvary Church and stated that Calvary Church members are not members of AOG Malaysia.


Their Article VI, Membership of the AOG of Malaysia says:


A. “The membership of the AOG of Malaysia shall consist of all ministers….”


B. “The membership shall also consist of all members of local assemblies which have been set in order by a duly constituted official of the AOG of Malaysia and have been granted a Certificate of Affiliation.”


Article VII (B) even provides for one lay delegate to be sent from each sovereign church to attend and vote at the AOG General Council.


Yet they submitted to the Court that Calvary Church members are not members of the AOG.


3. Calvary Church Constitution not approved by AOG Malaysia


They denied that Calvary Church’s Constitution was approved by them. They denied that they are a party to the Calvary Church Constitution. They claimed that they only endorsed the Constitution based solely on the approval and acceptance of the Calvary Church Constitution by the church members.


Their Article V.C.1 clearly states:


“Amendments to the constitution (of local church) may be made at any general meeting of the church provided that the proposed amendments have been submitted in writing to all voting members of the church at least one month before the meeting in question. The proposed and accepted amendments will only come into effect after a written approval of the Executive Committee of the General Council has been given”

Their submission to Court clearly contradicted what is stated in their Constitution. If they “only endorsed the church constitution based solely on the approval and acceptance of the church members”, then why is there a need for a written approval of the Executive Committee of the AOG for amendments to the churches’ Constitutions? This is clearly twisting the facts.


4. Calvary Church Attendance Figures


In the AOG Commemorative Year Book 2002, they had stated that Calvary Church has 10,000 members. In their sworn affidavit filed in Court, they told the Court that Calvary Church has only more than 1000 members and its regular service were attended by more than 3000 persons.


So if the figures they stated in the affidavit are true, then did they lie in the Commemorative Year Book? Obviously so, especially bearing in mind that in the 48-year history of Calvary Church, they have never ever had such a large membership!


5. Ronnie Chin’s Role at the AGM


They admitted that their Assistant General Superintendent Pastor Ronnie Chin met with some of the Calvary Church Deacons before the 2009 AGM but claimed that it was only for him to be briefed. They denied that it was for these Deacons and Ronnie Chin to strategize how to throw out the Resolutions from the concerned members.


The fact still remains that 6 out of 7 Resolutions were thrown out by Ronnie Chin on the request by Philip Tan (on behalf of the BOD) at the AGM.


Was there a conspiracy between Ronnie Chin who was representing the AOG and these Deacons?


Did the AOG lie to the court?


Certainly looks obvious. Anyway you look at it, the fact that Ronnie Chin was briefed by the Deacons beforehand goes against the very basic principle of corporate governance, ethics and transparency and reflect very badly on the AOG.


6. Coup d’etat


This is the mother of lies!


The AOG claimed that the High Court proceedings taken by the Plaintiffs appeared to be an attempt by a minority of just 69 members to try to take over control of the Church against the wishes of the majority.


There has never been any Resolution proposed to place any of the concerned members onto the Board of Deacons. There was never any attempt to remove the Deacons from their position. In fact for the 2009 AGM, the concerned members advised the church members to vote wisely to place responsible Deacons on the Board.


One of the Proposed Resolutions actually called for the intervention of the AOG into the affairs of Calvary Church and to manage the Church. Certainly none of the Plaintiffs has any desire to pastor or to take control of Calvary Church.


Some of the Plaintiffs are personally known to some of the Executive Council members and these Council Members know that there is no such intention by the Plaintiffs.


The AOG therefore, knows this is a blatant lie and yet they can swear this under oath. Where is their conscience and Christian principles? It is sad indeed that a national Christian body like AOG which represents the largest growing Christian denomination in Malaysia can stooped this low.


It is even more sad to a few of the Plaintiffs who had done so much for the AOG and Bible College of Malaysia (BCM) and were actually in very good terms with AOG and BCM.


From what we have gathered, one of the 7 Plaintiffs was instrumental in acquiring the building in which the AOG Headquarters today occupies. This Plaintiff personally raised half of the Purchase Price of this building. He also helped out financially many times towards the needs of BCM.


Another one of the 7 Plaintiffs bought a brand new van for BCM a couple of years ago. Today that vehicle is still being used to ferry BCM students around and for missions work. This same person has also helped out financially many times towards the needs of BCM. He also sponsored the entire cost of the AOG Widows’ Fund-raising dinner held last year.


It is certainly ironic or rather the humour of God to have chosen the above two Plaintiffs, out of the thousands of Christians in Malaysia, years before this Calvary Saga started, to be a channel of His blessings to AOG and BCM. There must be a lesson that God wants us to learn from and a message He wants us to heed and follow in this test that God has placed before us all as Christians and as Church organizations through this CCC – Calvary Church Crisis!


Whatever the outcome of the Originating Summons is, it does not matter to the concerned members and the Plaintiffs. It is not their battle but the Lord’s. But through this chain of events, one can clearly see that God is certainly in control. The true colours and character of the Church leaders are being exposed today. God is cleansing His Church in Malaysia and in His time, we shall all see His glory and His purposes for His Church in this land.

Footnote: After this article was published, CT received a request from one of the above two Plaintiffs to delete the mention of his contributions to AOG and BCM. Much as CT appreciates the wish of the person to remain anonymous, CT is of the opinion that since no names were mentioned, the anonymity of the person remains intact. CT wishes to elaborate that the purpose was not to highlight the contributions or the contributor but to expose the ungratefulness, nonchalance and gutlessness of the AOG leaders when push comes to shove.

Court Of Appeal Decision

The appeal by the 7 Plaintiffs (concerned church members) and the cross appeal by the Respondents (Pastor Prince and the Board of Deacons) on the matter of the Interlocutory Injunction was heard before the Court of Appeal this morning.

After hearing the submissions from both the Plaintiffs and Respondents’ lawyers, the Court dismissed both the appeal of the Plaintiffs and cross appeal of the Respondents.

The Court commented that these interlocutory proceedings and actions were unnecessary and ordered both parties to return to the High Court and seek an early trial for the Originating Summons.

In dismissing the appeal by the Plaintiffs for the reinstatement of the 400 terminated or reclassified church members, the Court stated that this issue should not be part of this proceeding as the termination or reclassification of the 400 members occurred after the Originating Summons was filed. This issue should be pursued as a separate court action.

The Court rejected the cross appeal by the Respondents against the reinstatement of the 7 Plaintiffs by the High Court. The church membership of the 7 Plaintiffs, therefore, remain reinstated.

The most interesting statement made by the Court in summing up their decision was that the AGM is the supreme authority in any organization. In simple terms, this means that the members in an AGM has full authority over everything else including the Board of Directors or Deacons, in our case.

To recap, an Originating Summons was on filed on 12 November by the Plaintiffs against the Respondents to seek the High Court’s ruling for the following:-

i. that the AGM held on 19th and 20th June 2009 be declared null and void;

ii. that the committee members appointed during the AGM held on 19th and 20th June 2009 be annulled and be declared void;

iii. that the Defendants convene an EGM within 30days from the date of the Court Order for the tabling of the resolutions which had been submitted by the Plaintiffs;

iv. that the removal of Dr. Lum Siew Heng as a member of Calvary Church on 20th March 2009 be annulled and to be declared void.

The Originating Summons is currently fixed for mention on 23 September 2010. At this mention, both parties will be seeking an early date for trial.

Please continue to uphold the matter in prayer.

Hearing of Appeal fixed on 23 August

The Hearing of our Appeal will be held on Monday 23rd August 2010 and it will be an OPEN Court of Appeal hearing (this means that you can sit in to listen to the proceedings).
All our previous court proceedings had always been held in Chambers (i.e. only the lawyers meeting with the judge); thus, this is the 1st time that it is open to you and the interested public.


The details of the Court of Appeal hearing are as follows:

Date                 : Monday 23 August 2010

Time                 : 8.30am

Venue               : Mahkamar Persekutuan Malaysia

                          Presint 3, Istana Kehakiman, 62506 Putrajaya

                          Tel 03 8880 3500

Please remember to pray for the Court Hearing on Monday, and if possible, be there to lend your moral support and to bring the presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling is us, into the Court Room.  

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

August 22, 2010 4:42 PM

DECLARE VICTORY BY THE FAITH OF GOD!

Christ spoke such a word as this. He spoke it once to a fig tree: "Let no one eat fruit from you ever again" (Mark 11:14). Next day Peter noted that it had withered, and he commented, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree which you cursed has withered away." Now note what Christ said, in effect: "You go and do the same. I spoke the word of authority with which I am equipped by the indwelling Father [see John 14:10ff]. Now you speak it also." His actual words were, "HAVE THE FAITH OF GOD. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be removed, and be cast into the sea; ... he shall have whatsoever he says" (Mark 11:23).


Thus Christ said, "Say unto this mountain." "SAY," not "pray." The word is most significant. The thought is not that all prayer should be omitted (for the Word counsels us to pray) but that prayer should not be from an attitude of feeling that one has not and therefore has needs.


Saying the word of faith is the attitude of one who has and dispenses what he has. Such is the "throne life". A throne is occupied by a king. A king is a possessor and dispenser of gifts. This is why we who are believers and joined to Christ -- He the head, we the members of one Body, physically on earth, spiritually enthroned -- are told that we are "kings ... unto God" and "seated in the heavenlies."


THE PRINCIPLE INVOLVED CANNOT BE APPLIED ARBITRARILY TO JUST ANY NEED IN THE WHOLE WORLD, BUT RATHER TO THE SPHERE FOR WHICH GOD IN HIS GRACE HAS MADE YOU INDIVIDUALLY RESPONSIBLE.


Then, according to the needs of your calling and sphere of life and service, speak forth the word of faith. Call the things that be not as though they were. Carry out Mark 11:24: "Whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them."


I think we who stand for TTG and called to intercede for Calvary Church should declare ‘VICTORY' no matter what the outcome tomorrow and go forth knowing that He will accomplish what we have declared by authoritative faith for this is why His SON died and shed His blood for - TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF SATAN.


Is not present events at Calvary Church "A WORK OF SATAN"? Yet, ordained by the Lord for His purposes. Satan is only His tool, and we the righteous sons/daughters of God should shout Victory. We cannot accept defeat - no matter what the Court declares.


What if the declaration does not happen? What if the court rules against us? My friends understand what AUTHORITATIVE FAITH IS!


"Have the faith of God" is the literal meaning in the margin of the Authorized KJV and this conveys the vital meaning more clearly than just "have faith in God," as in the KJV text. For to "have faith IN God" means just a reliance on the ability of God in His heaven and a leaving it to Him to do it. But to "have the faith OF God" means to recognize an indwelling God, i.e. to realize that we have His mind, and that by the inspiration of His Spirit we speak forth with our human lips the word of believing faith, of authority!


We are not operating by OUR faith but HIS faith and hence the responsibility for the outcome of our declaration is HIS! He is responsible to RESOLVE THE PRESENT CRISIS IN CALVARY CHURCH. If we believe God has already destroyed satan at Calvary, all the negatives we see in the natural world are just ILLUSIONS! In the Spiritual world satan is already defeated. Calvary Church is already a victorious church etc. So satan may win battles but we have already won the war!


LORD WE "SAY" YOU MOVE THE MIND OF MEN AND COURSE THE COURT TO RULE IN OUR FAVOUR TOMORROW (Monday 23th August 2010).


This is what I have learned from Norman Grubb and hence I declare victory no matter what the court declares. I will continue to declare Calvary Church as a victorious church and the present crisis resolved.


Vijay

*****************************************************

On a different note but addressing a relevant issue which was brought up by a reader who identified himself/herself as Scott J. We thank our gracious God and the quick response from our dear Brother in Christ, Vijay for a simple yet direct answer.

We now extract these two comments which were posted in the previous article here because we believe that the questions and concerns raised by Scott J may be issues that many of you as Christians grapple with within yourselves.

Scott J said...

I have been following your plight over the happenings in Calvary Church, and in the face of ‘apparent’ injustice with all the evidence that is presented on this site, it is hard to dispute the findings. I believe that your motives in seeking justice are justified, but amidst your frustrations, we have to ask ourselves what has happened to our faith in God to bring about justice? I know that you initially did what was stated in Matthew 18: 15-17, and you may have tried that but have not succeeded, but to put your plight on the internet and the newspapers, it goes beyond the confines of the church. Even with the hard evidence that is presented, many of us have failed and have fallen into the trap of “judging” in our hearts through what we see with our own eyes through this site. 

Just spare a heart’s thought about these: 

a) Have we forgotten about our faith in God to bring about justice?

b) Even if we have, have we, to a certain extent through this site, taken matters into our own hands? 

c) Is what is being done here on the internet bringing glory to God or tearing down the church, not just yours, but to others as well? 

d) Many others, particularly unbelievers, are observing the happenings within Calvary and there is a generalized sentiment that Christians behave in this manner, could this be a factor to build up a barrier of distrust toward those who are out there working to shine forth God’s light to the unbelievers? 

Before continuing, we have to ask ourselves with a heart’s thought: With your plight being aired out here on the internet and the ‘bickering’ (forgive my usage of this term due to the lack of a better word), “How does God feel about this?” our lack of faith in His timing and His purposes? As to the rest of us, let us seek God and ask God how He feels about us being a spectator and potential contributors to add fuel to the flames.

August 18, 2010 11:15 AM

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

THE BIBLE TELLS IT ALL.

I sometimes think, we Christians impose more stringent standards than even what God imposes in what we may communicate.

The Bible is still the number one CONTENT presented in multimedia (audio, visual and paper). If God sees fit to tell to the whole world in MULTIMEDIA the SINS of HIS CHILDREN (David a murderer and adulterer, Moses a murder, etc), I find insufficient grounds to stop people in sharing the real happenings in the Christian world!

In fact, I believe the Lord wants the world to know what is really happening so that WHEN HE ACTS - ALL WILL KNOW THE CHRISTIAN GOD IS A JUST AND FAITHFUL GOD. Then they will worship Him.

Just imagine if there was no CT or TTG or no reports in the Newspapers etc. - the world will not hear the TRUTH and they will not know that there is a LIVING GOD who ANSWERS THE PRAYERS OF HIS CHILDREN.

Let us have spiritual discernment and not muzzle the voice of His Children!

Vijay

(Of course - any unkind words or personal attacks should be edited out!)

August 18, 2010 11:13 PM

As the Administrators of CT, we have tried our best to remind those who post comments to do so with consideration and to refrain from making personal attacks, name calling and unkind words. We have withheld releasing many comments made by both TTG sympathizers and pro-PG readers because we cannot "edit out" comments as this function is not provided for by Blogger.

We noticed that this function may have been added in since this week but we have yet to try it out. However, we will still maintain that we will not release any comment that we deem is not appropriate or relevant to our cause.

On yet another note, we are always in awe of how God has led us and is still leading us step by step here in CT. You may or may not be aware that CT was first created as a communication tool to keep the concerned members of Calvary Church abreast with what is happening behind the whole facade of Calvary Church and the TTG brothers and sisters' pursuit of Truth, Transparency and Good Governance in the administration of the Church.

God has been with us and He has constantly provided us with relevant materials useful for that particular moment to be published as updates to our fellow Calvary Church members who are in "diaspora" seeking "religious asylum" in various churches in and around Kuala Lumpur. Here's a word of encouragement for us to ponder on.

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

SEE GOD IN EVERYTHING!

I know the pain many are going through because of events at Calvary Church. I have been there and I too had my own share of waiting when there were leadership problems in churches. It is always natural; the first reaction is "TO DO SOMETHING!" As so did I! But the Lord also wanted me to trust Him after having done all that I could! Part of spiritual maturity is knowing when to grow from 'DOING' to 'BEING'!

We will suffer as we wait and the only way out of the suffering is to see GOD ONLY in all things. Spiritual maturity is required to understand this faith principle.

When we arrive at this place of faith, we stop asking questions why Calvary Church and the congregation is suffering through this crisis. We boldly accept by faith that the Lord has WILLED present events at Calvary!

(NOTE I said WILLED - NOT PERMITTED i.e. GOD HAD PURPOSED IT! - now this is a difficult principle to accept and I know there will be some who may not agree with me but it is OK as I am writing this just as the Lord had directed me and leave the consequences in His hands.)

The Bible says:
"Though HE were a Son, yet learned HE obedience by the things which HE suffered" (Hebrews 5:8)

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" (Hebrews 12:6,7).

God "tested" Abraham in the realm of self-love, self-will and trust in self. He wanted to know whether Abraham had total faith in God!

This present trial at Calvary is not really about the misdeeds of the leadership but about HIS FAITHFUL SONS AND DAUGHTERS - WILL YOU TRUST HIM. He will deal with the rogue leaders but before He does that HE wants to know whether HIS CHILDREN WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE FAITH IN HIM. That is what GOD IS AFTER - YOUR FAITH IN HIM!.

It was God who DIRECTED Joseph to prison. His brothers and others were just the Lord's tools to accomplish His purposes – to eventually bring them back to the Promised Land. Paul, Moses, David, etc were all DIRECTED by God into the wilderness – and so will we.

And so today. The faithful ones in Calvary are His remnants and the rogue leaders and people associated with these are just HIS TOOLS. Read you Bible and you will notice after God had used them to accomplish His purposes, He destroyed them!

I believe God had purposed to raise a new band of Christians in Malaysia because those presently in power do not have the leadership quality He needs to raise the spiritual barometer in Malaysia. HE NEEDS FRESH SONS & DAUGHTERS!

(I have been accused of being too hash with the “enemies” of God but friends – I have seen what the Lord has done with MY 'enemies' and believe me – IT IS A TERRIBLE THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. I PITY THEM BECAUSE SOMETIMES HE EVEN CALLS THEM HOME BEFORE THEIR TIME!)

Those who speak of God’s love don’t really understand that God’s LOVE also means HE MUST BE JUST!

Vijay

August 18, 2010 10:34 PM

God is Good All the Time!

The Big Question ?

Many Calvarites will remember the infamous theatrical alabaster jar-breaking act of Senior Pastor Prince (PG) a few years ago on Easter Sunday at Stadium Putra.

That Sunday was the launch of a major fund-raising campaign for the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) project and PG wanted to impress the congregation with his “sacrificial” pledge of 9 months of his salary towards the CCC building fund. In an unashamed display of haughtiness, he took an alabaster jar and broke it to symbolize his “sacrificial” giving, trying to replicate the sacrificial act of the woman in the Bible who broke her alabaster jar of expensive perfume and poured it on Jesus’ head.

Many in the crowd in the stadium applauded PG’s act of sacrifice but little did they realize that his sacrifice of 9 months of salary will not affect him much. His dear wife, Sis Petrina was still drawing a big monthly salary of RM10,000 which is more than what senior pastors in other similar-size churches earn. For two persons, this amount of salary is more than adequate to live on, considering that they have no financial commitments and their cars’ petrol and maintenance costs are all taken care of by the Church. There are many members who feed their families and pay their housing and car loans and everything else on much less income.

What the members also do not know was what took place subsequently in the Church office. Because PG sacrificed his salary for 9 months, the Church staff were encouraged to buy lunch for him as often as they could!

Towards the end of that year, the Board of Deacons, in “recognition of PG’s great sacrifice” took a special Christmas love offering from the congregation to bless him. And like a big hero, PG “humbly” accepted it and immediately announced that he is giving the entire love offering to CCC. The entire episode is worthy of a grammy award.

Now, with that background story and in the light of the latest fund-raising campaign, many Calvarites are watching to see what “sacrificial” advance PG will be giving this time.

Clip 1 : Ask and ask big

At the combined services in Sime Darby Convention Centre two Sundays ago, PG announced that his CCC committee members and the Deacons have made advances totaling RM3 million to the CCC. While this may appear to be a large amount, we must take cognizance of the fact that several of the committee members and deacons are millionaires with a few owning fairly large multi-million dollar businesses. Therefore, RM3 million advances from this group is commendable but nothing to shout about. However, the interesting thing to note about this announcement is that PG, himself a millionaire, did not state whether he made any advance and if he did, how much.

Clip 2 : Tremendous sacrifice (?)

The fact that PG is a millionaire is undeniable. His local properties alone are worth at least RM6 to 7 million. The value of his local assets can be easily quantified. His present 3-storey semi-detached house in Bangsar is worth RM4 to 5 million. His Taman Tun house where his daughter, Pam was living in, has just been sold for RM1.2 million. Another house in Bangsar where his son, Jim lives, also belongs to him and this is worth easily RM1.2 to 1.5 million. He is said to own other properties besides the above.


The value of his overseas properties is not known. The amount of money he has in his local as well as overseas bank accounts is also unknown. Since he has never declared to the Church the love offerings he has received, there is, therefore, no way to ascertain the amount of wealth he has amassed overseas.


When Pas Robert Lim of Singapore came to preach just two services in Calvary Church on one Sunday in 2003, the Church gave him a love gift of S$10,000 (read the CT article on 3 April 2009). If we use this as a benchmark, the amount of love offerings that PG would have received over the last 40 years from his overseas preaching engagements, can be fairly substantial.


The deacons have mentioned before that his personal ministry, Calvary International Ministries (CIM) also has bank accounts in Singapore and USA but we have no way of verifying the bank balances there. Nevertheless, it is safe to estimate PG’s total wealth to be in the region of at least RM10 million. Bearing in mind that he has no known borrowings, he is certainly a very rich man.


It is therefore, of great interest to members to know how much advance he has pledged or made to the CCC project this time. After all, he is the Senior Pastor and the CCC is his vision and it is only appropriate that he leads by example.


The amount of advance he commits to the CCC compared to his wealth will be a good yardstick for the ordinary members to follow if they believe in his vision and want to participate in this “Give an Advance” campaign.


The big question on everyone’s lips is how much is PG advancing to the CCC. Is it RM1 million, RM2 million, RM3 million or more?


So Prince Guneratnam, can you answer our BIG QUESTION, please?


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We thank our reader who used the pseudonym "Discovery Channel" for these photos of the November-December 1993 issue of Calvary News. This article written back in 1993 welcoming Pam G and her husband and daughter back to Malaysia after being away for 7 to 8 years in the USA for studies is proof of PG's wealth even back then.

It takes a very rich man to be able to afford to support a daughter's overseas studies for 7 to 8 years. In PG's case, he not only need to finance his daughter's study and living expenses, he also had to finance the bringing up of a granddaughter, who spent the first 4 years of her life in the USA. To top this, his son Jim was also studying in the USA about the same time. 


As we recall, PG and wife also took one year sabbatical leave to be with his children and granddaughter in the USA. Of course, the members were told that he was there to do a Masters degree.  Now, this is indeed the lifestyle of the rich.

Audio Clips from CCC Fund-raising Services

In the previous posting, we published a summary submitted by a reader of what transpired on Sunday, 4 July’s Fund-raising at the Sime Darby Convention Centre. Those who attended that Sunday Service thinking that it was a usual Worship Service were in for a surprise. The entire sermon was tailored to make the people “feel good” about themselves. “We are a people with a destiny … We are on an assignment that God has given us…” Every sentence was carefully crafted with one purpose in mind, to persuade the members to give money to the building of the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC), the vision of PG.

Here are the sound clips of what Bro Han Joke Kwang and Senior Pastor Prince (PG) said at the services about the advances for the CCC. Almost the entire long-winded altar call by PG was to cajole the members to give to the CCC. Both offerings collected during the two services on that Sunday were also channeled to the CCC.

Clip 1 : Listen to what HJK and PG said about the members of Calvary Church

What Bro Han Joke Kwang said (with CT's comments in blue)

Bro Han explained that Bank Negara approval has been obtained to allow the Church to collect short term interest-free advances from members only for the construction of the CCC. All advances must be put in by 30 September 2010 and will be a fixed period of up to 5 years until 2015.

Advances will be repaid to members within 30 days of the maturity date or within 30 days in the event of death of the member. Upon maturity, members may choose to extend the advance subject to repayment by 30 September 2015 which is the final repayment date set by Bank Negara. Members may choose to convert their advances into a contribution at any time before or upon maturity. The terms of the Advances will be documented in a Statement of Understanding.

The Church expects to receive advances of between RM10,000 to RM100,000 from 60% of the members to achieve the target of RM35 million. This will save the Church at least RM8 million in interest saving. Of course, he did not elaborate that this means the burden of this RM8 million interest saving is indirectly passed on to the members either in the form of loss in potential investment income or loan interest to be paid to the bank by the member if he/she chooses the unwise route of taking a bank loan to advance to the Church.

Bro Han advised members to provide adequately for their own personal needs during their participating period of the advance. In other words, if the members get into financial difficulties during the tenure of the advance, the Church is unlikely to help them out or repay their advances early. Members should heed this warning seriously as the world economic outlook is not looking good at this moment and there are expectations and forecasts of an impending worldwide recession. As CT has stated earlier, if members wish to give an advance, give only what you can afford to lose.

The repayment of the RM35 million advances will be from cash flow surpluses of the Church or if need be, from the sale or refinance of the Church properties valued at RM52 million. As the surplus income over expenses is reducing drastically due to the falling attendances and members becoming wise, the possibility of the Church having to sell its properties is real.
 This is a deviation from the original plan when CCC was first mooted. Members were assured then that the main Damansara Heights church and possibly Damansara Perdana church will not be closed or sold even after the CCC is built. Sis Petrina, had in the past, also assured members that Damansara Heights building will continue to be used for Sunday services, small meetings and to hold wedding services.


The reality now is that, the CALVARY CHURCH that God has built in the last 48 years (and not 40 years as PG claimed in his sermon) may be gone for good. In its place, the iconic CCC (if completed) will stand to the glory of PG and the freemason architect and not to the glory of God as PG, Sis Petrina and the Deacons have always proclaimed. How can a building not even known as a church bring glory to God? How many non-Christians will actually know what the name “Calvary” means if it does not have the word “Church” attached to it?


In the presentation, Bro Han did not explain the costs and expenditure of the CCC project. He did not clarify what the RM35 million advances and the existing cash balance in the bank can achieve.

According to a reliable source, the Church needs RM70 to RM80 million just to construct the roof and walls on a shell and core basis. To be able to have a proper sanctuary (of less than 5,000 seats) to worship in, the Church needs a further RM30 million. Where this money will come from, no one has any idea. We can only assume by our calculation, the Church will have to draw down on the Alliance Bank loan facility of RM35 million. If this bank loan is taken up, then all the main properties will become encumbered as the bank loan is secured by the properties.


If this happens and the Church sells the properties later, the sale proceeds cannot be used to repay the members’ advances as the bank will have the first right over the sale proceeds. Our beloved Church is certainly in dire straits!

Clip 2 : HJK introduction of the "Advance To CCC"

What PG said during altar call (with CT's comments in blue)

During the long-winded altar call, PG psyched up the congregation into giving an advance as well as renewing their contribution pledge to the CCC building fund. He told the members it is a wonderful privilege to be able to give an advance to the CCC. He gave suggestions on the many ways the members can bring an advance in, namely from:

1) money that they have kept aside
2) money that they can have access to
3) money that they have that can pay up an existing personal loan
4) to take a loan

Members should exercise wisdom in this area of giving and financial stewardship. Money which you have kept aside for a rainy day or for your children’s education or for your retirement or for whatever purposes should remain kept by members for the purposes it was intended. Please remember that providing for your family’s welfare or for your future is biblical. It is not “hoarding up treasures on earth”.

We do not know what PG meant by “money that we can have access to”. If you are in a position of trust like a Fund Manager or the Treasury Officer or Accountant of your company, please do not touch the money which is entrusted to you or under your control. Do not entertain the thought that God has placed you where you are for a time such as this.

If you have money to pay off an existing loan, please do so. Please do not channel it to CCC and continue to be in debt. Lastly, do not take out a loan to give an advance to CCC. It is not a wise thing to do.

PG stated that “I don’t want to go on Facts….I want to go on the Truth…I want to move on the Word of God but God’s Word tells me. Do this out of a willing heart because the Bible says it is those who are willing and obedient, they will eat the fruit of the land…and if you’re not willing, you won’t be obedient…..”

He subtly put fear in the minds of the congregation that if they are not willing and obedient to give, they will not eat the fruit of the land. It is sad that he has taken the Word of God out of context to induce members to give.

Clip 3: PG giving a long winded altar call to get members to give the "Advance".  This clip is only a fraction of the actual length.

PG also shared the story of the Good Samaritan to justify the Church asking for advance from members. In the story as we know, the Good Samaritan left the wounded man into the care of the inn-keeper, gave him two denaris and told him that if he spends more than the two denaris, he (the Good Samaritan) will repay him (the inn-keeper) when he returns. PG likened this as the Good Samaritan asking the inn-keeper for an advance. Shocking interpretation, to say the least.

PG even puts additional words in the Good Samaritan’s mouth. He quoted the Good Samaritan as telling the inn-keeper “I can’t give this to you now but you give first” and proceeded to ask the members to give first!
We are lost for words!!!

PG then called on the members to “Seal what you are giving with Communion”.
Huh???

Clip 4 : The Good Samaritan as interpreted  by PG

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This short explanation on the story of the Good Samaritan was put in as a Comment by a reader. We do feel that all who are reading and listening to Clip 4, should have a right understanding of the Good Samaritan story in the Bible.

GOOD SAMARITAN said...

The Parable of the Good Samaritan tells the story of a man traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho and while on the way he is robbed of everything he had including his clothing, and is beaten to within an inch of his life.

That road was treacherously winding and was a favorite hideout of robbers and thieves.

The next character Jesus introduces into His story is a priest. He spends no time describing the priest and only tells of how he showed no love or compassion for the man by failing to help him and passing on the other side of the road so as not to get involved.

If there would have been anyone who would have known God’s law of love it would have been the priest. By nature of his position he was to be a person of compassion desiring to help others.
Unfortunately love was not a word for him that required action on the behalf of someone else.

The next person to pass by in the parable of the Good Samaritan was a Levite, and he does exactly the same thing that the priest did;
he passed by without showing any compassion. Again he would have known the law, but he also failed to show the injured man compassion.

The next person to come by was the Samaritan, the one least likely to have shown compassion for the man. Samaritans were considered a low class of people by the Jews since they had intermarried with non-Jews and did not keep all the law.

Therefore, Jews would have nothing to do with them. We do not know if the injured man was a Jew or Gentile, but it made no difference to the Samaritan, he did not consider the man’s race or religion.
The “Good Samaritan” saw only a person in dire need of assistance and assist him he did, above and beyond the minimum required.

He would dress the man’s wounds with wine (to disinfect) and oil (to sooth the pain). He put the man on his animal and took him to an inn for a time of healing and paid the innkeeper with his own money. He then went beyond common decency and told the innkeeper to take could care of the man and he would pay for any extra expenses on his return trip. The Samaritan saw his neighbor as anyone who was in need.

Because the good man was a Samaritan Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between those who knew the law and those who actually followed the law in their lifestyle and conduct. Jesus now asks the lawyer if he can apply the lesson to his own life with the question, “So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" (Luke 10:36). Once again the lawyer’s answer is telling of his personal hardness of heart. He cannot bring himself to say the word Samaritan, he refers to the “good man” as “he who showed mercy.” His hate for the Samaritans (his neighbor) was so strong that he couldn’t even address him in a proper way. Jesus then tells the lawyer to “go and do likewise,” meaning that he should start living what the law tells him to do.