Brother Alan was overseas for the last couple of weeks. He just returned last Sat, & has given us green light to post his letter to the BOD.
From: Alan Chan
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 0:32:43
Subject: Follow-up On EGM
Dear SP & BOD,
I am writing to you to follow-up on what I called and requested for during the Q&A session at the EGM. Honestly, I am sadden and disappointed with the outcome of the EGM and this sentiment was and still shared by scores of members who attended the 15 Aug meeting.
In my opinion, the issues are indeed far from over. And I do not think it was right for Pastor David Seah to be asked to announce to the whole church on 17 Aug that the EGM was good and things were now clarified and resolved.
(A) Call To Resign
1. As pointed out, it was such a shame and amazing that the BOD failed to look into the issues relating to CIM for the past 6 years until it was highlighted by the concerned group of Calvarites. To me, the basis for the EGM was not so much to explain to members the legal status of the church or relationship between Calvary, Missions Dept and CIM. It was more of an agenda to cover up something which all of you saw that was not right, either it could be the process or an action. Therefore, the BOD felt compelled and agreed the best way to deal with it was to convene an EGM to rectify that.
2. If I were you, I would examine my heart and conscience. Am I as the BOD doing justice to God and the many members who elected me when morally and spiritually something very wrong was done in covering up the transactions involving Missions Dept and CIM? Let me reiterate my call for each of the BOD to act in a responsible manner in taking the 1st step to resign as deacon/deaconess.
3. I have to also remark about Patrick Wong's denial knowing the "Teh Tarik" group. What a confession in front of close to 1000 members! By so doing, Patrick was seen by many not only as arrogant but also shrewd and deceitful.
(B) Show Proof of BOD Ratifications
1. I requested the BOD to show proof to all present during EGM the approval given by BOD. Instead, I was given a few PP slides showing the chronology of transactions and ratifications by BOD. The whole church heard from the concerned Calvarites that the BOD had no knowledge of the transactions between Missions Dept and CIM. In the many updates sent out by the "Teh Tarik" group, it was stated clearly the deacons and some former Missions Dept Committee members were not aware of such transferred funds let alone approved them.
2. How is it then Edward was able to come out with a PP slide outlining the various ratification from BOD after each transactions? Even the outlines were confusing with differing occasions when BOD first came to know and then ratified it. Quite clearly, to all present this was an after-thought and hurriedly prepared presentation. And it was also an open act to deceive and mislead the members.
3. This was not the proof I was asking for and certainly not something which the members would like to see. I am now making an official request for the evidences, either in the form of minutes of meeting or official documented resolutions for each of the approved transfers. Please let me have access to these records within 14 days of this request.
(C) Moving Forward Actions
1. It was mentioned that CARED will be grouped under Missions Dept as an Extended Ministries. Has this taken effect immediately and how much of the funds from CIM will be transferred back? If not please advise when is the effective date and funds to be transferred.
2. Three other actions were mentioned, ie (i) Improvements in Financial Governance; (ii) Church Constitutional Review and (iii) Improvements In Communication Process. I would like to request for each of these actions the followings :
(a) Milestones for specific progress by 12 Sep 08.
(b) Timeline for each specific progress by 12 Sep 08.
3. I do think it is reasonable for these actions to be completed within 30 days. Henceforth, I would advise the BOD to put up on the Church Notice Board by then and concurrently announce over the pulpit these actions on 14 Sep 08. Please endeavour to show the members the kind of communication process improvements since it was recognised as an urgent need for BOD to communicate on regular and timely basis.
(D) SP Statement
1. SP made a statement at the end of the EGM and I quote "You can ask any questions but do not insinuate or make insinuation remarks".
2. I would like to echo this but on a different ground. I earnestly call on anyone who speaks from the pulpit to do so in preaching the Word of God in truth and dignity. Please DO NOT use the pulpit to criticise and hit out at the members, especially the concerned group of Calvarites. What we have been hearing from the pulpit in the run-up to EGM and thereafter has been unbelievable and shocking.
3. We heard a message linking the mission of the church with extremism. Where is the relationship? Who are those able to gravitate and pull members of the church to their side and be labelled as extremist? If the mission of the church is to reach out to the lost and broken outside, why are we still keeping millions of RM in fixed deposits and seed funds in CIM and other church accounts?
4. I guess there was no need for me to be explicit telling everyone about the messages spoken by Dag Heward-Mills during 10.30 am and 5.00 pm services last week. There were shocking, unscriptural and has caused much emotional & spiritual distress and instill unnecessary fear in the hearts of many members. Members are questioning the timing and truth of such messages and the analogy of snakes was such a mockery.
5. Again I want to implore and ask that you and every invited speaker use the pulpit for its right purposes and for the glory of God.
Thank you.
In & For Our Lord Jesus,
ALAN CHAN
35 comments:
Hallelujah for the lion courage of the "teh Tarik" group, even to Karen a simple lady who dare to speak up in her gentle way. Looking at the situation, the BOD were in more tremendous pressure rather than the "culprit"
The forum EGM last night don't seem to have an impact on SP. He still as arrogant as he is. And to speak, i am truly embarrassed as a calvarite, to have outsiders in our dispute settlement.
Now not only the Christian community knows the shit but also international now.
We could have handle this within our Christian fraternity. and hush hush. Sister Lisa was right.. SP is trying to get people to justify his deeds.
we were only allowed to hear from all but speak little. its so frustrating.
There seem to be a lot of inconsistency in the transparency of the fund transaction. Tell you the truth, i am not at all convinced. for the following reason:-
1) trying to get the law to justify that its not wrong.
2) doubtful of actual or complete documents produced to the investigators.
3) if they can show the investigators all proof of documents to prove him innocent, what is wrong with showing to the concern calvarites.?
It would be much better and have a better consequence though i may agree that there may be a lot of arguments but we are taught to forgive and i am sure if the whole matter is by mistake or error, we would be able to accept SP or BOD apology with no qualms. Likewise vice versa i.e. if the teh tarik members misunderstood the whole situation, they would also be forgiven.
God, this is gotten out of hands, and by now i think much damage would have been done. Calvary Church reputation is finished. A new leader would have a tough time to built up the reputation again.
One thing for sure, since that I know my money is not goin to be channeled to what i wish for, i can now decide what to do with what i want to give. There are many ways to help do God work and if i can't rely on God worker here, i will channel to other churches who is all out to help our own people yes Malaysian poor and destitute who don even have a home or proper meals and whose kids don live longer beyond 10yrs (they die of poor nutrition and health)
I see my countrymen and i cry. Indeed its ironical to send fund out to other country when our our locals need here are not me here. Get an expedition to the estates or jungle in our country and u will know what i mean.
This is just venting out my frustration being a calvarite for 15 years but still an associate members and have no right or say.
God bless you.
to : 15 year old associate member
wow, i cant believe it.. this comment is so true..some of us did cry at the EGM for our church...
Hello Alan
your post on point no.4, this message was very hurting to us ,the ladies..he quoted to the point of, if you oppose.. you will get cancer.. we now declare and detest this spirit of condemnation in the name of Jesus! in fact, somehow i was prompted to post a comment before i went out with my husband this evening with regard to this point. i told him in the car that we the ladies felt hurt for this remark, and now late in the hour at 1.05am 2/10/08..i read your post..i believe God is at work!God want to expose all these unscriptural conduct, and what's the motives? only God knows..
Dear all hurting ladies
Be comforted by Matt 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Rev Dag Heward-Mills has brought judgment upon himself when he uttered the condemning words at that service. And whoever instigated him or agreed with him will face the same judgment.
I wrote this to a few of my friends soon after the EGM. Be encouraged.
"Dear Friends,
I must apologize for not being with you at the EGM. But I suppose my presence would not have made much difference. I could ask a couple of questions which would have given the members present additional information. From what I heard the outcome was well orchestrated. The Board had relied on the wide powers of the church constitution, the church being an unincorporated association and does not have a legal entity, and all monies given to the church are absolute gift and members do not have the right to question how the monies are being used. As such, at the EGM they had successfully “obtained” the "minutes" to paint a picture of legality. Yes, they blatantly refused to table our resolutions and we could do absolutely nothing about it. The lawyer reminded us that the Board has complete executive powers. Yet I do not think the members were fooled. An ethicist (and he was not a Christian) had said that what is legal may not be ethical or morally right. Of course the first test of any action would be whether it is legal or not. But even if legal we still need to apply the following tests:
STENCH TEST
Does it stink? Often times when you look at a transaction you can smell if it is unethical or morally wrong. Such transactions would immediately emit a distinctive odor, e.g. "fishy".
FRONT PAGE TEST
If what had happened is splashed on the front page of the Star in full details would those involved still be able to walk down the street with their heads held high?
MOM'S TEST
It is said that we get our values from our moms. In our case it would be more appropriate to call it Jesus' Test because our values are supposed to be from the Lord. If Jesus knows all the details of the transactions would He be disappointed with those involved? Would He be heart broken?
Perhaps all involved (and ourselves as well) should apply the tests to what they knew, what they said and what they did throughout the whole episode; before we surfaced the issues, after we surfaced the issues and when they had to deal with the issues. We should not have to rely on legal technicalities to absolve us from wrong-doings. It would appear that the standards of the church of Jesus Christ, left on its own and without the restraints of man-made laws, is in fact lower than that of the world. How are we to influence the world for good if we are conforming to even lower standards of transparency, accountability and ethics than the world?
Friends, rest in the Lord. Don't fret. Eventually truth and righteousness must prevail.
Blessings,
Hong Meng"
May the Lord forgive S.P. for cursing His sheep! S.P. obviously has the "hireling spirit," & not a shepherd's heart for God's people. To counter the effects of S.P.'s & Dag-Heward Mills's cursing & condemnation, we need to keep blessing them in prayer....it works, you know! This way, we heap coals of fire upon their heads!
An ex-deacon (who had been a deacon for many years, for at least 8 or more years) had confessed to someone that he did NOT know anything about the RM200,000/- transferred to CIM every year! However, after the EGM, when asked about what he had confessed earlier [privately], he was embarrassed, became unsure, but said anyway, "Maybe...I've forgotten about it!" This is an illustration of the subtle works of deception, manipulation & mind-control practised by S.P. over the BOD and the church at large.
i hope that the BOD is reading all these comments. i feel like going up to one or two of them and telling them that they have failed the church. who is the church? i/we are the church.
Wow, i read somewhere in this blog that CCC (convention centre with no guarantee it would a "church") would cost somewhere around RM300million +. Makes me wonder what could be done with that amount of money.
1) Build 300 churches both in Malaysia and internationally @ RM1 million each.
2) Feed hundreds of thousands of needy people in Jesus's name and love.
3) Sponsor a f1 team!
Sad to say though (God forgive me if i'm wrong) but spending so much on travel and "business/1st class" when economic times were bad and even when executives of the corporate world were travelling in economy class to cut costs does disturb me.
Hello, readers
guess what? all of us must be fantasizing and dreaming leh...we must be joking! such an attractive income and remuneration.. how not to be tempted NOT to even think of resigning!( simpler abit--not even thinking of resigning.."grin")
15 yr old associate member, kudos to u for having a good head on yr shoulder and for being able to think for yrself at a young age of 15. many ppl twice or triple yr age meanwhile are too blinded and can't see the obvious! yup, I encourage u to give yr offerings to other charitable organizations or other small local churches..I've been doing that for the past few years and m so happy that my money has been put to good use to help those who really need it instead of being used by some dato sri to fly business class...
point to ponder - even the mayor of London had the decency to fly economy class all the way from UK to China for the Olympics Closing ceremony
apologies, it is not dato sri but tan sri..got confused by all these mumbo jumbo titles
Dear Alan,
I have been hearing quite a few controversial comments about the Dag Hewitt-Mills sermon and have tried to get the sermon tape for the 10.30am and 5.00pm services as I was not present that particular Sunday.
However, these tapes are not available - only the 8.00am service at the moment. Would anyone have a copy of tapes of any of the services with you?
God bless
Diana
See, how well everything is controlled. What a waste being in church. Should have been a great leader of a political party.
Looks like we all got to start taping ourselves the morning second services and evening services to hear the actual things that are preached.
I am sure that Dag Heward-Mills had been influenced by S.P. We could see the way he influenced Dr. Guynes. Both Dag and Guynes are men of God, but because they had a high opinion of S.P., they made the mistake of assuming or presuming that he was right and the opposition are those who are in the wrong, snakes and what else! It's an assumption or presumption anyone can make. After all, S.P. had made sure he had developed a good reputation abroad - wouldn't he have a good reputation with all those missions funds channelled to those big,western churches, in his name and CIM ministry? Those Americans are just so impressed by him.
Dear Diana,
Since the AGM in March when comparing notes of a Sunday sermon it would appear that the messages from the same preacher for the first and second services were very different. The first sermon would be relatively mild and inoffensive but the tone would change dramatically for the second service. We were wondering why.
Well, the first service recording is meant for sale and distribution. It would appear that the Church did not wish for the abusive condemnation and curses spewed from the pulpit to be heard by others. They were meant essentially for the TT members as well as to serve as a warning to the rest of the congregation. The Church knows that most of the TT members in DH attend the second service.
If you had gone to the tape counter to purchase a particular sermon from a preacher you would get the first service recording. The second service would usually not be available. That appears to be the standard procedure.
Since I was not around when Dag was preaching and I heard about the snakes and sheep illustration and the cancer (especially breast cancer) warning I wanted to listen to this “man of God”. I went to the tape counter two Sundays after the EGM. I was told the evening service CD was out of stock, the second service was available but not the first. I was most surprised so I reconfirmed twice to make sure I was hearing right. I told those manning the counter that this is most unusual but they could not give me an explanation. Well, I bought the second service and placed an order for the evening service. I listened to both and fully appreciated the indignation of my brothers and sisters.
Then I discovered that a brother has a copy of the first service recording. He bought it immediately after the sermon. After listening to the rather short first service message it was so obvious that the content, tone and intention of the messages were very different. They were in fact two different messages. But why did they withdraw the first service recording from sale and against normal practice was selling the abusive recording?
Well, the reason could be that in the first service, Dag actually said, “…and a pastor can steal money if he wants to. Anybody can steal money if you know how to steal.”. So I speculate that between the two messages this was the more damaging one. Better to let others have the CD with an abusive message than one from the preacher stating clearly that pastors can steal. Not that Dag was insinuating anything, mind you.
Why the change back to the standard procedure is anyone's guess. If you can't get the 10 and 5 recording I will be happy to lend them to you.
Wouldn't it be better to make all messages available? They are all taped anyway.
Hong Meng
5th October 2008
Dea HM
you are absolutely right, i am a regular 10.30am worshipper, i had been wondering for sometime now, that why certain messages were a bit weird. there was one message, by Senior Pastor, said "if this church is not meant for you, you can go to other church, you are wasting your time here", i was very puzzled and could not figured out what is it all about since i am a non member but only a very regular worshipper. at the same time i too contributed quite a bit to the ccc and faith promise, now i began to see a bigger picture!
many of us members have been feeling very lost and unwanted this year...like sheep without a shepherd. when sermons from the pulpit begin to condemn the sheep and are used to chase the sheep away into the wilderness, there is something clearly wrong with the church leadership. there is no love being shown by the pastors, only condemnation and rejection.their responsibility to take care of God's people have been neglected as they are more concerned about taking care of themselves.a very sad day indeed.
Dear concerned members,
After Dag's message in the 2nd service, I immediately told a deacon and an associate pastor that we all ought to detest the spirit behind the message.
Btw, in my 25 years as a believer, I haven't detested a message for 3 consecutive days. Why? It affected my many brothers and sisters in the Lord. Bible in Rom 8:1 says that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. So, congregation or the sheep should be protected from such condemnation from the pulpit. Sadly, there was no spiritual rebuke from the leadership.
As brother-keeper, I prayed, in Jesus' name, against this onslaught of spiritual abuse on my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We are all in one body of Christ. Abusing anyone is amounting to abusing you or me and abusing the Lord.
That's why we come together in a local assembly to minister to one another, to build one another and even to admonish one another. The new testament is about one another in the body of Christ. It's a body ministry.
We are all sons of God, co-heirs with Christ and priesthood of all believers. If we fail to recognise who we are in Christ, we can become victims in this spiritual world. But, thanks be to God,our Heavenly Father who wants us to rise up as we are all more than conquerors through Christ who loved us (Rom 8:37). Amen.
How sad that Calvary Church has come to this stage.
Indeed, Calvarites today are like sheep without a shepherd. I see this as the Calvarite Diaspora - disgruntled, unhappy, discouraged, stumbled Calvarites of every age are scattered throughout the local churches in the Klang Valley seeking to find another church which they can belong to, hopefully a church where the SP & the BOD stand for transparency, accountability, sincerity, integrity and honesty, and who truly love the sheep. Someone even joked that those churches that now are burdened with a sudden influx of refugee-Calvarites need to start support groups for the ex-Calvarites to minister inner healing & deliverance to their battered emotions and troubled minds.
Couldn't agree more with Calvarite diaspora. Step into the vibrant church near Eastin and you will see a mini Calvary church there. Remember the parable of the talents? If our SP don't know how to take care of his sheep, God will gather them and give to another shepherd. If the CCC gets built, our SP may find himself preaching to 5,000 mosquitoes instead of sheep.
Hi SM
mosquito make a lot of noise one leh...by then all the mosquitoes will sting each other( worse than now) ,SP cannot preach too, he will be sting too by 5000 mosquitoes..
SP shud be at least glad that most of his ex-sheep didn't fall prey to the devil, ie. backslide. at least most of his ex-sheep have found good shepherds or are trying to find good shepherds to guide them. can u imagine those poor ex sheep who did not manage to find any shepherd and end up lost in the wilderness? I shudder to think what will happen when he stands before the great white throne one day to give account to God on what happened to the sheep he was put in charge to guide.
Dear shudder,
I shudder with you! If SP & S.A.P.(Senior associate pastor) do not repent & turn from their wicked ways, they will end up in lake of fire,,,,& become yau char kwei!
I have a friend who use to attend CC but was very dissapointed and deeply affected by the way things were so this friend has stopped attending church altogether. But I believe in a good God and that He will be our Healer and Deliverer.
To Shudder ii
Becareful what you say. You are judging. Please do not do that again.
If anyone should go to hell, I think all TT member, TT families & supporters will go first.
Having fun,
You are sick. You obviously need counselling. Come and see me after church service and I will do deliverance for you. Free of charge.
Our Heavenly Father who art in heaven,
Forgive us for our shortcomings as we forgive our fellow brethren for their shortcomings too.
I stand in the gap for "Having Fun", whoever he or she is. I pray that you will deliver him/her from the lack of decency and judgmental inclinations. I plead the blood of Jesus to cover him/her and take away any bitterness in his/her spirit.
I know you will forgive him/her as we also forgive him/her because I know You are a forgiving Father.
I pray your blessings upon "Having Fun", whoever he/she is because he/she is my brethren in Christ.
In the name of Christ our Lord.
The Lord's servant, Winslow
having fun, u do realize that whatever comments u put do not hv any negative effect on us? its only u and yr sad life that will suffer the consequences. so sad for u
It just shows the kind of supporters SP has...first a gangster appears in the KBU meeting, threatening the members there and trying to act all self righteous and indignant. now, a sad demented person called 'having fun' is showing an SP supporter's true colours..both pitiful and tragic. No suprise though, at least we know what kind of supporters poor SP has.
Dear brothers & sisters in Christ,
We thank you for your prayers for those who have commented negatively here. Indeed nothing works better than PRAYER. Apostle Paul teaches us to, “Correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction” (2 Tim 4:2) so, let us respond to such comments with “great patience and careful instruction”. Let us all refrain from anger and harsh words.
To our dear brothers and sisters who have received some unkind remarks through this blog, please be encouraged by these words from the Bible, "Because you have made the Lord, who is my refuge, even the Most High, your dwelling place, no evil shall befall you, nor shall any plague come near your dwelling; for He shall give His angels charge over you, to keep you in all your ways." (Ps 91:9-11)
To the rest of us who are pursuing on, take hold of this promise, “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind” (2 Tim 1:7).
We need to continue to pray for everyone and don’t forget to put on these –
“the whole armour of God,…
…having girded your waist with truth,
…having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
…having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
…taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
…take the helmet of salvation,
…the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.” (Eph 6:13-17)
God bless.
How can someone who attends Calvary Church can utter those words like "Having Fun" today at 12.13pm?
Can someone who has Christ in him utter those words?
Can a pastor or a deacon respond please?
i fear for our dear bros and sisters in the Teh Tarik team and their families as it looks like there are some schizophrenic SP supporters out there who might actually be crazy enough to hurt ppl physically or do some kamikaze act.do not worry, we will keep on praying for all of the TT members and TT supporters and God will be your shield and you & your families will dwell in the shelter of the Most High. No evil can befall you, no accident and no camility can overtake you. God is our refuge and our fotress, and in Him will we trust. We shall not be afraid of the terror by night, or the arrow that flies by day. Amen.
Having Fun & Having Lots of Fun,
I am a psychology student, and from what the both of you have written shows you have a split personality which requires immediate medical treatment, otherwise you might end up "flying over the cuckoo's nest."
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