As the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) gets built, the pressure on Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) and his Deacons to raise the money to pay the Contractors also begins building up.
The slowdown in members’ giving and the failure to secure additional loans despite the assistance of Exsim, is forcing PG to resort to premature selling of the bungalows around the main Church Sanctuary in Damansara Heights.
At a specially convened EGM last Friday, 20 April 2012, he sought the approval of the members for a general mandate to sell 5 out of the 6 bungalows to raise the shortfall in funds required to complete the CCC.
CCC Progress Update
Before the Resolution was put to the vote, Deacon Ngeow Zoo Gin presented an update of the progress of the construction of the CCC. He informed the members that the physical completion is expected to be in August this year, with the Certificate of Fitness anticipated to be issued by March next year. The Church hopes to be able to hold the Good Friday and Easter services at the CCC next year.
Financial Update
He shared that the challenge is to raise RM97.6 million being the Balance of the Construction Cost of RM200 million by 31 December this year.
The Church projects an Income Surplus of RM5.8 million for the rest of this year including fund-raising and after netting off the Interest Payable to the Banks on the loans drawn down.
The balance of the loans available for draw down is RM28.8 million while the balance of Sales Proceed of the commercial land due from Exsim is RM36.5 million.
After taking into account of the above, the net cash shortfall is RM36.5 million.
Proposal to sell Bungalows
To partly meet this required funding, a mandate is now being sought from the members to sell the 5 bungalows.
Deacon Ngeow explained that based on the valuation done on one of the bungalows in April last year which was RM400 per sq ft, the total estimated value of the 5 bungalows is RM22.7 million. A recent verbal estimate by the same Valuer puts the market price at RM450 per sq ft.
CT notes that, in his estimation of the value of the bungalows, he did not elaborate whether he imputed any value for the building or taken into consideration the fact that all the bungalows are not “livable” as they have been renovated for Church ministry use.
He has also obviously not considered the possibility that a few of the bungalows, being situated nearby or adjoining the main Church Sanctuary may not be able to sell or be able to fetch the market price that he expects.
He said that the bungalows may be sold either individually or on an en-bloc basis. There are discussions ongoing with several parties for sale on an en-bloc basis. The sale of the bungalows may be an outright sale or a sale with an option for the Church to buy back.
Resolution Proposed
The Resolution proposed encompasses the following points:-
1. That the Board of Deacons is authorized to sell any or all of the 5 bungalows along Jalan Damansara Permai namely the Antioch Bungalow (No. 2), Capernaum Bungalow (No. 3), Berean Bungalow (No. 15), Bethel Bungalow (No. 21) and Bethlehem Bungalow (No. 27) on the following terms:-
a. That the Sale Price be fixed at an average market price at the very least, determined after 2 independent Valuations have been carried out in respect of the property or properties intended to be sold.
b. That the property or properties be sold to person/s or body corporates who are not in a conflict of interest position with members of the Board of Deacons or Pastors.
c. That the terms of the sale may, if required, include a buyback clause at a price of up to 35% higher than the Sale Price, exercisable over a 5-year period.
d. That the proceeds of the sale/s, be used exclusively to defray the cost of such sale/s and to fund the continued construction of the CCC.
e. That the full details of the sales/, once transacted, are notified by displaying such details on the Church notice board or the next General Meeting immediately following such transaction.
2 That the Trustees of the Church and the relevant members of the Board of Deacons be authorized to execute all documents.
3. That this Resolution will be valid until 2014 AGM or unless sooner revoked.
The Resolution was put to the vote and was approved by the members. Out of the attendance of 310 members at the EGM, only one lone brave hand went up to object to the sale of the bungalows.
Proposal to set up a SPV to manage CCC
Deacon Chow Sang Hoe presented a preliminary report on the issue of maintenance of the CCC and marketing of the facilities to the public to generate income to cover the maintenance costs.
The present decision of the Board of Deacons is to set up a separate entity outside the Church to run the management of CCC. Towards this, the proposal is to incorporate a new company, that is, a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) to be owned and held by a professional Corporate Trustee in trust for the Church or a Trustee Company set up by the Church.
The SPV, will, in turn, appoint external service providers to maintain and to market the facilities. The committee had approached 13 service providers and 8 had expressed an interest to handle the functions. From the 8, the committee has selected 5 to submit their proposals by end of this month. However, 1 service provider has since declined while the remaining 4 service providers have yet to submit their proposals.
Deacon Chow lamented that it is a challenge to get a service provider for CCC because the church has imposed a requirement that Sundays are reserved for the Church’s use. He acknowledged that in the secular world, most exhibitions, forums and seminars are held over the weekends and therefore, it is hard to market CCC’s facilities. He appealed to the members to pray for this matter.
CT Comments
Although the Resolution to sell the bungalows was passed, the actual sale of the properties will be challenging. The close proximity of the bungalows to the main Church Sanctuary will be a matter of concern as well as a bargaining point for potential buyers due to the traffic congestion and parking problems on Sundays and during other services on weekdays.
Even if PG goes back on his earlier assurance that he will not sell and close down the main church here (it is highly probable that he will sell, out of desperation to raise funds), the buyers will still be concerned what the future development will be on this site.
On another note, even if all the 5 bungalows are sold for RM22.7 million (assuming any further appreciation balances out the cost of sale), there will still be a shortfall of RM3.8 million for this year. This is on the assumption that Exsim pays up the RM36.5 million this year as projected by Deacon Ngeow.
However, this is a big question mark. Under the Terms of Sale of the commercial land to Exsim, Exsim has the right to terminate the Sale and Purchase Agreement, should they fail to obtain the Development Approval from the authorities. If this happens, the church has to refund every sen paid by Exsim todate.
This will be disastrous to the Church!
190 comments:
I think CCC is going in right direction by having a SPV to manage and run CCC as a commercial entity, just like what New Creation Church is doing in Singapore. You see they have to run commercially to survive or else the church is going to go bankrupt sooner or later. The tithes and offerings will not be sufficient to cover the maintenance cost and other incidental costs for such a big building.
I always thought pastoring a church is far different from running a corporation. I thought wrongly. No wonder pastors act more like CEOs and engage the church in complicated business arrangement and deals. Wow, a church in the corporate events business. Any other business possibility?
I want my contribution to the CCC back. I gave to build a new sanctuary for Calvary Church. I did not give to build a commercial convention center which is now to be managed by an outside party. We were told that it had to be called a convention center in order to get approval. I have my tax exemption receipts to prove my giving. All those who have given have the right to get their money back. We can get an injunction to stop them transferring the project to the SPV.
Anonymous April 22,2012 8:57PM
Show me an example of a church in NT that does business to survive. THE CHURCH HAS NO BUSINESS IN DOING BUSINESS. The Church is the Body of Christ and not a body corporate. This new business mindset is the product and consequence of the prosperity and money gospel.
By the way, since you believe in tithes, please be reminded that that the biblical prescribed tithes in OT are 2 tithes in a year and in the third year a 3rd third is required, making it about 23.3 % each year. Any less is robbing God as stated in Malachi. Is'nt these the common verses in Malachi often quoted by those who support tithes. Also remember these 3 tithes from your income is not restricted to salaries but include interest and dividends earned, earnings from shares, property and other transaction. Any less than the biblical prescribed 3 tithes, you'll be guilty of robbing God.
What a mess! Turning this into a commercial project is really messy. If you claim your donations back you would have to pay tax on the deductions you have taken. The tax people would know church lied to get tax exemption for donations. Bank Negara would know church lied when they asked for approval to allow church to borrow money from members to build a church. One lie leads to many lies.
"... the church has to refund every sen paid by Exsim todate..."
Deuteronomy 8:19 19 If you ever forget the Lord your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed.20 Like the nations the Lord destroyed before you, so you will be destroyed for not obeying the Lord your God.
The Economic Downturn will show its Ugly Consequences in due course! In the secular world, it is called " NIGHTMARE "!
Actually after all the sources of available funds, ie surplus, further loan drawdown & Exsim, there is a shortfall of RM36.5m - in other words even if we sell the 5 bungalows for RM22.7m, there is still a shortfall of RM13.8m I/o of RM3.8m as mentioned.
If any of you felt moved by the Lord of Hosts that you have to file a Civil claim individually for refunds for past contributions made evidenced by Receipts issued by CC ever since 1985, please proceed with a clear conscience! Existing Members and Ex-Members must file their individual claims separately! The claims must be specific and clear ! 400 ex-Members means 400 individual claims based on their specific Equitable quantum!
A MESSAGE TO ALL CHRISTIANS WHO ATTEND AOG CHURCHES.
So finally the Church has voted to sell off its 5 properties.But all the 5 Properties were purchased with the use of the Christians tithe money and offerings over the years.The many who contributed $$$ over the years are no more at CC but they gave sacrificially but SP disposes of it as though he is the beneficiary.THAT IS THE FATE OF ALL CHURCHES WHO JUST TAG ALONG BEHIND THEIR PASTORS-HIS POWERS BEING UNCHECKED.
All along the church was led to believe that CC had enough financial resources and that "God will Himself provide for his house"[RY=Pentecostal Salesman] and further that "we dont need to borrow a single sen from the Bank","PLANS MAY CHANGE BUT VISION DOES NOT CHANGE-SP" So whatever happened to those statements now? (I am sure thay will start quoting more Bible verses)
But now that the dust is slowly clearing- the vote has been cast to sell off its buildings.This would mean that the earlier statements were outright lies from the pulpit- CC has to sell because the $$$ has dried up.SP has taken the wrong path,resorted to lies and he is continuing with his madness,deceiving the whole pastoral staff & using them to deceive the sheep.[SK is latest convert)
I say this to caution all those who are attending AOG churches- SP's present spiritual sickness is just the tip of the iceberg.Many of the AOG pulpits are smeared with lies and cover-ups and have plainly strayed outside of Gods will and purposes.[Pastors selling "vitamins?)That explains why there are so many stale sermons these days.
What is happening at CC right now can also happen in your AOG church.Look out for the tell-tale signs.As one blogger put it"Our Pastor with his mustache looks more like the neighbourhood PIMP than a Pastor"-thats the AOG Pastor who has been condemning the bloggers here.
CC is on the decline. I think the CC members voted in favour of selling because I dont think they can continue with SP and Madmen - presurring them for more money weekly. This can stress out anyone.
Our condolences to all those who are still lingering around CC.
A few of us have decided to stop attending church for awhile until God directs us further.If the pulpit is tainted with lies,and occupied with wolves- than God have mercy on the congregation.
I expect the money appeal to get more subtle and devilish. Grace & Peace be to you.
RIGHT TO CHOOSE
Guess who will be the single person exercising the exclusive power, with veto power, to decide regarding final selection of your so called SPV ? How do members get the reassurance that there would not be any possibility of hanky panky in the selection process for the right SPV ? How do you eliminate the possibility of cronyism and nepotism ? Please keep in mind we are talking about big bucks, here regarding maintenence costs of the mega complex CCC ! It is definite3ly no ikan bilis figure when you calculate the detailed total costs of maintenance for such a huge multi storeyed building complex.
We urge members to tread very carefully on unfamiliar grounds, not to be hasty in surrendering your rights over the matter, by simply passing the responsibility to someone unknown and trustworthy, by signing away, some possibly one sided, contracts.
All these show that cc is getting deeper and deeper into troubled water, going places where angels dared not tread ....
Beware of the conman's bag of tricks.
Why only 310 attended the EGM? I thought CC have much more members than this. Was previous AGM / EGM so poorly attended?
MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING
What we feared happened. We prayed foe wisdom among those who cast their votes.
Apparently, Common Sense died that fateful night. Maybe Common Sense, he, took off, took leave of the voting members' senses, maybe he migrated to another place of worship.
However, we believed the Spirit of God removed His Holy Presence from cc. That's why He left no message for us, He was silent.
So the scoreboard reads 129 or 130 in favor, only 1 against. The Power of One who dared to be the conscience of the masses gathered for the EGM. God please bless this brave person who dared to stand up and be counted on God's side.
SP1, so now that you got the majority voting in favor of selling the five bungalows, what's next ? What does it do to help cc ? Remember you have gone against your own promise to the church congregation that you would never need to sell off these same bungalows BUT now you betrayed our trust and dishonor your own promise to us all.
Selling off the bungalows do not help at all !
The church is still deep in debts !!!!
We think it's a case of MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING !
The rogue leader is using his human capacity, and not relying on God's Word for the solutions.
You only need 25% of Voting Members to constitute a quorum. There are 595 VM and therefore you need only 149 VM. There were 310 VM making up 52%, more than enough.
If you disagreed with the Sales, Members and Ex-members who have claims of monetary contributions with Locus Standi can file individual Caveats on the 5 bungalows Title!
STORY OF FROG AND BOILING WATER
With the latest development in the CCC saga, whatever happens next can be anything even to the selling of more CC assets.
As I wrote in my earlier blogs from my conversation with CC sheep, the voting pattern was no surprise. Nine out of ten persons I talked to were already sympathetic to the top leaders of CC. Among the opinions expressed were...
a) What to do, SP and his team had done their best, they have done all they could and still not enough money, so no choice must sell (I don’t know how many cc sheep still adore the pastors and swallow without thinking everything the pastors dish out from the pulpit)
b) This is a testing of members’ faith, had to support them (SP and his team)
c) CCC is God’s vision for CC, it must not fail
d) The bungalows doesn’t serve any purpose, not a church anyway (How such members can view a convention center without even the name church in it as being God’s sanctuary is beyond my comprehension!!)
e) So wonderful all can worship in one place that is CCC, no need for Cheras, Ampang, DH and DP. (What did Jesus tell us?? “ GO THEREFORE AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS…” Matthew 28:19a. JESUS HIMSELF SHOWS US HOW AND ALSO HIS DISCIPLES. HISTORY/MISSIONARIES ALSO CLEARLY SHOW US TO GO TO WHERE THE UNSAVED ARE. INSTEAD OF PLANTING MORE OUTREACHES, CC HAS CLOSED DOWN THE AMPANG SATELLITE)
If members can think no need for the satellites I won’t be surprised at all that more desperate measures like selling of the satellites will be easily endorsed too. Like the leadership of cc, there are so many members so obsessed with CCC and its completion.
WHY WHY WHY DESPITE THE TREMENDOUS DEBT CCC IS DRAGGING CC INTO DO WE STILL FIND SHEEP SO OBEDIENT WITHOUT QUESTION??? (The latest EGM being an example with only ONE BRAVE SHEEP WHO DARE TO USE GOD GIVEN WISDOM)
Ever heard of THE STORY OF THE FROG AND BOILING WATER?
WHEN YOUPLACE A FROG IN A POT OF WATER AND SLOWLY HEAT UP THE WATER, THE FROG BEING A COLD-BLOODED ANIMAL WILL SLOWLY ADAPT TO THE INCREASING TEMPERATURE UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE!!
YES, WHEN IT IS TOO HOT, IT WILL BE TOO LATE AND THE FROG WILL DIE!
HOWEVER WHEN YOU PLACE A FROG IN HOT WATER, IT WILL IMMEDIATELY REACT AND JUMP OUT! SO IT WILL NOT DIE.
Ever since the CCC was mooted, it was very nicely put…only RM50million? for a fully completed CCC. Then even before the project can take off the RM50million increased to RM80million. Next to RM150million. Then another EGM to approve another RM50million. So it became RM200million for phase one only!!
Water getting hot eh? To keep the sheep happily in the ever hotter and hotter water, the sheep were constantly fed ‘feel good news’ like “you are wonderful sheep, we really appreciate your giving”, “when we issue a challenge, you gave more than the amount we challenged you”,” CCC will be a landmark in the city when completed” etc
And the latest ‘feel good news’ was in cheras on 15/04/2012sunday when PO so proudly announced the sunrise service collection was MORE THAN RM200,000.00 IN CASH AND PLEDGES. Had it not for this blog I would really feel ‘wow! cc sheep so generous. I must give big big too!!’
At the same service DG dished perhaps the greatest ‘feel good factor and I quote “ Just take a moment…cc no longer a small local church in PJ, KL…CC GONE GLOBAL! CCC MAGNIFICENT STRUCTURE!! CHURCH OF THE WORLD!!! WRAP ARMS AROUND THE WORLD…ALL WILL MEET HERE!!!”…unquote
With the sheep so comfortable in the warm water, can we expect them to jump out/protest when more shocks are given? Honestly, I think not.
GOD BLESS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
"Actually after all the sources of available funds, ie surplus, further loan drawdown & Exsim, there is a shortfall of RM36.5m - in other words even if we sell the 5 bungalows for RM22.7m, there is still a shortfall of RM13.8m I/o of RM3.8m as mentioned."
The die is cast, we are living in the last days. God will not allow this tower of Babel to be built to make a mockery of his name! Everything that can be shaken will be shaken, only those whose foundation is built on the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone will remain. You will not only lose the bungalows, but also CC and join the many churches heading the way of bankruptcy. This is the fate of churches embroiled in controversy and division, and this is another victory for Satan whose intent is to 'steal, kill, and destroy' John 10:10.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at April 24, 2012 2:14 AM
PG is absolutely right.
While other pastors are building a Godly Church, PG is building a Worldly Church. That's why he can proclaim CC as Church of the World.
Posted by Patrick Hee to Calvary Today at April 24, 2012 7:37 PM
PG actually said that??...CC has gone global, church of the world??
Oh my, he certainly has a BIG head!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at April 24, 2012 7:33 PM
CC…THEN…NOW…FUTURE
Sori fellow bloggers for not explaining…DG refers to pastor Delmer Guynes. He was preaching in cheras on 15/04/2012 the Sunday after Easter Sunday. And the words that I quoted were from him. Any unwary sheep that are not careful will definitely be so puffed up and feel extremely proud by his words.
Who wouldn’t? Imagine being a Member of a GLOBAL church that has such a MAGNIFICENT ccc structure known the world over!! Imagine you are not merely a member of a SMALL LOCAL church in PJ and KL.
Btw can someone enlighten us on what it means by Honorary Pastor? That was the title used on him in cheras. Since when did he became Honorary Pastor? of CC? {fyi especially to the Anonymous who was so offended by the term ‘white man’ may I gently remind you to read Our Daily Bread for 24/04/2012 Tuesday i.e. yesterday written by Dave Egner (I believe an American) where the writer used the term ‘white man’…you want to label him racist?}
DG… are looking down on CC? Did you know that before this ccc saga CC was one of the biggest if not the biggest Pentecostal church in Malaysia? Around 3000 members.
THEN… CC was also well-known and so respected. It was among the very few churches able to stage a full scale Easter and/or Christmas at The Putra Stadium, Bukit Jalil and God blessed its three-night presentation with over ten thousand attendees.
NOW… what has happened? Not even 600 members! (Go check the latest list of VM…595 to be exact…i am not including the 642 AM who has no voting rights).
Today cc is divided. Members sacked. Deacon removed. All sorts of methods to get the $$$$$.
And this year 2012, for the first time in many many years, CC did not stage a three-night Easter evangelistic presentation.
FUTURE…will cc become a GLOBAL church known the world over? Will cc and ccc bring in a tsunami of Christians and potential believers? Or cc/ccc became a living nightmare for the sheep still faithful to cc/ccc to constantly give sacrificially to settle the outstanding loans and meet the colossal maintenance?
Another scenario…cc/ccc being run like a commercial worldly entity. Perhaps ordinary sheep (except SP and his APs and BOD) who attend services will have to pay parking charges calculated hourly! AND ITS NOT NEGOTIABLE!!
AND ITS NOT NEGOTIABLE!!... THESE WERE THE EXACT WORDS RY2 (not RY) USED TO REFER TO THE TITHES BEFORE THE OFFERING IN CHERAS LAST SUNDAY 22/04/2012. He also mentioned tithes is 1/10 of pay and also includes everything; allowance etc… NOT NEGOTIABLE!! When he asked the cheras sheep to say Amen to that guess what…NO AMENS COULD BE HEARD!!
Pastor RY2, are you practicing the OT PRESCRIBED TITHES of 2 tithes each year and an extra 3rd tithe in the 3rd year, roughly averaging 23.3% per year. And to quote your own words… “AND ITS NOT NEGOTIABLE!!”
As usual like the other APs, RY2 rattled of the usual sermon before offering …worship offerings speaks of our appreciation for God’s blessings…truly a joy to build God’s Kingdom…
…..COMPLETION OF CCC..SPIRITUAL IMPACT FOR THIS NATION AND ABROAD…..YOUR GIVING MINIMIZE INTEREST..MINIMIZE LOAN DRAWDOWN…..GIVE MUCH.. MORE GIVEN TO YOU!!!...
BE WISE
GOD BLESS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
PG is certainly not a true servant of God. He is a certified false prophet, a minister of satan, a lying wolf in sheeps clothings. So are the APs and other pastors who follow him. And the worshippers that follow him are the false sheep. They are all of the world & CCC being touted as church of the world is actually a synagague of satan where he is promoting his brand of universal christianity, a false & a counterfeit christianity.
Even as they read all that we exposed them, their hearts are even more hardened, more arrogant & prideful. They may remained stony silence and ignoring all that we exposed them, but they cannot hide from the eyes of the Lord God almighty.
Anonymous April 25, 2012 8:21AM........"Even as they read all that we exposed them, their hearts are even more hardened, more arrogant & prideful"
Try making comments in a more intelligent manner instead of heaping out hatred like equating pastors with devils and hell bound and using words like 'Hei Mr Whiteman' etc, then maybe their hearts won't be so hardened. Eventhough I strongly stand against tithes and the money gospel and extravagant spending, I myself cannot take some of the hateful words used here.
Part of the resolution read, "That the terms of the sale may, if required, include a buyback clause at a price of up to 35% higher than the Sale Price, exercisable over a 5-year period."
Do you know what this means? Lets say the five bungalows are sold for RM25 million.There may be a buyback clause that would give the buyer a 35% profit after five years. The resolution did not state who has the right to exercise the buyback, the seller (CC) or the buyer.Big difference.Again the deacons are withholding info from the members.
If CC has the right to buy back then the buyer would be obliged to sell back to the church and make a profit of 35% or RM8.75 million.During the five years the buyer cannot do anything with the bungalows in case CC buyback.They can only rent to CC and collect rent. The deacons did not tell you this, did they? Why would CC buy back the bungalows? To sell them away together with the DH church and lot 4 to develop into another condo project. The DH church would eventually be sold. It must be already in their thinking but they are not telling you. It would be a sad and hurtful day to God and His kingdom if DH is sold. May God forgive them.
If the buyer has the right to sell and CC has the obligation to buyback then it is really a financing scheme that is very good deal for the buyer. He collects rent for five years and then stand to make a 35% profit after that. If the market price is higher than RM33.75 million then the buyer would not require CC to buyback. He would just sell it in the market.
Nobody at the EGM asked and they did not tell. Almost a blanket approval based on ignorance.
Hi bloggers, please read this link which may interest you on CCC that appeared in Utusan Online.
http://ww2.utusan.com.my/utusan/special.asp?pr=theMessenger&y=2011&dt=1017&pub=theMessenger&sec=Features&pg=fe_01.htm
To Anony, April 25th, 2:45 pm. Exposing the CC pastors for their unrighteous spiritual behaviours is not heaping out hatred against them. Its true that their hearts are hardened as they refused to love the truth of God. Whats so wrong in describing them as arrogant & prideful after all the injustices & the spiritual abuses they have acted against the members. I like to hear how you would describe them in your so called 'intelligent manner'?. If a preacher is found to be a true servant in accordance with scripture, then he is of God. But if any preacher is proven false by the Word of God, then he is of the devil, simple as that & thats how Jesus described them. Are these hateful words as you said. Go read your Bible and see how Jesus Christ exposed & described the Pharisees and the Scribes and tell me if you would say the Lord should not be so harsh to used hateful words but to approach them in a more friendly and "intelligent manner". Friend, as the Bible instructed us, you & I had a christian duty to our fellow brothers & sisters to expose the ungodly acts of CC pastors so that they may not be deceived by them.
Don't be offended as I feel you need to grow to be more spiritual matured.
Anonymous 25,2012 11:18PM
"Whats so wrong in describing them as arrogant & prideful..of the devil ....etc etc " eg. When you accuse 'they are ALL of the world", you accuse everyone in CC and how do you presume to know what are inside the hearts of all in CC. You are not Jesus who can READ THE HEARTS of the Pharisees and the Scribes. It can backfire and make you sound like one who is a pharisee instead, prideful and arrogant. You can argue things VERY STRONGLY AND CONDEMN any doctrinal errors and argue strongly your point of view in the CCC episode but comndemning the person with remarks like being of the devil and hell bound as in some comments I read is not intelligent or right. Even if the other party make such accusations, they will have to answer to God for it.
I remember in another blog on another matter, one person accused John Wimber to be of the devil and now is in hell. I strongly agree with him that many of John's teachings were way off scriptures, but to judge that he is of the devil and is hellbound is pure judgemental and can make one appear like a pharisee. God will be the Judge of that and not for any of us to say.
All along, i had expected them to outsource or run the CCC as a commercial enterprise to pay the bills and keep it afloat. Let me suggest that it will require a lot faith, prayers, Godly wisdom and creativity to keep CCC afloat much less repay the mountain debts without the goodwill of CC members and friends offerings, tithes and charitable givings.
1) What is the competitive advantage of CCC? Do we allow other religious or non-Christians bodies, commercial or government agencies to rent the CCC for their events/conferences or exhibitions? CCC would have limited access to winning facilities in terms of hotel, food and dining outlets, public transport i.e. bus or rail. Compare that with KLCC and PWTC?
2) To keep the sanctity of the CCC, are we going to allow the Buddhist, Taoist, Muslims & anti-Christian organisations to hold their dinners/rock concert/recitals/ corporate events/product launches at CCC etc?
3) Even if they allow these organisations ( for the sake of rental income), are we going to allow smoking, hard liquor and worldy music to be played in the premises of CCC. The moment, we have these restrictions, it negates and turn people off from CCC especially non-Christians organisations and private companies.
4) Assuming the Christian community in Malaysia supports CCC and rent the premises for their own events, how many such events can be garnered to host it at CCC. Any sensible pastors or ministers would hold it in a hotel/or world class and proven convention centres lke PWTC, KLCC, PGRM etc first where facilities are convenient and complete for their local and international guests. It will definitely not be a preffered choice for them and in order to try to win these Christian segment, they would have to drop their rental rates or offer generous discounts to entice them. The viability and economic and market feasibility will be extremely challenging.
TRAPPED IN ROLLER COASTER RIDE
We wish to bring to attention to readers that there are meny very valid points raised.
We refer to comments by Anonymous April 25, 10.33pm highlighting the anonymous blogger's mysterious poser : "WHY WOULD CC BUY BACK THE BUNGALOWS ?"
Anonymous Blogger's Answer : "TO SELL THEM AWAY TOGETHER WITH THE DH CHURCH AND LOT 4 DEVELOP INTO ANOTHER CONDO PROJECT. THE DH CHURCH WOULD EVENTUALLY BE SOLD.".
Apparently, certain vital information are made known to the PeeGee's inner circle, BUT the dumb sheep are purposely kept in the dark. In his world of delusion and make belief, he has again skilfullt tricked the voting members to swallow lock, stock and barrel the lie that they must vote in favour of selling off the five bungalows, (the only way out), to save the church.... the voting members were deluded, with their common sense dulled, into thinking they must stand beside and support their senior pastor's dream of making ccc "Global Church / Church of the World" (coined by DG)
Like in the hands of the masterly magician, the voting members were molded like putty, swaying to the whims and fancies of the satanic priest. certain facts, earlier kept hidden, suddenly were released for mass consumption or announced in public - especially harmful news like 35% profit (or RM 8.75 million)for buyback option, shortfall of RM 13.8 million !
In the ensuing confusion, they TRY to continue painting a bright picture of the future for CCC.
CC members are now realising they are locked on a very dangerous roller coaster ride to ever enveloping financial crisis and bankruptcy,monetary entanglements, social shame and legal mess, etc. We think it's spiritual death if they remain on the roller coaster ride. We also feel they also head for major disaster if they break off and plunge headon from the roller coaster !
YET despite all these, there are still hardcore followers of the satanic priest.m
COMMENTING AGAINST ANONY.25TH, 2;45PM.
YOU SEEMED TO HAVE A SOFT SPOT ON CC PASTORS. BUT BE WISE DON'T BE FOOLED AND BE DECEIVED BY THEIR INNOCENSE APPEARANCE & THEIR FRIENDLY APPROACH AS THEY ARE OUT TO WOO AND WIN YOUR HEARTS OVER AFTER ALL THE EXPOSURE OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MISDEEDS. JUDGED THEM BY THEIR FRUITS NOT BY THEIR APPEARANCE AND CHARMING APPROACH. FOR THE BIBLE SAYS BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW IF THEY ARE TRUE OR FALSE.
APART FROM YOUR STANCE AGAINST PROSPERITY GOSPEL, YOU DON'T SEEMED TO SHOW ANY CONCERN FOR THEIR ACTIONS BY JOINING PG IN CARRYING OUT SPIRITUAL ABUSES ON CHURCH MEMBERS. YOU THINK THEY ARE NICE & KIND PEOPLE; WELL TRY STANDING UP AGAINST THEM AND YOU WILL SEE HOW RUTHLESS THEY CAN BE, FOR YOU WOULD PROBABLY BE THROWN OUT OF CHURCH LIKE THOSE 400 MEMBERS WHO HAD BEEN AXED.
SO YOU THINK YOU CAN WIN THEM OVER WITH YOUR "INTELLIGENT MANNER'? BROTHER, EVERY KIND OF APPROACH HAD BEEN TRIED. THESE GUYS ONLY SEE THEMSELVES AS HIGHER THAN YOU ALL BECAUSE THEY CARRY THE TITLE OF "PASTORS" AND THEY DON'T TAKE INSTRUCTIONS OR CORRECTIONS FROM ANYONE. ITS THEM THAT GAVE THE RULES & INSTRUCTIONS, EITHER YOU FOLLOW OR BUTT OUT. IS THIS THE BIBLICAL APPROACH IN SHEPHERDING THE FLOCK?
BE WISE BROTHER. I & MANY OTHERS HAVE KNOWNED PO,SK OR RY AND REGARDED THEM AS NICE CARING PEOPLE & VERY CONCERN FOR YOUR WELFARE. BUT TODAY, LOOKED WHAT THEY HAVE DONED TO THEIR FRIENDS IN CALVARY CHURCH. NEVER HAVE WE THOUGHT THEY ARE ABLE TO CARRY OUT SUCH UNGODLY ACTS & INJUSTICES TO MEMBERS.
Russell Peters will have an endless supply of church jokes from this blog.
If some of you think that in criticising the pastors you can put yourself on the same standing as Jesus and therefore have the absolute right to freely call them as of the devil and hellbound, hypocrites, whitewashed sepulcres,vipers etc, then you had better show forth holiness in your own lives and show forth fruits of the Spirit yourself. By the way the measure of maturity is the fruits of the Spirit and you know what these are. I am in no position or qualified to judge you on this but you know and can judge yourself better and God knows you and judges you even better. The pastors and leaders in CC may have used the same terms on you, then they are equally answerable to God who judges all.
In reply to Anony. 26th april 11.18am. When I mentioned "they are of the world" it is self explanatory I am refering to only those who believed what CC pastors said and followed what they were told to do without questioning. I hoped you are not one of them. Do you know the Bible says that "Ye who are spiritual, judges all things" and that is spiritual wisdom not condemning, for by it we will then know who are the true prophets and who are the false ones.
CC pastors had committed very grave & hurting abuses upon many church members. Is this "love thy neighbour" they always preached. They lavished themselves with church members tithes & offerings with high salaries and various monetary benefits. They can spend money on luxury cars & comfort living. It would not be wrong if its their hard earned money, but definitely very wrong especially it came from church members hard earned money. They called upon church members for sacrificial giving, but they themselves have not cut church costs & expenditure upon themselves to give sacrifically to CCC which they said is a call from God to build. So have they lived by what they preached? What then do you called these people? Hypocrites!! isn't it, unless you have a less hurting word to describe them. Brother,
the world today are getting more wicked & evil & many false prophets had arised & they came from inside churches, so perhaps we need to take a stronger stand against them & expose them for what they are instead of too concern with what is not intelligent or not right. They proclaimed to serve God, but in reality for their fleshy ways they are serving the interest of satan. No wonder Jesus accused the religious leaders in His period as from the devil. And todays false preachers are no different from them, in fact are even worse.
No time for soft words against false preachers these days.
THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
I read the latest postings in the blog with a heavy heart for Calvary Church. How low have the leaders fallen! Nevertheless, there is a joy in my spirit as I witness the maturity and spiritual wisdom of many who write in this blog.
I am sure many shed tears seeing the state of Calvary Church. My new job has placed me closer to Calvary Church than before and a day does not go by without a word of faith and trusting the Lord for a speedy end to the Calvary saga. How long Lord? How long must your children suffer? When will you vindicate? Have You left us to the wrath of those who command the church but who have lost their ways? For surely, your Glory no longer shines on them.
My heart goes out to those who suffer with us. Nevertheless, though the Glory has departed the church, His GLORY still shines within those who have decided to stayed and those now seeking refuge in other churches. For your labour is not in vain.
Let us not lose our Faith in Him. We remember our personal dark night of the soul when all looked doomed! When hope was gone and we were like dead bones. Yet even in the darkest hour, the Lord did not fail us. Though He may be late, He never was late beyond the time He had set to deliver us from our pains. He will surely come with His sword to bring vengeance.
Recently the Lord took me ever so deeper in His ways than before. I have come to appreciate His sovereignty. In the past I would have thought "If only the members had voted against a matter raised in the church, all would have turned well." If only Pastor would repent all would be well. "If only...." "If only....".
But now I know otherwise. Every decision whether good or bad was according to the sovereign will of God. The failure of the congregation, the leaders, the construction of the new CCC, the birth of the TTG, the creation of this blog, the good fight of the members of Calvary church within and without, ........all according to the sovereign will of God. Some may find it hard to accept but we need to if we accept the Bible is the Word of God. We MUST acknowledge that the Lord knows what He is doing and that He is never depending on US for the final victory.
Every little we do...taking the church to court, advising the congregation not to contribute, the sacrifice of those who monitor this blog, etc...all only happened because He wanted it. The works we do is because we are His co-workers and He is using the Calvary saga to teach us spiritual wisdom, practical lessons on faith and the secrets of intercession. BUT! He is never dependent on these for His final victory.
That is His prerogative! He will do it and when it happens .... everyone will know that it is a dangerous thing to fall into the hands of the Living God!
When we come into this light and knowledge, we realise if He has allowed an event, it is only because He has a purpose and He does not seek our council but will act according to His wisdom...and bring it to conclusion. I now look forward with excitement to His conclusion.
Read Habakkuk 3:17. Hear this song and be blessed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq8JeBWRdrM
Here are some verses on The Sovereignty of God
http://www.tentmaker.org/lists/SovereigntyScriptures.html
Vijay
Continuing from my comments from April 26,2012 9:31PM
I am absolutely in no way endorsing certain teachings of the pastors in CC nor siding with their corporate controlling ways especially concerning the church finances. Worst still I feel a great injustice done by the 'excommunication' of some 400 members. To sack even one precious sheep or member is no small matter that can be carried out without a very thorough deliberations or a period of humble prayer. To rush and sack 400 members then is even unthinkable and rash and absolutely lacking in grace and wisdom and definitely devoid of any serious attempt in seeking God in prayer on the part of leaders and church. I think it is extremely high handed and totally unprecedented in Malaysian church history. The truth is that the leaders are even more accountable for every misdeed done and for the hurt done to their sheep for which they have been called to shepherd. And obviously I feel it is right that people stand up and speak strongly on the matter, What I have been objecting all along are some comments like the pronouncing of judgement on the leaders and their followers as in this example, quote;
"Yes, Jesus exposed the deceivers of His day and we should, too! Don't side with them because you don't want to go where they will end up- lake of fire to be tormented forever, if they don't repent!"
Now who are we to decide who goes to Heaven and who goes to hell. That is for God to say not us.
Speaking up against injustice and misdeeds done, speaking against wrong teachings or doctrines and contending for the faith is right because if we don't, then who will. But don't hastily pronounce the brethen as of the devil and hell awaits him. That belongs to God.
To Anony, 27th April, 9:06am. Now you are suddenly beginning to talk something right. To expose the ungodly acts of false preachers to fellow believers so that they will not be deceived is to stand up for the righteousnesss of God. Thats why the Bible instructed believers "Ye who are spiritual, judges all things" and this exercising & discerning with our hearts what is spiritually right or wrong before God, it is not pronouncing judgement on anyone. This is also living up as part of the fruits of the Spriit.
To say that they are of the devil, does not necessarily mean we are pronouncing or condemning them to hell or the lake of fire. This final judgement we leave it to God.
God bless you with His wisdom and truth.
Ever since the CCC was mooted, it was very nicely put…only RM50million? for a fully completed CCC. Then even before the project can take off the RM50million increased to RM80million. Next to RM150million. Then another EGM to approve another RM50million. So it became RM200million for phase one only!!
.........................................
HE HE HA HA HA HHE HE HEH...........
EX-CALVARITE.
Anonymous April 27,2012 3:49PM
Huh? FYI discernment is not a fruit of the Spirit,it is a gift. The FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT is listed in Gal 5:22-23..."But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness,
selfcontrol against such things there is no law."
QUOTE "THE BUNGALOWS DON'T SERVE ANY PRACTICAL PURPOSE" ???
.......................................
I heard the above from one of the leaders of CC.To pursue with their objectives,they will say anything to justify their course of action right now.There is madness in the house right now.Who would have thought that one day,CC would descend into her present predicament.SP has got a super ego-and the building that he intends to put up must correspond with his ego.And this madman has converted his whole crew into madmen too.
To complete CCC-it is going to take a lot of money.And the new CCC when,if it is completed- will need more $$$ just to maintain it.
TO THE REST OF THOSE WHO REMAIN AT CC- WHO HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT THIS SO CALLED "LANDMARK CHURCH"(our compliments to that Pentecostal Salesman- RY)- GET UP FROM YOUR SEAT AND-GO HOME.
Go home and think deeply- do you want to be a part of a programme that sucks money all the time,is in debt- AND QUITE POSSIBLY NEVER BE DEBT FREE AGAIN??IS GOD GLORIFIED IN SUCH A SITUATION?? A CHURCH IS BEGGING FOR MORE $$$ ALL THE TIME??? SP AND TEAM ARE CONFIRMED HABITUAL LIARS. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ABOUT THEIR SPIRITUAL CONDITION AT THIS STAGE.
AND WHERE DO YOU THINK THE MONEY IS GOING TO COME FROM?OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO YOUR POCKETS AND ASK YOU TO DIG DEEP.
I WOULD NOT BE TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE TRUTH IF I SAID THAT CC IS LIKE A MODERN DAY CASINO-MANY CANT SEE IT BECAUSE A BIBLE IS WAVED IN FRONT OF THE DUMB SHEEP-AKIN TO ASKING YOU TO BET ON THE IMPONDERABLES.
SP AND CHURCH BEGGARS aka BACKSLIDDEN REVERENDS-MAYBE ITS TIME FOR YOU TO GO AWAY AND SEEK GOD FOR YOURSELVES ALONE.DON'T CARRY ON LIKE THIS.THERE IS A BITTER PILL TO SWALLOW IN THE END.
IA SAY AGAIN REST OF CC SHEEP--GET UP FROM YOUR SEAT AND GO HOME.READ YOUR BIBLE QUIETLY AND PRIVATELY AND YOU WILL GET MORE SPIRITUAL NOURISHMENT FOR YOURSELF THEN FROM LISTENING TO THIS BACKSLIDDEN AOG RELIGIOUS DEMONS.
AXED TERUK
'Thou hast not forsaken those who seek you"-
(Cant remember where I read this)
To Anony 27th April. 7.37pm. I figure you are Anony 27th April, 9.06 am. Friend your gesture of HUH! is unchristian & definitely not living by the fruits of the spirit. Yes,I have read in the bible what "the fruits of the spirit" are. I don't claimed to be well knowledge in the Word of God as I am still learning everyday from the Lord. I mentioned 'living up as part of the fruits of the spirit' not the fruits of the spirit. Whatever & however you look at it doesn't matter, for every good things we do or live by whether its love, peace,gentle,kind & self control or discernment all comes from only one source that teaches us how to live and its the Holy Spirit God gave to each of us when we are baptised in Him. Thats what I meant & I hoped I am not wrong on this. I don't have good memory in remembering or quoting bible verses due to my age. My only objective writing in this Blog is to expose the ungodly acts of CC pastors to fellow believers and that was what I was trying to bring forth to you as you earlier appears to be unconcerned or unaware of their misdeeds. Its good now that you have expressed your dissatisfaction over CC pastors spiritual misdeeds in your latter comment. Perhaps the next good thing you can do now is to try to bring knowledge to those unwares or ignorant of them.
God bless you & be a good soldier of Christ.
WILL THESE 180 be HAUNTED?
310 attended :"129 in favor, only 1 against."
So that leaves 180 ABSTAINED!!!?
To these 180, I wish to say, this is COWARDICE. Why bother to attend the EGM, if you know you will not take a stand 'For' or 'Against' the Resolution?
Hasn't God always say "CHOOSE" e.g. choose Death or Life?, Choose to serve Mammoth or God? So, what good is being counted as present, but did nothing! What a shame you did not exercise that Voting Right.
Before you take the next Communion, do examine yourself and search your heart, did you act responsibly by abstaining? --that you dare not take a stand for God's House/Properties which are to be put on SALE?
For those "Johnny come lately", it may help to tell you DH and all the other properties were brought with tears, blood & sweat of the pioneers of Calvary church. And you have no guts to stop PG from selling all that God has given to His church--an inheritance for over 40 years to be squandered just like that by PG for his CCC?
To Anony April 29, 2012 12:44AM
Just wondering where did you get the figure of 180 abstained. What I read from CT is out of 310 only one opposed.
Wonder who is the buyer of the bungalows? Imagine if you are the buyer of the bungalow, why do you want to make an agreement to sell back to the church? If you know you can only use for 5 years, then you will not even want to buy it, because you can't do anything with it. Imagine you brought the bungalows adn renovate it as you want, live in it for just 5 years and then sell back to the church..?? No one would do that...except there is a hidden things behind all these. You see the point?
I suspect the person who brought them could be PG or associate themselves. Afterall, years of plundering church, they have acumulate wealth enough to buy them. So could it be that the bungalows sold at a price not favorable to the church? OUt of desperate sale, or scandal? After 5 years, the church has to buy back and the buyer immediately earn 30%?
Why don't reveal who is the buyer?
In reply to "Anony April 29, 2012 12.44am"
Re your comment, please refer to blog:April 23, 2012 5:29 PM.
Since the "results" posted at the EGM was 129 For and 1 Against,
it is by subtraction from the Total 310 VM ( Voting Member) present,
that 180 did not vote (or what is termed "Abstained")!
For obvious reason, I suppose, the Chair would never 'highlight' this
segment ( Abstained numbers) as it would showed the "Support" is really awfully low! ( And mind you, I believe these "For" votes came from
the PG & family, The BOD & their families, and of course those in the various Committees of CCC,as well as those who have vested interest in the CCC project in one way or other.
To those who did not cast their vote, do not fool yourselves that you did not have a part in this unwarranted disposal of God's inheritance of the church!
THATS RIGHT. THOSE WHO VOTED IN THEIR FAVOUR TO SELL THE BUNGALOWS HAS THE RIGHT & MUST DEMAND TO KNOW THE NAME OF THE BUYER TO PROTECT ANY HIDDEN CORRUPTION ESPECIALLY WHEN PG AND HIS ASSOCIATES OF APs & BOD HAD PROVENED AS PEOPLE CANNOT BE TRUSTED. THEY MIGHT USE IT AS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO BENEFIT & GAIN PERSONAL PROFIT IN THE BUY BACK. EVEN IF THE BUYER IS A CORPORATE FIRM, CHECK OUT WHO ARE DIRECTORS IF THEY ARE LINKED TO THE CHURCH OR TO PG & ASSOCIATES. WITH THE UNGODLY CHARACTERS OF PG & SOME PROFESSIONAL/BUSINESMEN FROM THE BOD THEY MUST BE CLOSELY WATCHED FOR ANY CRIMES OF CORRUPTION.
As I was going through the financial report for the Calvary Extended Ministries, I was shocked to see that Calvary Communications Ministry had a huge loss in the last financial year. Then I knew the reason why...they made a donation of more than RM700,000 to the CCC!
This is in reply to : Anony April 29, 2012 12:44 AM
Please refer to the results of the voting taken at the EGM as per the blog posted by Annonymous on 23 April 2012 5.29 PM.
So, if there were 310 VM ( Voting Members) and only 129 was ‘For’, and 1 ‘Against’
By subtraction from the total VM present, 180 DID NOT vote i.e. ABSTAINED.
Therefore, it was a very low percentage or small group who supported the Resolution.
I would believe that those 129 who voted ‘For’ came from PG & Family, BOD & families Asst. pastors & families, Staff, all Committee Members of CCC, and those
with vested interest.
Those 180 who Abstained—also two third!, please do not deceive yourselves that by not casting your vote you are absolved of any consequences from this Resolution, or that you have no part in this most regrettable and unjustified Resolution tabled at the EGM.
Wow "DONATION"??? from calvary Communications Ministry to CCC--
Fact, it's from son PG JR to PG Senior-- they are indeed running Calvary
like their Private Enterprise.
This is yet another proof of the bottomless PIT of CCC, which no amount of selling properties, wheeling & dealing and "donations" can ever fill.
PGs have certainly "leave no stone-- rather COFFER$ unturned or EMPTIED to be precise!"
You mean 310 attended the EGM, and only 129 voted FOR and one AGAINST with 180 ABSTAINED? What if 309 ABSTAINED and only ONE voted FOR? Would the Resolution be carried through?
To Anony May 1, 2012 12:57 PM
See the church constitution, it needs 2/3 majority for approval. So, I think the resolutions will not be approved.
2/3 of those present? If so, then 129 is only 42 % of those present.
Then I knew the reason why...they made a donation of more than RM700,000 to the CCC
................................................A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
Wow.What great generosity!!The above is yet another proof that SP and madmen are not accountable to anyone.From son to father? I thought this only happened in Malaysian politics.RM700,000 is a lot of money.Should not this transfer of funds be approved by the Church?This raises a lot of kindred questions.
This virus runs through many AOG churches today.First they do their thing AND THEN ONLY INFORM THE CHURCH and claim that is proof of their accountability.
CC should have the guts to boot out the junior SP as he seems to be acting like the CEO there.What a shameful state of affairs. But where else outside the church can you have easy access to $$$ like that? Bravo SP!!! You have just successfully pulled another con job right under the noses of the sheep and still outwardly appear to others as a godly man.SP and crew are dangerous snakes now- "a brood of vipers,who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel,whitewashed tombs and their destination is, I do solemly believe, the Valley of Gehena where the worm dosen't die and the fire does not go out.Happy Journeying Pastor Conmen!!(There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there)
I am confused. In the past years the complaint was that there were too much accumulated funds in Calvary Communications and if the money was meant for church use/ministry, the call was for the funds to be transferred to the CCC instead of it being "kept" under the Extended Ministries, beyond the reach of the church. Either the above comments are from those who are "new" and as such do not know the history of the case or those who are "old" but for one reason or another have forgotten that the transfer of funds to CCC was our call/demand!
And now when the church finally did what we had all this while wanted/demanded, we now imply this was an unwise/suspicious thing to do. Not only we accuse the church of shifting the goalpost but we ourselves are doing it.
Transferring the funds to CCC (whatever accounting name it is being called) as we wanted/demanded all this while is a good thing.
Its already May 2012 and the CCC crisis is still ongoing?? may God have mercy on all of us!!!
MANY THANKS TO THE BLOGGERS CONTRIBUTIONS HERE - MY PASTOR HAS DISAPPEARED FROM LAZING AROUND AT THE TEH TARIK STALLS AND "MAKAN GAJI BUTA" MONTHYLY.HE USED TO HANG OUT AT THE STALLS DAILY AND MOST OF HIS TIME WAS SPENT THERE.NOW THERE IS A LITTLE CHANGE-ALTHOUGH THERE ARE RUMOURS THAT HE SPENDS MOST OF HIS TIME WITH HIS COMPUTER.WELL- AT LEAST HE SPENDS SOME TIME IN THE OFFICE THESE DAYS.
There is always little mention about money in the Bible from Genesis to the Book of Revelation. Even when the Lord send out His disciples to preach the Word, He told them to take no money with them. They obeyed and relied everything upon the Lord to supply. Yet, never did God find Himself lack of money, on the contrary we always see God performing His will through His people whether they had enough money or not.
So this prosperity gospel & the asking to give, give and give them more money is a doctrine of lucifer who inspired CC pastors to build CCC to deceive them into thinking its a vision of God, when in actual fact its a trap to put them all into a financial bondage & perhaps bankruptcy. From what we see things happening, its so clear that CCC IS NOT a call from God to build. Yet its incredible that these 'pastors' can have no spiritual maturity and be SO DUMB to be fooled by satan who is amusing himself & having fun by playing "church" with these CC pastors.
TIME TO ACT
1. CC'S SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS
2. CLEAN UP (BERSIHKAN) CC & CCC
3. TOTT
We the church MEMBERS and church CONGREGATION are UTTERLY ASHAMED and EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED with the current sad state of affairs in the church, cc. Namely, the ALLEGED various unauthorized transfers of money from one church fund to another fund, including the previous transfers totaling one million plus RM and latest transfer of RM700,000.00 (which being a three quarters million RM - which most of us would agree represents a very substantial figure). Fact is not many people in M'sia have the financial capacity to afford RM700,000.00 fund transfers, agree ?!!! But of course, our church leaders are not ordinary Tom, Dick and Harry ... They are some called purportedly "super salesmen" ...
We wish to pose the question of accountability from these church leaders :
1. Who authorise such substantial fund transfer . the senior pastor ? the board of deacons ? the church members ?
2. What is the basis of the approval and decision to permit such fund transfer ?
3. How come the church members and congregation are not made aware of such substantial fund transfer prior to this leakage of information ?
4. Do you know that the money from the church funds come mainly from the church members, church congregation and the public ?
5. don't you think the churhc leaders should exercise proper accountability, transparency, integrity, responsibility and godly governance when dealing with matters relating to church funds - which are DONATED BY and therefore BELONG TO belong to the CHURCH MEMBERS, CHURCH CONGREGATION AND PUBLIC ?
We urge the current church leadership to please change your ways, confess your wrong doings and make amends to the people you have hurt the most - the "dumb sheep" of cc.
If you still carry on like this, we believe the Omnipotent and Omnipresent God would not allow this sinful acts to continue for long before unleashing His Wrath on them, especially hearing our prayerful cries to Him.
We the "dumb sheep" will continue to "clean up" (BERSIHKAN CC) via "TURN OFF THE TAP" (TOTT). Stop giving to cc and ccc related funds UNTIL their leadership practise PROPER ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY and GODLY GOVERNANCE !
To Anonymous May 5, 2012 8.16 AM
It sounds to me that you may still be worshiping in cc and you're obviously not very happy with the mismanagement of funds by the leadership of the church. Could I suggest that you gather a few bravehearts to confront the leadership besides just blogging about your unhappiness here. Nothing wrong with that. The TTG group has been sacked, and maybe it's time for a new group to stand up against all these mismanagement issues of cc. Think about it.
God bless you.
EVEN IT IS THE MONTH OF MAY 2012 OR UNLESS JESUS COMES, THE CRISIS IN CALVARY WILL NOT BE RESOLVED. WE HAVE A KING DYNASTY THAT RULES IN THE CHURCH THAT WILL NOT LET GO. WHOEVER GO AGAINST THEM, THEY WILL BE AXED.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at May 5, 2012 4:30 AM
There are few ungodly strategic that PG is using:
1: Build CCC and people will return and forget about his sins and corruptions.
2: Keep the news low profile, discourage people reading CT, portray as though as people against him just merely as low faith to believe God can provide. Don't let people bring awareness of his corruption. Tell the world it is just internal arguement. Pretend nothing happen to otehr pastors and portray a happy go lucky gospel. This include ask followers to ex-communicate whoever who bring greater awareness.
3: Plant guilt in the heart of God's people regarding giving tithes and pledges. Make them fear for their salvation so that they could give money to church, instead of asking for God's mercy.
But many are doing something that aganst his strategic:
1: People are leaving CC and will never return no matter CCC is built or not. It is not about facility of the church institution. It is about godly integrity.
2: People are spreading news of PG''s corruption, including CT. As they disperse to other church, so it the news about PG.PG may try to influence his cronies to preach against TTG, but the evidence of his ungodly is significant and people are aware.
3: People TOTT. They begin to give purposefully that is to real needs rather than to fund rich pastors.
Oops, actually there is anoter strategic PG is using, that is the strategic of endurance. You see, most people are begin to get tired of CC saga and move on and forget about it. In fact, that is what PG wanted and his followers often ask other to forget about it and move on.
Even CT begin to write lesser article per month. The test of endurance is a tough test, especially people are on the hurt side. How long they could mourn. When will the stubborn Pharaoh will repent?
CHURCH SERVICE MESSAGE : PAY UP OR ELSE ...!
Today's Sunday service message by PeeGee1 is a great disappointment to the church congregation. What is very shocking is that such a Sunday service message from the cc pulpit by PeeGee1, has degenerated into basically a nonstop CHANT BEGGING FOR MONEY, more money, and more and more money for ccc ! More like a sales promotion session conducted by the sales management gurus.
Totally NOTHING in the form of SPIRITUAL food at all in its message contents for its audience among the church congregation.
To rub salt into our wounds, PeeGee1's message contained a VEILED THREAT "from God" by saying that God would CURSE anyone who withholds giving tithes, "which rightfully belongs to God". PeeGee1 where in the Bible does it say so ? We know our God is the God of Love. In fact, GOD IS LOVE - THIS VERY SAME GOD GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST TO DIE FOR ALL OUR SINS - So how come such gross misinterpretation of the Bible is allowed, encouraged and even spoken by the church sp ? This is OUTRIGHT BLASPHEMY against God's true teachings!
Are you are saying that God said "PAY UP OR ELSE I WILL CURSE YOU ?" We ask you back did God say like that ? Are you saying our God behaves like an Ah Long ?
We Christian definitely do NOT accept such misnterpretation of the Holy Bible.
Stop misleading the faithful followers with your false teachings. Do not propagate satanic versions of the Holy Bible. Do not put wrong words in the Bible verses.
PeeGee1, btw, with such false teachings, nobody wanted to listen to your BORING sermon, peppered with false teachings ! No wonder most people in the congregation were sleeping, nodding or not paying attention to you at all. From where you were atanding it was very obvious to you that you have lost the respect of the church. So making us stand up and sing teh chorus song does NOT INCREASE YOUR POPULARITY RATING AT ALL !!! And you CANNOT FORCE us to believe your BRAINWASHING CRAP about CCC being the landmark that Malaysia can boast about to the international community !
PeeGee1, we believe you are now finding yourself at the receiving end of exactly how you treat others so badly and cruelly all these years. You have lost the support of your sheep. You should have noticed the big drop in collection amounts. We hope you have also figured the reason why the TOTT gained so many "converts" - alot more people are discovering the truth about your rogue regime. Many many more have left cc for spiritual food in other churches. Have you not notice the very small handful of church people (numbering about 15, not more than 20) turning up on your so called OPEN DAY for a tour of CCC ! twenty people out of five, six thousands who were to fill up your grand landmark, CCC !!!!!
Ever ask yourself why sales of your CCC Carnival coupons are not moving as fast as you hope for ?
We suspect you are getting high blood pressure sweaty palms, palpitations, increased stress, dry mouth, etc -maybe due to pressure from teh banks, contractors, creditors, etc relating to financial matters. Not to mention to ever closer deadlines due dates, etc. whatever it is there is no excuse for you to continue your sinful ways.
May Almighty God always continue to confound your evil plans. Amen.
BEST NEWS YET - Your dumb sheep have grown smarter nowadays !
Reference to Anonymous 5/5/2012 8.16 am, no point to form a delegation to meet up with PeeGee1. Based on history of his past behavior, we can quite safely conclude he would continue to practise the "closed door policy." He was not prepared to compromise and negotiate with TTG representatives. he even never bothered to turn up or cancelled appointments with concerned members of the church congregation.
So why should he change now, when he thinks he is fully entrenched in his "kingdom.'
In 2011, Calvary Communication Ministry headed by none other than Jim made a donation to CCC a sum of RM765K.
Prior to 2007, the accounts of the extended ministries were not audited and incorporated in the church's main accounts. When concerned members proposed that the accounts of the extended ministries be audited and incorporated in the church's accounts, PG was strongly objecting to it against popular requests and sound opinion from a senior partner of an accounting firm. It was put to a vote and the assembly accepted this proposal. Sad to say, this was one of the last display of freedom and democracy in CC. A deacon was sacked and 400 members were axed. Why? PG resorted to this high-handed action in his endeavor to remove members who are his NOT yes-men.
In 2007, Communication Ministry had F.D. of RM 749k and accumulated funds of RM1,157k. In 2010, the F.D. was RM845k and accumulated funds was RM962k.
From 2007 to 2011, CC under mission support had given to Communication Min. RM631k under the guise of "equipment" and "operation" support. This funds were not utilized and gradually build up the accumulated funds over the years.
Then came this shock: RM765k to CCC! leaving an accumulated funds of a pathetic RM207k.
This incident of manipulation of the church's money is as clear as water. Park here, park there and then move it! If Communication Min. does not need the money, then it should be returned to the church. What business/right has Communication Min. to give the money (which came from members) freely to CCC which technically has no official dealings with each other.
Btw in 2011, Calvary Life Ministry has a F.D. of RM561k and accumulated funds of RM591k. Seeing the manipulations done in CC under its CEO PG, do not be shocked if in 2012 financial reports next year, CLM will also give a donation to CCC depleting its funds in the process.
FRIGHT, FLIGHT & FIGHT - PART 2
Further to our much earlier blog contribution with the same heading, we represent the "hardcore" handful, remnants, who have steadfastly remained in cc, despite increasingly difficult conditions under the present unholy rogue regime. We are still amused by the uncivil remark by the guest speaker, purportedly a visiting AOG pastor from Jordan, the Middle East, who unkindly labelled us as "fifth columnists" while lending moral support to his buddy priest PeeGee1. Call us whatever you want - it does not matter - troublemakers, terrorists, stubborn, stupid, etc (we don't mind being God's donkeys) - as long as we continue our duty to tell the truth, the whole truth about PeeGee1 being a satanic cult leader. In fact, we deem it a great honor to warn the unwary new members and first timers to cc about PeeGee1's present wrong doings and sinful past. We believe it is our responsibility to forewarn people to be on their guard, against being fooled by his bag of tricks. PeeGee1 is forever trying to entice / persuade others to give, give and give money, while refusing to adhere to truth, to practise transparency, subscribe to accountability, to administer godly governance.
Not surprisingly, so many hundreds, if not thousands had made the tough decision to "abandon ship" especially CC is likened to the "unsinkable Titanic". Like the Titanic one hundred years ago, mankind represented by certain priests / pastors (self declared "annointed ones") unashamedly boasted to God about their great achievements in the form of building the biggest, building the best of the best ... CCC - a landmark in Malaysia for "all the world to see, for all to know ..."
We now await for God's reply to this challenge from this satanic priest, who had spearheaded the construction of craven images of "other gods" in the architecture of CCC, against God's Ten Commandments.
May God have mercy on us. Against heavy odds, the righteous shall emerge victors.
HANDS IN THE COOKIE JAR ... AGAIN
Another defty sleight of hands, our dear PeeGee. Another attempt to transfer funds unnoticed foiled by the righteous side. Desperation has caused you a great miscalculation. Praise God for revealing another of your dark secrets.
Addressing : FRIGHT, FLIGHT & FIGHT - PART 2
Thanks for not abandoning the ship. Praise be to God who always have a small remnant of His people to continue the good work that was started by the earlier TTG brothers and sisters.
We did not abandon the ship. We were thrown overboard. PG & deacons left us to die out in the open but thank God He kept many of us afloat and we drifted to really good churches with very loving and caring pastors.
Hang in there for those who are still in CC but standing firm for God and not bowing to man. The day is coming soon when our Lord God Almighty will vindicate and bring about true justice. Your calling is to continue to be that small light in the midst of darkness. It's your presence in CC services that brings in presence of God and the Holy Spirit with you. Remember, you are the temple of the Holy Spirit, when you are there, the presence of God is there and they will not be able to do as they please.
Take care and keep a low profile so that they will not have reason to throw you out too.
May God blessings and protection be upon all of you who are still in CC and your families. We are praying constantly praying for you all.
During PG's message on Sunday, he spoke about "salvation" and "stagnation". He commented that if the person sitting next to you in church is no more in church because that person has gone from salvation to stagnation. I had a big grin and my spouse asked me what's so funny. My thoughts were - no, they are not stagnant. One, they may have left for another church to find spiritual food or two, they were axed because they stood for truth, transparency and good governance and PG is going all out to remove those who do not submit to him.
His arrogance came to the fore when he said "it's better that those who had become stagnant don't come to church". Good shepherds will not turn you away but find means to encourage you. PG is treating CC like his own private domain.
On another note. I had remarked to my spouse that SK had toned down his call for giving the past few weeks. Then on Sunday, the explosion came. SK was again his usual self asking for money and more money. That was not the end. PG also did a hard sell. He was literally begging. He asked millionaires to see him to give a loan to the church so that the church need not draw its loan and thus save money on the interest. All the "feel good" feeling that PG, SK and the leaders dish out is a drama!
"a small light in the midst of darkness"
Not so. The Bible clearly says to come out of such places and not be partakers of her sins. If you stay in a snake pit, you risk getting bitten, If your leaders are blind guides, you and they will be stumbling and will fall in the ditch. We are told not to keep company with renegades lest we become like them, there are no noble reasons for staying in a dry and hostile environment which is not worthy of martyrdom. Get out now and go where the river of God's blessings is flowing; don't give Satan anymore opportunity to defeat you by draining all faith out of you!
RUN, DON'T WALK OUT OF CC; DON'T LOOK BACK! REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE! DON'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN, CC WILL BE IN SMOLDERING RUINS AND YOU WILL BE A PILLAR OF SALT!
SK was again his usual self asking for money and more money.That was not the end.PG also did a hard sell. He was literally begging. He asked millionaires to see him to give a loan to the church so that the church need not draw its loan and thus save money on the interest. All the "feel good" feeling that PG, SK and the leaders dish
..............................................
A Comment on the above
THE ABOVE WAS WHAT THE TTG STTOD UP AGAINST.WE SAW THE DAY COMING AND NOW IT HAS ARRIVED INSIDE OUR ONCE ANOINTED CHURCH.ONCE UPON A TIME CC WAS CASH RICH-EVEN AFTER SP'S FLEECING.BUT NOW..CC's HONOUR AND DIGNITY HAS COLLAPSED INTO THE DUST.It would indeed be more honourable to put on a Buddhist Monks robe and walk about with a begging bowl then claim to represent Christ interests,crown oneself with lofty religious titles,and start begging within a Church while holding a Holy Bible.
CC SHEEP- DONT YOU ever NOTICE? WHAT IS BEFORE OUR EYES?ARE THESE THE WORKS CHRIST?YOU HAVE BEEN DELUDED!DID YOU READ ANYWHERE IN THE NT WHERE THE MINISTERS WENT ON A BEGGING SPREE?OR EVEN IN THE ENTIRE OT?
SP AND BACKSLIDDEN DEVILS ARE SHAMELESSLY AT IT AGAIN.(No need to borrow a single cent from the Bank-eh?)and now the World Award for the best religious liar goes to SP and crew!! Clapp...clap....standing ovation...whistles...
His arrogance came to the fore when he said "it's better that those who had become stagnant don't come to church
......................................
Its plain SP is backslidden and no more hears the promptings of the Holy Spirit.Thats the spirit of AOG manifesting here- treating the church as their own personal inheritance.MAYBE CC MEMBERS SHOULD SAY TO SP & FAMILY-"IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE AT CC,YOU CAN LEAVE NOW.AND PLEASE LEAVE FAST!!":
10 REASONS WHY THE AOG SYSTEM IS NOT BIBLE BASED.
1.There was not a single minister in the entire NT,where someone had a "Rev" Title pre-fixed before their names.There was no Rev.Matthew,no Rev.Mark,no Rev.Luke,no Rev.John,Rev.Simon Peter and no Rev Paul(But today the AOG is filled with so called Reverends)One needs the anointing of God to serve- not titles behind which to hide and to abuse.
2.The AOG teaches that believers must pay 10% of their income as tithes.Above that is offerings.(They always forget to teach the church that those teachings are from the Levitical Laws and does not apply to the NT Christians)
3.In the NT,there was no one person who presided over the church as a Pastor.But they had elders and deacons.( Having 1 man over the church can lead to abuses-as SP has clearly proven to all Churches)
4.The main leader of the church must have no direct say in the church finances.But dont try to tell this to the AOG Reverends.It all sounds Greek to them.
5.Church Ministers must be seperated to the Ministry of the Word-and not to start begging for $$$ using the pulpit.All Pastors have a role model in Christ.
6.The modern church has no time for the poor, but if you "yau kam toh cheen"-they will make plenty of time for you.
7.The AOG does not like house churches sprouting-claiming they can break away from
the church.The fact is- ALL churches in the entire NT met in homes.
8. There was no 1 person claiming to be an overseer of all the churches- in the form of a General Superindendant.
9.NT church was people based- not $$ based.
10. The Protestant movement is critical of other faiths. There was no such thing in the NT- they justlived & witnessed for Jesus.
The Anonymous Lady who wrote about moving on and finding a new and wonderful place of worship reflects the feelings for my wife and I.
We were both dismayed with all the going ons in CC and although we are not officially Members of CC we had worshipped and done our bit at CC for 10 years. We have now found another Church which not only gives us peace and spiritual guidance but also opened our eyes to a whole new meaning as to what it means to know and love our Lord. We feel liberated and transformed and we go forth each day knowing that Our Lord has given us His grace and mercifully atoned for all of our sins. Praise God!
We are very busy and excited nowadays reading the bible,expounding the Word and learnt the true Word of grace and peace. No more being hounded with money every week and running on dry.
.............................................
Response to above blogger Anonymous on May 8, 2012 6:39 PM
God bless you,lady for sharing your experience.A certain Bible teacher was relieved from her duties at CC with the reason that "you no longer share CC vision"
Just re-read the above words again-"No more being hounded with money every week and running on dry". This is indeed a shameful state of affairs.Not only have they become pastoral beggars- SP has an expert thick skinned Salesman to back him up.RY-Quote-"Give now and ask why later".
Who cares whether you have enough money for your own family's well being? Most of us earn modest incomes,live in modest homes and drive modest vehicles.But notice the lifestyle of these so-called Reverends.Each necktie they wear itself is worth more than a hundred bucks!!!And a brand new CRV? That Pentecostal Salesman RY ought to sell it and give it to the new CCC as an example of sacrifice!! These are the worldly ministers & wolves that the Scriptures warned us about.
SP asking millionaires to come forward and loan $$$ to the church!!! I recorded that money appeal on my phone.In case he does not realize it- soliciting $$$ from the public without a license is an offence in Malaysia.It makes no difference if the con job is done within a church with a cross hanging on its doors.
TO THE REST OF DUMP SHEEP AT CC-PRAY BEFORE OPENING YOUR EARS TO THESE RELIGIOUS MONSTERS OR BETTER STILL GET UP AND FIND ANOTHER CHURCH AS THE ABOVE FAMILY DID!!
He asked millionaires to see him to give a loan to the church so that the church need not draw its loan and thus save money on the interest.
...................................................
hahahahaha...hehehehe....hohoho........PO -"We have enough $$$ to complete the new CCC!!"
HAHAHAHA....HOHOHOHHO....HEHEHEHEHE.....
it's better that those who had become stagnant don't come to church".
.............................................
Yeap, we heard the above words of Sunday.But we think it is the leadership that has gone stagnant.Don't come to church? You think it is your fathers property? Or were you crucified for our sins? Or baptized in your name? The whole leadership have become a sort of comedians fit for a circus.And who caused the church to be stagnant?Many of us believe that SP has got entangled in so many affairs not from God-his habgitual lying,asking for "millionaires to come foward" to led $$$,concealing the actual bad situation,and usuing the CC constitution as his shield.
Right now what we have behind CC's pulpit is a pastor for Baal & Mammon. All bloggers here should pray for the remaining sheep left at CC for protection against this Modern Day Rev.Judas Iscariot.
SO WHY ARE THERE STILL ATTENDING CC?
The reasons are rather difficult to analyze.Firstly that religious devil has got mesmerizing eloquence.But I get the suspicion some of them are still there because of their parents or children.
People like me visit once in a while to see his personal "sandiwara" on stage- putting on a straight face as though nothing is happening.Or maybe he is boiling within that he has been exposed and the suspicious sheep are silently watching him.
I SAW A STAR FALLEN TO THE GROUND...REVELATION
Who has gone stagnant? With the obsession to complete CCC and the resulting financial woes, PG has one eye on the dollar sign and one eye on the freemasonry designed monument.
Will they partition the sanctuary like what they are doing during services at CC.
The last time Richard Roberts was in CC, he said that he will come for the opening ceremony and bring his wife. So will Richard who was arrested for drunk driving come with his second wife for the ceremony if there is one. How about Guynes who condones freemasonry, come too? And get all expenses paid, staying in Ming Hotel and may also get US10,00 for his effort.
Let's see the who's who at the ceremony.
Anonymous 8th May, 2.00am is absolutely right when he said... "The bible clearly says to come out of such places & not be partakers of her sins". Those who are against the CC leadership but still remained in CC with the hope that God will do 'something extraordinary' and bring them victory to get CC back to right path must realised it simply will not happened. God is not like that, for they have their Bibles and if daily reading the Word of God won't bring them to their senses, then nobody can changed them. To achieve victory over them you need to get rid of SP and all his pastors & BOD. How are you to do that? do you think this can happened. You must also know that you can never gain any spiritual nourishment staying in CC from these false ministers no matter how they preached. Time is precious. The Spirit of God is no more there and its the spirit of anti christ that is in control of CC right now. It is not about giving up hope or lose faith in God for a victory. It calls for spiritual wisdom and I believe in accordance with the bible God commands us to "Come out of them and be not yoked with evil doers" Coming out of them is the victory that God is giving you, so leave their camp and come on over to the side of God. Let them together with the flock who followed them to continue in their sins and face the destruction that is befalling them.
“He asked millionaires to see him to give a loan to the church so that the church need not draw its loan and thus save money on the interest.”
May 7, 2012 8:44 PM
To all who still attend and those who know of anyone who attends Calvary Church D’sara, please first ask PG some questions.
Since CCC is PG’s Vision, Surely, here are some areas they can
give their $pare-small change:
1. Has PG, PG2, Jim G and Pam G, who are ALL Millionaire many times
over given a “LOAN” to CCC?
i) why, all of them should at the very least Mortgage their multi-
Million dollar houses in M’sia (Easily amounts to RM1oMillion)
And in USA and wherever else! --that would surely be some tens of
Millions USD
ii) withdraw their EPF, again Million$
iii) Withdraw their FD from the Banks Local & Overseas
iv) Sell their Branded Cars
v) Use their Annual Salary, Bonuses, (another Rm2 Million PER
Annum)
I mean, it’s just asking PGs to LOAN, not even give, mind you.
Just like they have ‘assured’ those whom they enticed to ‘Loan’ to CCC, which means they will also get their money back! (it’s merely an “ADVANCE”- another sales term PG love to use to hookwink the gullible
2) The same goes for the all the Asst Pas: P.Ong, T.Ong, SKum, R.Yong,
D.Seah. R.Yuen ( all Millionaires now, after 2-3 decades of
Employment with ‘oversized’ salary & fabulous perks
3) the B.O.D and Head of CCC Committees too, should put the Money where their mouth is, since they are totally sold-out to PG and his CCC
Unless the Congregation is completely under PG’s Spell, they will hear the Still Small Voiceand FLEE from him.
Has PG & his family,and his pastors, and his CCC heads given any "LOAN" to complete his CCC, to set an example first before hunting down the "Millionaires" in the congregation?
ps:
Btw before these "millionaires" even could ponder PG's invite to see him, they are already on his TARGET LIST! He is ahead of you fellas many steps.
AGM is on 25 MAY.
Can someone (VM) attending, please ask:
How much has PG & PG2 & JIM G JR & Pam given, or loan, IF any, to CCC?
or ask a milder version:
What kind of "SACRIFICES " they have made since day one in 2005?
LET”S REFRESH OUR MEMORY.
This is how PG has been leading the Congregation on to fulfill his ultimate CCC dream:
In the 90’s
Hartamas—“there is a wonderful land we found…in no time it disappeared from his “Vision”
Next, better to expand DH—“let’s acquire the Surrounding Bungalows…”— ( and we did with sacrificial giving) Architectual plan done, approval obtained…then out of the blue “Let’s be good neighbours, abort it !”
In 2000’s
PG has NEW Vision.. a 5,000 seating church…
that require ONLY RM50 Million to build ( our jaw-dropped at the Whooping amount!)
then it became RM150Million (RM50 million was a Mistake!said PG without batting an eyelid
soon RM 200 Million,..and then up again --RM250Million (enough for phase1 ONLY!) actual cost hits RM300Million, and still rising to complete PG’s Master Plan of CCC
Have you ever been told this “Vision “ will turn CC to be Condo ‘developer’ (joint venture with EXSIM)
And the latest, a new company (Special Purpose Vehicle!!) is formed to manage CCC and to become a promoter for Secular EVENTS to earn income?
And all the Bungalows will be sold-off…
Loan of Multi- Millions from the Bank
And every Ministry ‘coffer’ to be emptied…
Every CC member now a DEBTOR.
The pioneering work of the Missionaries and founding members laid down with love, tears, blood and sweat completely wiped-out by a Carnal spirited PG.
From what Woken-Up said on May 9 2012 11:19 pm, IT CLEARLY SHOWS that:-
1. PG is a False Prophet. If he were an annointed servant of God and a true prophet, will not all his visions (which he purportedly said was received from God) materialize.
2. and All those who followed him so obediently and blindly WITHOUT questioning his credibility are DUMB sheep (as so many bloggers have pointed out) will surely not only be led astray and will be led to their doom IF THEY DO NOT WAKE UP.
They are going to learn the hard way.
OUR PASTORS COMMENT-LAST SUNDAY PREACHING
ITS CLEAR THAT TTG ARE SORE LOSERS- THEY HAVE FOUGHT IN CHURCH AND IN COURT AND HAVE LOST.BUT THEY ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT THAT FACT.IN FACT I THINK SATAN IS USING THEM NOW TO TRY AND DESTROY GODS PURPPOSE FOR CALVARY.
(This mustached AOG Reverend- he's a lookalike to of neighbourhood pimp only a few doors away)
This man is annoying the church folks by making comments like that during Sunday Service.I go to church to hear Gods Word being preached-not TO HEAR PASTORS CRAP.He should mind his own business and look into church affairs.As it is- we have quite a few people here in our church with gambling and drinking problems- not to mention the youth who are forever looking into their I-pods and laptops during the service.
AN OLDIE IN CHURCH(I think TTG stood up for what is right & necessary.I feel a kindred spirit with AXED TERUK)
WHY CC'S LEADERSHIP IS DANGEROUS
There is no doubt at all that the CC crisis has not subsided as anticipated & SP's refusal to come out with clean hands.It appears that all the other stinking pastoral staffs have decided to continue with their tricks and bring out more rabbits from the hat.
Those who opposed to the so called "vision" were axed in an arbitrary manner.Calls for transparency went unheeded.When questioned,RY began to preach about Noah's obedience- how he obeyed God without question.Since then many have moved away to other pastures.
After the crisis,I noticed that none of the pastoral staff made any attempts to heal the rift.But the money appeal just got worse.
WE cant oppose these men because they are backslidden.But I think after the election- they are in for a nasty turn of events.Flee from the wrath to come.
RUN TO THE MOUNTAINS
Does anyone know why SP has not tendered in his resignation yet? There are so many complaints against him so why is still sitting around? I believe he can find another job in the secular world.Maybe the salary will be smaller but I am sure he can get some kind of commissions.My family & me will only return after he leaves.But it seems to be a long wait.
Further to Anonymous May 9, 7:12pm, the following was reported in tulsaworld:
Richard Roberts received an 18-month probation, and no jail time, upon pleading guilty to a charge of driving under he influence of alcohol.
He also pleaded guilty to a speeding count.
In accordance with a plea agreement reached, the judge made no finding of guilt and deferred sentencing until October 2013.
In the Reader Comment column, one wrote that "it is a slap on the wrist". Another wrote that "the Tulsa DA Tim Harris is a graduate of ORU" where Roberts was a former president.
When questioned,RY began to preach about Noah's obedience- how he obeyed God without question
.................................
Response to the above
RY was not there for preaching Gods Word-but he sure was twisting Gods Word.He was there just to raise more $$$ for CCC. Perhaps that is his his current assignment from SP.So like a energetic dog on a leash he does the masters bidding.
Just notice him when he is up there,and unleashing his "obedience to God" talk. This is what usually happens when an AOG Rev's bites more than he can chew.
Firstly it affects the pastors preaching. No matter which text the pastor chooses- the end appeal is the same..."Give...give....Look at the phrases I have heard at CC for the past year.It is self explanatory to my critics.
1. Give generously....give..give
2. Give sacrificially...give...give...
3. Give in obedience....give...give...
4. WE are giving you an opportunity to give...
5. Invest in Gods Kingdom....give....give
6. For Jesus sacrifice on the cross....we give...generously..give
7. For God so loved the world that HE GAVE,..... so give...give...
8. Give and it shall be given unto you.....
9. Today I feel led by the Holy Spirit to collect a "special offering..."
10.the Holy Ghost told me to collect another offering....give..
11. she broke the alabaster flask ...gave her precious all....thats an example ....give...
12. Tithes are different from offerings.....give...give....
13. Millionaires..come foward and give a loan....give...
14.be part of a landmark church.....give...give...
15.God is giving you an aopportunity to be part of his great work...so give...
16.You dont eat in one restaurent and pay in another reatsurent.....
17.Today is a reminder to pay up your pledges...give...
18.Let us turn to the Book of Malachi....YOU HAVE ROBBED ME SAITH THE LOOOORRDDD!!!!!THIS WHOLE NATION IS CURRRRSEEEDD!~!!!(soft music in the background)
19.Give and it shall be given unto you!!!!..blessings will pour into your lap... give...give..
20.Fast offering (not being used recently) - The believer dosen't eat but gives that money to the church..
OF COURSE THE MOST CLASSIC MONEY APPEAL-NEEDS NO INTRODUCTION- $RY$ ---DESCRIBED BY ONE BLOGGER AS A SALESMAN....
Dont ask why...obey now and ask why later....dont miss the opportunity....give...give...
21. When God blesses you....make sure you give....give..
My personal condolences to those sheep who have to sit through this "ministry?" of the Holy Ghost?
LETS CONTINUE WITH THE BERSIH CALVARY CHURCH-AND LET GOD SHINE IN EVERY NOOK AND CORNER OF CC. LET THE STRUGGLE CONTINUE.
SPEAKING of The ALABASTER FLASK...
When PG should decide to 'Give', be sure there will a grand stage to
dramatise the 'act'--as he did by the illustrated 'breaking of the Alabaster flask' many years ago at Bukit Jalil Stadium
(by the way, it was told he cut his hand in the course of the "demo" with co-star Skum )
In the Bible the Alabaster Flask was the all and the very best the woman could give to The Lord. So, PG had cleverly inferred that some months of the ALLOWANCE money (note, it was not his fat Salary) he gave was his very best and all he had? and that it meant The End of his 'giving' ?
Yes, imagine it was merely his allowance, but he made it LOOKED LIKE it was his ENTIRE FORTUNE!
( and how he even lamented "oh, Poor me" now..
my wife got to support me...) Credit to him for the pulling-off the act
cos many were 'touched' or misled, to be correct.
Does anyone know why SP has not tendered in his resignation yet? There are so many complaints against him so why is still sitting around? By Anonymous on May 10, 2012 4:04 PM
..............................................
I want to share my personal thoughts on the above comment by the blogger(Pardon the lengthy comment)
Firstly,any self respecting man would have stepped down long ago in the light of the allegations-not by 1 person but more than 400.But SP & Crew "Sudah Murtad"(Apostates)There is no other definition.
Even a Court Case did not deter SP from standing down.But he is continuing his ministry with all these allegations hanging over his head.And his crew are tagging along with him instead of resigning.Nobody has told them to commit "Japanese Harakiri"but in such a situation,the decent thing to do is to step down until their names are cleared.But that is an unheard of thing in the AOG denomination.
Personally,as a team they should step down and go for a time of prayer and reflection- maybe to Station of Life.But instead they have stayed around and have gone into defensive mode.
The allegations are of a serious nature- affecting their very credibility as pastors.So far there have not been satisfactory answers.Just denials.And SP has not offered himself for a thorough investigation.If there is nothing to hide,then firstly his salary,benefits and other entitlements should be printed out and pasted on the church notice board for the sheep to see.Has his income approved by the members at CC?Come clean SP & gang.(TTG-the 3 pillars)Nothing to hide? Sure? The whole truth? Whats the real story?
One should question him as the circumstances of Dr.Lums sudden dismissal-w/r it was done in accordance with the CC constitution.My own undestanding is that is was arbitrary.Just issuing a letter and expelling a long time senior member - does SP have such powers vested in him? Where did he get that power to dismiss someone summarily? He owes an explanation to whole church as to why he did that,AND WHERE HE GOT THAT POWER FROM- but until now - NO EXPLANATIONS.
Recently a lady minister In the Cabinet had to step down due to alleged financial mismanagement.But SP and crew refuse to be accountable.Maybe the church has become a source of livelihood for them and out in the secular world,few would take them seriously.
Serious malpractices have occured at CC- and no other AOG minister has stepped in even to make an enquiry.The Pastors who arrived just tried to sweep the dirt under the carpet.One even appeared to be a'lower intelligence' sort of AOG Rev-just screaming "CLARIFICATION!CLARIFICATION!'in response to members queries.How can a Rev. be capable of such outrageous stupidity?Even the young people understood the questions! But not that Reverend.It was obvious he was here to "help cover up".SP & teams continued presence at CC is already in question. It is high time the members woke up and start asking pointed questions- without fear.Stand your ground and dont give in. In my opinion, asking a church for truth, transparency and good governance cannot be described as the work of satan.
God bless You all.
THE 6TH COLUMNIST
On Freemansonry, an anti christ organisation, a leading spokesperson of an occultic society plainly stated & revealed that satan will infiltrate the NT churches with freemansonry & corrupt christianity from within. Oral Roberts a 33rd Degree Freemason had used an inverted triangle with freemason symbols/logo on his ORU.
In Calvary church, the false prophet PG and his fallen pastors had engaged a freemason architect to design CCC resembling a Pharoah's tomb with freemason symbols on it. If these leaders & this American pastor Guynes knew the dark evil history of Freemansonry, and I am sure had crossed their minds that perhaps a Holy & Righteous God is against any dark & evil secret society, WHY THEN did they still allowed & enshrined freemansonry upon their premises? STRANGE!! Who are these people but are agents of satan and they knew not. Again I say to those still remaining in CC not to be deceived by the outward innocense & harmless appearance of these "pastors" for inside them the Lord called them "ravenous wolves", and are "ministers of satan". They have corrupted the Word of God with freemansonry and by daringly twisting & misinterpreting what God had said to achieve their aims.
Friend, you only can 'bersih' yourself by heeding to the still small voice of God, "COME OUT OF THEM MY PEOPLE & DO NOT YOKE WITH EVIL DOERS".
I AGREE- SP NO LONGER IS A MINISTER. HE HAS TAKEN THE PLACE OF KING SAUL WHO INCURRED THE WRATH OF SAMUEL AND GOD.BE WAR OF THAT MAN.
At offering time today, SK was begging for more giving. He announced that the interest cc has to pay is more than RM100k a month. Has cc draw more loan which was not let known to members? If the loan still stands at RM14mil, then the interest rate is 8.5% per annum.
The financial situation is deteriorating fast and the pressure on the leadership is building up.
Even PG2 during her message today, joined the bandwagon asking for more money.
Keep the TOTT running
Besides paying the Rm100k interest a month, what is the monthly Principal amount payable ? When will the Defaulter List appear if cannot service the LOAN for Four (4) consecutive months ? What a price CC has to pay for continuing to keep CEO PG in her payroll ! NIGHTMARES coming in the open for all to preview ?
At offering time today,SK was begging for more giving. He announced that the interest cc has to pay is more than RM100k a month
................................................
THIS IS WHAT WE AT TTG STOOD UP AGAINST AT THE BEGINNING.BUT WE WERE BOOTED OUT.
1.Can believers worship in an atmosphere like this?
2. has it occurred to them that there may be people at CC struggling to pay their bills,put food on their tables and send their children for a mediocre education?(like me and and I know- many others)
3.CC sheep are being stressed out financially and it seems like they dont care.
4. 100 K a month? And who dragged CC into such a debt?
5. It was the leaderships doing so let them pay for it- don't beg from the sheep.
6.And what happened to the power plays of axing so many?
7. AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PRIDEFUL STATEMENT - we dont have to borrow a single cent from the bank?? AND NOW 100k A MONTH??
I cannot possibly imagine the level of PRIDE,UTTER STUPIDITY AND DONKEY STUBBORNESS some of these AOG Reverends are capable of!!!!Its almost like they are walking about with a hidden disease inside them.This is just so frightful.
I WANT TO SAY IT AGAIN- WHAT AN UNBELIEVEABLE LEVEL OF STUPIDITY!!!THE SHEEP ARE GONE, THE MONEY SPRINGS HAVE DRIED UP AND CC'S REPUTATION IS GONE. AND WHEN ARE THE REMAINING SHEEP GOING TO STAND UP AND SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!"
FELLOW SHEEP-DONT GO THROUGH THIS --STAND UP AND GO HOME AND PRAY QUIETLY TO JESUS."MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE" -and he speaks very clearly when we are away from these diseased so -called Shephards.Run- brother/sister run!!
At offering time today, SK was begging for more giving.
.............................................
I am not surprised.He has been hanging around that Pentecostal Salesman RY and the effect is showing.Difference being SK did not quote Noah and Ark!!!
If we add up all the salaries of all the pastors in CC plus JG, would it be enough to pay for monthly interest of RM100,000.00?
Re the Question:If we add up all the salaries of all the pastors in CC plus JG, would it be enough to pay for monthly interest of RM100,000?
May 15, 2012 12:32 AM
ANSWER: 2010, the Salary in the Annual Report was approx
Rm2.377 MILLION
(Excluding EPF, another RM285,000)
( note: Annual Increment is Guaranteed!)
Millions in Salary for Pastors (reasonable to apply 80:20 Pascal Rule, hence discount max 20% for all other non-exec. staff—who are often told to offer to serve as “Living Sacrifice” i.e. paid in megre salary/Allowance.
Question: Why do PG, his pastors and BOD are always looking to the
members, visitors, and even public for money to either give
offering or pay off CCC loan interest when they can FIRST do
their part?
P/s According to the comment on May 9, 2012 10:17 PM, they have
amass so much, and still living it-up the rich & famous lifestyle.
"Sacrifice" apply to everyone else except themselves seems the case.
You all CC pastors should be role models and be the first to use your money to pay of loans interest or else you have no right to ask the members to give. Prove & live by what you preach for others to see or else just 'SHUT UP'.
Mismanaging and benefiting yourselves for your comfort living from church funds which are members hard earned money and which belonged to God is robbing God. You religious scroundels
are nohing but a "den of thieves".
why should the pastors' salaries be kept so secretive? Staff cost of RM2.377 million a year is a very very big figure.
Members are entitled to know the breakdown figures.
Personally I like to give the benefit of the doubt in internal church disputes. I have no friends in CC from either group - CC leadership or those affiliated with this blog
But if MONTHLY INTEREST is RM 100,000, as an outsider I cannot but question the wisdom of the CCC project. The amount of money just for interest servicing boggles my mind.
Also it is personally disturbing to me as RM 100,000 a month would be around 2.8 times my last ANNUAL take home salary when I was a pastor in Malaysia (despite that being 5 years ago). And this was with 3 earned theology based degrees and over 15 years of ministry experience.
Luke 14:28-30 immediately jumps to mind
28 "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?
29 For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him,
30 saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
If I am accused of poking my nose into matters that are not my business, so be it. I think I need to go on record to say that IMHO this CCC issue is becoming or has already become a matter beyond CC as a local church and it does not look good from the perspective of people like me who live far away and have no connection with CC.
Posted by Paul to Calvary Today at May 16, 2012 5:00 AM
Just a thought. If the CC Project is going to finally cost about RM350 million, that would mean that based on their current Membership of 3,000 members it would cost each member RM116,000 since CC memebers are the main source of financing through their giving.This excludes the Maintainence & Repair costs, interst costs and other compulsory payments to the Govt. This also assumes that the membership number today is still around 3,000. Boggles the mind when one think of the economics involved.
CC is no more a Christ Centered church.It has become a place to hurt and abuse others and "a den of thieves"Some of these AOG pastors are like leopards that cannot change their spots.I have sat under an AOG Reverend who was just so abusive and a hopeless gossip- constantly talking of others misdeeds.So called spiritual authority.Sometimes these monkeys have to be told off.Just like secular jobs- they are not working for free but I suspect earn more than the rest of us.
They "sek faan" using $$ collected from the church and yet behave as though they are the "Tai Koh" of the church.These are the styles of the current Reverends- not Ministers of Christ.
Nor do they give free service to others. From my understanding- even if they are invited to preach in other churches- they still get a love offering. But to the public- they appear to be serving Christ.
But it is the naive people who suffer under their so called ministries.
A Visitor to this Blog.
ANSWER: 2010, the Salary in the Annual Report was approx
Rm2.377 MILLION
...........................................
WHOOOOOOOOOOPPS!!!!!MAMA--MIA!!!!ONE WONDERS WHY THE FIGURE IS APPROXIMATE.IN THE SECULAR WORLD- ALL MONIES MUST BE AUDITED BY CERTIFIED ACCOUNTANTS - AND ALL EXPENDITURE MUST BE ITEMISED RIGHT DOWN TO THE LAST CENT.
BUT SP NEED NOT EXPLAIN BECAUSE ACCORDING TO HIM "I AM NOT AN EMPLOYEE".THE RETIREMENT CLAUSE ONLY AFFECTS OTHER PASTORAL STAFF.
WELL-WE CAN GUESS WHY THEY ARE ABLE TO AFFORD BRAND NEW CRVS & VOLVOS.THERE IS A SLY DECEIVER IN THE HOUSE WHOSE HANDS ARE INTO THE COOKIE JAR.
I TELL YOU CC FOLKS-GET UP AND GO HOME!!YOU DONT NEED THIS CONMAN TO GUIDE YOU INSPIRITUAL MATTERS.HE IS JUST NOT QUALIFIED.
RM2.377 MILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY.Now that the cat is out of the bag,SP and gang should just resign and leave.They should only stay if the church still wants them around.But if they have any more self respect in them- then they will step down voluntarily.But it appears that this is not going to happen.
The church must send a clear message to these religious parasites in our midst.It may even be categorised as a criminal activity.My sources tells me SP never travels economy class.Nobody has seen him at an Air Asia terminal and probably never will.
Dera Christian Brothers / Sisters- dont give your hard earned money to these professional beggars operating within a church.Send it to some orphanage or house for widows.
"...AND THEIR EYES WERE OPENED....
ANSWER: 2010, the Salary in the Annual Report was approx
Rm2.377 MILLION
.............................................
One Sunday Sermon at CC I remember..
We must all live by faith...God will provide... but we are taught in the Scriptures to give generously but live modestly.....
HAHAHAHAHAHA....HEHEHEHE....HOHOHO.......THE CC SHEEP HAVE BEEN TAKEN FOR A RIDE.....HAHAHAHAHA
Figure in the CC account not the total staff cost. Extended ministries have their own payroll, e.g. the Home Schooling Dept. Missions Department also.
Ones wonder how anyone can just carry on in the light of all that has been poured out here.Are their skins so thick that they are unable to feel anything? Spiritually,there is definitely something wrong in CC's situation.Just observing the situation,there is ample evidence of deception going on in CC.
The damage that has been caused at CC cannot be repaired until the present leadership packs up and leave.My colleagues are together with me in this regards to this opinion-we have something like a cell group here in the working place and have stopped going to church for a season but meet among ourselves.Nobody asks anyone for any money.
Reading the Annual Report 2011, the stipend 9the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines this as salary esp[ paid to a clergyman) is RM2,430,362 excluding all other contributions.
In 2011, the cash and F.D. of RM27mil. End of 2011, it had RM9.3mil.
On the notice board, the voting members is 610 and assoc. members is 636.Giving a total of 1246. Put in another 500 worshippers and it is only 1746. The church must be thinking of mobile partitions when it is opened. 5000 seating capacity? There will be rows upon rows of empty seats.
The Staff Cost under Stipend in the Statement is RM2.43 million and no details are given. Are we to vote BLINDLY in the AGM?
Hi everyone out there, has it dawned on you that since the "conception" of CCC, the focus has been and still is (like forever) on nothing but Money?
100% Energy, and focus is on getting Money to build this brick & mortar Convention Centre. Every Sunday msg, every event and activity...
every BOD meeting...
So, PG and all his associates and staff have been 100% PRE-occupied with CCC, that the True Word of God has been totally neglected!
Tragic.
In 2011, the stipend is RM2.43mil. What is the total number of staff (pastors and non-pastoral) in CC?
A big chunk will have gone to PG and his G dynasty. Go figure!
RISING…KEEP RISING
A) While SK was doing his part in DH last Sunday. his good friend and buddy RY was doing his mini sermon in cheras.
As usual like the other CC pastors (PO, DS, RY2 included), RK RATTLED OFF those words and phrases that the cheras and other sheep have been exposed to WEEK AFTER WEEK ALMOST WITHOUT FAIL… “CC the fountainhead church…building of CCC…give so CC can minimize loan drawdown…tithes that belong to God…every coupon sold is a contribution to the building of ccc”
Then the not so unexpected “CC WILL HAVE TO PAY INTERST OF MORE THAN RM100,000.00 IF CONTINUE TO TAKE THE LOAN”
Looking at how the ccc saga has continue and how CCC HAS GOBBLED UP THE CHURCH FINANCES & ASSETS ( CC’S ACCUMULATED FUNDS & ASSETS OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS OR SO ) this latest news was NOT UNEXPECTED. In fact the way he mentioned it without batting an eyelid and so casually; many in the congregation may not even catch it!
Then then added one of his favourites “God have bless you so much” {Read: U better give!!}
He also reminded the cheras congregation “God has a purpose for us in this church” {Read: U in CC u share the vision of building CCC…so u give}
B) As if what RY did was not enough, PO had to go on stage/pulpit to give us the 2nd mini sermon
PO gave an altar call. And know what? The first thing he prayed for the sheep was for FINANCIAL BREAKTHROUGH.
Nothing wrong with that. But what he continued after that makes me think what he was more interested in…GENUINE CONCERN FOR THE SHEEP FINANCIAL NEEDS OR CCC. He said… “…financial breakthrough… BE FAITHFUL TO TITHE…GIVE TO CCC!!!...”
C) The 3rd mini sermon on giving to meet ccc RISNG & EVER RISING COSTs was in PG2 sermon
When PG2 mentioned the 5th quality of the Shunammite woman, she emphasized on the sacrificial giving…. “when u give u receive so give continually…the more u give the more u receive…”
What is the ACTUAL COST of ccc? One thing is certain…RISING… RISING…KEEP RISING
On another note the election of deacons is just around the corner. If the trend of past years continues bloggers and readers of this blog can quite easily predict the outcome.
BE WISE AT THE AGM AND TTOTT
GOD BLESS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
DEFINITELY "NO" TO ... PAYING STUPID MONEY, SILLY SALARIES !!!
The caption screams out to the whole world:
"FERGIE SLAMS CHAMPS FOR PAYING "STUPID MONEY, SILLY SALARIES"
'Sir Alex Ferguson last night castigated Manchester City's decision "to spend a fortune, pay stupid money, pay silly salaries," as Roberto Mancini, manager of the newly crowned Premier league champions, urged his board to avoid a repeat of last summer's long winded wheeling and dealing"'. (Newspaper Source: The Sun Sports, (Malaysia) Wed May 16, 2012.)
If sir Alex Ferguson is so strongly protesting against the danger of over paying exorbitantly priced salaries to Premier league football teams, should not our church cc also examine in detail why "the Staff cost under Stipend in the Statement is RM2.43 million" (Quotation from Anonymous May 16, 2012 11.23 pm) ? We believe we could learn some wisdom from Sir Alex Ferguson about prudent financial management.
We the congregation, being regular contributors of tithes faith promises, faith pledges, love offerings, sacrificial givings, besides various funds, etc would like to find out in detail from SP1 and SP2 how come RM2,430,000.00 is paid out as Stipend to cc staff numbering about 43 persons only ? Please refer to earlier copies of Calvary News with names of staff identified on the page, freely distributed to worshippers in the congregation.
We are very concerned that the church leadership exercise more serious thrift and frugality in financial management of its apparently fast shrinking funds, urgently needed to service numerous huge multi million RM bank loans for ccc mega project.
This extremely important item must be included in the coming AGM Agenda, for detailed clarification.
Let us learn from Fergie !
Be thrifty. Especially when we are EXPECTED to be GOOD STEWARDS of God's blessings.
NOT TO STUPID MONEY, SILLY SALARIES !!!!
Are we OVER SPENDING on the ccc mega project ?
100% Energy, and focus is on getting Money to build this Brick & Mortar Convention Centre. Every Sunday msg, every event and activity...
every BOD meeting...
.............................................
BRICK AND MORTAR CONVENTION???
HAHAHAHAHA....HEHEHEHEH....THIS IS GETTING MORE LAUGHABLE BY THE DAY....HOHOHOHOH...SICK AOG PASTORS WHO MUST GO FOR SOME PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT...
Ears have not heard
Eyes have not seen
But this one thing
I have heard
And
I have seen
Faith promise increase
Tithes increase
Offering increase
But
Mission account decrease
Extended ministries account decrease
So another transfer of funds
from left to right
from right to left
Now I know YYYYYYYYYYY
Do you know YYYYYYYYYY?
The increase in 2012 $$$$$$$$
Faith promise increase
Tithes increase
Offering increase
But
Mission account decrease
Extended ministries account decrease
................................................
CC is no more a mission minded church but a diseased church- just like its ministers.Its so relaxing to visit other smaller churches where there are no monkey pastors behind the pulpit.
RY was doing his mini sermon in cheras.
................................................
This so called Pastor has degenerated into a professional beggar.Lets call a spade a spade.100 K a month? Let them mortgaee their homes for the money- or go to the streets to beg!Dont beg from us inside achurch waving a Bible- its disgraceful- but looks like they dont know the meaning of those words.
Its indeed very encouraging to notice that more people are waking up their spiritual slumber at CC.I agree with the thoughts expressed by another blogger here- RY is a salesman at CC.He asks us to give as though our parents have Banks.
“Luke 14:28-30 immediately jumps to mind
28 "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29 For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30 saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.”
Posted by Paul to Calvary Today at May 16, 2012 5:00 AM
May 16, 2012 10:07 AM”
FYI Paul, this “warning” was given by a member at the 2009 AGM.
And of course PG’s (and his team of Asst.pas.& BOD) arrogance did not pay heed to it.
The fact is, this Word of the Lord has already COME to PASS :
The CCC that they are now struggling to complete is ONLY the main Hall (“sanctuary” ) the remaining “parcels” i.e the Educational Block, the Apartments, etc in the Master plan have all been KIV! They have parked in under Phase 2&3.. and no timeline is given. (remain open ended— “as and when we have the money” was how the CCC Committee put it)
So, the Truth as is, is avoided by them. Many, if not all in the congregation still think the promised “deliverables” is the entire package as led to believe from day one. Sadly, all the money they have to-date is not even sufficient …yet, the ID cost is the next call for more money/loans.
This is a bottomless pit they dug for themselves.
Dear YYYYYYYY,
You are absolutely right.
I took a closer look at the Missions & Extended Ministries accounts and this is what I discovered.
From Missions Fund to CCC
RM1,357,526 (They called this INTER-FUND TRANSFERS)
From EM Communications Dept to CCC
RM765,310 (They called this DONATION)
So a total of RM2,122,836 was transfered from left to right. All this is to prove that they still have support for CCC in their Annual Report. You will be hearing them gloating over the tremendous financial support for CCC at the AGM.
And the most shocking discovery is Missions Fund (Faith Promise money) gave to Communications dept RM131,427 (for equipment & operation)
STAFF COST / STIPENDS for 2011.
#1 Church accounts RM2,430,362 + RM249,231 (EPF) = RM2,679,593
#2 Missions accounts RM665,420
#3 Ex-Min accounts RM1,127,166
Total Salary paid to staff = RM4,472,179
More shocking discovery,
2011 - RM4,472,170
2010 - RM4,248,869
there is an increase in salary of RM223,310.
This is Sacrificial living Calvary Church style.
Now we know YYYYYYY no church staff will vote against PG at the AGM.
To Those who are still in slumber in CC
A Harbinger of Doom
A Wake-Up Call - The Call to return to God
What has unfolded thus far is a harbinger of what is to come later. Firstly there were the two unfulfilled visions of PG (namely Sri Hartamas and DH) and now CC getting deeper and deeper into the abyss of debts because of his dream project – CCC.
Woe unto CC for they have forsaken their God and gone their own ways chasing after a rainbow.
Their response to God’s repeated warnings was one of defiance.- the CCC project must go on no matter what. An attitude similar to that displayed by Gaddafi and Hussein Sadam – fight to the last.
Do the judgment patterns given in the Old Testaments on wayward Israel suggest any similar patterns that will befall on wayward church leaders and a wayward church.
Wake up before it is too late.
BANK BALANCE
Church accounts - RM4,571,974
Missions accounts - RM317,489
EM accounts - RM394,828
FIXED DEPOSITS
Church accounts - RM4,796,770
Missions accounts - RM2,852,125
EM accounts _ RM1,488,445
Total CASH & FIXED DEPOSITS = RM14,421,631
So PG is looking for millionaires?????
They are sitting right in his own backyard.
Why is PG hoarding so much money and then go up every Sunday begging from the members who many do not even have RM100,000-00 in cash & fixed deposits??????
WAH LAU A !!!!!!!!
Total Salary paid to staff = RM4,472,179
TOTAL STAFF = 43
ANNUAL PAYMENT FOR STAFF = RM 104,004.00
MONTHLY PAYMENT FOR STAFF = RM 8667.00
And can claim house allowance and car maintenance
CC is a GOLDMINE
Now we know YYYYYYY no church staff will vote against PG at the AGM.
May 17, 2012 10:09 PM
.................................................
The old adage says" Don't bite the hand that feeds you".Of course,when a man serves purely for $$$ then all hanky-panky matters are swept under the carpet.I would not be surprised if the pastoral staff got a bonus of RM10,000 each besides, not to mention the Christmas "love" offering.
The financial misdemeanors at CC are too obvious to be denied at this point of time.All we see up there, are AOG Rev's who refuse to be accountable to this very day. Of course, the fear of exposure has already set in on them.
THE ONLY COURSE LEFT FOR THE REMAINING SHEEP IS TO GET UP AND GO HOME.ITS YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY THAT IS SUPPORTING THEIR LIFESTYLES.
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE
ALL the $$$$$$$$$ are MINE
When I came, it was just a tin MINE
So do not take what is MINE
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE
I have been digging in this MINE
My wife also digging this GOLDMINE
My children are enjoying the MINE
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE
Out you go! do not upset this MINE
Jump into the lake and not the MINE
For this church is MINE
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE
Ask no questions, for I have set my mind
Sermons on GIVING, is in my mind
So touch not all that are mine
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE
OoooooooPs I transfered much to
US, Singapore, Swiss Bank
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Do not ask.......
Or I will tell you more lies!!!!!
YYYYYYYYYYY????????
All voting members must demand the AGM for the details of the Staff Cost. CC is funded by public donations yet there is no transparency in the way monies are spent.
The accounts on the annual report,
Must report increase in $$$$$$$$
If not which bank will give the LOAN ?????
Another manipulation,
Another lie
Another false report
Another wrong doing
Another sin
One after another
CC : FROM ZILLIONS TO ZILCH
CC - the Golden Cow,
Constantly miked,
Over the years
To feed PG01 and family,
Paying for their
Oversized Stipends, Bonuses,
Allowances, Job Benefits,
Incentives,
Love Offerings,
and others,
Expensive Overseas Education,
Exotic Holiday trips,
Business Class Plane tickets,
Five / six Star Hotel stays,
Gourmet Food at Restaurants,
Latest Fashion Purchases,
Gym Life Memberships,
Exclusive Club Memberships,
Privileged Jewelry Viewings,
Upmarket Properties,
Fancy High Powered Cars.
CC - the Golden Cow
No longer the Fat Cow it was,
Being squeezed dry
For money,
Being milked dry
As Living Sacrifice,
Source of their
Grand Family Retirement Plans,
Being torn from limb to limb,
by the heartless
Cult leader.
CC - the Holy Cow
No more,
CC - the DEAD COW,
Finally Expired,
Falling, falling, falling
From Riches to Poverty,
From Zillions to Zilch !
CC - Ground Zero
A Warning From God
To others !
TIME IS NOW
Time to declare we are here, God
Time to be counted on God's aside
Time to call a spade a spade
Time to clean up church
Time to purify Sanctuary
Time to speak Truth
Time to hear God's Words again
Time to invite Holy Trinity back
Time to cry
Time to laugh
Time to heal and
grow again
Time to move on
Time to sow
Time to harvest
Time to spread our wings
and fly beyond infinity
Into the future.
God's word certainly come to pass. With RM350mil, anyone can built a 5000 seats hall and many more buildings. But PG fail to hint God's words. Furthermore with his corruption for more money for himself and family, the apparent price of CCC will continue to soar.
But the real problem is not the building of CCC, it is the ong hidden but now exposed greed of PG. It is this that God hates...PG arrogant, selfishness, greed, fake pastor, hypocrisy and worldly attitudes. The mess of CCC is only there so that others who have eyes to see, will see the real wolves in PG and the spineless asso. pastors under him. God expose them not only to testify against them, but also to enlighten the sheep of these wolves in sheep clothing in CC that hide for many years.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at May 18, 2012 11:46 PM
Why is SP & family, and even his APs are still not been reported to authorities for corruption and mismanaging of members funds? They & their staff only looked after themselves first by making sure they have a comfort life with big salaries that comes with extra ordinary perks & benefits taken from the hard earned money contributed by members. This is pure GREED. Many members do not even enjoy such perks & benefits from their companies they worked & yet here they are contributing to them to enjoy such benefits. Its just not right!!.
As workers for God, they should lived modest lives especially when their lifelyhood comes from money contributed by members. Money could be wisely saved for more use of God's work. But they served themselves first, matters & work relating to God comes secondary. And they called themselves 'servants and workers of God'. WHAT A SHAME!!.
CCC has a 5,000 seating capacity. It's much too small to sit all calvarites going by the information found on the net.
While surfing the net, an article in citynews (by City Harvest Church) on the cgi held in Singapore 2010 says:
"Tan Sri (Dr) Prince Guneratnam, senior pastor of the 7.000-strong Calvary Church in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and vice-president of the World assemblies of God was .........".
When meeting other christian leaders, does PG gives an impression that CC is a megachurch with more than 5,000 worshippers? Your guess is as good as mine!
It's time to bring awareness.
Bersihkan Calvary church. Is this the time to print T-shirt and wear on Sunday Service? Let those who unaware of the corruption of PG be now informed. Tell them now before more of their money get cheated by Tan Sri Gluttony.
What??? CC is 7,000-strong! It is obvious that someone from CC must had fed the wrong and misleading information to the writer of this article.
Who were the APs that were at the conference? RY, the salesman for PG was there. Who else?
CC has only 1246 members (VM plus AM) and some regular attendees. So about 2,000 all-in. What a joke - this figure is jacked-up 300%. Anyway, as a 2,000-strong church, CC can be listed as a megachurch. Not too bad, eh?
In support of Anony 20th May, 7.19pm...'Bersihkan Calvary Church'. Yes, print T-shirts, wear them on Sunday services to get those unawares curious enough to check them out. In fact also print out leaflets to hand out to them or leave them on the windscreens of their cars. I am sure this will definitely have some benefit in creating awareness. I hope some will take up courage to start this. There is nothing to fear when our consicience do not convict us as we know we are doing something spiritually right in the name of our Lord.
BLURRED VISION, WRONG FACTS
We wonder why and how come the article printed by City Harvest Church misquoted actual current membership size of cc. We also urge cc leadership to investigate in detail the identity of culprit(s) who dare to provide such grossly wrong EXAGGERATED INFORMATION stating cc membership size being 7,000 instead totalling only 1,246 in the said City Harvest article.
What is the Head of Communication Dept doing ? Sleeping on the job ?
Otherwise, how can the cc leadership be NOT AWARE about its own congregation size which should number at 1,246 members (VM + AM)? plus it is very common practice for the Editors to double check with its source before printing their particular articles.
So how did the error happen ?
We hope the cc leadership immediately contact the editorial chief and publisher of the article to correct the gross mistake with an amendment.
By the way, judging by the size of attendance (consistently numbering in hundreds only) in the various events (regular Sunday services, Easter Sunday service, EGM, comparatively poorer response for church camp, poor response for Carnival tickets, F & B stall still available, etc) organized by the leadership, we cannot help thinking even the figure of 1,246 may no longer be true, as the congregation steadily decreases its support, attendance and respect.
This crucial factor magnifies the cc leadership's Herculean task of securing extra money ("more than RM100,000.00 monthly" - revised from "RM7,000.00") just to service the interests from the bank loans.
Perhaps the number 7,000 may be "conveniently" substituted from RM7,000 monthly outstanding payment to mean 7,000 congregation size ?????
Very blurred vision .... by the leadership ????!!!!! O M G What a big joke ! Ha ha ha !
By anonymous dated May 20, 2012 8:05 PM
What??? CC is 7,000-strong! It is obvious that someone from CC must had fed the wrong and misleading information to the writer of this article.
...............................................
I just burst out laughing aloud when I read the contents of the above blogger.If the truth be told,the deception has been going on for a long time now at CC- but only now the sheep are waking up now.
Although the tell tale signs of deception are there,it is difficult to penetrate the dark clouds because firstly,SP is an expert at throwing dust into the sheep's eyes,and secondly he is surrounded by old faithfuls who are determined to cover up for him.(It happens in all religious organizations).
In addition,the Pastoral staff- especially that SP's dog, RY -a TOP Salesman,selling people the idea that CCC is a "landmark" church- and how proud we should be to belong to that "landmark" church!! So give...give...please give..and give.....dont ask questions...just give...obey now and ask why later...please,give....give...its a landmark church...give ...give...please...please..we need...100K a month now....please give...give...What a professional beggar.
I suspect this deception is not limited to CC but concerns the wider AOG Reverends.Hiding behind various REV.titles and armed with a Bible and elevating the pulpit in the church arrangements- their influence is awesome.They can even axe 400 and...guess what....get away with it!!!
And what a nice explanation--" They dont share our church vision anymore...." Oh..is that so??(More dust into our eyes)
I urge all those remainign at CC...if you must attend CC-- leave your wallets at home.
GOD ANOINTS HIS MINISTERS TO BE PREACHERS---NOT TO BE BEGGARS!!
CC CHURCH MUST HAVE A SIGNBOARD OUTSIDE THE CHURCH
BEWARE:THE SALESMAN PREACHING TODAY
I have sometimes wondered where this madness and craving to build their own church buildings came from at such cost. Maybe its their desire to be in "control" and do their own thing.The world is a harsh place and everyone needs their own private space.Even pastors dont get along with other Pastors. Maybe they want to make a statement about themselves.My family has migrated to a much smaller church and we just feel so relieved.The pastor spends much time in the coffee shop,or in the food stalls but thats okay with us.He doesen't desire to build a landmark church.
While surfing the net, an article in citynews (by City Harvest Church) on the cgi held in Singapore 2010 says:
"Tan Sri (Dr) Prince Guneratnam, senior pastor of the 7.000-strong Calvary Church in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and vice-president of the World assemblies of God was .........".
.....................................
hahahahaha'''heheheh''''hohoho....ngahahahaha
READ MY LIPS (IF YOU CAN) !
Once again, Peegee01 the master of deception is at his best form, playing games while causing confusion with wrongly fed facts and figures.
This time it is the quiz of selection between 7,000 and 1,246 being the so called congregation size of the church.
Earlier, he publicly declared we (the church) need not touch a single sen of the bank loan. Grammatically true, it was NOT a single sen.
If this were true about the church being financially strong, then why need to borrow loans amounting RM millions from the banks ?
However, factually wrong, the figure was revised to RM 7,000.00 monthly, to service the bank interest alone. Then, came the shocking announcement that the amount needed is now more than RM100,000.00 monthly. And this announcement was delivered with a smile by SK.
Likewise, PeeGee01 gave the church the assurance that none of the bungalows would be sold. Then a reversal of decision about urgently holding an EGM to vote in favour of selling the five bungalows. Allegedly he was heard saying, these bungalows serve no purpose. Wonder he had the same thought when he ex communicated the innocent 400 plus church members ?
Then come another sweetener news, we have not receive any notice from the banks about payments due ....
By now we the dumb sheep should instinctively dig into any foxholes or dive underground caves for the next bombshell news of impending doom.
Seriously speaking, can this type of church leadership be categorized by God as being His Annointed Ones ?
Would the path lead by God's Annointed be like a series of heart stopping and andrenaline pumping roller coaster rides, with ups and downs, left and right swings, double and triple loops ?
Every so often, the great march forward masterminded by the rogue leader was stumped by various obstacles along the way, which he tried to clear using his own comparatively "limited human capacity".
So on, and on and on ... Perhaps Moses had an easier task, he had Aaron by his side.
QUALITY NOT QUANTITY
Perhaps you overlooked the fact that the QUALITY of your church congregation is far more important factor than the QUANTITY (numbers).
What's the point of having a 7,000 size congregation if high majority are pew warmers ?
What good is it if you only have attention for the filthy rich members, but no time to care for the less fortunate among your sheep ? Before we joined, we already heard rumours of cc being a rich man's church. Even non believers knew this fact - imagine that ! The leaders seem to forget not everyone in the congregation is filthy rich, not many can afford activities like golfing or bowling. Registering for church camp, ususally outstation venues) would cost thousands RM for an average family of five. Contributors for mish mash must donate NEW unused items. All rich people qualify... what about others ?
Referring to the back cover of Calvary News May Issue, Raymond Yong is heading the Social Concern & Hospitality Dept. Does that include public relations? If yes, then RY is guilty of wrong information (highly exaggerated figure) given to writers outside CC.
Or it this the responsibility of SK or any other? This is not the first time nor the last time that such misleading and erroneous facts are fed to the media!
Some may recall that PG, the master of deception, once said "sometimes, facts are not the truth". I"m still trying to figure out this statement. I've a M.C.E and O.S.C.with a good credit in English. Maybe I need to go for English tuition now!
Btw, the cgi organised by City harvest Church was the 2010 conference. There was no promotion then in cc. It was only after the conference that those in the service knew about it when the salesman RY made a remark about Kong Hee. Yet cc promoted the 2011 cgi that was held in Seoul. Cannot understand the thinking in cc.
To those who think the lie of 7,000 Members in 2010 is ludicrous,
just hear this: Prior to 2010 it was PRINTED in CC's very own Diary- Planner (which they sell) for many years that it has over 10,000 Members!!!
Now, one ought to glad they have 'voluntarily' "adjusted" it downwards.
It can be said PG is a Magician of numbers and figures: Money & Attendance--all make-believe stuff to look good and feel good to impress & lure people.
PGs, all his Pastors & BOD are very good at MANIPULATION and putting-up smoke screens. Just consider what have been done to the Accounts of various Ministries, Expenses, Mission's Budgets allocation, and of course the *costs of CCC. *( which btw in in one of AOG's World Conference website, was stated as USD100 MILLION back in 2008/9)!
PGs, all his Pastors & BOD are very good at MANIPULATION and putting-up smoke screens.
...for many years that it has over 10,000 Members!!!
................................
HAHAHAHAHA....HOHOHOH...HEHEHEHEH....SP AND GANG HAVE TAKEN CC FOR A MERRY RIDE... AND IF ANYONE ASKS QUESTIONS...BEHOLD....HE WILL THROW MORE DUST INTO THE SHEEPS EYES.HE IS A SLIPPERY EEL.
Had lunch with a fellow Christian from another church the other day. They are also engaging in a building project. Guess what?
The pressure on the members by the senior pastor/pastors to give, give and give is also relentless - every chance they have, especially on Sundays and any other meetings, the emphasis is to get the members to give!
But wait - there's more. Apparently the leaders are now calling on members to take out their savings and lend it to the church for 7 years, of course interest-free. Learning from Calvary, I advised my friend that what the church is doing is against the laws of the country. At least at Calvary, consent was sought and obtained from BNM/Ministry of Finance. I wonder whether this particular church did this?
What else? This church is also asking members openly to sell their "bigger" houses and move into smaller ones so that money can be obtained to be given to the church! Well, at least Calvary has not done this.
More? Yes! The church is also calling for members to donate all the jewellry which they are not using to the church!
And they send out letters to remind those who have made pledges to pay up - even before the due dates.
And of course, those who are not giving, giving and giving are made to feel they are somehow inferior or less spiritual.
And I thought Calvary was already at the low. Sigh!
CC'S STATUS TODAY
Its plainly evident that CC has been converted from a House of worshippers into a den of lying thieves and robbers.This is due to the fact that the leaders have dragged the Church into a maddening debt.And since they are not secular business people or traders on the stock exchange- they are engaged in corrupt and devious practices to fleece the sheep.Thats he only thing they know.Use a Bible to pressure or frighten the sheep into giving more money.
To all Christians who have an AOG Rev.for a pastor- learn the lesson well from CC's episode or you have a repeat performance in your own church as well.Every AOG Pastor has the potential to turn into what CC's leadership has come today.A delusional madman.
An anointed leader is descended into thievery,exaggerated figures as to the actual membership,stubborness,self will,cover-ups and stupidity.
This is a mournful situation.The Pastoral staffs integrity is in question as to whether they are still fit to lead a congregation for God.
First thing to do is to boot out SP and that AOG Rev.Salesman RY.A fitting title indeed!!!Its a shameful way to conduct oneself within a church.
However, factually wrong, the figure was revised to RM 7,000.00 monthly, to service the bank interest alone. Then, came the shocking announcement that the amount needed is now more than RM100,000.00 monthly. And this announcement was delivered with a smile by SK.
.....................................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
There is a reason why one blogger has described SK as a Jellyfish/.He has no spiritual backbone. If he has any strength in him- he would tell off SP for dragging him into one lie after lie.That "smiling while lying" is a statement by itself.
STAND FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS
I like what CT is doing and what it stands for as well as what the numerous bloggers have said in this forum.
They are doing exactly what Isaiah 62:1 says: “For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent; for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet, till her vindication shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch.”
How can one keep silent and remain quiet when we see the lies, the deceptions, corrupted deeds that are being done in CC and/or other AOG churches by its present leaders.
Keep it going until we see righteousness shines out like the dawn.
To All CC's VM ( Voting Members):
At the AGM this evening Friday 25 May 2012,
Please Vote. You decide either "for' or 'against' to the Resolutions tabled,
But PLEASE, for God's sake Do NOT "ABSTAIN".
To "Abstain" is tantamount to being a person without conviction!
And being irresponsible by not exercising the right given to you.
Why bother to attend the AGM, if you not only do not dare to speak-up, but worst, not to vote!
To "abstain" when you actually 'disapprove'/disagree' in your heart and mind, then you are without conscience. ( and grieve the Holy Spirit)
I pray that no VM will be intimated, but to vote courageously.
But you know how it will be done. We have been there before. "Those against, please stand." How many dare to stand in disagreement?
But PLEASE, for God's sake Do NOT "ABSTAIN".
.............................................
My opinion on the above sentiment by Blogger on May 25, 2012 1:41 AM
With all due respects to the above blogger,I wish to disagree on this point.I think its allright to abstain.In my mind,those who abstain have already a doubtful mind.This is in itself a sign of spiritual growth.Syabas!!So those who previously,blindly voted in favour of CC,are now restraining. This will indeed cause frustration to the leadership.Praise God.There is a growing awareness among the sheep now.
I have doubts about presurring those who dont want to vote either way- to take a stand.Of course,the most important issues will not be voted on. I suggest the leftover sheep at CC propose to consider the following issues in their agenda:-
1. Does CC still need SP around?
2. Has SP cleared his name in reference to the allegations against him?
3. How long does he intend to stay on at CC?
4. How much money did he make throughout his tenure at CC?
5.He needs to explain the absence of Pam and Rev.Jerry Chow(Jerry flew out by night,and Pam disappeared hastily through the back door--WHY?? CC members have a right to know)
6. Just how much is the Pastoral staff getting paid? Must be itemised and pasted on the church notice Board.Its the sheeps money.(They are not entitled to make lofty statements like"When you give the money,dont tell us what to do with it!!" Wow!!!What accountability!!!
7.The 100 K a month interest came like a jolt out of the blue.SP needs to explain this to the church.
8.A new clause needs to be inserted into the Calvary Church Constitution-"NO LYING BEHIND THE PULPIT-PLEASE"
9.ALL CC Pastors must take the following oath "I DO SOLEMNLY AFFIRM BEFORE CALVARY CHURCH THAT I WILL TELL THE TRUTH,THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH FROM THE CHURCH PULPIT."
10.All Staff in leadership positions be made to sign a solemn DECLARATION "I DO RENOUNCE SATAN AND ALL HIS WORKS(and refuse to participate in dishonesty even though those suggestions may come from superiors)
The 6th Columnist
Apparently the leaders are now calling on members to take out their savings and lend it to the church for 7 years, of course interest-free.
.............................................
Can anyone out there give specific details about the above alleged money appeal? When was this appeal made?Who made it? What was the exact statement used?Has anyone got it on their camera phones?? If we have all the above info'then we have enough substance to lodge a Police Report.I don't care how lofty his Religious title is- the AOG is not above the law.With all their titles and Bible wavings- they must also obey the law.
Our Goverment has a practice of arresting some high ranking guy just when the elections are around the corner.(to show their commitment(sic!!)by raking in high ranking bad hats) Maybe this time they will grab a church character who has stepped clearly stepped out of line.I see the end is coming for SP and supporting crooks.
Hold your Breath.
STULTUS STULTUS STULTUS !
Idiotic leaders
of the unholy temple,
Your hour has arrived,
Evil priests,
time to show off your stupidity,
Remove your veneer of holiness,
Let us see your real faces,
Your dark hideous side,
Ugliness abound,
In your futile attempts,
To confound the truth seekers
at tonight's AGM.
Purity sacrificed,
Insanity reigned,
Innocence mocked
Logic disfigured.
What dirty tricks
will you conjure tonight ?
What torture you prepared ?
Behind your cloak of secrecy
Work you spell over the sheep
Confuse us
with lies and half truths
trap us with your never ending
web of sins.
BUT
The day shall come
When God's Truth shines
destroying darkness forever.
Stultus, do not mock God.
Maybe the AOG denomination SHOULD make it compulsory for its ordained ministers to sign some sort of paper expressly demanding that the church pulpit must not be used for lying,fraud, MISLEADING and DISHONEST statements.
The AOG system seems to see other church problems as their "own inside problem".But when a pastor from a smaller church gets into problem-then they immediately take out the cane and strip him of his Rev.status.
But they cannot handle SP and gang- because he is a big fish.And has a Tan Sri Crown on his head besides the Dr.Rev title.
His ability to subtly charm the sheep with his gifted eloquence and his ministry exposure makes him even more dangerous.No doubt he can talk and manuevor his way out of any situation.When cornered- he takes out the axe...
and his shield...the Church Constitution and the sheeps stupidity.When sued in Court-he sends his personal AOG Rev.donkeys.
These Sundays I would rather take my family for Bah Kut Teh or just play golf.We know what this Sunday is going to be like...some Bible verses .. and then...give...give...we need 100K a month...give...please...give..(borrowed from another blogger)
We just dont want ot hear this anymore.Anyway many of our friends have been axed and we see no attempts by any of the pastoral staff to bring them back.
Such a show of indifference after wounding them?If they were really Gods shepherd's worth their cloth the pastors would have sought them out.For them,its not necessary. After all - they have the power and have titles.And they will never step down because the church is their vineyard and source of livelihood.
WE AS A FAMILY HAVE DECIDED THAT OUR GENERATION WILL NOT BE STEPPING INTO ANOTHER AOG CHURCH.SAYONARA.
SP and crew have been milking the Golden Cow for their high flying lifestyles but now the Golden Cow has fallen sick.For CC to have healing someone must takle a brave stand against this sick man and show him the door.Definitely SP needs psychiatric treatment. Period.
There is no more democracy in CC. Under the rule of the rule of the spiritual dictator, PG, democracy in CC is dead.
On Friday during the AGM, when a member put up his hand to indicate he was not "in favour" of a motion, the bouncer/gestapo RY (the PR man, not the salesman) made a beeline to this member. After few words, RY made hand gestures to PG - he waved "all right" and gave the thumb's up sign.
During one of the EGMs last year (the one where Ps Susan became a female bouncer to escort Lisa out), two female members gave a "not in favour" sign. Then RY, the supersalesman turned bouncer/gestapo, immdeiately approached these two ladies. This came from the grapevine: These two ladies are sisters. Their names are no longer in the membership list neither VM nor AM. Hence not surprised, there are no longer in CC. That is what PG meant when he said "salvation, then stagnation".
If you are courageous to speak to the two RYs about these incidents on what had transpired whatever they say, take it with a pinch of salt because what comes out of their mouths will be half-truths. Whatever ways they use to try to justify their actions is not acceptable. But a clear indication of the dictatorial actions of PG.
There is no need to elaborate further. Put on your thinking caps and with discernment form your own conclusion.
Like the saying goes " hit them where it hurts most, hit their pockets". Now in CC it must be "Keep the TOTT" up! He had mentioned that CCC will be US100mil. True! It is already RM250mil. Keep your money for bak kut teh.
WHat you said about the brother who raised his hand is not true. I was sitting very nearby, and saw and heard everything. The brother was in favor of the motion. He didn't put his hand down fast enough when the chairman moved on to ask who were not in favor. he didn't hear as he was talking to his wife. He quickly confirmed to RY that he was in favor. There was no bullying. Please verify your facts before posting on this blog. We want to tell the truth, not spread rumors.
Why was there a need for RY to make a beeline for the brother who supposedly raised his hand in error? The action by RY was instantaneous. To those who were not in the immediate vicinity, this appears to be purely intimidation!
Then, the very least RY could have done was to explain to the members present that it was a genuine error on the concerned member's part.
Did you notice that many APs were stationed all over the santuary?
How about the two sisters. Period.
To Anony May 26, 7.44pm... You seemed to know everything about truth. What is truth? It does not matter and not of importance whether the brother raises his hand in favour or against the motion. The question here is about whether truth, transparency and accountabiiity had been practised by the church leaders? There seemed to be irregularities & mismanaging of church funds, members money including yours which they took advantage for their comfort living. Is it not the right for a member like sister Liza to be given a chance to speak and let others hear what she had to say? But she was abruptly and injustly stopped by SP and ordered out. This is bullying. Isn't this an abuse of power of subjecting & controlling others to their unquestioned authority. What about the sacking of some 400 members simultaneously. Are you saying God instructed SP and his pastors to axed them!!. They engaged a freemason who deliberately designed CCC resembling a Phoaroah's tomb and with a satanic logo and yet they see no wrong in it. Would you want to worship in such a place they called a "house of god"? They showed no concern of members financial welfare and kept asking them for money in everyway possible even asking them for loans and even dare to twist bible verses to achieve their aims. Are all these right?
So you tell me, what is truth? Or are you saying all the above are rumours. This is not about supporting whose side you want to be, SP and his pastors or TTG. Its all about whether the righteousness of God are established in HIs house. Are His sheep, the flock being well cared for and spiritually nourished. Have they been honest and practised truth,transparency, good governance and accountability.
My friend followed God not men.
Do not forget Guynes wrote in an open letter that there is nothing wrong in having a freemason designing CCC. Coming from Guynes, hah! Anyway, he was rewarded with US10,000.
Remember Ong Sek Liang's statement of the year at the cornerstone ceremony "I have no respect for people who may be doing the right thing but in a wrong way." Why did he say that? He is brown nosing PG! Ong SL is the chairman of the Host Committee for the PWF Conference that PG will hold at CCC in 2013. Got it?
CC pastors you all have commited a terrible sin in the sight of God. You have built CCC which you said is house of god in a design that is similar to a Cobra's head, an ancient Egyptian god and a half pyramid which is a symbol of the anti-christ orgainisation freemasonry aloof on the building. Yet you all embrace them. Do you know that anything that is evil & satanic is an enemy of God. God will judge you. WARNING, ITS A TERRIBLE THING TO FALL UNDER THE WRATH OF GOD!! BEWARE!!
Are you going to continue washing your hands away from this guilt like Pontius Pilate by saying its not your intention, after all its nothing wrong, just a building.
KNOW A PERSON FROM HIS FRIENDS
Take a leaf from PeeGee01 personal advice to congregation ... To know a person well, find out what sort of friends he has ! So check out what sort of people he hangs around or admires as role models! Check out all the past CT blog comments about his friends, his family, colleagues, associates, acquaintances, followers, admirers etc, Make a point to remember what they said and did.. esp to the dumb sheep and others.
You get the whole picture.
Compare it with Jesus's lifestyle as a testimony of humility, lovingkindness and truth. No lies, ho half truths, no deception, no confusion, no U-turns in decision making, no constant begging for money from Jesus. Jesus has Pure Love for mankind. Jesus is the tower of strength. Jesus commands respect from his all friends and enemies. Jesus opens doors, inviting people in. The pretenders close doors, and practise secrecy. See the big differences in the leadership.
Its regrettable that there are still Christians attending CC.Maybe they need to be bitten twice.After observing RY's (SP's Salesman)demeanor during the recent meeting,I have lost all respect for him.This sense of intimidation on church members-who gave that to him? Its not satan- its SP working from the shadows.
When you have a strong willed fallen pastor- who claims it is a vision from god(the location for CCC changed a few times).. remember the following statement??
god showed me this land in Damansara in a vision [back in the 90's]what happened to that vision?
and then the following statement last year?- Plans may change BUT vision does not change!!!
and then the home where the elderly can be cared for- what a load of bullshit!! It was just a smoke screen to milk more $$$ from the sheep.
These so called AOG Rev.pastors have a seared conscience.The church is kind of a playground for them to throw their weight around.Not forgetting the money element.
I think SP and gang have lost all sense of shame! I just did not realize that these mens skins were that thick!!
DISTANT OBSERVER
SP IS DEFINITELY A FALSE PROPHET EXTRAORDINAIRE. HIS PASTORS LOOKED UP TO HIM LIKE A SUPREME LEADER & WOULD ANSWER & OBEY HIS CALL WITHOUT QUESTION. SO ARE THE GOOD FOR NOTHING DEACONS. THEY TOGETHER WITH THE FALSE SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE & FOLLOW.
ISN'T THIS 'CULT WORSHIP'.
I passed by Jalan Gasing today and noticed the car park was full.My friend said it was the AOG's Annual General meeting.I asked him whether they will be discussing the Calvary fiasco and call in SP for some kind of enquiry or discipline.
My friend commented:I don't think they will be wasting their time on that.These Rev's may be doing the same fleecing in their own church.Did you notice their cars. Middle and upper range cars- no kancils or 1.3 Protons.Bunch of slippery snakes!!!Anyway who among them got the guts to confront SP and gang ? It will never happen!!
ME: Well,SP and gang has just shown them a clear example of they can do within their own churches.More members-more $$$ yeah!!
Rev.Cheen! Cheen!! Cheen!!! Dont bother about accoutability. Just consider the church as a family business-...........
REFERING TO ANNOY. MAY 30,12.42 ON 'A MESSAGE TO SP FROM SOME AOG PASTORS.' NOT ONLY SP SHOULD STEP DOWN, THE APs AS WELL AS ALL CC PASTORS ARE JUST AS GUILITY & NOT FIT TO SERVE THE LORD FOR THEY TOO HAD BEEN A PARTY IN SUPPORTING & COMMITING THE UNRIGHTEOUS & UNHOLY ACTS OF SP.
HOW SHAMEFUL & DISGRACED ARE THEY ALL.
Hi, I am just being made aware of this website. If everything said is true, it's all very serious stuff indeed and may I suggest that more people also be made aware of all these matters by using the power of the social media, Facebook etc, etc.
This site alone is not sufficient unless people know the link!
I think we have a social responsibilty to spread this out even more.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at May 31, 2012 2:52 PM
I was rather surprised to read the comment of some AOG Pastors voicing out against SP.I believe these are the "Mow Meng" Pastors within the AOG system who pastor small churches and who dont have the means to drive CRVs and who dont have the courage to speak out against SP within the AOG system. Most likely they don't have the guts to axe 400.
Anyway the pastors whote wrote it are much appreciated.It is certainly a little ray of light compared to the mindset of "indifference and apathy" from the other AOG wolves who bully the sheep.
..............................................
Any self respecting man would have stepped down a long time ago.It appears that SP has even been able to induce Dr.Guynes into his con game.SP needs to be complimented in this area.No doubt- SP is a slippery snake difficult to grasp. Anyone who goes near him is drawn into his Pentecostal Crap.(so far-no exceptions)
I was rather surprised when Dr.Gunes came to SP's rescue by announcing that "The fact that CCC is designed by a Freemason is of no real consequence." (Do you suppose that the US10,000 had something to do with it? Of course,not!!The Dr.must have said it because he loves CC so much)Maybe the DR.does not realize that SP has again thrown more dust into his eyes.
If these hypocrites really mean what they say,they when CCC is completed, they must put up a plaque stating that CCC was designed by a Freemason.No point having a shining bronze plate stating that "This Church was dedicated to the Glory of God by the Great Dr.Rev. So ..& So.. Tell the whole truth - besides that very plaque- let there be another plaque saying a Freemason designed CCC to the glory of God..
The current CC episode is proof positive that AOG pastors are not credible nor honest people,but are Hurtful,self willed and obstinate.If not for their grand titles pre-fixed before their names and the gift of the gap-they are no better than any other fake bomoh peddlar working the streets.The Malays describe it as-"silat mata"- throwing dust into the crowds eyes.
SP should do the right thing- pack up and leave.
THE CAVEMEN
PG is a sly man. He uses the congregation to raise funds which he gives to others to gain favours - e.g. quite some time ago, he asked the congregation to give to King Carlos of Portugal to set up a HIV hospital and at one time, he asked the congregation to give for a teaching hospital in the US. CC should have used the money collected during Faith Promise. But no, get more money from the congregation, meanwhile give money to Communication Min. and CLM. Finally in 2011, Communication Min. "donated" more than RM760k to CCC. What a smart way to manipulate the members money for him to fulfil his ego seeking ambitions.
PG is rather well-known in the AOG international arena after "donating" money to various organisations mainly in the US (what he has contributed locally is pittance against what he has given overseas) and now he is the chairman of PWF. He wants the world to remember him as the builder of the freemason designed monument CCC and holding the PWF 2013 conference in CCC.
The Superintendent of AOG Malaysia, Ong Sek Liang is a brown noser, assisting him in organising the conference as the chairman of the Host Committee.
It is clearly "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" where PG and Ong SL is concerned. PG gave Ong SL the honour to give a message at the cornerstone ceremony. In return Ong SL said "I have no respect for people who may be doing the right thing but in a wrong way." It is an indirect reference to the people who are fighting for truth, transparency and good governance.
If you ask the question why AOG Malaysia is not taking any action either to solve the problem in cc or to take action against PG, the answer is written on the wall.
Can anyone out here please explain what is "brown nosing?" Not that I am an Indian and carry around a brown nose- I am highly curious as what the real meaning is.Thanks and God bless.
I passed by Jalan Gasing again and this time we stopped to read the banner.It read 'LEADING CHANGE- SAVING SOULS"[Annual Council Meeting)
I think those AOG reverends must be joking or sick. They should limit their aspirations to the saving souls part.Drop that "Leading Change". We don't think you have got the guts for that.
A PERSONAL MESSAGE TO AOG'S REV'S
At CC there is a problem with the leadership which has affected many Christians. Have you done anything to change anything? The look on your face has already answered that question.
Bye.
To Anonymous, June 1, 2:41pm.
Just type the keyword - meaning "brown nose" in google and you will have a mountain of explanations/meaning.
Anyway, here are a few definitions/meaning of brown-nose:
1. Thesauus: flatter with the intention of
getting something.
2. Cambridge Dictionaries Online: to try too
to please someone, especially someone in a
position of authority, in a way that other
people find unpleasant.
3. usingenglish.com: when someone tries to make
themselves popular with somebody, usually
in a position of authority, especially by
flattering them, they are brown-nosing.
4. the freedictionary.com: to curry favor with
in an obsequious manner.
There you are. Got it?
One of the reason why AOG pastors continue to support PG is because they want to tumpang glamour from him. They have no shame in associate with PG, but rather fear if they oppose him; especially when the opposition of TTG is still minority compare to the entire Christian community in Malaysia. It is the hardcore followers of PG and the faithful supporters of AOG that continue to delay solution due to their ignorance. Greater awareness is required, so that more people will know PG's corruption, and subsequently, the majority will influence the pastors and diminish PG's support.
TOTT has did just to its limit. PG's hardcore supporters will continue to give no matter what. It's time for greater awareness.
YOu see, PG loves money, and TOTT attack where his idol (money) is. But the Mammon style pastor also loves fame. It is bringing greater awareness that will attack this 2nd limb of Mammon. Attack in PG's finance and fame, the very things that PG chase after.
Read from the website news which some of you may come across that a "Pentecostal" Pastor by the name of Mark Wolford had used a rattlesnake in his sermon to prove his faith in God, was bitten by the snake and died. Its unscriptural & a false teaching to test your 'faith' in such kind of manner to mislead the congregation on the Word of God. This is another example what these 'pentecostal' pastors are capable of doing, totally lacked of any spiritual discernment like CC pastors. All kinds of scandals involving these 'pentecostal' ministers are aplenty. WHY do they behave in such a manner & capable of committing these acts of spiritual unrighteousness? As I had said before that I had always held to my belief that "Pentecostalism" is never from God, but originated from some evil forces. The spirit behind them is not from God, thats why these pastors are unable to receive the true spirit of God, but are instead filled with a counterfeit spirit of satan which is deceiving them and causing them to commit all these scandals and unholy acts of spiritual unrighteousness. The unspiritual acts of these pentecostal CC pastors will never stop, they will continue one after another.
Please note :
The administrators of CT DO NOT share the views on Pentecostalism as expressed in the above Comment.
We believe in the power of the Holy Spirit who empowers Christians to do mighty exploits for God's Glory.
As with all the gifts that God gives to us, there will be some who will misuse God's gift to pursue their own personal goals and for their personal glory.
The above Comment should serve as a reminder of what a Pastor can become if he is not constantly seeking after God. It should also serve to remind us Christians, to know the Word of God for ourselves and to pray for the Holy Spirit's discernment to know what is from God and what is not from God.
Have a blessed day.
Anomy June 13, 9.13am to 'Calvary Today'.
I already knew that CT will not share my views on Pentecostalism. I would rather reserve myself and not elaborate or express any further on why the 'spirit' behind Pentecostalism is not from God. Pentecostalism is a mixed with truth & errors(false doctrines). If you would check with various discernment ministries you would find 'pentecostalism' is highly controversial. I mean if its truly from God, how then can it be so controversial to men. One thing is for sure, the Holy Spirit of God is a gentleman and a spirit of peace & order not confusion. The Bible tells us not to believe every spirit but to test with scripture, the Word of God if they are true or false. It is my hope that some of you would be willing to check on this & search for more information into the origin of Pentecostalism and their doctrines. The many scandals and the spiritual sins involving with the Pentecostal ministers of the AOG preachers would surely indicate that something are just not right with pentecostalism they practised. If they are truly being filled with the true Spirit of God, which the Lord called it the Spirit of Truth then it would surely lead them to all the truth of God. But this is just not happening with them.
It is 'inner man spirit' in me that testify and confirmed within me that pentecostalism is simply not from God and I broke free from it and left Calvary church some 7 yrs ago.
The many scandals and the spiritual sins involving with the Pentecostal ministers of the AOG preachers would surely indicate that something are just not right with pentecostalism they practised
Anomy June 13, 9.13am to 'Calvary Today'.
................................................A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
Many Christians tend to think that the NT church was perfect and everything has gone wrong ever since.Just glance at 1st and 2nd Corinthians- divisions,immorality(1 Cor 5-a man has his fathers wife)getting drunk during Holy Communion and suing each other in Court(1 Cor 6)
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Contrary to what the AOG Rev's preach today,the NT church was far from perfect.They had problems from the very beginning.
The day of Pentecost has gone down in church history because a glorious thing happened-the descending of the Blessed Holy Spirit-"the promise of the Father"
The believer is saved and filled by Gods Spirit but he still has feet of clay. "We have this treasure in earthen vessels( 2 Cor 4)
Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is,in my flesh.I can will what is right, but I cannot do it.For I do not do the good I want,but the evil I do not want is what I do.
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But the AOG system has problems because they are lovers of titles,seek lucrative connections,are lovers of money and some are plain lazy and others arrogant.many are lost within the system too.But a few of them do serve humbly-like my own pastor.Its blessed to come under his influence and ministry.The church hold him in very high reverence.
Once upon a time I was at CC.Today the atmosphere at CC is one of guilt,spiritual bondage,and endless manipulations.SP is fallen and the situation has got from bad to worse.
Recently I visited CC.Indeed it is the truth.RY -is now an AOG Salesman peddling his ware about a "just imagine- belonging to a landmark church!!" Personally I do not want my family to be part of a landmark church- because to maintain that church is going to cost a lot of money- and they will continue with their shameless sales tactics and harass the sheep.Its not going to stop.
2 Cor 2:17
For we are not peddlers of God’s word like so many;but in Christ we speak as persons of sincerity,as persons sent from God and standing in his presence
THE ABOVE CANNOT BE SAID OF MANY AOG REVERENDS TODAY.FROM WHAT I KNOW,MANY OF THEM ASPIRE TO DRIVE PREMIUM CARS,MOVE INTO BIGGER HOMES,GET MORE MONEY,GET A HIGHER STATUS AND SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS.THE ONLY WAY FOR THEM TO GET THE ABOVE IS TO BUILD A BIGGER CHURCH THAT CAN BRING IN THE MONEY$$$.THIS IDEA EXISTS IN THEIR MINDS ALTHOUGH THEY WILL NEVER ADMIT IT.
This is how AOG Rev UNDERSTANDS "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you.Matt6:33
Pray before submitting yourselves to any Pastor.Its dangerous to come under a spiritually diseased Rev.
I agree with the above blogger.Many of these AOG Rev's are lost within the system-most of them with blank look on their faces.They can preach and they can pour poison into your ears-if you are not careful.
There are Anointed AOG rev's and there are also hirelings among them.The real ones are busy building up their sheep while the bad ones sit around teh tarik stalls and spread their gossip, or are busy axing others from the church. Choose your Pastors carefully.Not every Pastor is born again although the majority of them can talk well and are successful in raising large amount of monies.
My previous pastor spends so much time with the youth- most of them young ladies- of course.He claims that he is already married and there is no cause of concern. But whenever other men in the church fellowship with the youth- this pastor seems agigated.Surely something is simmering beneath the surface.
Oh My dearest Lord Jesus- Its already June!!! Grace, Mercy and Peace to all believers out here. May you be blessed in all your endeavors.Let the voices here continue to be heard!! Adios Sayonara!!!
To those who were axed from CC- dont take it too personally. Indeed it must have been painful- the sense of betrayal,the breaking of fellowship,the ingraitude shown by pastors and the subsequent apathy and indifferene shown by the whole AOG reverends.Its a bitter lesson- so learn the lesson well and never forget it.
Throght this 1 episode- we have learnt many things.Relationships can be broken off, ministries can he halted,sheep can be abused and really nothing and nobody will look into it.
The only answer we get is "Forgive and forget-loh!!!"
THANKS FOR THE MANY LESSONS.(But I suspect the whole AOG have learnt many lessons as well.One church we stepped into recently were exceptionally humble in welcoming us-they knew we were from CC) But we made it clear that we were only visiting and will not be submitting to under any AOG ministry no matter how godly and humble they appear to be.We learnt our lesson.
HAS TTG LOST? IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOT HEADING ANYWHERE ALTHOUGH WE HAVE DONE SO MANY THINGS!!IS SP UNSEATABLE?
SINKING SHIP...
By divine appointment (we believe not by coincidence), the guest speaker from Jordan (also church camp speaker), spoke about on "What to do in a sinking ship with a sleeping Jesus ?"
However, with due respect, we wish to point out certain "minor changes" needed to be added to the situations described by the guest speaker to portray "reality checks" in respect of the circumstances affecting cc.
Firstly, we believe Jesus Christ is NOT on abord the sinking ship SS (Sinking Ship)CC. Secondly, CCC is not in God's will.
"For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it—" Luke 14:28
New King James Version (NKJV)
Dear calvarites, please flee this madness (or from this mad man!)!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today at June 7, 2012 5:00 AM
Quoting the question posted by Anonymous,June 6, 2012 6:09 PM :
"HAS TTG LOST? IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOT HEADING ANYWHERE ALTHOUGH WE HAVE DONE SO MANY THINGS!!IS SP UNSEATABLE?"
The entire cause of the TTG have never been about winning. It's about setting things right in Calvary Church. It is about putting in place a system of Governance and a fair and balanced Constitution for the future generations and which will stand the test of time.
It is also not the intention of the TTG to remove SP as they strongly believe that PG should remain as the SP of CC to sort out the financial mess that he has gotten the Church into with the CCC project.
It is PG's sole responsibility to carry this financial burden and to clear all the debts incurred, in otherwise, until the CCC is fully paid for.
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