It is official. SP does not recognize the first seven years of our history.
In the commemorative book published in 2002 to celebrate his 30 year ministry in Calvary Church, on the last two pages is the "History of Calvary Church (AOG) Kuala Lumpur" and it starts from 1968. Here is the scanned page.
In the commemorative book published in 2002 to celebrate his 30 year ministry in Calvary Church, on the last two pages is the "History of Calvary Church (AOG) Kuala Lumpur" and it starts from 1968. Here is the scanned page.
(To view the scan clearly, click on the image to enlarge)
And on page 2, "Prince and Petrina Guneratnam accepted the pastorate of Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur in November 1972. Calvary Church was barely 4 years old, having only moved into her own building at No.2, Jalan Damansara Endah in Damansara Heights, Kuala Lumpur in 1968 with a congregation of 70 adults. Pastor was only 27 years old at the time and was the first Malaysian to pastor Calvary Church."
As far as SP is concerned the first seven years do not exist or is unimportant and is not part of our history.
But to say that he intended the Calvary 40th anniversary celebration to be a celebration of his 40th year in ministry is probably not correct.
On page 9, "Prince Guneratnam and Petrina Giaw married on December 2, 1966, the day after he graduated with a Diploma in Biblical Studies from the Bible Institute of Malaya. Together, the young couple laboured to pioneer and establish the Glad Tidings Assembly in Klang in 1967."
This means that he has been in ministry for 41 years and not 40.
WHM
16 October 2008
LET US RECAP AND RE-READ SOME LATEST COMMENTS RELATED TO THIS TOPIC.
I'm 47 NOT 40 said...
Don't laugh at others lest you also laugh at yourself. What a BIG BIG JOKE! SP poked fun at AG Singapore on their birthday when he himself can't count...or is it deliberate???? CC is 47 years old as a congregation (SP has always taught us that a church is NOT a building, but a fellowship of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ), yet he's hoodwinking us (although many of us are obviously smarter in counting than him) to celebrate only 40 years (building age) instead of 47 (fellowship age).We need to uncover and reveal more LIES AND 1/2 TRUTHS.Please DON'T laugh at others when you youself don't know how to count!
October 14, 2008 8:25 AM
And on page 2, "Prince and Petrina Guneratnam accepted the pastorate of Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur in November 1972. Calvary Church was barely 4 years old, having only moved into her own building at No.2, Jalan Damansara Endah in Damansara Heights, Kuala Lumpur in 1968 with a congregation of 70 adults. Pastor was only 27 years old at the time and was the first Malaysian to pastor Calvary Church."
As far as SP is concerned the first seven years do not exist or is unimportant and is not part of our history.
But to say that he intended the Calvary 40th anniversary celebration to be a celebration of his 40th year in ministry is probably not correct.
On page 9, "Prince Guneratnam and Petrina Giaw married on December 2, 1966, the day after he graduated with a Diploma in Biblical Studies from the Bible Institute of Malaya. Together, the young couple laboured to pioneer and establish the Glad Tidings Assembly in Klang in 1967."
This means that he has been in ministry for 41 years and not 40.
WHM
16 October 2008
LET US RECAP AND RE-READ SOME LATEST COMMENTS RELATED TO THIS TOPIC.
I'm 47 NOT 40 said...
Don't laugh at others lest you also laugh at yourself. What a BIG BIG JOKE! SP poked fun at AG Singapore on their birthday when he himself can't count...or is it deliberate???? CC is 47 years old as a congregation (SP has always taught us that a church is NOT a building, but a fellowship of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ), yet he's hoodwinking us (although many of us are obviously smarter in counting than him) to celebrate only 40 years (building age) instead of 47 (fellowship age).We need to uncover and reveal more LIES AND 1/2 TRUTHS.Please DON'T laugh at others when you youself don't know how to count!
October 14, 2008 8:25 AM
Dawn of new era said...
I believe SP's boo-boo is NOT his doing. I'm convinced that the Holy Spirit has confounded him to use the Singapore AG's illustration to poke fun at himself and to show to the world that SP's true colour.Hallelujah. God is mightly and He has used His Spirit to reveal SP's action. TT members, you will all be vindicated, not by your actions but by the Holy Spirit Himself. This is the the dawn of a new era. We will trust Him.
October 14, 2008 8:33 AM
I believe SP's boo-boo is NOT his doing. I'm convinced that the Holy Spirit has confounded him to use the Singapore AG's illustration to poke fun at himself and to show to the world that SP's true colour.Hallelujah. God is mightly and He has used His Spirit to reveal SP's action. TT members, you will all be vindicated, not by your actions but by the Holy Spirit Himself. This is the the dawn of a new era. We will trust Him.
October 14, 2008 8:33 AM
God Deserves ALL the Glory said...
Give God ALL THE GLORY!!! Let's NOT ROB Him of 7 years of His glory? CC is, I repeat, 47 years old. To those who still maintain it's a trivial issue - whether CC is 47 or 40 it does not matter - I solemnly appeal to you that IT DOES MATTER. It's not about the age, rather it's really really about GIVING GOD ALL THE GLORY, not only part of it.
Give God ALL THE GLORY!!! Let's NOT ROB Him of 7 years of His glory? CC is, I repeat, 47 years old. To those who still maintain it's a trivial issue - whether CC is 47 or 40 it does not matter - I solemnly appeal to you that IT DOES MATTER. It's not about the age, rather it's really really about GIVING GOD ALL THE GLORY, not only part of it.
God showed His faithfulness to the pioneers of CC. Remember, SP & SAP are NOT pioneers lest you still think they are, although all of us thank God for their labour in building upon the foundation laid by our pioneering brethren. There are many who have laboured for the Lord in pioneering CC. Let God have all His Glory for their labour of love.
Personally, as a long-time member of CC, I'm really saddened to see recent developments in CC. I first attended CC in 1982 when I was a student in UM. My wife and I were married in CC and my 2 children attended CC when they were babies and subsequently were baptised in CC. All these years, our family have served faithfully in CC. We love this church and we long to see the FULL Glory of God restored in this great church of God.
SP, I appeal to you. Do the right thing. Give God ALL the Glory, NOT just part of it. He really deserves it ALL. This is the cry of my heart, and my prayer for you and our church. To those of you who are attending the Thanksgiving Dinner, my sincere appeal to you is to also thank God for the 7 lost years. Show your gratitude to Him. To God be the Glory.
October 14, 2008 8:57 AM
October 14, 2008 8:57 AM
3 beginnings... said...
It just dawn on me after reading about ROBBING GOD OF 7 YEARS GLORY.
It just dawn on me after reading about ROBBING GOD OF 7 YEARS GLORY.
God created the world in 7 DAYS and then, walla, we have human kind on earth for His Glory. Gen 1:1, "In the beginning, God created..."
God used 7 YEARS to bring about Calvary Church Damansara Heights. In 1961, God started a little fellowship of english speaking believers in Jalan Sayor....
However, it looks like someone planned to change Calvary history to read, "CALVARY CHURCH was dedicated to the glory of God on 11 February 1968 through the efforts of dedicated missionaries. Rev. Tan Sri (Dr) Prince and Puan Sri (Dr) Petrina Guneratnam was the first Malaysian couple to pastor the Church."
At a glance, SP & SAP, sounds like the missionaries who started Calvary Church. So this was a planned agenda all along. He has been slowly planting this thought in unsuspecting members/readers minds. So we are really robbing God of his beginning glory.
October 14, 2008 6:05 PM
October 14, 2008 6:05 PM
Anonymous said...
A history lesson from someone who move over from Jalan Sayor to the present Calvary Church at Damansara Heights.
A history lesson from someone who move over from Jalan Sayor to the present Calvary Church at Damansara Heights.
It was our missionary Pastor Jim Jones who challenged and initiated us to purchase land in DH though we were only a small young congregation. He motivated us to believe in God, strived to raise funds (not throwing expensive dinners) but by selling kueh, biscuits etc as small time traders, we even sewed neckties, wash cars etc.
On his part, he roped in Gene Martin from USA to raise funds for us. Pastor Jones and his family of 4 moved to the back of our church to save the rental he gets from his home church, so that we can have some extra funds. We only built what we needed because Pastor Jones did not want to burden his young congregation of about 70 people who moved from Jalan Sayor. Truly God used Pastor Jones to His Glory to affirm if TRULY THE VISION IS FROM GOD, THE LORD WILL BRING IT TO PASS. We move in to our present Church DEBT FREE!!!
By cutting 7 years of history is cruel to our missionaries who never have it so good then compared to what our SP and his family enjoys!!! It was Pastor Jones who invited the Guneratnams to come to preach to us one evening in Calvary Church and then asked for us to vote whether or not we want them to take over when he left!!!! We gave them a chance - they were small time preachers in Klang - rather humble at that time - we gave them a chance. Think they have forgotten their roots, they prospered in Calvary, got world recognition because Calvary Church is their platform. Are they appreciative of what we give them? From what we learnt, it seems not - they choose to keep our offerings for the less fortunate for themselves.
Maybe they need to recall Jesus teaching LAY NOT FOR YOURSELF TREASURES ON EARTH!!! CCC is way beyond our head - if you read what I have written you will be able to decide for yourself whether it is a vision of the Lord or SP's personal vision.When the CCC plans were announced, he just introduced Ken Yeang and slapped it down to our throat. He could have discussed with us before giving to a freemason - yes he knew because I know for sure someone told him.old time believer
October 14, 2008 10:49 PM
October 14, 2008 10:49 PM
Be Grateful to CC Sowers said...
Dear "Old Believer" who is still young at heart (you're our Caleb who still soldiers on for our Lord)
Dear "Old Believer" who is still young at heart (you're our Caleb who still soldiers on for our Lord)
Yes, I agree totally with you that cutting 7 years of CC history is VERY cruel to our missionaries such as Pastor Jones who never had it so good then compared to what our SP and his family enjoy now. SP, please give credit where it's due. Don't hoard it for yourself as it's never meant to be yours in the first place.Others sowed but you harvested. Give credit to the sowers too. It's NOT RIGHT and it's certainly a DETESTABLE thing to do. In fact it STINKS.
October 14, 2008 11:04 PM
October 14, 2008 11:04 PM
26 Years in CC said...
Hi "Old Believer"I thank God for you for your small but very significant part in the Kingdom of God.
Hi "Old Believer"I thank God for you for your small but very significant part in the Kingdom of God.
I can sense the hurt in you for what SP has done and is still doing, in robbing the 7 years of God's glory in and through the lives of our pioneering brethren.My brother, take heart for God will surely take His right place in CC.Trust in our Lord.
October 14, 2008 11:12 PM
October 14, 2008 11:12 PM
Oldie said...
Yah, I am one of those who were there in Calvary Church for the evening service when Pastor G walked into the church with his wife and two small kids or toddlers.I was also one of them who raised my hand and agreed to him being our church pastor.
October 14, 2008 11:18 PM
Yah, I am one of those who were there in Calvary Church for the evening service when Pastor G walked into the church with his wife and two small kids or toddlers.I was also one of them who raised my hand and agreed to him being our church pastor.
October 14, 2008 11:18 PM
Blood, Sweat and Tears said...
It's indeed very naive for those who still think that CC is 40 years old as a church does not spring up just like that. Where did the $$$ come from? What about the congregation? And what about the vision in the first place?There's much BLOOD, SWEAT and TEARS put into the sowing process. Even Paul our great apostle did not take all the credit. He saluted those who sowed for him to reap.
October 14, 2008 11:19 PM
It's indeed very naive for those who still think that CC is 40 years old as a church does not spring up just like that. Where did the $$$ come from? What about the congregation? And what about the vision in the first place?There's much BLOOD, SWEAT and TEARS put into the sowing process. Even Paul our great apostle did not take all the credit. He saluted those who sowed for him to reap.
October 14, 2008 11:19 PM
another oldie said...
Our missionary pastors, I hold dear to the fact that our missionary pastors & their wives love us very very much. When I was having my baby I lost a lot of blood and the hospital did not have my blood group - Sis Jones came to the hospital personally and donated blood for me. I have a fine daughter and I am still alive and well. I am very grateful and for this reason I support those messages from the Jalan Sayor immigrants who have great love and respect for the missionary pastors who are really our shepherd in every sense.
Our missionary pastors, I hold dear to the fact that our missionary pastors & their wives love us very very much. When I was having my baby I lost a lot of blood and the hospital did not have my blood group - Sis Jones came to the hospital personally and donated blood for me. I have a fine daughter and I am still alive and well. I am very grateful and for this reason I support those messages from the Jalan Sayor immigrants who have great love and respect for the missionary pastors who are really our shepherd in every sense.
There was no division - Pastor was the shepherd, we were the sheep and we were taught fed. One thing I must say they only left because the Malaysian government did not allow any missionaries to hold posts as full time pastors.Regret that some of you, the younger ones have not experienced what I am sharing with you. Yeh, it is good to remember they toiled
1. Pastor Guynes and Sis Guynes are like parents to many of us. They do not have any airs but will be more than happy to join us for meals at side-stalls.
2. Brother Jones and Sis Jones came with their young children; she had a baby when she was serving in Malaysia. They were very sacrificial and they inspired us to buy DH land.
3. Brother Vic Trimmer - he was an interim pastor and remember him with fond memories. Because he was a divorcee, when we came carolling to his home behind the church - in the middle of the night, he gave us AN icecream each. How can we ignore all these good shepherds? They toiled and sweated here without drawing any money from us - they have been all supported from their own church.
another oldie
October 15, 2008 4:52 PM
October 15, 2008 4:52 PM
From The Horses' Mouth said...
Did you hear about the SP special "LOTT" treatment? The one where when SP is not happy with you he will show his disgust by putting his "Legs On The Table". I read about this in another blog, I think it was on Spikeee's blog. It seems this was confirmed by an AP (Associate Pastor) to the TT crew but the AP said that's SP's way of relaxing. Then TT crew said that SP can do the "LOTT" when relaxing in private but SP must put down his legs when someone else comes into the room.The AP answered "the trouble with Asian ...". He was stopped in mid sentence as the TT crew was indignant (i.e. Godly anger) & did not allow AP to finish his sentence. TT crew asked "since when has SP become a Mat Salleh, he is as Asian as you & me.
Did you hear about the SP special "LOTT" treatment? The one where when SP is not happy with you he will show his disgust by putting his "Legs On The Table". I read about this in another blog, I think it was on Spikeee's blog. It seems this was confirmed by an AP (Associate Pastor) to the TT crew but the AP said that's SP's way of relaxing. Then TT crew said that SP can do the "LOTT" when relaxing in private but SP must put down his legs when someone else comes into the room.The AP answered "the trouble with Asian ...". He was stopped in mid sentence as the TT crew was indignant (i.e. Godly anger) & did not allow AP to finish his sentence. TT crew asked "since when has SP become a Mat Salleh, he is as Asian as you & me.
I have worked for 35 years & I have also served under some Mat Sallehs, I thank God that none of my bosses ever did that to me & neither have I ever done that to anyone. I do not want to hear about SP giving the "LOTT" treatment to anybody henceforth". Btw, this exchange of words was witnessed by another AP, a Deacon & another TT crew member. Believe you me that the foregoing is the "Truth & nothing but the whole Truth" because I have also heard this 1st hand "from the horses' mouth" for confirmation. Don't take my word for it, ask around as quite a few APs, CC staff & Calvarites have kena the "LOTT" treatment from SP over the years.
Unfortunately, no one dared to voice this out & thus SP has grown to be the monster that he now is today. May God have mercy on SP.
October 15, 2008 12:52 AM
Unfortunately, no one dared to voice this out & thus SP has grown to be the monster that he now is today. May God have mercy on SP.
October 15, 2008 12:52 AM
Truth Prevails said...
dear '...Horses' mouth' (ahem! please try to keep your names short next time - easier to address, lah!)
dear '...Horses' mouth' (ahem! please try to keep your names short next time - easier to address, lah!)
That info about LOTT was written by Siew Chyuan & posted on Calvary Today, I think! It's all true. I, too got that LOTT treatment. It was his way to demean his leaders, to show us that he doesn't think much of us.
I felt insulted and intimidated by the LOTT treatment! He 's a monster indeed! No manners at all! And mind you, I was a church leader, of the female gender, and yet he did not show the least bit courtesy that gentlemen should show to ladies! SP is no gentleman and neither is he a good shepherd of God's people. He enjoys lording it over God's sheep!
October 15, 2008 9:31 AM
October 15, 2008 9:31 AM
Ex-staff said...
Yes, "from The Horses' Mouth", I too experienced SP's LOTT treatment too when I was serving full-time. Personally speaking, regardless of whether you're Asian or Mat Salleh or whatever nationalities, etc, etc, LOTT is a PRIVATE AFFAIR when you are alone watching TV, listening to music, reading or relaxing, whatever...In private, you can do it in your office, living room, bedroom, toilet (if it's big enough, otherwise you'll get stuck) or any private confines. Please don't offer excuses for him, whoever the AP is. If it's NOT right, IT'S NOT RIGHT! Period.
October 15, 2008 1:11 PM
Another ex-staff said...
Let me distract you from, "why so long?"
Yes, "from The Horses' Mouth", I too experienced SP's LOTT treatment too when I was serving full-time. Personally speaking, regardless of whether you're Asian or Mat Salleh or whatever nationalities, etc, etc, LOTT is a PRIVATE AFFAIR when you are alone watching TV, listening to music, reading or relaxing, whatever...In private, you can do it in your office, living room, bedroom, toilet (if it's big enough, otherwise you'll get stuck) or any private confines. Please don't offer excuses for him, whoever the AP is. If it's NOT right, IT'S NOT RIGHT! Period.
October 15, 2008 1:11 PM
Another ex-staff said...
Let me distract you from, "why so long?"
SP & SAP do not walk the talk in the church office. His children also follow them, don't walk the talk. All church staff is compulsory to attend morning devotions and cannot be late or will be fined (money). 3 times absent, meet SP personally. But his children only attend once (1) a week. Our office policewoman dare not even ask them why. I suppose they meet their punishment everyday by seeing their father everyday.
They also can walk in late for work and no one dare to question them. Their daughter in law can walk out of office any time to take care of her children. SAP will always be seen carrying her grand children in the office.
Other church staff have to take leave to send our children and parents even to see doctor. Some staff who got long medical leave from doctors are asked, "why so long leave?" See, the difference is you don't have a G name.
October 16, 2008 11:07 AM
October 16, 2008 11:07 AM
So Cham said...
"Another ex-staff"
"Another ex-staff"
My sympathies to all the 'so cham' staff of Calvary! A good thing I was wise enough not to take up a full-time staff position with Calvary - my instincts told me that all was not well with Calvary Church many years ago. The scenario in the Calvary office is like a 'cold war' zone.
Not surprising really...when the CEO, his mah chai, & BOD are not walking righteously before God, the door is opened for enemy infiltration, to cause strife, division, unhappiness, ungoldliness, quarrelling, jealousies, injustice, cliques, suspicions, etc. among the staff and their relationships with each other. It's a "dog eat dog" world there, or the Chinese version, "devil beat devil" world in Calvary Church office!
One of the staff who was pregnant thought that she could also ask for 'morning sickness' leave, on compassionate grounds, for a few hours every morning since the CEO's daughter-in-law was granted such liberty, but to her dismay and disappointment, she found out that such privileges are only for those with the surname 'G' tagged on to them! Cronyism rears its ugly head!
October 16, 2008 11:56 AM
October 16, 2008 11:56 AM
Anonymous said...
or rather, "nepotism".
October 16, 2008 12:00 PM
or rather, "nepotism".
October 16, 2008 12:00 PM
Nepotism shows its ugly head said...
Dear ex-staff…like tat pun boleh? I guess nepotism is the unspoken law in CC. If you are a direct family member (and I quote direct as family members of son-in-law or daughter-in-law are not included in this double standards ruling), life is easy and comfortable – flexi hours, higher pay, high positions and you don’t need to follow the normal set of rules.
Dear ex-staff…like tat pun boleh? I guess nepotism is the unspoken law in CC. If you are a direct family member (and I quote direct as family members of son-in-law or daughter-in-law are not included in this double standards ruling), life is easy and comfortable – flexi hours, higher pay, high positions and you don’t need to follow the normal set of rules.
Why the double standards…..if anything, you should have a much higher expectation on your own family members (son, daughter, wife, son-in-law, daughter-in-law) as compared to the other staff. What other staff can’t do or have to do must also be followed by the family members – why the double standards. It’s like CC belongs to the guneratnams and the rest of the staff are all peasants working for this monarchy.
October 16, 2008 12:07 PM
October 16, 2008 12:07 PM
mad said...
i do believe what some of the ex staff claims and had observed as double standard. yes i know it as a fact . any staff involve in ministry has to take leave to be doing ministry work but not the G family. for them everything is church work including going to market and picking up their kids.
i do believe what some of the ex staff claims and had observed as double standard. yes i know it as a fact . any staff involve in ministry has to take leave to be doing ministry work but not the G family. for them everything is church work including going to market and picking up their kids.
SP children and grand children are given the impression that CC belong to them and the rest work there. Even his grand son threaten adults like me.... AL would say i will tell my grand father if he does not get his way. Pastor Susan Tan's saga and she leaving CC was because of his grandchild.
Now about dinner . afters all this talk about those taking part has to pay.The church now has decide to charge RM 50 . and kids RM 25. the church simply don't appreciate the sacraficial of the members. Timothy Ong has 101 reason why the head users were remove. His apology is to justify . Is he a member of UMNO. Actually he is just being consistent . he is constantly indifferent and a story teller. TImothy Ong i suggest you do some soul searching. i dare not do what you do in the corporate world. the different between me and you is you are call to feed his sheep not stumble them. i am just a tent maker.
October 16, 2008 1:21 PM
October 16, 2008 1:21 PM
angry said...
People might say why are we bringing up all this ‘personal’ stuff about sp & his family but I tell u tat it is all interlinked and shows his true self. It all stems from sp being the selfish, ungodly, overly ambitious ceo that he is that resulted in all tat is happening in the church, whether it is money issues or staff unhappiness or nepotism. So again, we are asking now, why hasn’t the person responsible for all this spoken yet? Is it becoz he has no good explanation for all he has done? Speak up I ask of u, sp and be a man.
People might say why are we bringing up all this ‘personal’ stuff about sp & his family but I tell u tat it is all interlinked and shows his true self. It all stems from sp being the selfish, ungodly, overly ambitious ceo that he is that resulted in all tat is happening in the church, whether it is money issues or staff unhappiness or nepotism. So again, we are asking now, why hasn’t the person responsible for all this spoken yet? Is it becoz he has no good explanation for all he has done? Speak up I ask of u, sp and be a man.
Let's be focused said...
Let us all forget about answering this "why so long?" and the new comer "reality check". They are diverting our attention from the ex-staff who have shared the inside stories. They don't want to have more ex-staff writing so they are wasting space here with their merry-go-round. Exactly like what they do at AGMs & EGMs.
Ex-staff, please tell us more and the rest stay focused and be self-controlled. Don't waste blogging space.
October 16, 2008 6:00 PM
Let us all forget about answering this "why so long?" and the new comer "reality check". They are diverting our attention from the ex-staff who have shared the inside stories. They don't want to have more ex-staff writing so they are wasting space here with their merry-go-round. Exactly like what they do at AGMs & EGMs.
Ex-staff, please tell us more and the rest stay focused and be self-controlled. Don't waste blogging space.
October 16, 2008 6:00 PM
Unhappy said...
Yes, I agree with "Let's be focused". We must conserve blogging space by not getting entangled in trivial discourse with the unfocused and detractors.
Yes, I agree with "Let's be focused". We must conserve blogging space by not getting entangled in trivial discourse with the unfocused and detractors.
I'm no ex-staff, but I'm very close to CC staff. My sources tell me that SP sacked all the staff of Calvary Printing Press (only 2 by the way) without following proper labour law (immediate dismissal I heard) and ordered PO to change the locks to the premises just in case they came in to remove the printing machine which is old enough to be on display at our musuem.
By the way, one of them has left CC after SP's shameful act. SP stumbled him. The other one is still hanging on.
October 16, 2008 6:17 PM
October 16, 2008 6:17 PM
On behalf of Acronyms said...
Just read this in another posting. Sounds very logical why sp needs to stash away money for retirement.
Just read this in another posting. Sounds very logical why sp needs to stash away money for retirement.
"SP obviously doesn't walk the talk about one should live in faith. Why does he need to secretly transfer funds of RM 1.9 million from CC to CIM? Is it because he has (as told by SP to BOD) withdrawn his EPF for Junior's house & SP now needs to rebuild his EPF savings?Where is SP's faith? Even if he has diminished his EPF savings (as claimed by him), SP only need to look towards God who is his EPF (Ever Proving Father), as well as ours."
October 16, 2008 8:12 PM
82 comments:
I have heard clarification from the church that the 40th anniversary is counting from the year CC had its own building and that is correct.
Now, all I want to hear from the church is an official announcement/statement and this to be recorded in the history of CC that the church was established in 1961 and 2008 is her 47th anniversary. A good start would be next Wednesday during the dinner. I am quite sure that there will be a souvenir programme of sorts - would such an acknowledgement be made then? I hope so.
reasonable, do you think they would? They should have made it clear with the members a few weeks back, in one of the announcements during service.
I am really speechless! Please make right the wrong.
I really hope so and why not since it is simply stating what the church believes in anyway. In other words by saying that the 40th anniversary is counting from the date CC moved into DH, the church is already acknowledging that CC is more than 40 years old. No harm then stating that it is 47 years is there? This is the opportunity to make things better not worse. I hope and believe the church will do what is right.
Reminds you of our country's 1957/1963 independence day furore, doesn't it?
or perhaps to the Japanese rewriting their history...
aisay, i wasn't from the Jln Sayor era..so i can't even begin to imagine how discouraged and sad the old timers must be since their history in Jln Sayor is erased just like that.
In the official Media Release from Calvary Church when SP received the Tan Sri title, it says that he has been in the ministry for 42 years!!!!
So which is correct?
Looks like all the associate pastors are joining in by preaching here.
Hi ytf,
You not Chinese meh? All this while, I thought you were Chinese lah.
Remember SP's wife is Chinese, you know. So SP must have learnt from SAP that he can add 1 to his 41 years loh.
Aiyoh! If like that how can SP laughed at Singapore AG & their counting, he also do like that wat.
Hm, it's a case of POT calling the Kettle BLACK.
This is taken from the A/G Malaysia Constitution, which might help everyone to understand the regulations governing the discipline of ministers in the A/G...
"The AG Memorandum/Constitution & By-Laws which contains a full 10 pages of guidelines concerning the discipline of Ministers of the Gospel. The Nature and Purposes of Discipline are as follows:
Discipline is an exercise of scriptural authority for which the church is responsible. The aims of the discipline are that God may be honoured, that the purity and welfare of the ministry may be maintained, and that those under discipline may be brought to repentance and restoration.
Discipline is to be administered for the restoration of the minister, while fully providing for the protection of the spiritual welfare of our local assemblies. It is to be redemptive in nature as well as corrective and is to be exercised as under a dispensation of mercy.
What then are the Causes of Disciplinary Action undertaken by the Council?
Violations of Christian principles (1 Tim 3:1-2; Titus 1:6-9), which may give cause for disciplinary action are as follows:
1. Any immoral conduct unbecoming to a minister or indiscretions involving premarital and extramarital relationship, fornication, adultery, homosexuality, pornography and any other sexual perversions and immorality.
2. Any defamation such as open slander and libel.
3. Irresponsible action contributing to church split.
4. A declared open change in doctrinal views concerning Tenets of Faith.
5. A habit of running into debts which brings reproach upon the cause.
6. Embezzlement of funds under trust or breach of trust.
7. Indulgence in drunkenness, drug abuse, smoking and gambling.
8. An arbitrary rejection of district or national counsel or decision.
9. Resorting to violence.
10. Any other serious misconduct. "
I quote from CC commemorative book, on page 2, "Prince and Petrina Guneratnam accepted the pastorate of Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur in November 1972. Calvary Church was barely 4 years old, having only moved into her own building at No.2, Jalan Damansara Endah in Damansara Heights, Kuala Lumpur in 1968 with a congregation of 70 adults."
Yes, it’s officially official. There was indeed a group of 70 adults who moved into DH building known as Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur.
Where did these 70 adults come from? Obviously they did just drop from the sky - which God could have done it if He wanted to - but then I personally know a number of these people and I don’t remember them telling me they actually dropped from the sky.
Where then did these adults come from? Did they actually hear about a group of Christians building a church called Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur, signed up to attend and on the day of the 1st service, they actually turned up and boom, Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur was born with an initial congregation of 70. If there’s the case, we won’t have a dire shortage of pioneering pastors.
Where then did these adults ACTUALLY come from? There's no mystery - the only logical answer to my mind, which SP is trying to make it illogical, is this: THE GROUP OF 70 ARE THE PIONEER MEMBERS FROM JALAN SAYOR WAY BACK IN 1961 WHO FORMED THE INITIAL FELLOWSHIP NOW KNOWN AS CALVARY CHURCH, KUALA LUMPUR.
SP, stop telling HALF TRUTHS. It’s true we moved into CC in DH in the year 1968, but then it’s only half the truth. The other half is explained above. If it’s not the FULL TRUTH, it’s HALF TRUTH. Simple and, according to God’s standard, it’s a SIN. Period.
BOD, please, for God’s sake and glory, rebuke SP for telling half truths. Otherwise, you are a party to it too? Remember your calling as deacons – it’s a serious calling and God will hold you accountable.
Remember, God is not mocked!!!
Hi, how long SP has been in the ministry - 40, 41 or 42? I'm really confused now.
By the way, I'm also confused whether SP was also the missionary who had the vision and pioneered CC.
Can Patrick Wong explain? Or has he gone for voice training?
dear Simpleman
In those days the church was known as "Calvary Assembly" and they were already officially recognised by AG Voice, the official publication of the A/G Malaysia. Give me a moment & I will get some information on this - I have it in my files, somewhere!
On issue of Violations of Christian principles (1 Tim 3:1-2; Titus 1:6-9), I propose they include expand item 7 (Indulgence in drunkenness, drug abuse, smoking and gambling) to also include FLASHING.
What do you all think?
The date is not given but I think it was in 1964 or 1965 that A/G was first published (Volume 1).....
VOLUME 1 NO. 5
M.C. (P) No. 1307
DIVINE HEALING ISSUE
WHY I BELIEVE IN DIVINE HEALING!
Questions and Answers Regarding Divine Healing.
WHY ARE YOU SICK?
Is Divine Healing for us today?
Pictorial Report – Faith Assembly – Singapore
ASSEMBLIES OF GOD VOICE
Is published by the
GENERAL COUNCIL OF THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
OF MALAYSIA
Rev. R.B. Cavaness Jr, General Superintendent
Rev. Siu Wai Pun, Assistant General Superintendent Rev. Donald E. McMurray, Secretary/Treasurer
Rev. Fred Abeyasekera, Committee Member
Rev. David Nyien, Committee Member
Rev. Andrew Yeo, Committee Member
Rev. D.H. Baker, Committee Member
Editor: Rev. R.B. Cavaness Jr.
Translators: Rev. Siu Wai Pun, Rev. Luke C. Koo
Pastor Andrew Cheng, Rev. Oh Beng Khee
Address all communications to:
33-J, Chancery Lane, Singapore 11.
-----------------------------------------------
ASSEMBLY OF GOD CHURCHES
SUNDAY SCHOOL AVERAGES
CHURCHES MAY JUNE September October
Combined Sunday Schools unless marked (E) English (C) Chinese
Singapore Faith Assembly 270 265 251 217
Glad Tidings P.J. (E) 234 197 177 160
Calvary Assembly K.L. (E) 185 163 175 171
Singapore Bethel Assembly 125 171 148 166
K.L. Assembly of God Chinese (C) 140 112 115 113
Singapore Elim Church (E) 119 119 122 114
Singapore Calvary Assembly (E) 85 120 75 54
Singapore Grace Assembly 102 92 95 93
Ipoh, Emmanuel Assembly of God (E) 88 73 77 78
Singapore Elim Chapel (E) 82 68 90 73
K.L. Ulu Klang BIM (E) 62 70 71 68
K.L. Emmanuel BIM 60 70 50 50
Raub Assembly of God (E) 65 60 50 31
Ipoh First Assembly (C) 54 68 118 121
K.L. Full Gospel BIM 50 62
Butterworth Bagan Jermal 56 50 44 103
Penang First Assembly of God (E) 55 46 41 32
Seremban Assembly of God BIM (E) 60 40 32 25
Port Swettenham Assembly BIM (E) 37 35 50 48
Penang Assembly Chapel (C) 30 34 28 30
Klang Glad Tidings Chapel BIM (E) 35 28 - -
Malacca Assembly of God (E) 28 29 38 26
Singapore Evangel Assembly 20 30 20 20
Singapore, Tengah Chapel 21 27 14 29
Butterworth Ecclesia Assembly (E) 32 16 48 34
Kajang First Assembly (E) 22 19
K.L. First Assembly Tamil 24 15 18 15
Penang Cantonese Assembly (C) 19 5 12 14
Butterworth Raja Uda 25 16 21 15
Sungai Petani Assembly (E) 12 13 14 17
K.L. Ipoh Road BIM 40 40
Seremban Zion Assembly (C) 25 39
Taiping Assembly of God (E) 24 34
Kajang Assembly (E) 31 23
Singapore Calvary Assembly (C) - -
K.L. Jin Jang Full Gospel - -
A/G VOICE ISSUE Volume I No. 5 Volume I No. 5 Volume II No. 1 Volume II No. 1
(sorry....it was in 'table form') Calvary Church was called Calvary Assembly, KL (E. They had another Calvary Assembly in Singapore. In those days, A/G includes the Singapore churches which were the earlier ones pioneered.
In the above list, posted earlier, Calvary Assembly, KL (E) is THIRD on the list - they are listed in the order of highest recorded number of Sunday School students (children ministry) to the lowest. This shows that Calvary Church was already growing well way back in 1964/1965
There's more......
VOLUME II NO. 3
PENTECOSTAL ISSUE
Rev. Siu Wai Pun, General Superintendent Rev. Donald E. McMurray, Secretary/Treasurer
Rev. Fred Abeyasekera, Committee Member
Rev. David Nyien, Committee Member
Rev. Andrew Yeo, Committee Member
Rev. D.H. Baker, Committee Member
Editor: Rev. R.B. Cavaness Jr.
Translators: Rev. Siu Wai Pun, Rev. Luke C. Koo
Pastor Andrew Cheng, Rev. Oh Beng Khee
Address all communications to:
33-J, Chancery Lane, Singapore 11.
____________________________________________
KLANG GLAD TIDINGS CHAPEL DEDICATED
Glad Tidings Chapel was opened in the Eng Ann Estate of Klang on the 29th of January. Miss Petrina Giaw graduated from Bible Institute of Malaysia on the 4th of December and then moved to Klang to take charge of this new Assembly. Rev. D.H. Baker, Principal of the bible Institute of Malaysia officiated at the dedication. Thirty-nine of those present at the service were from the city of Klang itself and there was a good response to the altar call at the close of this special service.
___________________
Rev. Siu Wai Pun was Gen. Supt. for the Term 1967/1968, a one year term only
This gives us the dating for this article on Sis. Petrina's graduation & posting to Klang
I am mystified why they didn't think of putting the year in A/G Voice in those days!
General Supts. of A/G Malaysia....
1. Delmar R. Guynes 1957-1958
2. Steven L. Nolin 1958 - 1960
3. R.B. Cavaness 1960 - 1961
4. David Hugh Baker 1962 - 1963
5. Timothy Siu Wai Pun (Acting) Nov. 1963 - Apr. 1964 (Timothy Siu was a missionary from Hongkong)
6. R.B. Cavaness 1964 - 1965
7. Timothy Siu Wai Pun (Acting) Jan. 1966 - Apr. 1966
8. Donald E. Mcmurray 1966 - 1967
9. Timothy Siu Wai Pun 1967 - 1968
10. Chris D. Thomas 1968 - 1969 (C.D. Thomas was a missionary from India)
11. Timothy Siu Wai Pun (Acting) 1970 - July 1971
12. C.D. Thomas 1972 - 1973
13. Prince Guneratnam 1974 - 2000 (Our first local Gen. Supt., leading the AG movement for a record 26 years)
14. Vincent Leoh 2000 - 2008
15. Ong Sek Leang 2008 -
To preachers?, maybe it’s not the associate pastors kua…maybe its just some wannabe preachers, you know-la..some people are just cheong hei by nature..
I pity Ps Jones and his wife as well as the 70 pioneers who was from Jln Sayor. No wonder Ps Jones was seldom invited to CC to speak…he’s not recognized as the founding father!
Dear Ah Ji Ah Cho,
From my sources, I heard that Ps. Jones had backslided - he committed adultery (I think he was in Australia when it happened), so his credentials had been removed). Not sure whether he has repented and restored back into ministry!
However, I dare not say for sure that this is true. It needs to be verified. I hope it's not true, though.
However, I've had the pleasure of sitting in his b/study classes on Wednesdays, way back in the '70s when he was invited back to Calvary to be the speaker at our Sunday service, once in a way.
More information, which I'm sure will interest everybody. This shows when Sis. Petrina received her Licensed Credentials and Prince G. receiving his Exhorter credentials. The Gen. Supt that year was McMurray (check list above to verify year)....
VOLUME II NO. 4
General Council Pictorial Report
Christian Life Issue
Rev. Donald E. McMurray, General Superintendent Rev. Fred Abeyasekera, Secretary/Treasurer
Rev. James Jones, Committee Member
Rev. Joseph Yong, Committee Member
Rev. D.H. Baker, Committee Member
Editor: Rev. R.D. Hammersla
Translators: Rev. Siu Wai Pun, Rev. Luke C. Koo
Pastor Andrew Cheng, Rev. Oh Beng Kee
Address all communications to:
P.O. BOX 141, PETALING JAYA, SELANGOR
______________________________________________
GENERAL COUNCIL PICTORIAL REPORT
The Assemblies of God of Malaysia held its 9th Annual General Council in Petaling Jaya from April 12th to 14th. Rev. Maynard Ketcham, Field Secretary for the Assemblies of God in the Far East was the featured speaker.
One of the highlights of the council was the ordination service on the night of the 14th.
Rev. Ketcham spoke that evening using 2 Samuel 24:24 as his text. The following is a list of those receiving ministerial credentials in that service.
Ordained: Alan Leong, I.V. Lazarus, Stephen Cheah.
Licensed: Petrina Giaw, Evelyn David, Johnny Lim, Isaiah Heng.
Exhorters: Francis Cheong, Chew Chee Kim, Florence Chin, Christina Chow, Prince Guneratnam, Leela Samuel, Soon Ai Cheng.
Christian Worker: Peter Chan
Hey Historian,
Praise the Lord for designing you a "rubbish" collector. Now the "rubbish" is so useful information. Anyway, calvarytoday can get a hold of it and scan for us to see?
Thank you, historian, for taking time to educate us. Even the government is talking about introducing HISTORY lessons in our primary schools, wow.
Hi Historian,
Thanks for doing your homework to enlight us, particularly myself.
From your info, it looks like SAP was licensed to preach 1st in 1966/67 while SP was only an Exhorter.
When was SP licensed to preach?
Based on your info, that's why SP is a bit confused whether his ministry actually started in 1966, 1967 or 1968. That explains his confusion over whether he was actually in ministry for 40, 41 or 42 years.
All these conflicting years are somewhat very perplexing and confusing for "Simpleman" like me.
Who knows, 3 years down the road, he may reveal that he has actually served 50 years, and get everyone to celebrate his golden anniversary of ministry.
Well, in SP's case, we must be prepared for everything, because anything can happen.
Hi Appreciative,
Yeah, maybe we should incorporate history, I mean, church history, particularly CC history in either SCG classes or Sunday sermons. In that way, we won't forget our roots, especially for oldies like me, and SP too because he's one year my senior.
17.10.08 Hong Meng & Teh Tarik Group
Thank you for creating the blog to enable us to tell history as it is.
When we built Calvary Church in DH upon the shared vision between Pastor Jim Jones, the 70 odd believers, he handed Calvary Church over to us.
He told us that as Americans, they cannot owe Calvary Church. He gave us 1 share each on par value $1.00 (equivalent to RM1.00 now but RM was not introduced then). We signed a document of ownership which also had a clause that said that we cannot sell or transfer that ownership.
I recall the original 70 could include the active Calvarites like Robert Ng, Walter Ong, Irene Ong, Paul Eng, Melvin Ho, Bernice Ho, Helen Gan, Valerie Chin, Lily Tan, Judy Tan, Sharon Soon and her husband the late Jimmy Wong, Paul Yem, Richard Lee, Sally Lee, Jenny Low, Tony Lee, Linda Lee etc They would have signed that document and
thankfully some of them are still in Calvary Church.
Please ask for a copy of this historical document from the care-takers of Calvary Church. In those days there was no photostating machine and we do not have a copy each.
Earlier before I joined Calvary at Jalan Sayor, I was told there was another document signed by the pioneer Christians who are mainly English educated children of Chinese educated believers from First Assembly Jalan Sayor. I understand that Tony Lee, Richard Lee and Helen Gan were amongst the earliest members. That document should be kept in Calvary Church.
I am writing this because many of us are growing older and some have already gone home to be with the Lord. So while I still have a good memory I owe in to the Lord and present members of Calvary Church the authentic history -from a humble beginning but united...... unlike now.
old time believer
Hello "Another Oldie"
Suggest we include everyone, not just the oldies, lest we also forget our roots too.
These days, it's important to know our HERITAGE. We don't want history to be rewritten as has happened in certain nations (no need to elaborate - very sensitive).
17/10/08 Old time believer
Apologies - typing error on 3rd para, line 1
should be cannot OWN, not owe.
old time beleiver
Dear Oldtimer, oh no! that’s sad sad news abt Ps Jones Hope he has repented and is now back in the ministry…
Dear old-time believer,
I'm not part of the TT group, but as I read your comments, I almost cried knowing that so many had indeed sacrified for CC in the pioneering years.
My prayer is that even if SP DELIBERATELY does not want to aknowledge the group of you, God WILL.
On that glorious day, when we meet Him face to face, our Heavenly Father will surely commend all of you.
What He will say to SP, I leave it to your speculation!
God will not be mocked!
Dear Simpleman,
In those days they were licensed to preach even as an exhorter. This was because of the shortage of full-time workers. The exhorter credentials were also given to laymen who had the call of God upon their lives eventhough they had not been to BIM. So, SP must have started preaching when he was in BIM as a student, with the exhorter credentials. The dating of the year is not very clear, though....the AG VOICE posted above said that McMurray was Gen. Supt, which from the list of Gen. Supt., it was in 1966 - 1967.
Sis. Petrina graduated first (she is one year older than SP) and was SP's senior...
The following shows that in this year, A/G was officially seperated into Singapore branch & Malaysian branch, also the year of Princv G.'s graduation.
VOLUME III NO. 1
“Study To Show Thyself Approved Unto God, A Workman That Needeth Not To Be Ashamed”… II Timothy 2:15
“LEADERSHIP SEMINAR”. MARCH 7TH & 8TH, PETALING JAYA
“READ your BIBLE issue”
GENERAL COUNCILS OF THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD
OF MALAYSIA
Rev. Donald E. McMurray General Superintendent
Rev. Siu Wai Pun Asst. Superintendent
Rev. Fred Abeyasekera Secretary/Treasurer
Rev. James Jones Committee Member
Rev. Joseph Yong Committee Member
Rev. D.H. Baker Committee Member
SINGAPORE
Rev. Steven L. Nolin General Superintendent
Rev. Oh Beng Kee Asst. Superintendent
Rev. Andrew Yeo Secretary/Treasurer
Rev. Vincent Cheo Committee Member
Rev. Lee Seang Lip Committee Member
Editor: Rev. R.D. Hammersla
Translators: Rev. Siu Wai Pun, Rev. Luke C. Koo
Pastor Andrew Cheng, Rev. Oh Beng Kee
Address all communications to:
P.O. BOX 141, PETALING JAYA, SELANGOR.
____________________________________________________
“Silver And Gold Have I None,” Said Peter. “But Such As I Have Give I Thee:”
- Fred G. Abeyasekera
This has been on the lips and lives of nine consecrated souls as they passed through the doors of B.I.M. on Graduation Night, wholly sold out – these “teens and twenties” dedicated to the “High Calling Of God,” with only energy, time, talents, a mind and simple life are now faithfully laboring in different parts of Malaysia and Singapore.
. . . Pastor Edgar W. Suriya, formerly of Bethel Assembly, Singapore, is greeted heartily by the Principal, Rev. D.H. Baker. Bro. Suriya is now pasturing a small Church in the ulus of Pahang – Raub Town.
. . . Pastor Prince Guneratnam (formerly of Taiping Assembly) with his beaming bride to be (formerly of Bethel Assembly Singapore) being greeted by the Malaysian Superintendent, Rev. D.E. McMurray and his wife. . .
We praise God for His greatness to His people in the Town of Malacca . . . The Pastor Sister Norma Farmer, has done a good job and with the help of her Co-Worker and God’s blessings has gathered a substantial number of believers. . .
. . . Rev. Jim Jones, a proud and happy Pastor congratulating Sister Leela S. Samuel on Graduation Night, prior to her departure to her field of labour – Malacca.
Another 1966 graduate, Florence Chin, is serving on the faculty of B.I.M.
dear Appreciative,
You are most welcome.
All this 'rubbish' are actually 'valuable treasure' to the National Archives Dept of the A/G headed by Rev. Lim Yeu Chuen. Many earlier copies of A/G Voice are still missing.
You can always approach Rev. Lim & ask him for permission to browse through what he has already collected over the years. I have this info. because I was one of the many volunteers who had helped him to record a little bit of it. Rev. Lim would appreciate more voluntary help, though, so please feel free to give him a call.
huh..i scored "A" for SEJARAH MALAYSIA in SPM, also cannot find history being altered so easily..
WINSTON CHURCHILL said:
'The Price of Greatness is Responsibility'
May I appeal to Senior Management of Calvary Church and Assemblies of God to help this church to take responsibilty for the whole episode--thank you. If there is any greatness, do take responsibility--this is your scorecard
to all pastors and board of deacons
As a member of CC for 27 years, I feel so angry and hurt that all of you Senior Pastor, All Pastors have deceived me. You are supposed to be my shepherd and leaders. But look at what you have done. You have actually deleted the first seven years of church history. It is just like deleting the memories good and bad ones of a child. How could you do that? You are suppose to be men of God, our God, the God of Truth. I am so angry because you have told me lies. You did not tell me the truth. How can you pastors continue preaching God's Word from the pulpit every Sunday? All the pastors really need to repent and seek God's forgiveness. I sincerely can not believe that all the pastors and deacons have been lying for so many years. Only God knows for how long. And only God knows what other lies have been told from the pulpit.
I remember when I first came to CC, the pulpit was guarded very well. No speaker or preacher will be spared if they do not preach what is God's word. They will be warned and anything that is not from God will be corrected. What happen to sacredness of the pulpit?It is all gone. Now you can preach anything from the pulpit including instilling fear among the people of God. What has CC turn into? Pastors and Board of Deacons of CC, are you so blind?
Dear Angry and Deceived
Do not despair. The rot will certainly stop.God is still on the throne and He still reigns. Men scheme & design, but God bring His will to pass. Be patient, God will make everything beautiful in His time.
God is not mocked
dear angry and deceived,
I share your pain. i wept when reading your post and i feel the sting of betrayal, too.
But let me encourage you, my dear sister/brother. Learn to forgive those who hurt us and betray us. It is surely what God would want us to do. God knows what is happening and He is not pleased, too, so that is why He had raised up the TT group to expose the hidden works of darkness in His church, which He loves. We must learn to cast all our cares upon Him for He cares for us. Don't let this stumble you - keep close to the Lord, dearly beloved.
Hi "sad",
U must be an oldie as u referred to "angry & deceived's" comment as "post".
I too am an oldie but "young at heart". Anyway, I have checked with a teenager & this is what I have learnt .....
1. Calvary Today is a "BLOG",
2. Individual Articles posted by the Administrator is a "POST",
3. Comments by you & me is just a "COMMENT".
So let's all use the right terminology. The Young Ones out there, please correct me if I have been misinformed (never blog before this).
Many thanks to Calvary Today for making us oldie learn new skills & "new" things about SP & CC which were hidden in the closet previously.
Calling all ex-staff & ex-leaders (including pastors), do share with us more of SP's misdeeds. Someone once said "our testimonies will shame the devil" so why don't you do exactly that - testify of SP's misdeeds & shame the devil in SP.
dear young at heart,
You've hit the nail on the head! Tks for teaching me the new lingo of the blogosphere! Suddenly I don't feel so sad anymore!
Hi "sad but NOW smiling",
Am glad that as the Lord bless me, I can share it with u & others to be a blessing.
So calling all ex-staff & ex-leaders (including pastors), if u have been "blessed" by any SP's misdeed do share your "blessings" with us so that others can be encouRAGEd.
YAHOOOO (Young At Heart Oooooo !)
17/10/08
Noted comment that our missionary pastors may have gone astray but at the time they were here, they did their best for us
I was on the CA committee around 1969. Many CA members in their teens and twenties; some pursued further studies, some started work.
We were discouraged that many of our fellow CA's backslided because of the transition from student to young working adults. Some of us wanted to meet with Pastor Jones and he was opened to discuss with us solutions to curb the problem. We were encouraged to learn that the Pastor and church deacons were aware of our pain and will support us by talking to those who have backslided.
An oldie on this blog mentioned that missionary pastors cared and loved us. I can say the same too.
Pastor Jones met with CA leaders to help solve their concern.
You and I have become more aware of the hurts and cries of the truth seekers. The number seem to be growing. DOES SP care or be bothered? He prefers to use our church funds - offerings you and I give to a lawyer and accountant.
Does he believe he need not answer to anything just because he can hide behind bod, lawyer and accountant?
A far cry from the missionary pastors who set aside time to handle the problems of his sheep.
A shepherd cares for his sheep -
and do we need and SP who has no
characteristics of a shepherd but ask his "sheep" to jump into the lake.
ex-CA
First ,i must salute all the oldies and historian for taking effort to keep all these records for so long and now painstakingly allowing the EVDENCE to be published here! Your compassionate heart and your treasured for Calvary church is commendable. But now that you know the 7 years had gone missing, i can definitely feel for you! What about those participants going for the dinner ? Can you still be so ignorant? Dont you want to help to make things Right?
eh? boycott the dinner to make things right? wrong! what can make things right is for the church to acknowledge that CC was "born" in 1961 and so this should be the 47th anniversary - boycotting the dinner is not the answer.
but then,how to make the church acknowledge that they should be celebrating 47 years and not 40 years wor?i'm really out of ideas...
U Say What, I think you are rather naive.
naive? ... let's simply say I am an optimist ...
naive would be assuming a person is a lawyer because s/he used the word "ramifications".
s/he could be a dictionary editor.
oh, irony.
wah..big word, ramification. didn't manage to read that comment though.
so,anyone has any better idea than to boycott the dinner as a statement that it is wrong to celebrate 40 yrs when it is 47 yrs ar? at this moment, i really can't think of any better idea than this one..how?
... how about praying ... also, how about going but talk to people at the dinner that while it is not wrong to celebrate 40 years since we moved to DH (that's why you are there), the correct and more proper celebration should be 47th anniversary and if the church really wanted to do what is proper and pleasing before God, the church should officially (to be recorded in CC's history) acknowledge this and give honour, respect and appreciation to all those who have gone before ..
yes..praying shud always be done no matter wat options r taken abt the dinner.i guess for those of u who really wanna go n talk to people there abt this, can oso. but think most of us rather not go...why go when the whole principle behind it is wrong ma.personally,its against my principle but tat's just my own stand.
To "No more idea".
Why don't one of the leaders invited for the Anniversary Dinner and either can't or do not wish to attend, send in his/her congratulatory message as follows:
Dear members of Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur,
My sincere apologies for not being able to attend your anniversary dinner, as I'm unable to reconcile between the fact that our great fellowship is actually 47 years old but you are celebrating only 40.
For those of you who are unaware, Calvary Church as a fellowship of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ is 47 years old, although the physical structure is 40 years old.
Let's not rob God of 7 additional years of His Glory, of how he enabled committed believers led by Pastor Jones way back in 1961 to launch out in faith to pioneer Calvary Church.
As you rejoice and give thanks to God during the anniversary dinner, my sincere prayer is that you will also thank our Almighty Father for the 7 pioneering years too, and for all those who have laboured in love so that all of you who came after them can have a part in this assembly.
Rejoice in the Lord for His 47 years of faithfulness."
God bless.
Ah Ngau, class of '61.
To : u say what,
I can tell dat u r obviously very indignant (godly anger) dat SP & BOD is robbing God of de 1st 7 years (1st fruits?) to de extent dat u want to go to de dinner to tell ppl dat it's 47 years & NOT 40 years.
Tell u wat, keep your RM 85 by NOT going to de dinner as your presence will allow SP & BOD to count u as one of their supporters who attended de dinner. Instead just go & see SP (if u feel so strong about it) & talk to him; this way at least SP will get to know dat there is more that the TTG dat is fighting for TTG (Truth, Transparency & Governance) in CC.
Best wishes to u & your meeting with SP. Keep us posted of the outcome, please.
ah ngau..i like yr idea.u're like ah beng...clever(eventhough u're not related!).A salute to all the ah ngaus, ah bengs and ah lians out there...don't underestimate them :)
Hi "no more idea",
Not trying to be one up on "ah ngau" BUT I think that the Congratulatory letter will probably just be thrown in the wastepaper basket JUST like how I have heard that SP & BOD just threw the 2 petitions away.
At least for the 7 resolutions, BOD had to show their true colours by NOT tabling them at the EGM & thus, in the process, convince some neutrals that there must be some Truth in what the TTG is fighting for after all. Heard that, at the EGM, God sent more neutrals to the TTG side than to SP's side.
I think I like "not going to dinner's" idea of asking "u say what" to go see SP & tell him off. I feel that this is NOT the TTG's battle it's God's battle" God has raised them & us to stand up for Him & for Truth, Transparency & Governance to be restored at CC. Thus, besides "u say what", I opine that we should all go speak with SP &/or BOD individually &/or collectively so that SP & BOD will come to their senses that it is NOT just the TTG that they are up against & that it is ACTUALLY God that they are up against.
SP, BOD & APs, please be warned that I will be speaking to whosoever that God send into my path tomorrow; you better listen loud & clear to God's words as spoken through my mouth. Amen!
Btw, does anyone know where is "ah lian"? Haven't seen or heard from her for sometime; perhaps, she is quietly digging for more evidence to expose SP.
what abt this idea. everyone TT supporter sign up for dinner, go to dinner with a small cloth banner hidden in your handbag or pocket. Banners can say wat you like. when cue is given, all stand up, take out banner and march around the hall and go outside and stand in the hotel lobby. i get the reporters to be there. wat yo think?
Woa, it'll be a shockalingam to gunaratnam
HAHAHA! I like ss's idea - also, someone should record all this drama on video & post it on the blog!
I was rather busy lately but just minutes ago, I blogged here and couldn't help noticing something from Old-Time Believer's comment, and I quote:
"I recall the original 70 could include the active Calvarites like Robert Ng, Walter Ong, Irene Ong, Paul Eng, Melvin Ho, Bernice Ho, Helen Gan, Valerie Chin, Lily Tan, Judy Tan, Sharon Soon and her husband the late Jimmy Wong, Paul Yem, Richard Lee, Sally Lee, Jenny Low, Tony Lee, Linda Lee etc They would have signed that document and
thankfully some of them are still in Calvary Church.".
Five of the above names mentioned are very significant, not that the others aren't, but more in respect of their "relationship" with SP & PO.
Four of the names are the official in-laws of SP and one is PO's elder brother.
Wow, if SP has no regard and respect at all for the 5 pioneer Calvarites - 4 of them his own in-laws (for the less-informed ones, they are the Lee's) and the other PO's own brother - just imagine what else he's capable of doing.
I suspect that as long as he looks "good" (which is indeed a very subjective virtue, depending on which end of the telescope you're looking from), SP is capable of doing anything, and I mean, anything and everything.
May God have mercy on him.
God is not mocked!
In case you out there have not noticed, why so long? has replied to CT. Interesting development under comments in the 9th Update. You will have to click on "newest" on the top right hand corner to quick jump to comment 200 onwards. No need to scroll down.
No need to thank me. It is my pleasure to be of service. Ha ha ha
Actually mentally very tired.
We all can talk, talk and talk till the cow comes home but the situation is still the same.
All of us all the same. All Talk But No Action.
Dear no immediate action
oh..looks like many readers had opted to take all actions possible.
Someone in these comments column--'why so long'is trying to distract and change TTG's agenda only,hence leave him alone, and move on!
Dear 9 to 5 Window,
There are of course some people trying to confuse us, irritate us, upset us, disrupt our thoughts and do whatever possible to douse the 'passion' in us to cleanse the church.
Lets just forget about them.
We should be doing something? But what?
Maybe God wants all of us to pray and wait upon him?
Or maybe He wants us to carry out some affirmative actions in the near future?
This He has to speak to each one of us.
Do or not, we still have to pray.
Dear Simpleman,
Where have you been? Have you not heard, do you not know,...? The Guneratnams are a law unto themselves.
During the first witchhunt, no face was shown to one of the in-laws - he was removed from his 'serving communion' duties, without a by-your-leave! Then, SP must have had a change of heart later, and sent RY to take the blame for it - RY apologised and said that it was all his own fault and subsequently reinstated back that hurting in-law!!
Yes, we are dealing with a very conniving and vicious 'wolf in sheep's clothing,' who has accumulated quite an impressive string of titles, now attached to his name...just to keep up the image of an important and filthy rich CEO-pastor of Calvary.
Watch out for that wolf!
Thanks Baa-Baa Sheep,
Wow, SP is that vicious, showing no face to an in-law!!! And RY, his errant boy, had to take all the shit. Poor Pastor RY.
If I were the in-law, I would have "one knife, two pieces" (Chinese expression) with SP.
BTW, Baa-Baa Sheep,
Have you lost your shepherd or has he abandoned you???
A prominent calvarite showed me a letter sent to her asking her to attend the 40th anniversary dinner. Can't remember the words ( actually not interested to read, you know)but it has this message. Even if one cannot attend the dinner, one is encouraged to send a CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE for the dinner. So who is one supposed to CONGRATULATE? The CC building or the one who is now in very subtle, unspoken words, claiming to be the builder of CC building?
I also heard they are as usual inviting people from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come or send CONGRATULATORY MESSAGE to (.....?)if cannot attend. Like Chinese saying, "people don't come, present must come."
hmmmmm wonder who is paying for their air-fare? hmmmm no wonder, every time got celebration, so many PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD COME. Free makan, free tinggal, free jalan-jalan. Siapa tak mau.
"Congratulations and Jubilations..."
NOT free, lah! Haven't you heard, there is no such thing as a free lunch, or in this case, free dinner?
Even if free, it'll be because SP has something up his sleeves....too few tables velly, velly bad for his image, loh! So the Church has to pay for all the free dinners out of the Missions funds, leh!
Dear Simpleman,
I am looking for a good shepherd to rescue me from the 'wolf in sheep's clothing'!
I heard they are bringing in people from outreaches to attend to make up the number. Must give face to SP.
All APs and missions staff working very hard. Of course the people from small towns are very happy to come. Dinner at big hotel, got free gifts, coffeetable book and what not!!!
I think SP definitely has something up his sleeves. After expenses for dinner (even if it's Malay food - the one with the pusing-pusing containers in the middle of the table) and misc expenses, I don't think there's much surplus for CCC.
I think SP will ask those present to give special love offering to CCC. If he corners people like that, how to escape. Sure kena pay. Must alert those attending to carry extra cash and cheque book too, or should we?
Maybe, just maybe, SP may get those present to pledge again - maybe Supplementary Leap in Faith.
I really disliked surprises being sprang - happended once too often. On one hand it is always stressed that everything is voluntary and no one is forced to give but on the other hand at the same time, harsh words are used on those who do not give without even knowing the reason(s). Like that very susah-leh!
I really disliked surprises being sprang - happended once too often. On one hand it is always stressed that everything is voluntary and no one is forced to give but on the other hand at the same time, harsh words are used on those who do not give without even knowing the reason(s). Like that very susah-leh!
hi ah beng,
u've got a point too..the letters might be shredded,thrown out,burnt just like our petitions eh.but guess at least it might make their blood boil a bit to know tat we people aren't just gonna sit quietly and let the dictator change history as he pleases! watever they wanna do with the letters is then up to their own conscience..who knows,they might not be able to sleep peacefully at nite as their guilty conscience will be bugging them like nobody's business while the rest of us sleep peacefully.
But your point on going to see and talk to each BOD or pastor personally whenever we bump into them is also good..push the point through loud and clear!
Dear Father God,
I thank You for You have established Calvary Church Kuala Lumpur for a purpose, that we may be Your lighthouse in the midst of a sinful world.
May we always remain true to Your calling. Do not allow any individual to pursue his own agenda, but Lord may Your divine agenda be our focus each day.
Frustrate the plans of men which go against Your purpose on earth.
For Your Glory and Honour. In Christ's name. Amen.
This article I just copied from Calvary Church website. Their highlight for the Dinner is this -
******
DINNER HIGHLIGHTS
A multi-media presentation presenting an overview of God's great works accomplished in and through the church in the past 40 years;
A unique and powerful presentation featuring live testimonies from the Life Groups (LG) and church ministries;
Video & pictorial reports from Calvarites at home and abroad on how God is using them to be a blessing to His Kingdom;
An inspiring challenge to expect God to do greater things especially through our younger generation.
Other information:
Besides a sumptuous meal, participants will receive a special anniversary publication and memento. Children below 13 years old will receive a goody bag each.
Pre-dinner fellowship begins at 7pm at the Foyer and the event will begin punctually at 8pm.
The dinner venue is easily accessible via NPE, LDP, Kesas & Federal Highway.
This Thanksgiving Dinner is not for fund raising and has been specially priced so that all Calvarites & their families can attend.
************
I have a few questions for the BOD and organisers of this event. I'm leaving SP out because he will most likely say, "I did not plan this - the BOD and APs & committee members did that." Don't want to waste time.
1. How come only "God's great works accomplished in and through the church in the past 40 years;". You mean the church has lost the records for the pioneering 7 years. So this is what you mean by always being grateful to God for ALL things. (Thanks for the lesson)
2. Why this is printed on registration form for the dinner? Cheque made payable to 'CALVARY CONVENTION CENTRE BUILDING FUND" On the website is written - "This Thanksgiving Dinner is not for fund raising" So is this dinner for fund raising or not? I see BUILDING FUND on the cheques.
A prayer for Calvary,
It sad to hear so much not so pleasant thing has been said about the church and Its leaders. What ever is happening or is going to happen. I just prayed that God's will be done. I also prayed that the leaders of the church will have the fear of the Lord in their heart and the fear of One man (Sp). that they will hear from God personally and do what God want them to do. all glory to God.
SP and leaders of CC, Please take your responsibilities. Whether if you are right or wrong, you're to take responsibilities that God has called you and placed you in His church, to love, to care and to serve.
You're holding all the blessings that God wants to pour upon CC and even your own personal lives. If you have a relationship with the Father and know His heart for His church then respond to His call to take-up your resposibilities in this situation in CC.
This is not about who's right or wrong. What would Jesus do in this situation?
Also to encourage our young ones who are carrying the cross for our CC to follow suit I'm repeating here
"To restore those seven (7) golden years and to celebrate those founding Calvarites I strongly advocate that those 70 Calvarites wear white (shirts, blouse or dresses) to the dinner.
All Calvarites intending to respect and gave God the FULL GLORY (and not to PG) are strongly encouraged to light a candle or matchstick in silent dedication to these long suffering Calvarites (and those pre-Pastor Guna CC tenure) during the function.
Also to light a clear and direct path for TTG to press forward for their work is righteous and truly Glorifying our Lord Jesus. As an intercessor I'm continuing to exhort this dedicated group seeking TTG and Accountabilty. I pray to the Great Intercessor Our Lord Jesus and the Guidance and Direction of the Holy Spirit in our quest for Truth and for the FULL Glory of Our Almighty GOD."
Has SP gone too far (in his corruption) to turn back? Is this why he had remained adamant and refused to acknowledge his transgressions? Does he not fear the Lord anymore? What if he has committed the unpardonable sin? Why does he not practise what he preached from the pulpit? How can a servant of the Lord make this foolish choice to serve the devil instead? Does he not know that if he does not repent he will end up in the lake of fire one day? And not only him, but he would be bringing with him his wife, his children, his grandchildren, and not to mention the BOD (save one) as well? Why the BOD as well? because they are abetting him in his crime of absconding the Lord's money for his own selfish gain! Has the love of money, glory and fame so blinded him and SAP that they do not care about eternity anymore?
Once upon a time,
A long, long time ago,
Prince G. and his princess, Petrina,
Feared God, and loved Him so;
But now, their love for God
Has grown oh, so very cold,
Loving themselves instead,
In lying they became bold;
Their conscience is thus seared
With a hot iron, the saga unfolds.
Not loving the sheep,
Driving them from the fold,
Loving wealth, glory and fame,
Their eyes on the church's gold.
So Revd. Fred A. is the first local pastor (albeit associate pator) for CC.
So futher embellishments and continual half truths
Yes, Reverend Fred Abeyasekera, ....who was committee member in General Council while SP was still a greenhorn, a BIM student!
So historian is that an outright lie? If so can his titles be stripped for padding his CV?
As CEO in the secular world I will based on the trails of embellishments, half truths and deceits uncovered to-date.
Enuff is enuff. TEHNC.
Well, I guess you can call it 'a half-truth.'
Rev. Fred A. was Associate Pastor to Rev. Jim Jones, and was being groomed to take over the pastorate of Calvary Assembly (i.e. Calvary Church). I don't why he didn't, but later he pioneered his own church. Rev. Fred A. is now ministering in the U.S. Maybe someone can contact him and ask him for the whole story.
oops, sorry. I didn't know Rev. Fred A. was the speaker last Sunday. I attended another church!
God is good to you Historian. CT has downloaded his sermon in their new post - Pioneers...we salute you. You can listen to it while you read the rest of the posts here.
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