In a desperate attempt to seek funds to restart the abandoned Calvary Convention Centre (CCC), Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) once again is turning to the members for advances. This appeal for advances is said to be planned for the Combined Worship Services to be held on Sunday, 4 July 2010 at the Sime Darby Convention Centre, Bukit Kiara.
Although this members’ loan scheme has not been announced to the congregation, the Life Group (LG) leaders have been briefed and they have been instructed to prepare their LG members to give advances to the CCC project. Below is extracted from the Instruction Sheet given to all LG leaders:
For LG Leaders to help prepare LG members
FAQ - Advance to CCC
"Glorify God...Finish His Work!" John 17:4
Give an Advance ...an investment for His Kingdom!
1. Do we have Finance Ministry's approval?
Yes we do. We thank God that the Hon. Minister of Finance,
Malaysia in accordance with powers conferred by subsection
118 {1) of the Banking and Finance Institutions Act 1989
("BAFIA") has made an Exemption Order which enables
Calvary Church Kuala Lumpur to receive, take or accept Short Term
Advances from members of Calvary Church, for the purpose of
completing Phase 1 of the Calvary Convention Center (CCC) in
Bukit Jalil, Kuala Lumpur.
2. So, what if a non-member or a Calvarite who has applied for
membership wants to give?
They can give a contribution (gift) now. And when they become
members in time to come, they can also make an Advance.
Bear in mind that all who desire to give is significant to God.
3. What is an advance?
Giving of interest-free Short Term Advances that would be
repaid within five years after the completion of Phase 1 of CCC.
4. Who can give Advance?
All church members - Voting members, Associate Members,
Junior Members & Inactive Members.
5. Why Advance?
This being one of the main ways of funding for the
CCC would minimize interest charges that may be incurred from obtaining
bank loans. Such savings can be redeployed for other programs
to further the Kingdom of God.
6. Is there a minimum or maximum amount?
No. All amount is acceptable.
7. What is our target?
At least 35 million Ringgit
8. How long is the Advance ?
Members can receive repayment beginning 2012 up till 2015.
There are a few points to note from the above explanations given.
A. It is good to see that the Board of Deacons (BOD) are now complying with the law relating to deposit-taking, which is what such advances are deemed as under BAFIA. The previous program of taking advances from members several years ago flouted the law as it was carried out without approval from Bank Negara.
However, we hope that our BOD had not made any misrepresentation in order to obtain this special approval. It would seem hard to imagine that Bank Negara would approve such taking of advances from members while fully aware that Calvary Church is not an incorporated entity under any Act and cannot be sued as proclaimed by lawyer, KK Wong at our August 2008 EGM.
Allowing the public to be exposed to the risk of losing their money is something Bank Negara will not do, so we hope that they have not been misled in any way. Remember, misrepresentation is PG’s forte (How he misrepresented CIM to NECF). Perhaps, one of the members can check out this approval with Bank Negara.
B. This Advance is taken only from members of the Church and not others. That is why they are emphasizing that those who have applied for membership can give the advances only when they are admitted into membership. You can expect to see the relaxation of requirements for membership especially to the Associate category. In this category they can have your money but you cannot vote or question them at all. It is not clear if the "contribution / gift" given by non-members and those with membership pending approval, will be "converted" automatically to Advances once they become members later.
C. It is interesting to note that even Inactive members are being encouraged to give advances to the church. While these members are NOT allowed to attend AGMs and EGMs, have no voting rights and absolutely have no say in anything, they are encouraged to give advances for the CCC. Most of the Inactive members are part of the 400 members who were stripped of their voting rights not too long ago and now PG has the cheek to ask these very same members to give!
D. Under question 3, the church has defined an Advance as “Giving of interest-free Short Term Advances that would be repaid within five years after the completion of Phase 1 of CCC”. This statement appears to contradict the answer to question 8 where the church says “Members can receive repayment beginning 2012 up till 2015”.
D1. It is not clear when exactly will be the completion date of Phase 1. It also does not spell out what Phase 1 encompasses? Is it the main sanctuary alone or the main sanctuary with the rest of the building in a state of “shell and core”? The danger is that when the church is unable to repay the members when demanded, they can very well respond that Phase 1 is still not completed.
D2. If indeed the members will be repaid “beginning 2012 till 2015”, is the BOD proclaiming that the CCC Phase 1 is now deemed completed, going by the five year tenure mentioned under question 3? (2010 till 2015 = 5 years)
D3. Assuming this is a mathematical error and assuming 2012 is the expected completion date of Phase 1, then 5 years after would be 2017. So technically, members can only be repaid from 2012 to 2017 and not “beginning 2012 till 2015”.
D4. It is also not clear if the members’ advances will be repaid at one go or spread over 5 years. All this confusion and ambiguity are the hallmark of PG and the BOD.
E. All these questions aside, the most important matter to consider is whether the church will be in a position to repay the members’ advances. The obvious answer is no.
E1. If you look into the 2009 Annual report, you will see that to complete Phase 1 (assuming this is the main sanctuary and the rest of the building being shell and core), it will require RM110 million.
E2. The church has estimated cash balance of RM26 million as at 31 December 2009. If they manage to achieve an overall surplus (including building fund) of RM8 million for this year (similar to 2009 which is very unlikely) and a surplus of RM6 million for 2011 (discounted due to dwindling congregation), they will have a total cash balance of RM40 million.
E3. If it successfully receives advances of RM35 million from the members now, the total of RM75 million is insufficient to complete Phase 1. They will need to take a bank loan of RM35 million to complete Phase 1 and this is assuming there are no additional cost as a result of the current stoppage.
E4. For 2009, the offering and tithes collection of RM7.3 million against an overhead expenditure of RM5.3 million resulted in a surplus of only RM2 million (excluding building fund). If this RM2 million yearly surplus is maintained (which is very unlikely), it will take them 30 years to repay the bank with interest calculated at only 5% per annum.
In this scenario, we have assumed that the church will continue to canvass for building fund pledges which obviously will be used foremost to complete Phase 2 with some funds kept aside to maintain the CCC. We estimate that maintenance of CCC will cost about RM4 million per year (using building wear and tear depreciation over 50 years). It will certainly require nothing less of a miracle to be able to repay the members’ advances by 2015 (Ans 8) as promised.
F. If for the above reason or for whatever other reasons your advances cannot be repaid by the church, from whom can you recover the money later on? Of course PG and the deacons have every intention to repay you but sometimes things just do not work out. Even with the best of intentions, there may simply be no money to repay you as shown above. Then what recourse do you have? You cannot sue Calvary Church because it is not a legal body.
You may be able to sue PG and the BOD because they enticed you to give the advances. (Please remember the person doing the presentation on 4 July. He will be the one you would sue first.) They may then use 1Corinthians 6 on you and tell you that you cannot sue another Christian especially if he is your senior pastor and your deacons. You could find yourself in quite a dilemma.
G. If possible, those intending to make advances should attempt to get a written "guarantee" from PG and the Deacons in their personal capacity. This will be of great use if you need to institute any legal suit later on to recover your money. This will also be helpful in the event of your demise, so that your loved ones will be able to claim back your advances with less hassle.
Below are some Basic Questions you need to ask:
1. With the granting of this advance, what will be achieved?
2. Would this funding be enough to complete the whole project?
3. If not, then what stage of the project is to be completed that would be considered as Phase 1? Otherwise they will come back later for more advances.
4. If this RM35 million advances is not enough to finish Phase 1, how much more would be needed?
5. Where are the sources for the additional financing?
6. How much cash does the church already have now?
7. Is this advance scheme meant to replace the standby line of RM35 million from Alliance Bank?
8. What assurance can the members get that their advances will be repaid?
9. How and when would the members’ advances be repaid exactly?
10. How and where are the cash flows to ensure timely repayment of the members’ advances?
11. Is there an alternative source of funding for the members’ advances to be repaid? Any assets that are not charged to the Bank that can be sold?
12. Are they hoping to later persuade or manipulate members to convert the loans into gifts?
13. Who are the members lending to?
a. Is it to Calvary Church which is not a legal entity which cannot be sued?
b. Is it to the AOG Malaysia who is in charge of CC?
c. Is it to PG and the deacons?
14. If the church fails to repay the members’ advances, from whom can the members seek redress?
15. Can PG and/or the Deacons provide any personal guarantee?
16. The CCC project has been badly managed by PG and the Deacons. Are they appointing a professional manager to oversee the project?
17. If not, what assurance are there that the project will not be abandoned mid-way again?
18. Can we still trust them enough to lend them money for this multi-million ringgit project?
19. Are there any outstanding commitments and liabilities owing to Nam Fatt or any other sub-contractor or supplier? If so, how much?
20.. Are there any outstanding commitments and liabilities owing to the architect and the consultants? If so, how much?
21. Can any one of these creditors foreclose on the project or stop the project?
22. Are there any legal suits by any of the persons associated with the project which may arise from the current stoppage?
23. What is the current project cost projection? With the additional RM36 million the construction cost would jump to RM186 million. Is this only Phase 1?
24. If Phase 1 will cost RM186 million, how much will be required to complete Phase 2?
25. What works are classified as Phase 2?
26. Have they appointed a new contractor for the project? Who is the new contractor and has adequate due diligence been done on them?
Some Do’s and Don’t's
1. Do ask PG or the Deacons for answers to the above questions. They must provide satisfactory answers to the above questions. Otherwise you would be going just on so-called faith. We all went on faith for the last few years. Look where it has taken us. Was it real faith in God or manufactured faith engineered by man? We must have faith in God and not man, no matter how clever they can talk. No matter how much we respect them.
2. Do pray and seek God for wisdom in this whole matter. He has given us a mental faculty to think and make wise decisions. On top of it, He has promised that if anyone lacks wisdom, he/she just need to ask and He will grant us wisdom.
3. Do discuss with your spouse before you commit to giving any advance because he/she should have a say in financial matters that affect your family welfare.
4. Do consider all your financial commitments in respect of your house, your family and your children’s education before you give any advance to the church. Remember that in terms of priority, after God, your family comes first before the church. So be wise in your stewardship of God’s monetary blessing on your life.
5. Don’t give any advance if you do not have any surplus funds. If you give any advance, you must be prepared to lose it. If you cannot afford to lose it, don’t give the advance.
6. Don’t borrow or take a loan in order to be able to give an advance to the church. This will be foolish. God will never ask us to give beyond what we can afford or what we have. He certainly do not want us to become burdened with debts. In fact, the Bible discourages us from borrowing although it does not prohibit borrowing.
7. Don’t withdraw or use your EPF money to give an advance to the church. Unless you have plenty to live on for the rest of your life, keep your EPF for your retirement use.
8. Don’t sell your properties and give unless, of course, God specifically ask you to do so.
9. Don’t be lured or persuaded by prosperity gospel. If God blesses you financially, it is because of His faithfulness, mercy and grace and not because you deserve it or because you give or advance some money to the church. Never give with the motive of expecting more blessings from God.
Finally, you will have to settle this in your heart and spirit. Do you truly believe without the slightest of doubt that the CCC as have been presented by PG and the BOD is God’s vision? If you believe so, then support it. If not, then use the money that God has put in your hands to bless the poor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked and minister to millions of lost and dying souls out there. This is the real heartbeat of God.
"Unless the Lord builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;" Psalm 127:1
74 comments:
The "combined" service on 4th of July is not a meeting. It is just going to be announcement that the "Church building must go on, but advances must be made to build God's Kingdom".
We (members of CC) are going to be duped again. The church congregation is going to answer AMEN when SP asks whether they support the CCC.
Of course, even if 80% of worshippers keep quiet, the 20% or even 10% "AMEN" will still be audible and it will made to look like the church, as a whole, has agreed.
Probably SP is looking for an "excuse" or "scapegoat" once again, that if the CCC fails, it is not his fault, but the concgregation, because on the 4th of JULY we said "AMEN" to CCC.
Don't be duped into this SCAM.
It is well planned, because if this is being done in the Sime Darby Convention Centre, ALL is involved.
I know we can't do anything, because we can't even ask any questions. We can only say AMEN! and even if one person says AMEN, it is going to be made to look like the church has said AMEN.
BUT we CAN do something. Listen to your holy spirit, brothers and sisters in Christ. Don't just agree. Don't just agree with whatever the leaders say, especially hypocrites. Listen deeply to the voice of the holy spirit. Pray before attending the service.
MAKE our voices heard! If you do not agree with the CCC vision, it is time to walk the talk and I mean it literally. When the question (continue CC with advanced) pops out, WALK out of the convention centre. This is to send a signal to the leaders of the church. We have no voice, but we can act, and ACTION speaks louder than WORDS. The ACTION is our VOICE!
I know it will be difficult, because you may think that "if i walk out now, i will look like i am being disrespectful to the church and to our Lord". Furthermore, If the pastors find out, I will join the ranks of the 400 members, or my friends will look at me one of a kind.
Brothers and Sisters, did not Jesus do the same thing to the pharisees. Jesus knew the truth and he acted on it, debunking the false teachings of the pharisees. That sacrifice he made caused him to be hated by the jews and eventually to his cruxification.
SO brothers and sisters, if you think that CCC is not from God and you know it's the truth, will you take up the cross?
On 4th of July, if you see someone leaving the convention centre when SP talks about advances for CCC, it could be me... or you... Will you take up the cross with me?
I believe that Jesus, who is the truth, the way and the life will be with me if I carry His cross.
To God be the Glory!
Peace be with you.
i have spoken to few pastors (most are my contempories) from bible institute malaysia(old name) for bible college malaysia. this is an internal matter between the members and the sp and deacon.by the consitution of c c , sp is the executive power of the organisation.it would be interferring and seemed that sp and his favourite runners had met them to stay out of this.
at the nefc level, the executive council been polite advised the same.
despite of these, 2 very senior pastors had met sp on this to resolve. sp is willing to listen once the plantiff withdraw their court actions and make a public apologies.
perhaps members should comment on this.
with all these , do we submit to this condition? what when he refused ..we have no avenue?
WHY "COMBINED" Service...
when there are still 2 services 8.30am & 10.30 am?
And 5pm Service will be back in DH? ABSURD!
The present total congregation will be *1,000 or less,DH can accommodate all in the way done for "big' events like Christmas.
*( by the way, they should ANNOUNCE number of attendees--just like Stadiums for Football or Tennis events--they tell you how many people are in there. After all, CC head Ushers/Asst Pas do take count and keep record--see them walking up & down the ailse "clicking" on the hand held counter
Why Is UNNECESSARY money spent for this rental at SDCC!??? or PG got it FOC or he pays for it from his Swiss bank account?
"Combined" Service means three Services in one.
Or PG & POD & Assoc Pastors has REDEFINED "Combine" to mean Separate, individual Service!???
(even such a straight forward term can be TWISTED by them, can you bear)
HELP!
Fantastic! A fulltime Pastor/ church worker couple (who had never worked in the corporate sector at all) can afford such extensive and expensive house renovation on their house in Taman Tun. Corner single-storey terrace house (with extra land)was converted to double-storey, fully air-cond. with White House-type facade sometime in 2006/ 2007, i.e. after CCC project had commenced, and, in every fund-raisers, we were told to "sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice" to contribute to build God's house.
Indeed, I recall, and I'm sure many of you would, one Sunday service in which Rev. Marion Lim of Singapore was invited to preach, and challenged us to contribute to CCC building project. Using her own example of building their church in Singapore, with free-flowing tears ('boxes of tissues' in her own words), Rev. Marion Lim shared that they sold off their apartment to contribute to their church building fund. She also shared that she had then told her pastors and Church staff 'no change of cars until their church is completed'. I was touched by her openness in leading by example.
What a contrast over here in CC. Our fulltime Church workers build their own mansion before CCC (or God's house, as they claim it to be), PG upgraded his car (Volvo XC90) and the church bought a fleet of new cars (MYVIS)for the APs.
If Rev. Marion Lim was speaking from God through that Sunday sermon, it had fallen on deaf ears. Or, is the CC leadership practising the principle of 'do as we say (sacrifice & give) but don't do as we do (no sacrifice, live it up).
And now, they are preparing to raise some more money (through advances) from the combined services on JULY 4 when they have not given a full explanation and accounting of what's going on in the stalled CCC project.
LET'S WISE UP! DON'T BE DUPED AGAIN!
What members make public apologies!!!
Apologise for what????
He steal our missions money so that he can have RM1 million RETIREMENT FUND FOR HIMSELF and we must apologise. This is ridiculous and he has the audacity to ask for apology.
And the two very senior pastors quietly accept this???
Are these guys man or not???
You don't talk and negotiate with wrong doers... you just sack him from the organisation like he sacked so many pastors before when he was the Gen Sup.
What goes on in the minds of pastors is really beyond human understanding. They can stand and preach one thing on Sunday and then when faced with reality they become another person and have another set of values. SHOCKING!!!
Members must live by faith.
Pastors must have 1 million in seed fund for retirement.
Members can live on fresh air.
Pastors must have good food so can preach better.
Members' children go public schools and study locally.
Pastors children do Home schooling and then go overseas.
Members must give church advance from children's education fund, retirement fund and even coffin fund to build the church.
Pastors get church scholarship to study overseas, build up seed fund in case jobless and free funeral expenses complimentary from church staff welfare fund.
Members must sell big house and live in small house to give money to build the church.
Pastors must buy small house then renovate to big house and then sell to build his house overseas.
Members must travel by Air Asia to save money to give to church.
Pastors fly business class to attend Church Growth Conference.
Members must not spoilt their children with expensive gifts and gadgets.
Pastors children must be showered with all designer gifts and latest gadgets.
Members must give give give all your money, even what you don't have also must give by faith first.
Pastors just ask ask ask for all our money. If we don't have, then go borrow, withdraw, fast & starve or give in advance your bonus money, ang pow money.
Time to wise up everyone. Do what the pastors do.
Wow! you guys are good. The last two postings are excellent. Keep up the good work. A civil engineer ex-Calvarite told me last night that the analysis in "When Christians March" is exactly what he had been questioning. It is an accurate and insightful analysis of the problem with the CCC. This morning's posting on "Advances" is a fair and valid presentation of the issues and questions that a Calvarite must have answers to before making an advance. Don't let good money chase after bad; meaning if it is a lost cause throwing more money at it would not solve the problem.
It must be a mistake. Not possible for BNM to grant an Exemption Order for advances to be given to an non-legal body. Definitely some misrepresentation. Maybe deacon Philip Tan has something to do with it.
Below is some simple arithmetic which one can mull over.
CHC with a membership of 28,000 acquired a new church for SGD310M. Schedule for services at end of first quarter 2011. Do not convert the currency into RM, but look at it as dollar-to-dollar and put aside the investigation for the time being. If the funds were to come from members, this works out to be SGD11,000 each. If spread over 5 years, each member will contribute SGD2,214 per year which is within the ability of most members to give. The new church can seat 12,000, therefore it costs SGD25,830 per seat.
Another church with 4,000 members is making plans for a new building with a budget of SGD45M. This is approx. SGD11,250 per member and SGD2,250 per year for 5 years.
Now for CC, CCC is presently costing RM216M and with 2,000 members, the contribution per member is a mind boggling figure of RM108,000 and if spread over 5 years it is RM21,600 per year! And with 5,000 seats, is RM43,200 per seat. Why is the cost of CCC so exorbitant. Are the door handles and toilet seats of gold. No wonder, the church is asking members to give, give and give without justification in the cost breakdown and finding ways to get members to give more. To give more money in pursue of this project is very dicey. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Who knows in the future, they will up the cost again giving a 100-and-one not reasons but excuses. The architect had spoke of a RM100M mistake, who knows someone may later, say, a RM50M calculation mistake! To continue giving, many members will have to live on sunlight and fresh air.
Who will be left to hold the baby if there is an "exodus" of the G's to America?
The G's will be able to live comfortably in the faraway land and nobody there will the wiser knowing that PG is a master is oratory skills and deceit.
The Deacons? Not easy to sue them. Probably they will quietly leave and go to another church.
The AP's? Probably become jobless pastors. With their high wages and fringe benefits and "reputation", not easy to get a job. A number of them had passed retirement age as per the Staff Handbook and presently still drawing a good fat pay. So, the AP's are in a very shaky position. That's why they are 99% with PG. Poor AP's when the crux come.
ha ha ha
CCC in GFC or CFC(Calvary Financial Crisis) ..... as I have said the longer you allow the spin and no injunction to stop the disbursement of monies due to trading insolvent, the more time you give them to move money inappropriately. I have written it a year ago now about freeze the bank account and Grand Priest trying to lie with stop work for only 6 months.....I think more than a 18 months now idle.
However your injunction was flawed. So after granting you the first injunction with members list did you find any irregularities? You guys are on the verge of seeing CC property being Auctioned off to the highest bidder when the CC cannot pay its bill. I thought from the flyer the Tan Si and his Si BOD had some "Loans & Cash Crap" Available $55M + some $9 million miracle....flyer......wow even I lose track of Actually how much money they have and need. Looks like the tap is only dripping now. Time to go to the mains and turn that off too until no more drip + Kick the tenants OUT.
Even if all you members sell your house to build this CCC, it will not be sufficient. The long term maintenance means more ATM buttons needs to be pressed. THIS is CC GFC!!! Throwing money into Sub Prime CCC. Its a pity some of those those so called "salt" of the earth Tan Si Christian cannot see this as a desperate move to Plug some holes Emerging. They ask for $35 Million on top of those other Millions.....thinking CC Worshippers are general Public so Eager to take up this IPO for their part in this EXTENSION of God's Kingdom(as if God's Kingdom needs mere mortals with HIS extension!). If CCC was a REIT IPO offering like recent Sunway REIT, I can only pity the FOOLS taking up this offer. Fools exist in spirit filled Church is Sad. What is sadder is Fools being deceived and lose Faith in Jesus, ending up in HELL!!
If an IPO was lunch in the secular world based on Tan Si CCC promises and no one take it up; I am right to say then Worshippers of CC are FOOLS who keep taking up the IPO and Rights issues, share spilt + more rights issues of Tan Si and his merry band of BOD management, Pastors cum money changer. Tan Si and BOD asking $35 Million means they hope to raise $1 Million for Cash Flow issues. You will get this plea YEARLY so that $1 million can be raised for another Year of Survival. I think the time is coming...get ready to Unleashed the pebble. If they can move money from CC to CIM and around the world and back perhaps you need to ask them to OPEN the Account books for SCRUTINY??? Ask them how much left in checking account, FD....etc....of course that is pie in the SKY Hope..... Bring your banners, bring your t shirt, info stand, co-ordinated team....Resign, Stop the Corruption, Be Transparent, ...thing of worthy SLOGAN and Banner. I can assure you they Tan Si and BOD will start to fear when you UP A NOTCH your Protest with Banners. Display People power in CC. Don't wait for the Auction/Lelong of your Damansara site to take Action...too late lor when Lelong starts....Maybe TTG Better Start a Pledge fund to BUY BACK CC in Damansara ask PG to take CCC and Break up....how much the Damansara site?? time to do deal before LELONG comes to Calvary! How much CC want to Sell Damansara site??.........the saga continues
According to lawyer Wong KK you cannot sue the Church because it is not a legal entity but can sue the individual board members. Since they are the ones asking for the advances you should be able to hold them liable.
Deacons don't know what they getting themselves into. If church cannot pay back advances they could be liable. Worse still if they did not disclose to Finance Minister that CC not a legal body. Would not matter even if they resign. They still liable.
To the TTG, thanks for the write up on the "advance exercise" that the church is launching on July 4th. I hope that all who are informed will find enough courage to refrain from giving any more money, even if it is an advance, as there is no guarantee of getting the money back. It is always difficult to refrain from giving money to the church, after all the sermons made (over the years) about the importance of giving to the church. Anyway, I found comfort in the last point published in the June 26 article about prosperity gospel. It will help me overcome any guilt about turning off the tap completely.
The Guneratnams do not care about the deacons at all! They only care for themselves, living self-centered lives and abusing their spiritual authority & mis-using the gospel to manipulate the sheep to provide for their lavish lifestyle! The deacons will end up 'holding the baby'!But they do not deserve pity, really! They brought it upon themselves by siding with unrighteousness, covetuousness & spiritual abuse.
Can someone write a official letter to inform the Finance Ministry that Calvary Church is not a legal entity, not registered under Registrar of Society or registered under the Company Commission of Malaysia Act. Permit to collect ADVANCE from members is FLAWED as CC cannot be sued ?
I had been CONNED since 1985,the FLAWS in the CC Constitution Passed !
I do not want to be CONNED again on 4-7-2010 at SDCC! I am not giving any money nor any Advances! NOT GIVING a single Cent to CC or CCC at all !
PGs were not and are not Pastors anymore since 2003 and 2006 according to he Church Staff Handbook. Got CONNED by illegal Pastors again ?
I am NOT stupid to be CHEATED again and again and again indefinitely !
CC comes under the umbrella of AOG Malaysia. We can go after AOG also to get our money. AOG is registered.
They may say they cannot intervene but that is their business. If they give license to the pastors to open church under AOG name, they better take responsibility of their pastors.
The combined meeting in SDCV is liken to leading the unsuspecting sheep to the slaughterhouse. As they trooped in the senior butcher of CC would be twitching his fingers in glee, counting not the attendance, but the imaginary banknotes.
Everything (enticing message, songs, maybe a testimony or 2) have been programmed to be played to the gallery,to soften the shearing process and to ensure a bountiful harvest, not of souls, but again of the banknotes. The deceptions, manipulations, disseminations of half-truths, etc. have been perfected to a fine art.
Once shorn of the wool and being of not much of a use, the chief's butcher's attitude would turn glaringly hostile and ill-tempered, angrily voicing, : "If you think I'm preaching the gospel of prosperity, go jump into a lake; what you have given, you don't ask (how it is being use, obviously not for missions, but banked into the account of his personal ministry, for his whims & fancies - if funds for the tsunami victims & WAGRA can be diverted to CIM, what is taboo anymore?).
Now that CCC had been stagnated & beset with problems, much needed funds have to be available to resume work, at the same time, wiping off the multi-million RM losses.Would you be lulled by all these wiles of the senior butcher to rescue his myopic vision or would you wake up and declare, 'the time has come for Truth, Transparency & Godly-governanve to prevail?'
Good job, TTG! Once again you've demonstrated that you 'love God and love your neighbors'.
It is your love for God and this house of His that you persevere in getting God's justice done.
It is your love for your neighbors that you are trying to protect them from Prince Guneratnam's advances scam.
Bumberbee, no need for guilt. Channel your offering to help with the countless needs out there. Suggestion: SHELTER needs funds to provide basic education to the Myanmar refugee children. Can you imagine a child growing up in this day and age without education? Inconceivable, right? AND, they didn't ask to be refugees.
"..According to lawyer Wong KK you cannot sue the Church because it is not a legal entity but can sue the individual board members. "
Please do not be CONNED by lawyer Wong KK ! He is not the Judge ?
(1)CC not Legal entity, but can open various Current accounts?
(2)CC not legal entity, but can open Tax Files to apply for Numerous tax exemptions?
Who want to SUE CC as a TEST Case to remove the 2 illegal Pastors from 2003 and 2006 following the Church Handbook disqualifications?
The interview with PG, Please go to
http://www.citynews.sg
The Interviewer asked this last question to PG:
Interviewer:
" So, what is your short term goal, in the next 5 years?":
PG:
"Well, goals are goals..." giggles away )
basically to meet humanitarian needs,
setting-up feeding programme, reaching out to
those who in need whether physically
or health problems or something like that..you know" (???) (giggles away--typical, whenever, he is 'caught' off guard)
Imagine "something like that!"!!--these are his NEXT 5-year goals!!! ( Why goals, and not God's VISION which he had said of CCC?--a give away that it was actually his "goal"!)
Whatever was multi-million CalvaryLand built for then? and that was last 5 Years ago? The TRUTH-- it's a white elephant of PG1& PG2..(it was a ploy to get PG himself a "Datuk" and nothing of what PG2 declared --to help single mothers, widows, society outcast, poor etc. She is also a BIG TIME bluffer!
In the next 5yr wouldn't Mega CCC (completed by 2011 as announced by Pastor Skum) be up & running as the "Regional Centre of Christian Education and International Christian Conventions, etc as PG boasted as his VISION!?
Very wishy-washy answers throughout the interview, listen carefully--rings hallow, without a clue of his own vision for CC. One sees and hears a CON clearly.
the only value members and the public: MONEY. sp and these abetting deacons, associate pastors is taking 1 gambit this sunday.
there alot of preparation to sync and psych .some very friendly parties are brought in to set the pace for this money rasing campaign.unsuspecting members and potential donors will think: ALL IS WELL.
sp aint fool with his cunning up his sleeves.
here, as once a faithful donor.i appeal this 4th july , we must put a stop to this milking, we dont get any chance like this.
get as many members ex members axed members to be present. stop playing hide and seek sitting behind.get in early and occup the front rows.
at the right time , rise up.
right actions will follow in due course!
No doubt that we will turn off the tap completely. But PG will still survive on the few innocent givers who knew nothing about his sins. They will still give despite struggling financially themselves. Some of them are our friends, brothers & sisters in Christ. We cannot just save ourselves by not giving, we must also tell them not to give. TTG did not do enough awareness, so less that many youth and young people still give sacrifically to PG. We must do more than just stop giving & pray. If you saw someone is being conned, would you warn him? You should, if you love him. So we must do something even more. Walk out when the announcement of giving is made is good idea. But we must also let the few innocent know what happen. Maybe make T-shirt with slogan, and maybe bring banner before the church service and tell the people as they walk into the church about PG's sins. Bring awareness & save them from being conned. One day they will be grateful.
Spoken to some friends today regarding the coming combined worship. We decided not going. Since we not planning to lend our money we not going to waste time listening about it.
They will beef up security. I don't want to be blamed when they cannot collect enough money.
I don't think I'll go. It's a waste of money again to rent such lavish space with the purpose to motivate giving. Don't they ever learn about financial stewardship and humility? I want to spend that hour in listening to a good message from God. Giving is an everyday thing and I don't want to waste a Sunday morning listening to pastors asking for money. My heart has never been for the CCC. I've been channeling tithes and offering to immediate missions needs and evangelical work. There are poor and sick people who are dying out there. Why won't the church listen to the woes and cries of the people instead of getting all entangled in debt with a building they can't possibly afford? It is sad that CC leadership has displayed such spiritual immaturity and downright arrogance. I pray and hope they will learn and repent quickly.
Public Donors say ....
Thank you for bringing to our attention that the present Calvary Church never practice " Truth, Transparency, Good Governance, Good stewardship and Accountability ".
The present Calvary Church leadership are continuing to behave like CONMEN without SHAME !
Behaving more like CHEATS !
My Family and my Friends will not be contributing any more Money to Calvary Church on 4-7-2010 or on any other fund raising events for CALVARY CONVENTION CENTER anymore.
Please do not take OUR GENEROSITY for GRANTED !
TRYING to continue TO CON ME and My Friends in the Name of GOD is unforgivable and VERY SHAMEFUL !
Will you STOP CONNING the PUBLIC !
Saw this in MT by RPK
And Islam is very clear on this. Islam forbids us from following imams or ulama that profit from religion. You must not pray behind them, not even for Friday prayers. Better you pray alone at home. That is how serious Islam is about so-called religious people who use religion for worldly gains.
Hello...Salt of the Earth CC Christian....don't be like those who have ears that CANNOT Hear and Eyes that cannot see. Good luck to those who still INSIST on participating in the REIT offering by Tan Si and his Corrupted BOD......Fools that don't hear and see have no cure. Shame on you for allowing CC Scam to have descended to such a low level that OTHER religion ideology needs to be quoted to open your eyes to see how your saltiness is gone and you have LIT the lamp and Hid under the BED!!
If I were a christian Chief Priest of CC who is RIGHTEOUS and Courages, I would set lots of time to argue and OPEN the Accounting Books to PUBLIC SCRUTINY and pray and fast with you to resolve the problems and issues. I will have lots of after service, weekend, weekday meetings with ALL Church attendees to set the matter straight or sort out any grief. Otherwise how to take communion again week after week since my actions could have wronged a brother or sister?? Yet as much as you can talk about AOG & CC...the BOD and Tan Si have become money Changer of your Church.......If only ALL have the Courage of Jesus and DO THE ACT of GRABBING THEM by the Collar and throw them out of the Temple....individually probably not...but collectively...you have all sorts of Power that cannot be stopped!!!
Bring Banner, wear Slogan, have information counter, signatory campaign for entire BOD to RESIGN, be seen as opposition to CORRUPTION....the gates of Hell cannot prevail........this saga must end and cannot be allowed to drag on past 2010. Otherwise, this Mega Gathering will continue more frequently beyond 2010 to press ATM of CC. Its becoming a CULT like church if you let it prolong too long.....the saga continues but needs to end SOONER than SOON.
I am shocked to hear that one of deacons' alternatives is to stop construction of CCC. This means deacons have given up on PG's vision. If God's vision they would not abandon it. Also if CCC stopped and project sold all those who gave money can claim back. Legal case in Singapore where contributor got his money back from church when project not carried out. Please get ready your tax receipts and cheque butts to prove how much you gave.
we are going on 4th july and not giving. by been absence simply mean sp get away with it. whatever hype great music, free high tea ! international speakers etc. this wont work on our wong families.
we are going this 4th july and will stop the rot with any other members!
Do you think PG and BOD are that thick skin and stupid to think they can continue to con and members will not stage a protest?? Those who plan to walk out, make sure you are not a voting member. PLEASE DO NOT LOSE YOUR VOTE. PG and gang will probably plan the next round of "axing" VM. The venue at SDCC is also a "camouflage" venue in case there is a protest, the public will not know it is cc.
I can't believe all the pastors, BOD and church staff are part of this scam. Can they be that blinded or spiritually dead?? Is their fear of being sacked by PG greater than their faith in GOD. Now, is the time for these individuals who believe in doing the right thing to make a stand, quit their position in church and walk out in front of the whole congregation. I am sure they will get the biggest applause and come out of this mess smelling like a rose.
Moderator, if you have received this reply the second time, please ignore it...i am not sure whether the first one got through.
Brothers and sisters in Christ, not attending the service on the 4th of July will only give more powers to the almighty SP to deceive more brothers and sisters who have no idea what is going on.
Maybe God wants to use us, like He uses His prophets to give advice to the Kings. Listen and pray for the holy spirit to guide you. I have listened, and I will act.
So, please, come to the service, and if you do not like the idea if CCC, then walk out from the service when they ask or pray for advances, like me, because I do not agree to the method they are using and also the CCC vision. I hope I do not need to walk out alone.
God bless.
My eyes are opened after watching the movie "Valkrie" starring Tom Cruise. Who would have taught, a movie can teach us something.
Hitler thought he got blessings from God to wipe out His choosen people, the Jews from the face of the earth. There were many assasination attempts on him by those who opposes his evil-doing and when these attempts fail, he got more bolder, arrogant and powerful, thinking that the real God is on his side. He always thank god (god with a small g)whenever the attempts failed. Those who plotted to assasinate him, executed....crucified.
Is SP vision is God's vision, or god's vision? Don't forget that satan is a very good deceiver. He has deceived Hitler and the Germans, is he deceiving SP and Calvary Church?
However, the crucified people who went against Hitler did not go in vain and eventually the Germans woke up and Hitler fell. Victory is God's.
Well, if I was PG, his BOD or any of his supporters, I will be keeping up to date with this blog. We are basically telling him the game plan for July 4th. He has all the time to come up with counter actions and for sure it will not be published in any blog. So I say this ... while the info published is of use to the general public and those who care about CC, it can also be used to great effect by PG & team. We will probably hear some "warning" at the start of the July 4th service that walking out is un-Christian like behavior, etc, etc. I wish you all the best as I will not attend. In my opinion, attending is akin to endorsing this event, even if our real intentions are the direct opposite. Conversely, a poorly attended service will give the most direct message - which is - the congregation is fed up and does not bother to turn up to be conned. No more!
When the senior pastors go the WRONG DIRECTION, the people suffer! When the senior pastors serve themselves, the people moan! When the senior pastors love money, prestige, titles,branded goods, luxury, business-class travel, worldly possessions, the praise of men, fame & fortune, the name of the Lord has been disgraced!
This is the great 'falling away' of the end-times, when the love of many shall grow cold! Yes, Judgment MUST begin in the House of God!
I fully agree with Bumberbee at 1.55am on 29 June 2010 that .........."a poorly attended service will give the most direct message - which is - the congregation is fed up and does not bother to turn up to be conned".
Thus, I would implore ALL Concerned Calvarites to just ignore the 4th July Combined Service. Yes! We should just boycott it so that PG & his cohorts can see for themselves how much support they really have.
WE are suppose to come to Worship God and TOUCH HIS THRONE ! Not come to a "secular fund raising event" like the " money changers of old time " did ?
VERY SHAMEFUL to hear about this !
Want to CON members and visitors again ?
dear ah lian,
rightly so to make the hall half empty is best ,,but many of us knowing sp and his hugh support of prayers warriors, and the church staff are on tel and sms to many of their friends, and associate to attend this big DO!
there flyers , invitations and gentle persuasion on every LG TO get at least 200 from his group.direct or indirect.
boycot may not work. we have to in the thick of action and rise within the "con artist" this sunday
My humble opinion is that we should attend for three main reasons. First, we should not create an avenue for CC pastoral and staff team to comment that the leadership tried but we did not reciprocate. Some (if not, most) of you would comment that SP himself did not accept the invitation from TTG to discuss. Since we were extremely disappointed with SP's action, do we want to behave like him now? Second, we should hear from the "horse's" mouth instead via another channel. Information could be quoted out of context when it is transmitted. Third, this is our church even though many of us are worshipping elsewhere. Frankly, I think it is a "losing battle" both ways; continue with or abandon the CCC project. This is really sad.
OK all Calvarites unhappy with the lack of accountability and transparency on the CCC project are to boycott the 4th July Combined Service. We must press for an EGM at which we can ask questions and demand for answers.
I still think that boycotting may not work. There will be good attendance, and the church will carry on with taking advances from our "not-so-well informed brothers and sisters".
The walk-out action will not only show our protest against the CCC to the leaders of the church, but also to those attending the service.
Yes, I know, they will make those who leave the convention centre like a criminal. I said before, it won't be easy but we have to be prepared to carry the cross...
So CC people are so afraid of being called un-christian.....? So easily mesmerized/Brain Washed when you turn up to the Service and easily Hypnotized to just give your Life savings? Then Better not attend. This meeting are for Christian who wants to right the wrong and DOING Something about it. Well I am advocating attending, the same as turun padang for War against evil. If you plan to go and sulk & whinge and do nothing...then I agree better attend other churches and HOPE for Miracle!!
To those who are going and Put on a SHOW....be like Martin Luther Reformation Movement. Be seen, be heard and be Known. Tell those who are attending CC, the top dog & team is Evil. Just as Martin Luther told the top dog pope is evil in not allowing people to read the Bible....in your case to see the truth (accounting and movement of money!!)
So anybody can tell me if Tan Si CIM return every cent INCLUDING those interest earned monies to CC?? If Tan Si gasak the interest earned money and BOD of CC + AP pretend that is so WONDERFUL then that to me is a comfirmation the ENTIRE Team must go. No question asked. So go and ask also if Tan Si did retun with Interest or Not + Prove IT!! Ask for bank details of that cheque and the amount.....You think I accept verbal yes only kah? So go bring Banner..."Resign IF no completion date". "Stop the Corruption!" , "WARNING, DON'T GIVE A CENT to Corruption!". ...... so please update first thing after the service about what happen..... If got makan, makanlah....why shy?? Make this exercise a negative experience for Tan Si and BOD Team!! T - 4 ....the saga drags on!!
I will go but not give…..If they do a head count it will be for the attendance. Per head count percentage in giving will be less then. They will have quantity but not quality. Will not support but enjoy the cooling of the air con (it can be hot on the outside but ‘hotter’ on the inside). Have anybody count the maintenance of CCC once it is up? We have to pay quite a huge amount for something that will be used for 4 times a month or maybe maximum of 10 times a month if you count the various ministries that will have their activities using the premises. Assuming the collections itself will be enough for the maintenance then how about the loan for CCC? By faith we say yes to the loan maintenance but for how long….how about the payment for the advances? Which comes first, CCC or loan? How long can the members hold back? Some will have emergencies and we cant turn them down forever. CCC cost an initial of RM185M but it will not stop there as there are fittings and furnitures…. and I am sure the furniture itself wont be cheap…you cant put in something that is not equivalent to the surroundings rite? Further details must be though before embarking into such a massive project…….I pray that God will give wisdom to all…….
The expected maintenance cost for the fully completed CCC would be in the region of RM400,000.00 to RM600,000.00 per month.
Has the cold war started? PG will have got wind that some Calvarites may not go to SDCC on Sunday, July 4.
Being the first Sunday of the month, it is Communion day. As SDCC is not too far from CC, it will not be a logistic problem to do so. PG being a master schemer and plotter will in all probability have communion there. This is his way of making one feel bad if he/she misses communion just because he/she boycotts the service on July.
Secondly, he will use the occasion to his full advantage to brainwash, weaken the resolve of Calvarites and drum into them that giving the advance is a noble gesture which please God. He will use all means to make one feel bad for not signing up.
So, if any Calvarite who will be attending this service but does not intend to take part in this money raking scheme, brace yourself and harden your thoughts.When he speaks of the advance, meditate "tell yourself again and again that this is a psychological action to weaken me. I will not yield."
The ushers may even give Calvarites a card to sign up. A common practice in CC is that the pastors will asked the congregation to hold the offering or pledges in his/her hands and hold it up while he blesses the giver. This is another way of making someone who does not hold anything up feel bad - imagine what your neighbour will think if you hold nothing up. I have spoken of this gesture to a number of Christians and they concur that it is a bad gesture as it makes one feel bad and yet often they say that it is between the giver and God. Isn't this a mockery of their preaching.
To those who will be there on Sunday and who does not intend to give an advance, be strong, do not let this schemer and money-raking pastor weaken your resolve.
I think PG & gangs know many oppose him, but they don't care. All they wanted is money. If they dare to sack the 400 members, do you think PG afraid of seeing people walk out of the church? No. HIs conscious is corrupted already. Appeal on his conscious won't work. He has no feeling toward those who hurted. ALl he wanted is money money money. So he is afraid if there is no money, meaning when no one give money to him. Thus, walk out alone or merely let the statistic tell the truth may not work. No one know the statistic except those who count it, and PG won't reveal the true statistic either in order t maintain his reputation and present a fake "everything ok" appearance. Instead if the congregation including the innocent ignorance people know his fault, sins & all the evil he did, then they will stop giving, and this make PG afraid. Therefore, bring awareness to those who had not yet read this blog. Tell them in church with banner, open counter, T-shirt slogan, march, etc. Tell them everything. This will also save them heartache, loosing their money in giving to PG. Save our brothers & sisters from being conned by PG, and indirectly this will also make PG nearer to repentant.
To PG it is purely a numbers game. Nothing to do with vision from God. With DH capacity of just over 1,000 he was already pulling in around RM15 million a year. Multiply the capacity 5 times and think of the numbers. So RM5 or RM 6 million for maintenance is siup siup soi. Build an award winning church, people will come. People come money comes. Most Christians are spiritually shallow anyway. Making them part with their money gives them relieve from their guilt.
Let me ask a question. When you throw a party, which scenario would you dread more:
1) no one or very few people turn up.
2) many people turn up, but including some trouble makers.
I believe most people would consider scenario #2 as evidence of a more successful party.
So for those who plan to attend on July 4th, and walk out, please be aware that PG & team are probably already anticipating such a manoeuvre. It would not surprise me that they have already defined and prepared containment actions for such an incident.
We should also consider that there may be many people in the congregation who are currently fence sitters, those who take a neutral stance towards the CC saga. Any walk out or voicing of objections may give them the wrong impression that these people are trouble makers, disrupting the order of service in the House of the Lord (yes, remember that this July 4th event is actually a Sunday service, and not some EGM or annual meeting). For sure we do not want to turn these neutral people to be pro-PG. So be careful with what you do during the July 4th service - for those who plan to attend.
As for me, I will still stick to non attendance.
Remember:
NEVER fear the evil one.
The Presence of Lord Jesus will be with us.
Satan flee in the name of Jesus.
Jesus cause us to Triumph.
SO BE THERE, Look into PG's eye, he will then not be able to lie!
"...The ushers may even give Calvarites a card to sign up. A common practice in CC is that the pastors will asked the congregation to hold the offering or pledges in his/her hands and hold it up while he blesses the giver"
JUST write the sentence " Sorry NO MONEY & NO ADVANCE " on the Pledge Cards and Pledge envelopes and hold it up for PGs to PRAY ! This is a very effective way to SAY NO to being CONNED again!
Let's the LORD of HOST deal with PGs and his " Blinded followers" in HIS OWN WAYS!
Many have expressed their opinions and now it is up to each individual to decide for himself or herself as to whether they should go to SDCC this 4 July. Whatever you feel its rights and you have the peace of God in your heart. FOR ME, ITS NO GO!!!
The main focus now is not to let PG know that many against him. He knew already, but it does not bother him. MOney is all that he wanted. The focus should be let others who are new & ignorant to know the sins PG did & is doing. Therefore, bring banner, posters & awareness to the people while they are coming into the service. Tell them so that they won't be conned by PG like how he did to us. Do two things: (1) Cut all sources of income to PG by being there to protest and warn potential donors. (2) Cut all sources of moral support to PG, by broadcast his sins. He love money & fame. Without these two, he will give up. Tell AOG that as they support & justify PG despite his sins, they are wrong. Broadcast the non-action of AOG. Tell them negligence is not of God. If they can't warn against PG, they better don't preach at all.
If its a go....we can show and voice to the innocent and let them be aware.....if its a no go......attendence will drop add PG will hopefully be aware that we are boycotting
Publish Reject
(Anonymous)
Someone should organize to distribute leaflet and give to the people who attend. The leaflet should highlight all evils that PG & gangs did, and tell them not to give anymore. Any giving is an indirect encouragement for PG to stubbornly continue to sin and hurt people.
The Star reported on 1/7/10 that Nam Fatt defaulted on interest payment and openly acknowledged it cannot pay......
Wonder at the rate that CC wants to borrow from its members whether it will be able to meet their obligation to pay back the loan to the members. So, please rethink before lending to the church to feed the fancy of our rich PG who could easily sell some of his houses and loan to the church.
Let's see on Sunday how much the G family will loan the church. Is it not leadership by example?
How will you answer the Life Group leader who ask you,
"if you don't go back and serve in cc, who will conduct your funeral for you when you die?"
Simple question to get people back to cc. So if you guys want 5 star funeral service with PG personally conducting the funeral for you, you know what to do.
Life Group leaders who is using this tactic should be ashamed.
Prince Gunaretnam knows exactly what he is doing. His heart has been hardened for years.
Are his supporters really naive or are they just followers of men and not Christ?
High Pressure Offerings
Cathedral Building Wars
Siphoning Cash into Property
Excessive Wages
Perks
Nepotism
http://www.cultwatch.com/HowPastorsGetRich.html
Anonymous,
Ex-calvarite...
CT & TTG had not doned enough to organise with plans & strategies in letting the many ignorant CC members to know and understand the true situation involving the CC leadership. I have came across some who do not seemed to know or understand the true situation, thus I believed there are many like these few. I agree with "Anonymous" who suggested printing leaflets and hand them out or send to as many members as possible as this can create doubt in them over the CC leaders. Many I believed also do not know how to get to the CT website. If a BIG majority of members can come to your side, you already can claimed victory. I believed this is what they fear.
I agree with Anonymous on July 3 3:39pm. Distribute leaflet to bring awareness is necessary. PG sack the 400 members in order to keep them away from the remaining ignorant members. He afraid his sins & dirty deeds will be exposed. He plan a tactic of present fake "everything ok" & joyful appearance. He want to hide & buried evidence of his sin behind without repent. TTG must tell the rest of the church members. It is PG who should be afraid, not you, if you speak up publicly. It is PG who did wrong, he is the one who feel the shame, not you.
CT & TTG must bring greater awareness to the innocent members who still think CC leadership is using the money for mission, when all they really did is to satisfy their own lust for wealth & glamour fame. Merely pray & stop giving is not enough. Speak and bring greater awareness.
Tomorow, PG will of course present a fake mission orientated appearance to the members & ask them to give. He will present slides of mission, outreach,charity to deceive the heart of the people. CT must reveal and expose their deception. CT must protect the ignorance sheep from being conned by PG. Let in every attempt PG collect money, there will be CT & TTG to expose their deception.
Missions giving and faith promise giving. Notice something? Every time it is Pushani, Pushani, Pushani. For the millions we give to missions we have only one missionary to boast of. How much of the missions fund is used to support Pushani? A fraction of 1%? The rest of the money is diverted to support Extended ministries, CIM and other PG projects.
I think initially Pushani was sent to support another church ministry, but when it is successful, CC takes over. Why? Why can't continue under that church? So concern about brand...When still small, let it be. When successful, make sure it carry CC name...so commercial minded. Mission giving has turned into merely an advertisement expenses for PG.
The 3rd Defendant, AOG Malaysia has applied to strike out our suit against them. The hearing for this was held on 4 June 2010. The Judge will deliver her judgment on 5 July 2010.
Let's Fast and Pray for Wisdom, Revelation for the Judge to deliver her Sound Wisdom!
Dear All,
Please read HOW PASTORS GET RICH.....its an eye opener.I just read it and how true it is.Do some comparing, research and ask the question....IS IT HAPPENING TO CC?For me its a yes definately.please open your eyes....
hi CT, please update us on how the Sime Darby services were
any news also on how much it cost to rent the place along with equipment etc?
We are working on it and will post it as soon as the write up is completed.
1)1The Judge delivered her decision on 5 July 2010 in favour of the 3rd Defendant.
2)Henceforth, the OS case will continue against 1st and 2nd Defendants only.
This confirmed that AOG Malaysia existence is meaningless as it has failed to live up to its duties & obligations! It is chasing after the WIND for AOGM to remain in its present form!
The Custodian has indeed Fallen in disgrace ? The Prophecy given is coming to pass!
Let's Fast and Pray for Wisdom, Revelation , peace and Tranquility to prevail in the SPIRITUAL Realm in Malaysia! AMEN!
So is there no one who have seen the Transfer back from Tan Si External Ministry money back to CC, can comfirm that every cent was returned including the interest earned??
Or is this another secret TOO SMALL to reveal because its states the obvious. To those TTG and those who are Privy to these information, you should state categorically if the entire amount + interest was transfered back to CC or not. Even if you don't know just state don't know. The simple people are looking for small things to bring down Goliath!! Sometimes desired outcome can come without courts intervention.....
Apa macam that Sunday Gathering...did people distribute leaflets?? The Spin continues...the saga continues
to EQUALIZER:
for a long while now, you seemed to be promising in the pursuit of the Truth in the Cause, and always appeared to have some sort of ACTION in place.
Alas, I think you are merely leading bloggers on ?
Hope you are one who mean to do what you said here.
Everyone's effort is needed to bring PG & BOD to the book.
Suggestions are good & we need them. But we also need someone who is influential enough to gather all concern members for action. You see, PG has the church stage & money to work for him. He use sermon to get money, & church's money to get fame for him. BUt what do we have other than this isolated blog? How do we communicate with each others? Thus action against PG is rare & slow in organised. Of course, i understand we all have our own work & family, while PG is the full time conpastor who has so much time & so many deacons & pastors working for his dirty schemes. MOre so when even AOG pastors speak well of PG in their church. This is a toughs war to fight. If ccc is built, it is normal & predicted under the corrupt system of church today. BUt if TTG wins, it cannot be of human. It must be of God because it is much more easier in this fallen world, to build ccc than to bring PG down.
To Equilizer, Yoong and Wind of change,
did your plans to walk out, wear protest t'shirts, carry slogans and distribute leaflets took off? If you did not do it yourselves, next time, don't promote-lah. Or is it just a PYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE to frighten PG. Anyway, it's better to do what you say and say what you mean.
Looks like Assemblies of God Malaysia General Council is fast becoming a fossilised institution! Instead of protecting the interests of the Body of Christ in Malaysia it is bent on protecting the interests of corrupt,covetuous, erring ministers!! Is it practising a 'you scratch my back, i scratch yours' service to fellow erring ministers?
there is no chicken out on what was blogged here.i been advised by my lawyers not to 'MISBEHAVED' and not at any time prejudiced my suit. there alot of information gathering , documentations and verification on pg and gangs. real proofs of mismanagement and abscondment of funds!
please be patient!
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