CCC FUNDING
On page 27 under Capital Commitments, the balance of monies required to complete the CCC is stated as RM121, 401,649.
If we deduct the balance of Fixed Deposit left in our bank which amounts to RM19,596,603 (page 24), we will still need to raise a whopping RM101,705,046.
CCC contribution from members for 2008 was RM7.8m (page 22) which is a drop of RM2.1 million from 2007.
Now, if we borrow RM100 million from the bank (which will be a miracle at this time) at an interest rate of 7% per year and assuming the members continue to give RM7.8 million per year (which will be another miracle), it will take 32.7 years to pay off the loan !!
If the bank charges 6% interest, it will still take 24.5 years to repay!!
Our SP and Board of Deacons must have lots of faith (or total loss of touch with reality) to believe that members will continue to give sacrificially for at least the next 24.5 years.
The above calculations are done using normal banking loan software and assumes interest at monthly rest and NO change in interest rate in the next 24 to 32 years. We shudder to think what will happen when interest rates go up in future. Is this the legacy we wish to leave behind to our children and grandchildren?
EXTENDED MINISTRIES’ CASH BALANCES
If we add up all the cash and bank balances in the Extended Ministries’ accounts, we would find that there is a total of RM2.85 million cash idling there. (see table below)
But the interesting fact is that out of this sum, a total of RM1.86 million are in ministries controlled by the children of SP.
The 2nd interesting fact is that despite the large amount of cash left in the ministries, 2 of the ministries, namely the Calvary Life Ministries and Calvary Communication Ministry, continue to receive financial support from the Missions Dept.
The question that comes to mind is, why is there a need for the said ministries to keep such large cash surpluses? Since the church needs so much money to complete the CCC, should not these cash balances be returned to the main church accounts and used for the CCC or other overheads?
STIPENDS
The main Church accounts states a stipend cost of RM2.39 million (page 22) excluding EPF, SOCSO and staff welfare. But if we add the salaries and allowances paid out under the Missions Dept and Extended Ministries, the total stipend comes to RM3.85 million. This represents 45% of the total tithes and offerings received of RM8.57 million. This appears to be a large percentage.
We wonder if the Deacons have done any comparison with other churches to see if our stipend percentage is too high and if we are overpaying SP and our Pastors. (We know that most of the general church staff are underpaid, so their salaries are not an issue.) SP has always maintained that we are a Church and therefore, cannot be compared with the secular world. So we hope that our Deacons will revise SP’s salary to be comparable to other churches of our size, with a membership of 1,800 not 10,200.
12 comments:
Thank you for tabulating with a quick analysis of the financials of Calvary Church, extended ministries and the CCC building project.
Plainly, this is very poor stewardship(in layman's term mismanagement) of collections from tithes, offerings etc. I am sure no church of the size of the congregation of CC is silly to spend 45% of collections on stipends. Including EPF & Socso, it is around 48.4%. Come on, 48.4 sens of a ringgit going into payroll before so many other items of expenditure
Now add the other expenses like rates and municipal assessments, utilities, printing, insurance etc, what have you got left to carry out the priority programs of the Church's mission and evangelistic activities.
A serving deacon shouted down a member who had asked a most relevant issue about wise spending(which is following good stewardship of church funds) The deacon concerned was exceptionally charitable of his tithes and offerings that he said that spending 90% of total collections was okay as far as he was concerned. When a couple more like-minded like him got elected into the BOD, his "prophesy" will come true.
Calvary Today's group of volunteers have presented an interesting summary of total cost of the CCC project and the number of years to repay on the basis of 6% or 7% interest. Bible teaches us to be neither a lender nor borrower; are we following or departing from biblical teaching?
The Church must find more collections each year to cover the recurring staff costs and upkeeping costs which is no small potato for a massive centre upon completion.
It is most irresponsible of the leadership to keep silent on projected annual expenditures on the CCC and just focus on mortgaging of church's assets and bank borrowings besides the emphasis on fund raising. If the Building Project committee has done a study on all these issues, the members are entitled to know.
Wow, that is very high for the stipends. Can someone confirmed on the total no. of staff. Assuming the total number of staff is 50, then the average annual salary per staff is RM77,000.00 which is about RM6400.00 per month per staff. This is rather high, considering that it is only a church and I think most of the staff are not even near RM5000 per month. I have known of staff who worked in the church for 10 to 20 years and their salary is nowhere near RM5000. Just as a comparison,in my company of more than 100 staff where there are alot of professionals, our average monthly salary per staff is only RM4,700.00. Then of course the answer that will be given will be that we cannot be compared to the secular world. Sigh. Heard that too often.
I think some staff are getting exorbitant salaries. The church constitution allows members to look at the church accounts at all times but I dont any member has been allowed to look at the salaries of church staff including the pastor.
I wonder how many pastors in Malaysia earn more than RM20,000.00 per month.
2 GENERATIONS DEBT?
CT, By the calculation of the repayment of the loan, doesn't it mean:
1. all the Monies from missions go to CCC and
RM0(ZERO) is left for any other missions work
2. if, only half is taken from the RM7.8M,then by direct conversation of the calculation used, then it will take 65.4yrs or 49yrs, which it's really two generations to repay the loan.
Why isn't the congregation told the implications?
Surely, Faith is not about casting away wisdom to the wind.
Pray, congregation will ponder over each & every decision taken by PG & BOD, and pray for discernment from God before taking a stand.
Dear SP And Wife
My appeal to both of you, it hurts so much to see and know so much of a mistake and repeated hardened attitude from both of you as our leaders whom we looked up to all these years, my appeal to you both, please step back and take early retirement.
To God be the glory if both of you are quick enough to realize all these and seek 'repentance' from the Lord. A mistake can be forgiven but not forgotten like what Sister Seaward said during one of her session in KL Calvary not too long ago.
TAKE 2
The EPF of 12 % ought to be included to reflect the actual and true picture of the STIPENDS ( SALARIES)
Actual will be to RM3.85 million+ *RM431,200 (EPF)=RM4,282,000. This represents 50%!!! of the total tithes and offerings received of RM8.57 million.
In effect, if one study the expenditure carefully, only left-over CRUMBS are used for 'Kingdom's work'.
THE G-LOGIC.
When it comes to stipends, benefits and tittles – “we must be like the secular”. And we should take the best of different kinds of institutions. Corporate companies give good stipend, but no sabbatical. Take their stipend. Teaching institutions give poor stipends but gives sabbaticals. Follow them in giving sabbaticals.
This is what I call the lollipop principle. Take only the sweeties of every secular companies and institutions that are out there.
But when it comes to truth, transparency and governance in giving reports and informing the members about what is REALLY going on –they lay it on us by saying “but, but we are a church”.
Heads I win. Tails I win too!
This attitude has to stop! Let it be so on the 19th June 2009.
PT of BOD
PT inferred that CC can run even if 90% of church funds go into the stipend?? And Calvary Church members voted him in??!! What can I say??!!
I worked with PT in the BOD for a number of years in the 90ties. I respected him then.
THE DEAD SEA
It is called the “Dead Sea” for a very good reason. Nothing can live in it. Why? The Jordan river flows into it but nothing flows out of it. When water flow in that pattern it creates a potent cess-pool.
It is the same with flow of leadership. There is always an entry point and should always be a exit point. If not the church will slowly but surely die.
CT - I salute you for spending your precious time to dissect and analyse the AGM report for us. Time and time again you have been labelled rebels etc but through your persistency to pursue after truth, transpareny and good governance more and more issues surfaced. I do not about the rest, but I wish to thank you that you never wavered - surely the Lord will bless you.
Over the years, all of us are like dumb sheep, contributing our hard earned money to CC, little realising that peanuts go towards the extension of God's kingdom but much go towards upkeeping our pastors who have lived in the lap of luxury.
With things going on I believe there will be more skeletons to be uncovered and if members are wiser, they will not blindly vote for the present leadership to continue serving. Ask - what will the Lord want me to do?
Please attend AGM and exercise your right as members to vote intelligently
To Lion Share,
I took the figure off the audited accounts presented. Based on the actual figures of the total expended on EPF & Sosco, I got 48.4% versus your 50%. 48.4 sens of a ringgit contributed going into stipends(salaries) is simply excessive. Because we are all cheerful givers, the leader considers it alright to help himself, family members and his "cronies" (some if I may add) to the rich buffet-table spread.
I think that sometimes dog foods bills could possibly be charged to the accounting classification "allowance" in which event naturally no EPF/Socso is payable to dogs. Hence, the variance from your method of rational computation.
One needs some creative thinking in order to understand creative accounting practices and terminology used. No offence is intended to the accounting profession here.
Asking for a Truth Commission to be established is not therefore an unreasonable request in the circumstances.
Dear CT ,
thank you for all that you have done and I am behind you all the way and my prayers are with you too ! Your efforts in the lord and for Him will not be in vain !
To Prince Guneratnam, Petrina Guneratnam @ Giaw Foon Foon , Pam & Jim Guneratnam , Chris Guneratnam ...oops nearly forgotten it shud be Lee , right ? Peter Ong , Steven Kum , Timothy Ong , Richard Yun , Raymond Yong , David seah , Shereen Wong and all the Board of deacons ,
Once upon a time I have looked up to and very proud of you as my Pastors and leaders , BUT that was indeed in the past . Now I dont want to be associated anymore with Calvary church and what it stands for .....ALL OF YOU have been a great disappointment !!!!!!!!
Instead of bringing healing and reconciliation to the members of the church , you are causing more division and strife within the Body of Christ and now even causing Ps Ronnie Chin and Ps Kelly to be drawn into your web ! O God have mercy !!
Ps RY Fear God rather than man , if your convictions reveal to you to leave , move on as The Lord is your Provider not PG. He will open doors of ministry for you so all you need is to take the step of faith ....
As of now many are deciding to move on ...as they are not being fed their spiritual food, but for those who feel called to remain , let The Lord direct your steps as you are called to remain to be the check and balance in CC before it deteriorates to the place of No Return !
As for myself , this day 21st june 2009, I am finally closing this Calvary Church chapter of my life and move on as whatever that needs to be done and said have been done and Prince Guneratnam and his dynasty can continue to work at helping him fulfill his dream of becoming the prince of Calvary church and this world ...And if they continue to deceive and lead people astray then The LORD WILL hold them accountable for all their deeds .
To my once beloved Calvary Church ......Goodbye :(
Dear Now is the Time,
It breaks my heart to see another Calvarite leaving CC.
I remember when Dr Christopher Shun wrote to announce his departure, I wrote to him personally (was able to get his email address from his article in Calvary Berita). He left.CC has lost a fine young man who feels the heart-beat of God in his life, ie, mission. God bless Dr. Shun and his family.Am still praying I will see him one day.
You have made your decision. I respect your decision. Though I do not know you but nevertheless I wish to let you know that there is one friend-in-Christ in CC who cares and I pray that whereever you are, our Lord Jesus Christ is with you and your loved ones always.
Praying CC is concerned in keeping its members under its care while also getting new ones to join when everything is put right, when CC is run in the way the Lord meant His church to be.
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