UPDATE
The BOD has issued an announcement on Sunday, 21 December, pertaining to some points raised in Dr Lum's resignation letter. Dr Lum has informed Calvary Today that he will reply to the points raised by the BOD after the Christmas season, ie. the first week of 2009, in the spirit of goodwill and peace to all. So be patient with him and continue to uphold him and his family in prayer.
________________________________________________________
Dr Lum’s interview has evoked much response from members and regular worshippers, from TTG supporters as well as SP supporters,. From the comments posted thus far, it was noted that there are still some disbelieving members. It is perfectly alright to have your own opinion and as Christians, we all believe that truth always prevails in the end.
We also note that there are a few others, hiding behind pseudo or anonymous names, who, for reasons best known to themselves, attempted to cast doubts on Dr Lum’s comments and views. Some comments can be even construed to be attempts to discredit him.
Dr Lum has informed Calvary Today that he does not take offence to those comments and wishes to inform readers that he is prepared to meet anyone before or after the 10.30am service at DH on any Sunday to clarify his comments or answer any questions. To meet him, please email him at XXXXX to make the appointment. However, he has indicated that he will only respond to those who are willing to identify themselves. He will not respond to anonymous persons.
Monday, December 15, 2008
An Interview with Dr Lum Part 2
THIS IS THE 2ND AND FINAL PART OF AN INTERVIEW WITH DR LUM
CT: There was a speculation by someone who posted a comment on the blog that SP earns RM35,000 a month. Is there any truth in the amount speculated? What about the rumour that he gets a huge yearly bonus? Should the SP’s remuneration be made known to the members?
DL: I must clarify that SP alone does not earn that amount but the combined salary with Sis. Petrina's exceeds that amount. SP and his wife gets 13 months salary plus 2 months ex- gratia. Wether that is a considerable amount, I leave it to the members. Yes, my personal opinion is that all pastors’ salaries should be approved by the BOD and made known to the members. In some churches, a member can simply walk into their church office and request to know their pastor's income (stipend). That’s transparency! A pastor must be accountable to his congregation and to God.
CT: On transparency, is there any truth about Missions funds being used to fund SP's children or grandchildren’s education? What about the other pastors and deacons’ children, was any of their education sponsored by the church?
DL: I don’t think any of SP’s children or grandchildren or any pastor's or deacons’ children are sponsored by the church. That is probably just a rumour. But I do know that one of his grandchildren’s airfare and one of the deacons’ son’s airfare was paid by the Missions Dept. This was presented by Pastor Peter Ong to the BOD recently. In fact, SP's grandchild's airfare was approved by the BOD. My opinion is that it is inappropriate to do so. Missions funds are given sacrificially by members to propagate the Gospel and to alleviate suffering of the marginalized, the poor, the widows and the orphans, and NOT for private use.
CT: At the last AGM, someone asked the question whether SP declares the love offerings he receives from the churches where he is invited to minister. His reply was that he is accountable to the BOD. Has he declared such love offerings to the BOD? We know that all the other associate pastors and staff have to declare any gifts received by them to the church.
DL: In my 11 years as a deacon, SP has never once declared to the Board of Deacons the monies received by him in all his local and overseas ministries. But all subordinate pastors and staff are compelled to do so. My seminary lecturer, Dr. Stefan Sos, currently President of the SOS Evangelistic Association in Canada, once shared with the class on the extravagance of many senior pastors in Malaysia and Singapore, who seem to attend nearly every International Christian conference at their church’s expense. When he was the senior pastor of a mega church in Canada, his Board limited him to only 3 conferences a year, to be paid by the church. Beyond this, he had to bear the costs. Any excess funds received by him privately is used as an earnest deposit to help poor Romanian Christians to purchase a home for themselves. He doesn’t keep the love offerings that he receives.
CT: Any other events or matters that you wish to highlight which may be of interest to our members?
DL: The reappointment of SP by the BOD contravenes Rule X1 of the Church Constitution, which demands a ratification by a two-thirds majority vote from the voting members. Failure to ratify has invalidated SP's reappointment.
On the Alliance Bank loan ( RM 35 Million ) for the construction of the Calvary Convention Centre, I had proposed to the BOD that since the loan has not been drawndown, it is imperative that the BOD seek the approval of the congregation for the loan. The BOD must not act independantly as the decision has legal implications. The Church Constitution must be reviewed. Rule XIV must be revoked with immediate effect. Any rule that fails to incorporate or excludes the Body of Christ (the Church members) in Church governance is suspect and theologically imbalanced. The Body of Christ Ministry is of utmost significance.
The Nomination Committee ( for the deacons' nominees ) has failed to act independantly due to the interference of SP in including nominees of his choice after the committee has made their selection. Committee members are then made to sign and endorse SP's nominee (s) as well as theirs, as though the entire selection were theirs. Our current Treasurer was never nominated by the Nomination Committee, who were subjected to fasting and praying for the Holy Spirit's choice of nominees!
I would like to highlight the plight of our Ampang outreach Pastor, Sis. Adeline Koh, a BCM (degree ) graduate. She has been paid by our Church a salary of RM250 a month over the past 7-8 months. Due to this deplorable circumstance, she is forced to live in the store room of the Church! Why bother to impress the world with our missionary giving when we have no love and respect for our own outreach pastors?
I am outraged that Church funds of RM15,000 were used to reimburse SP for his membership fees at the Jackie Chan’s California fitness gym at Mid-Valley. He had claimed and insisted that this was promised to him earlier, by whom, no one knows. None of the deacons could verify his claim.
The love offering collected for Rev. Phil Stevenson, Sr. Pastor of Perth International City Church, Perth, Australia, was never given to him.
The lawyer KK Wong's report and the external forensic auditors’ reports on CIM should be made readily available to all Church members, unconditionally. It is shocking to note that the BOD was given just 20 minutes consecutively to read through both reports! None of the BOD could have a copy of either! It is significant to note that Calvary Church, and not CIM, paid the RM25,000 for the auditors’ report. The lawyer’s report (which was supposed to be M500/hour) was subsequently probono.
It is disheartening to note that the salaries (stipend) of SP's children and their spouses is unknown to the BOD. He evaluates his own family's ( and their spouses' ) appraisal forms (performance ) annually and decides with the deacon for human resource on their salary increments, unknown to the other deacons. There is no existing HR Committee to decide on this. Neither is the grading of their appraisal forms divulged to the other deacons.
CT: Many discussions have been going on about SP’s travel by business class. What are your views on this?
DL: I am not in favour of any minister of God traveling on business class airfares. Business class airfares are 4-5 times the economy class fares. There are no CEOs in the study of Ecclesiology. A pastor has to leave the Church if he aspires to be a CEO. Jesus could have traveled in a chariot and worn affluent apparel but He chose to walk and to ride on a donkey, wore ordinary clothes and mingled with ordinary people. A servant- minister’s lifestyle must be exemplary and not be a stumbling block to others. He must be above reproach.
CT: You may be aware that there is a reasonably big group of our congregation who are unhappy with SP and the lies and half-truths that he has told. Many have left our Church. Do you think it is still tenable for him to continue as the Senior Pastor of Calvary?
DL: No,I don't. I had written to SP to return all monies to the Church and to retire gracefully, with immediate effect. In my opinion, the congregation is hurting and has loss all confidence in him and the BOD. I had also called upon the BOD to resign en bloc, with immediate effect, as they have shown themselves to be ineffective, indecisive and have failed to act independantly. Many current problems could have been prevented had the BOD stood firm. Incidentally, prior to the EGM, lawyer KK Wong ( a Baptist deacon ) had suggested to SP and the BOD that should the congregation members not accept his legal report, the forensic auditors' report and the BOD's explanation, it is best that SP and the BOD resign en-bloc as the congregation has lost their confidence in them!
The declining Church attendance, struggling tithes and offerings collection and low morale is reflective of a weak and deteriorating leadership. A shepherd's heart is always to care, to nurse and to feed his sheep, and not to perpetually beat his sheep with his staff. The good shepherd even smells of his sheep!
CT: There was a speculation by someone who posted a comment on the blog that SP earns RM35,000 a month. Is there any truth in the amount speculated? What about the rumour that he gets a huge yearly bonus? Should the SP’s remuneration be made known to the members?
DL: I must clarify that SP alone does not earn that amount but the combined salary with Sis. Petrina's exceeds that amount. SP and his wife gets 13 months salary plus 2 months ex- gratia. Wether that is a considerable amount, I leave it to the members. Yes, my personal opinion is that all pastors’ salaries should be approved by the BOD and made known to the members. In some churches, a member can simply walk into their church office and request to know their pastor's income (stipend). That’s transparency! A pastor must be accountable to his congregation and to God.
CT: On transparency, is there any truth about Missions funds being used to fund SP's children or grandchildren’s education? What about the other pastors and deacons’ children, was any of their education sponsored by the church?
DL: I don’t think any of SP’s children or grandchildren or any pastor's or deacons’ children are sponsored by the church. That is probably just a rumour. But I do know that one of his grandchildren’s airfare and one of the deacons’ son’s airfare was paid by the Missions Dept. This was presented by Pastor Peter Ong to the BOD recently. In fact, SP's grandchild's airfare was approved by the BOD. My opinion is that it is inappropriate to do so. Missions funds are given sacrificially by members to propagate the Gospel and to alleviate suffering of the marginalized, the poor, the widows and the orphans, and NOT for private use.
CT: At the last AGM, someone asked the question whether SP declares the love offerings he receives from the churches where he is invited to minister. His reply was that he is accountable to the BOD. Has he declared such love offerings to the BOD? We know that all the other associate pastors and staff have to declare any gifts received by them to the church.
DL: In my 11 years as a deacon, SP has never once declared to the Board of Deacons the monies received by him in all his local and overseas ministries. But all subordinate pastors and staff are compelled to do so. My seminary lecturer, Dr. Stefan Sos, currently President of the SOS Evangelistic Association in Canada, once shared with the class on the extravagance of many senior pastors in Malaysia and Singapore, who seem to attend nearly every International Christian conference at their church’s expense. When he was the senior pastor of a mega church in Canada, his Board limited him to only 3 conferences a year, to be paid by the church. Beyond this, he had to bear the costs. Any excess funds received by him privately is used as an earnest deposit to help poor Romanian Christians to purchase a home for themselves. He doesn’t keep the love offerings that he receives.
CT: Any other events or matters that you wish to highlight which may be of interest to our members?
DL: The reappointment of SP by the BOD contravenes Rule X1 of the Church Constitution, which demands a ratification by a two-thirds majority vote from the voting members. Failure to ratify has invalidated SP's reappointment.
On the Alliance Bank loan ( RM 35 Million ) for the construction of the Calvary Convention Centre, I had proposed to the BOD that since the loan has not been drawndown, it is imperative that the BOD seek the approval of the congregation for the loan. The BOD must not act independantly as the decision has legal implications. The Church Constitution must be reviewed. Rule XIV must be revoked with immediate effect. Any rule that fails to incorporate or excludes the Body of Christ (the Church members) in Church governance is suspect and theologically imbalanced. The Body of Christ Ministry is of utmost significance.
The Nomination Committee ( for the deacons' nominees ) has failed to act independantly due to the interference of SP in including nominees of his choice after the committee has made their selection. Committee members are then made to sign and endorse SP's nominee (s) as well as theirs, as though the entire selection were theirs. Our current Treasurer was never nominated by the Nomination Committee, who were subjected to fasting and praying for the Holy Spirit's choice of nominees!
I would like to highlight the plight of our Ampang outreach Pastor, Sis. Adeline Koh, a BCM (degree ) graduate. She has been paid by our Church a salary of RM250 a month over the past 7-8 months. Due to this deplorable circumstance, she is forced to live in the store room of the Church! Why bother to impress the world with our missionary giving when we have no love and respect for our own outreach pastors?
I am outraged that Church funds of RM15,000 were used to reimburse SP for his membership fees at the Jackie Chan’s California fitness gym at Mid-Valley. He had claimed and insisted that this was promised to him earlier, by whom, no one knows. None of the deacons could verify his claim.
The love offering collected for Rev. Phil Stevenson, Sr. Pastor of Perth International City Church, Perth, Australia, was never given to him.
The lawyer KK Wong's report and the external forensic auditors’ reports on CIM should be made readily available to all Church members, unconditionally. It is shocking to note that the BOD was given just 20 minutes consecutively to read through both reports! None of the BOD could have a copy of either! It is significant to note that Calvary Church, and not CIM, paid the RM25,000 for the auditors’ report. The lawyer’s report (which was supposed to be M500/hour) was subsequently probono.
It is disheartening to note that the salaries (stipend) of SP's children and their spouses is unknown to the BOD. He evaluates his own family's ( and their spouses' ) appraisal forms (performance ) annually and decides with the deacon for human resource on their salary increments, unknown to the other deacons. There is no existing HR Committee to decide on this. Neither is the grading of their appraisal forms divulged to the other deacons.
CT: Many discussions have been going on about SP’s travel by business class. What are your views on this?
DL: I am not in favour of any minister of God traveling on business class airfares. Business class airfares are 4-5 times the economy class fares. There are no CEOs in the study of Ecclesiology. A pastor has to leave the Church if he aspires to be a CEO. Jesus could have traveled in a chariot and worn affluent apparel but He chose to walk and to ride on a donkey, wore ordinary clothes and mingled with ordinary people. A servant- minister’s lifestyle must be exemplary and not be a stumbling block to others. He must be above reproach.
CT: You may be aware that there is a reasonably big group of our congregation who are unhappy with SP and the lies and half-truths that he has told. Many have left our Church. Do you think it is still tenable for him to continue as the Senior Pastor of Calvary?
DL: No,I don't. I had written to SP to return all monies to the Church and to retire gracefully, with immediate effect. In my opinion, the congregation is hurting and has loss all confidence in him and the BOD. I had also called upon the BOD to resign en bloc, with immediate effect, as they have shown themselves to be ineffective, indecisive and have failed to act independantly. Many current problems could have been prevented had the BOD stood firm. Incidentally, prior to the EGM, lawyer KK Wong ( a Baptist deacon ) had suggested to SP and the BOD that should the congregation members not accept his legal report, the forensic auditors' report and the BOD's explanation, it is best that SP and the BOD resign en-bloc as the congregation has lost their confidence in them!
The declining Church attendance, struggling tithes and offerings collection and low morale is reflective of a weak and deteriorating leadership. A shepherd's heart is always to care, to nurse and to feed his sheep, and not to perpetually beat his sheep with his staff. The good shepherd even smells of his sheep!
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
An Interview With Dr. Lum - Part 1
THIS IS PART 1 OF AN INTERVIEW BY CALVARY TODAY WITH DR LUM. THE FINAL PART 2 WILL BE PUBLISHED LATER.
CT: Firstly, we would like to congratulate you on your graduation with a Masters in Divinity. With your busy schedule as a full time doctor and your various responsibilities in ministry and as a deacon of the church, you have proven that nothing is impossible with God.
DL: Thank you. Yes, To God be the Glory.
CT: My first question – Did you resign voluntarily or were you asked to resign?
DL: I resigned voluntarily.
CT: Why did you resign?
DL: It was a difficult decision to make. There were 22 issues raised in my resignation letter. Over the last seven years, I’ve been struggling in my spirit as to whether to relinquish my position as a deacon, as I have been disturbed over these issues.
CT: What are these issues? Can you elaborate?
DL: Let’s just say issues which are contrary to what TTG stands for. I’m referring to truth, transparency and good governance.
CT: Any examples? Maybe we’ll ask you specific questions, easier for you. We have heard so much about Board of Deacons minutes being taken back by the Secretary after each meeting and none of the deacons are allowed to keep any of the minutes. Is that true?
DL; That is absolutely true. It’s something that I’ve voiced out to SP but without success. This has been the practice for years. I mean, who’s to say that the minutes won’t be tampered with? In fact, at one instance, the Secretary mentioned to the Board that the minutes appeared to have been altered and SP admitted that he had altered it. That’s an area I’m not comfortable with.
CT: Are the deacons allowed to freely express their opinions at the Board meetings?
DL: We can express our opinions, but at the end of the day, his views generally supercedes those of the Board. As you are aware, abstentions and objections are unrecorded in the minutes and may not be well received too.Perhaps, this may be the reason why many of the deacons decide to remain silent.
For example, when I raised the crucial question of " whether it would please our Lord for a freemason to build the Sanctuary of God ( CCC )," and handed each deacon a copy of the gods worshipped by freemasons and a copy of the Position Papers of the Assemblies of God, USA ( which calls freemasonry a " secret society " and advises church adherents worldwide not to be associated with it ), SP was furious and threatened to disallow me from distributing such material in future without his prior consent. None of the deacons spoke up on this issue, except former deacon Lawrence Mak. We both suggested to dismiss the freemason, with costs. However, SP refused and was adamant in engaging him to build the CCC. This was at the inception when no contract was drawn up yet.
CT: Do you think that there is transparency in all the board deliberations and decisions?
DL: No, I don't. For example, I was disappointed that vital information was withheld from our lawyer, Mr. KK Wong. Three days prior to the EGM, when I questioned the lawyer on the conflict of interests and the designated offerings, he replied before the BOD, the external forensic auditors, Sis. Petrina and SP that he was NOT furnished any information on the designated offerings. By then, he had already submitted his report to our secretary, Sis. Bernadette. I had told him before everyone else present that his report was therefore incomplete and invalid.
CT: Are all board meetings minuted?
DL: Yes, but I’m disappointed that abstentions and objections to certain proposals are not minuted, so it appears that the entire board is unanimous in those decisions.
CT: We heard that in recent times, there were occasions when you were not invited for board meetings or were ‘conveniently’ not informed of meetings. Is this true?
DL: Yes. Before the recent EGM, I was not notified and had been excluded from certain crucial
Board of Deacons meetings, e.g. the initial meeting with lawyer Mr KK Wong and meetings with Rev. Guynes.
CT: One of our church trustees who was on the Missions Committee for a number of years, said that he never knew of the transfer of funds of RM200k per year over several years. What are your thoughts on this?
DL: I’m not surprised.
CT: At the recent EGM, the members were told that the BOD had approved the transfer of a total of RM1.9M to CIM between 2002 and 2007. Were you aware of the BOD approval or that there were board resolutions approving the same?
DL: Honestly, I can’t remember if the Board had approved those transfers, the reason being that the deacons are not allowed to keep the minutes; so there’s no way we can refer to past minutes to check if it is true that the Board gave the approval. The minutes which are circulated to us, explanatory accounts data and our personal notes are taken back after meetings and are shredded without our knowledge. All approved minutes are signed only by the Secretary, to the exclusion of the other deacons.
Anyway, I find it difficult to comprehend the need to give CIM RM200,000 annually from the Missions Dept for SP’s travel expenditure when in actual fact, his past expenditure ranged between RM50K to RM80K. This transfer of funds should have been made known to the congregation and their approval sought, as the quantum is large. Evangelism in the 1st century Church was in the marketplace - out where the sinners are, and not in Christian conferences where almost everyone is a believer! It defeats the purpose of Missions funds.
CT: We heard some rumours that besides the church paying for Dr Guyne’s expenses to come here to chair the recent EGM, the church also gave him a big love gift, something like S$10,000. Is this true? Was it approved by the deacons?
DL: Yes, it’s true. SP made the decision on his own accord and then after 2 months, he requested the BOD to ratify this gift of US$10,000 to Rev Guynes. I was appalled by the fact that SP gave Rev Guynes this gift without prior approval or discussion with the BOD.
This amount, together with his other expenses (airfare, accommodation, etc.) and the external auditors’ fees of RM25,000, has drained the Church of more than RM80,000 for holding the EGM. Thank God for lawyer, K.K. Wong who offered his services probono.
The EGM was absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for, had SP taken heed of the advice given by our internal auditor, Lee Tuck Heng, to release the accounts of CIM and the extended ministries to the congregation members to view.
CT: So, did the Board ratify the payment?
DL: Yes, they did.
CT: SP has been preaching out of context and has used the pulpit to hit out at the TTG group in recent times. For example, during a 10.30am service at DH, he told members who think that he is preaching a prosperity gospel to go and jump into the lake. Didn’t the BOD advise him against this type of behaviour?
DL: I’m not sure about the other deacons but I have personally spoken to SP, as well as before the BOD, over the frequent caustic remarks made in sermons over the pulpit. These words are unbecoming of a servant-minister of God and serves only to inject anger, hatred, bitterness and division into the congregation. Unkind and malicious words have been spoken over the pulpit: “ungrateful; jump into the lake; you have an independant spirit; if you don’t give, you stink; are you a snake or a sheep?; go to another church; take another bus; the curse of leprosy followed; etc.”
The goal of preaching is to bring wholesome healing and Christ-likeness to a hurting Congregation and not to cause division in the Church. There must be certain ministerial ethics in the delivery of sermons. There is no place for faulty exegesis, loaded language and name calling, emotional manipulation,misrepresentation and partial truths.
CT: Our church website says that we have 10,000 members/worshipers. This is also highlighted in the newspapers recently. Isn’t the BOD aware of this misleading information that is being disseminated by the church? If so, why hasn't the board taken steps to rectify
the misinformation?
DL: Calvary Church does not have 10,000 worshipers. The official figure ( inclusive of outreach churches ) reported during the AGMs is between 2600-2700. For your information, this figure includes new born babies and toddlers too! Even if we were to include our previous independant outreach churches, both local and abroad, the conservative figure is less than 5,000. The BOD had queried SP on this matter but sadly, he denies that it is less than 10,000. The figure seems to have escalated from 8,000 to 10,000.
Misrepresentation by projecting an inflated figure is a serious offence. This matter should be referred to the Ethical Committee of the AG General Council.
CT: Firstly, we would like to congratulate you on your graduation with a Masters in Divinity. With your busy schedule as a full time doctor and your various responsibilities in ministry and as a deacon of the church, you have proven that nothing is impossible with God.
DL: Thank you. Yes, To God be the Glory.
CT: My first question – Did you resign voluntarily or were you asked to resign?
DL: I resigned voluntarily.
CT: Why did you resign?
DL: It was a difficult decision to make. There were 22 issues raised in my resignation letter. Over the last seven years, I’ve been struggling in my spirit as to whether to relinquish my position as a deacon, as I have been disturbed over these issues.
CT: What are these issues? Can you elaborate?
DL: Let’s just say issues which are contrary to what TTG stands for. I’m referring to truth, transparency and good governance.
CT: Any examples? Maybe we’ll ask you specific questions, easier for you. We have heard so much about Board of Deacons minutes being taken back by the Secretary after each meeting and none of the deacons are allowed to keep any of the minutes. Is that true?
DL; That is absolutely true. It’s something that I’ve voiced out to SP but without success. This has been the practice for years. I mean, who’s to say that the minutes won’t be tampered with? In fact, at one instance, the Secretary mentioned to the Board that the minutes appeared to have been altered and SP admitted that he had altered it. That’s an area I’m not comfortable with.
CT: Are the deacons allowed to freely express their opinions at the Board meetings?
DL: We can express our opinions, but at the end of the day, his views generally supercedes those of the Board. As you are aware, abstentions and objections are unrecorded in the minutes and may not be well received too.Perhaps, this may be the reason why many of the deacons decide to remain silent.
For example, when I raised the crucial question of " whether it would please our Lord for a freemason to build the Sanctuary of God ( CCC )," and handed each deacon a copy of the gods worshipped by freemasons and a copy of the Position Papers of the Assemblies of God, USA ( which calls freemasonry a " secret society " and advises church adherents worldwide not to be associated with it ), SP was furious and threatened to disallow me from distributing such material in future without his prior consent. None of the deacons spoke up on this issue, except former deacon Lawrence Mak. We both suggested to dismiss the freemason, with costs. However, SP refused and was adamant in engaging him to build the CCC. This was at the inception when no contract was drawn up yet.
CT: Do you think that there is transparency in all the board deliberations and decisions?
DL: No, I don't. For example, I was disappointed that vital information was withheld from our lawyer, Mr. KK Wong. Three days prior to the EGM, when I questioned the lawyer on the conflict of interests and the designated offerings, he replied before the BOD, the external forensic auditors, Sis. Petrina and SP that he was NOT furnished any information on the designated offerings. By then, he had already submitted his report to our secretary, Sis. Bernadette. I had told him before everyone else present that his report was therefore incomplete and invalid.
CT: Are all board meetings minuted?
DL: Yes, but I’m disappointed that abstentions and objections to certain proposals are not minuted, so it appears that the entire board is unanimous in those decisions.
CT: We heard that in recent times, there were occasions when you were not invited for board meetings or were ‘conveniently’ not informed of meetings. Is this true?
DL: Yes. Before the recent EGM, I was not notified and had been excluded from certain crucial
Board of Deacons meetings, e.g. the initial meeting with lawyer Mr KK Wong and meetings with Rev. Guynes.
CT: One of our church trustees who was on the Missions Committee for a number of years, said that he never knew of the transfer of funds of RM200k per year over several years. What are your thoughts on this?
DL: I’m not surprised.
CT: At the recent EGM, the members were told that the BOD had approved the transfer of a total of RM1.9M to CIM between 2002 and 2007. Were you aware of the BOD approval or that there were board resolutions approving the same?
DL: Honestly, I can’t remember if the Board had approved those transfers, the reason being that the deacons are not allowed to keep the minutes; so there’s no way we can refer to past minutes to check if it is true that the Board gave the approval. The minutes which are circulated to us, explanatory accounts data and our personal notes are taken back after meetings and are shredded without our knowledge. All approved minutes are signed only by the Secretary, to the exclusion of the other deacons.
Anyway, I find it difficult to comprehend the need to give CIM RM200,000 annually from the Missions Dept for SP’s travel expenditure when in actual fact, his past expenditure ranged between RM50K to RM80K. This transfer of funds should have been made known to the congregation and their approval sought, as the quantum is large. Evangelism in the 1st century Church was in the marketplace - out where the sinners are, and not in Christian conferences where almost everyone is a believer! It defeats the purpose of Missions funds.
CT: We heard some rumours that besides the church paying for Dr Guyne’s expenses to come here to chair the recent EGM, the church also gave him a big love gift, something like S$10,000. Is this true? Was it approved by the deacons?
DL: Yes, it’s true. SP made the decision on his own accord and then after 2 months, he requested the BOD to ratify this gift of US$10,000 to Rev Guynes. I was appalled by the fact that SP gave Rev Guynes this gift without prior approval or discussion with the BOD.
This amount, together with his other expenses (airfare, accommodation, etc.) and the external auditors’ fees of RM25,000, has drained the Church of more than RM80,000 for holding the EGM. Thank God for lawyer, K.K. Wong who offered his services probono.
The EGM was absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for, had SP taken heed of the advice given by our internal auditor, Lee Tuck Heng, to release the accounts of CIM and the extended ministries to the congregation members to view.
CT: So, did the Board ratify the payment?
DL: Yes, they did.
CT: SP has been preaching out of context and has used the pulpit to hit out at the TTG group in recent times. For example, during a 10.30am service at DH, he told members who think that he is preaching a prosperity gospel to go and jump into the lake. Didn’t the BOD advise him against this type of behaviour?
DL: I’m not sure about the other deacons but I have personally spoken to SP, as well as before the BOD, over the frequent caustic remarks made in sermons over the pulpit. These words are unbecoming of a servant-minister of God and serves only to inject anger, hatred, bitterness and division into the congregation. Unkind and malicious words have been spoken over the pulpit: “ungrateful; jump into the lake; you have an independant spirit; if you don’t give, you stink; are you a snake or a sheep?; go to another church; take another bus; the curse of leprosy followed; etc.”
The goal of preaching is to bring wholesome healing and Christ-likeness to a hurting Congregation and not to cause division in the Church. There must be certain ministerial ethics in the delivery of sermons. There is no place for faulty exegesis, loaded language and name calling, emotional manipulation,misrepresentation and partial truths.
CT: Our church website says that we have 10,000 members/worshipers. This is also highlighted in the newspapers recently. Isn’t the BOD aware of this misleading information that is being disseminated by the church? If so, why hasn't the board taken steps to rectify
the misinformation?
DL: Calvary Church does not have 10,000 worshipers. The official figure ( inclusive of outreach churches ) reported during the AGMs is between 2600-2700. For your information, this figure includes new born babies and toddlers too! Even if we were to include our previous independant outreach churches, both local and abroad, the conservative figure is less than 5,000. The BOD had queried SP on this matter but sadly, he denies that it is less than 10,000. The figure seems to have escalated from 8,000 to 10,000.
Misrepresentation by projecting an inflated figure is a serious offence. This matter should be referred to the Ethical Committee of the AG General Council.
Thursday, December 4, 2008
CIM RETURNS CHURCH MONEY
In a “surprising” turn of events, Calvary International Ministries, the personal ministry of Pastor Prince Guneratnam, announced last Saturday that it is returning all the balance money in its bank account amounting to RM1.05 million back to the Missions Dept of Calvary Church. The amount was the balance remaining from the RM1.3 million that was transferred from the Missions Dept to CIM between 2002 and 2007 without the knowledge or approval of the church members. This “change of heart” is a complete turnaround of the adamant attitude that we saw in Pastor Prince during the recent EGM.
The members were informed for the first time during the recent EGM in August 2008 that the Board of Deacons had previously ratified and endorsed the monetary gift to CIM. Members were riled by the total lack of transparency and proper governance in the whole saga which had led to a split in the church. Our God is a faithful God and once again, He has answered our prayers. He has heard the cries of all those who have stood up for truth and transparency.
The deacons have also at last Saturday’s closed door meetings for church leaders, announced the following:-
1. CARED, which is a subsidiary of CIM has been transferred to our Church as an extended ministry. All the balance money in CARED’s bank account amounting to about RM400,000 has been transferred to a new CARED bank account under the Church. This money is the balance remaining from the RM576,961 that was transferred from the Missions Dept to CIM/CARED without members’ approval or knowledge in 2006 and 2007.
2. A Constitutional Review committee comprising of Bro Philip Tan, Sis Bernadette, Sis Helen Gan, Bro Dennis Xavier, and Bro Ong Keng Hock has been formed to undertake the review of the sections of our Church Constitution relating to financial provisions and nomination process for nomination committee, deacons and auditors. This committee does not have any representation from the TTG Group. The limited scope of the review has conveniently left out the main concern of all the Church members which relates to the office and authority of the Senior Pastor. This exclusion of one of the real issues confronting the church has already gotten a stamp of failure on the whole exercise from the start. It is certainly not what the members want.
3. The formation of the Financial Governance Committee is also another joke. The committee comprises Deacon Edward Rajasingam, Deacon Han, Bro Lee Tuck Heng (ex-church auditor), Bro Tam Kok Meng (present church auditor), Bro Au Weng Sang and Bro Ding Lai Hong. With the inclusion of 2 deacons and the previous church auditor, all of whom had been ignorant or overlooked the many accounting issues as well as the unauthorized transfer of funds from missions Dept to CIM, we wonder how effective this committee can be?
Both Senior Pastor and Sis Petrina shared at Saturday’s meeting. Here are some NOTE WORTHY STATEMENTS made by them during the meeting.
He said:
#1.… the church celebrated my 30 years celebration and in that celebration, we launched CIM and that is how CIM came to be … The church gave a gift of RM30,000-00 and everybody was glad and happy. …
#2.…Before that was known as Sr Pastor’s Overseas Travel and 30 years in celebration then gave it a name called CIM – it was a personal ministry. Personal in a sense it wasn’t Pas. Steven doing it, it wasn’t Pas. Peter doing it. It was me that was doing it so that’s where it was said that it was to be a personal ministry of Pas. Prince Guneratnam.
#3.…And also when it (CIM) was formed, it was also expressed that it will come a time…when the church gets big enough, …The Lord wants to move me into full-time to evangelistic … Then I will move into evangelistic … I will be changing my job, changing my role, changing my position, no more pastoring, now as an evangelist. You don’t call that retirement. You don’t retire. Just change of job. It’s changing your responsibility so CIM gave my overseas missionary ministry a structure, a structure to what I was doing.
#4.… CIM will release to Calvary Church all existing funds in CIM books, at this stage, a total sum of RM1,055,550-68, which means CIM now has a zero balance. So we’re going to return all that sum of money.
#5.… Money has never been our issue.
She said:
#6.… As Sr Pastor has said, “to give structure to a ministry that has been well accepted internationally and after 30 years. …. giving it a structure will help in the funding from people like Dr Cho and Pastors and many friends, from Japan …and people gave at the launch. This was in September 2002.
#7.… In 2003, we bought land for the CCC, … CCC then became our top priority. We must put CIM aside and not talk about CIM and people supporting this ministry, because we want everyone, including our friends, our contacts, to support CCC and we want to raise funds for CIM will be after CCC has been built…our desire was to channel all funds for CCC… and as some of you know, our good friend Dr. Cho gave two million and it could come to CIM…Pas. Robert and church also gave two million and some others…
#8.…So you say, “How did Missions get involved in giving to the seed fund?” Missions has always supported SP overseas ministry and God in the meantime, blessed our Missions and Faith Promise abundantly and since the Church has EXCESS fund, more money. After meeting all the commitment, there was still MORE money left from (for?) missions and since CIM is a missionary endeavor to missionary in nature, evangelistic crusade, a certain amount was appointed to CIM seed fund. Missions money can only be used for Missions.
#9.… Missions money has never been brought back to the church to be said whether it can be appointed or not. …So certain amount of money was given to CIM approved by the Missions Board as well as the Deacons. It was not something that we transfer. It was never like this. So that’s why Sr Pastor and I were very comfortable to receive this amount of money given to CIM because it was for ministry. …It was for crusades and fall in line with the criteria of money given to missions. ... And since we give hundreds to thousands….you heard, four million and we don’t come back to church for approval to give money for …Dr. Guynes ministry or for Peter Wagner who built the Prayer Tower….the Indian Pastor, David Mohan….
#10.… it never dawn on us and at the same time, you must know, Sr Pastor and I, all we know is ministry. We have not come from the secular world. I know nothing about CBT and I know nothing about this transfer of funds. Our thinking has always been spiritual. … so we accept it very gratefully and happily, as we put CCC first and not put the ministry that was personal, …and God in turn gave back to CIM …
#11.… When this perception was created, this misinterpretation, we immediately thought of giving back the money.
#12.... the Board Of Deacons never thought about having to come back to the church for approval, whether the amount can be given to the SP’s ministry/CIM. Maybe we took for granted that everybody would be so happy that we can support the SP’s ministry so and since we never have to come back to the church at large to say whether this money can be given or not. It was already designated for missions, so you know, that was it.
#13.…First of all, we needed to clear the allegations that it was CBT and pastor has said how the Board was brought in and it, that has been cleared. Now after the EGM, now we will return the money and it has been given back … because of certain allegations, it has become ugly and since God is always our source and if it will bring about peace and settlement, we are very happy.
#14.…Why call it Calvary International Ministry and since this is a personal ministry, why don’t call it Prince Guneratnam Ministry?... For all of you who know pastor, even a little, you know that Sr Pastor is a very reserved, shy person. He doesn’t talk about himself, neither does he talk about our family…. By nature he is always reserve…and so giving it Prince Guneratnam Ministry will bring a lot of attention to himself and he doesn’t want that. So that is the reason.
#15… Another reason why we call it Calvary International Ministry - our love and our recognition of Calvary Church. We are so much a part of Calvary Church. We have given the best of our years…35 years…Calvary Church will always be apart of us even when we go to heaven, I believe, when we die lah ah and we will, I hope, be apart of some of you. It was recognition affection that we call it Calvary International Ministry.
#16.… It was never meant to deceive people to give money to us using Calvary’s name. By the way, people give money to individuals they can trust. They don’t give to church name and say ……
#17.… Every sen has been accounted for by the Certified independent audit, accountant. All money has been returned. There is zero balance. The matter is considered closed, I hope.
Well, now that all the balance money in CIM has been transferred back to the Church Missions Dept (whether voluntarily or involuntarily, we leave it to you to decide), we sincerely hope that Pastor Prince and his dear wife will do the next right thing and that is, accept full responsibility for the crisis that the church is in and change job to do what has been in their hearts all these years and become evangelists.
God Bless.
The members were informed for the first time during the recent EGM in August 2008 that the Board of Deacons had previously ratified and endorsed the monetary gift to CIM. Members were riled by the total lack of transparency and proper governance in the whole saga which had led to a split in the church. Our God is a faithful God and once again, He has answered our prayers. He has heard the cries of all those who have stood up for truth and transparency.
The deacons have also at last Saturday’s closed door meetings for church leaders, announced the following:-
1. CARED, which is a subsidiary of CIM has been transferred to our Church as an extended ministry. All the balance money in CARED’s bank account amounting to about RM400,000 has been transferred to a new CARED bank account under the Church. This money is the balance remaining from the RM576,961 that was transferred from the Missions Dept to CIM/CARED without members’ approval or knowledge in 2006 and 2007.
2. A Constitutional Review committee comprising of Bro Philip Tan, Sis Bernadette, Sis Helen Gan, Bro Dennis Xavier, and Bro Ong Keng Hock has been formed to undertake the review of the sections of our Church Constitution relating to financial provisions and nomination process for nomination committee, deacons and auditors. This committee does not have any representation from the TTG Group. The limited scope of the review has conveniently left out the main concern of all the Church members which relates to the office and authority of the Senior Pastor. This exclusion of one of the real issues confronting the church has already gotten a stamp of failure on the whole exercise from the start. It is certainly not what the members want.
3. The formation of the Financial Governance Committee is also another joke. The committee comprises Deacon Edward Rajasingam, Deacon Han, Bro Lee Tuck Heng (ex-church auditor), Bro Tam Kok Meng (present church auditor), Bro Au Weng Sang and Bro Ding Lai Hong. With the inclusion of 2 deacons and the previous church auditor, all of whom had been ignorant or overlooked the many accounting issues as well as the unauthorized transfer of funds from missions Dept to CIM, we wonder how effective this committee can be?
Both Senior Pastor and Sis Petrina shared at Saturday’s meeting. Here are some NOTE WORTHY STATEMENTS made by them during the meeting.
He said:
#1.… the church celebrated my 30 years celebration and in that celebration, we launched CIM and that is how CIM came to be … The church gave a gift of RM30,000-00 and everybody was glad and happy. …
#2.…Before that was known as Sr Pastor’s Overseas Travel and 30 years in celebration then gave it a name called CIM – it was a personal ministry. Personal in a sense it wasn’t Pas. Steven doing it, it wasn’t Pas. Peter doing it. It was me that was doing it so that’s where it was said that it was to be a personal ministry of Pas. Prince Guneratnam.
#3.…And also when it (CIM) was formed, it was also expressed that it will come a time…when the church gets big enough, …The Lord wants to move me into full-time to evangelistic … Then I will move into evangelistic … I will be changing my job, changing my role, changing my position, no more pastoring, now as an evangelist. You don’t call that retirement. You don’t retire. Just change of job. It’s changing your responsibility so CIM gave my overseas missionary ministry a structure, a structure to what I was doing.
#4.… CIM will release to Calvary Church all existing funds in CIM books, at this stage, a total sum of RM1,055,550-68, which means CIM now has a zero balance. So we’re going to return all that sum of money.
#5.… Money has never been our issue.
She said:
#6.… As Sr Pastor has said, “to give structure to a ministry that has been well accepted internationally and after 30 years. …. giving it a structure will help in the funding from people like Dr Cho and Pastors and many friends, from Japan …and people gave at the launch. This was in September 2002.
#7.… In 2003, we bought land for the CCC, … CCC then became our top priority. We must put CIM aside and not talk about CIM and people supporting this ministry, because we want everyone, including our friends, our contacts, to support CCC and we want to raise funds for CIM will be after CCC has been built…our desire was to channel all funds for CCC… and as some of you know, our good friend Dr. Cho gave two million and it could come to CIM…Pas. Robert and church also gave two million and some others…
#8.…So you say, “How did Missions get involved in giving to the seed fund?” Missions has always supported SP overseas ministry and God in the meantime, blessed our Missions and Faith Promise abundantly and since the Church has EXCESS fund, more money. After meeting all the commitment, there was still MORE money left from (for?) missions and since CIM is a missionary endeavor to missionary in nature, evangelistic crusade, a certain amount was appointed to CIM seed fund. Missions money can only be used for Missions.
#9.… Missions money has never been brought back to the church to be said whether it can be appointed or not. …So certain amount of money was given to CIM approved by the Missions Board as well as the Deacons. It was not something that we transfer. It was never like this. So that’s why Sr Pastor and I were very comfortable to receive this amount of money given to CIM because it was for ministry. …It was for crusades and fall in line with the criteria of money given to missions. ... And since we give hundreds to thousands….you heard, four million and we don’t come back to church for approval to give money for …Dr. Guynes ministry or for Peter Wagner who built the Prayer Tower….the Indian Pastor, David Mohan….
#10.… it never dawn on us and at the same time, you must know, Sr Pastor and I, all we know is ministry. We have not come from the secular world. I know nothing about CBT and I know nothing about this transfer of funds. Our thinking has always been spiritual. … so we accept it very gratefully and happily, as we put CCC first and not put the ministry that was personal, …and God in turn gave back to CIM …
#11.… When this perception was created, this misinterpretation, we immediately thought of giving back the money.
#12.... the Board Of Deacons never thought about having to come back to the church for approval, whether the amount can be given to the SP’s ministry/CIM. Maybe we took for granted that everybody would be so happy that we can support the SP’s ministry so and since we never have to come back to the church at large to say whether this money can be given or not. It was already designated for missions, so you know, that was it.
#13.…First of all, we needed to clear the allegations that it was CBT and pastor has said how the Board was brought in and it, that has been cleared. Now after the EGM, now we will return the money and it has been given back … because of certain allegations, it has become ugly and since God is always our source and if it will bring about peace and settlement, we are very happy.
#14.…Why call it Calvary International Ministry and since this is a personal ministry, why don’t call it Prince Guneratnam Ministry?... For all of you who know pastor, even a little, you know that Sr Pastor is a very reserved, shy person. He doesn’t talk about himself, neither does he talk about our family…. By nature he is always reserve…and so giving it Prince Guneratnam Ministry will bring a lot of attention to himself and he doesn’t want that. So that is the reason.
#15… Another reason why we call it Calvary International Ministry - our love and our recognition of Calvary Church. We are so much a part of Calvary Church. We have given the best of our years…35 years…Calvary Church will always be apart of us even when we go to heaven, I believe, when we die lah ah and we will, I hope, be apart of some of you. It was recognition affection that we call it Calvary International Ministry.
#16.… It was never meant to deceive people to give money to us using Calvary’s name. By the way, people give money to individuals they can trust. They don’t give to church name and say ……
#17.… Every sen has been accounted for by the Certified independent audit, accountant. All money has been returned. There is zero balance. The matter is considered closed, I hope.
Well, now that all the balance money in CIM has been transferred back to the Church Missions Dept (whether voluntarily or involuntarily, we leave it to you to decide), we sincerely hope that Pastor Prince and his dear wife will do the next right thing and that is, accept full responsibility for the crisis that the church is in and change job to do what has been in their hearts all these years and become evangelists.
God Bless.
