Many Calvarites will remember the infamous theatrical alabaster jar-breaking act of Senior Pastor Prince (PG) a few years ago on Easter Sunday at Stadium Putra.
That Sunday was the launch of a major fund-raising campaign for the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) project and PG wanted to impress the congregation with his “sacrificial” pledge of 9 months of his salary towards the CCC building fund. In an unashamed display of haughtiness, he took an alabaster jar and broke it to symbolize his “sacrificial” giving, trying to replicate the sacrificial act of the woman in the Bible who broke her alabaster jar of expensive perfume and poured it on Jesus’ head.
Many in the crowd in the stadium applauded PG’s act of sacrifice but little did they realize that his sacrifice of 9 months of salary will not affect him much. His dear wife, Sis Petrina was still drawing a big monthly salary of RM10,000 which is more than what senior pastors in other similar-size churches earn. For two persons, this amount of salary is more than adequate to live on, considering that they have no financial commitments and their cars’ petrol and maintenance costs are all taken care of by the Church. There are many members who feed their families and pay their housing and car loans and everything else on much less income.
What the members also do not know was what took place subsequently in the Church office. Because PG sacrificed his salary for 9 months, the Church staff were encouraged to buy lunch for him as often as they could!
Towards the end of that year, the Board of Deacons, in “recognition of PG’s great sacrifice” took a special Christmas love offering from the congregation to bless him. And like a big hero, PG “humbly” accepted it and immediately announced that he is giving the entire love offering to CCC. The entire episode is worthy of a grammy award.
Now, with that background story and in the light of the latest fund-raising campaign, many Calvarites are watching to see what “sacrificial” advance PG will be giving this time.
Clip 1 : Ask and ask big
At the combined services in Sime Darby Convention Centre two Sundays ago, PG announced that his CCC committee members and the Deacons have made advances totaling RM3 million to the CCC. While this may appear to be a large amount, we must take cognizance of the fact that several of the committee members and deacons are millionaires with a few owning fairly large multi-million dollar businesses. Therefore, RM3 million advances from this group is commendable but nothing to shout about. However, the interesting thing to note about this announcement is that PG, himself a millionaire, did not state whether he made any advance and if he did, how much.
Clip 2 : Tremendous sacrifice (?)
The fact that PG is a millionaire is undeniable. His local properties alone are worth at least RM6 to 7 million. The value of his local assets can be easily quantified. His present 3-storey semi-detached house in Bangsar is worth RM4 to 5 million. His Taman Tun house where his daughter, Pam was living in, has just been sold for RM1.2 million. Another house in Bangsar where his son, Jim lives, also belongs to him and this is worth easily RM1.2 to 1.5 million. He is said to own other properties besides the above.
The value of his overseas properties is not known. The amount of money he has in his local as well as overseas bank accounts is also unknown. Since he has never declared to the Church the love offerings he has received, there is, therefore, no way to ascertain the amount of wealth he has amassed overseas.
When Pas Robert Lim of Singapore came to preach just two services in Calvary Church on one Sunday in 2003, the Church gave him a love gift of S$10,000 (read the CT article on 3 April 2009). If we use this as a benchmark, the amount of love offerings that PG would have received over the last 40 years from his overseas preaching engagements, can be fairly substantial.
The deacons have mentioned before that his personal ministry, Calvary International Ministries (CIM) also has bank accounts in Singapore and USA but we have no way of verifying the bank balances there. Nevertheless, it is safe to estimate PG’s total wealth to be in the region of at least RM10 million. Bearing in mind that he has no known borrowings, he is certainly a very rich man.
It is therefore, of great interest to members to know how much advance he has pledged or made to the CCC project this time. After all, he is the Senior Pastor and the CCC is his vision and it is only appropriate that he leads by example.
The amount of advance he commits to the CCC compared to his wealth will be a good yardstick for the ordinary members to follow if they believe in his vision and want to participate in this “Give an Advance” campaign.
The big question on everyone’s lips is how much is PG advancing to the CCC. Is it RM1 million, RM2 million, RM3 million or more?
So Prince Guneratnam, can you answer our BIG QUESTION, please?
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We thank our reader who used the pseudonym "Discovery Channel" for these photos of the November-December 1993 issue of Calvary News. This article written back in 1993 welcoming Pam G and her husband and daughter back to Malaysia after being away for 7 to 8 years in the USA for studies is proof of PG's wealth even back then.
It takes a very rich man to be able to afford to support a daughter's overseas studies for 7 to 8 years. In PG's case, he not only need to finance his daughter's study and living expenses, he also had to finance the bringing up of a granddaughter, who spent the first 4 years of her life in the USA. To top this, his son Jim was also studying in the USA about the same time.
As we recall, PG and wife also took one year sabbatical leave to be with his children and granddaughter in the USA. Of course, the members were told that he was there to do a Masters degree. Now, this is indeed the lifestyle of the rich.
82 comments:
If PGs and their supporters did not & never sell their personal Bungalows, Semi-D, houses locally and overseas, and contribute to CCC, then it is safely make known that his CCC vision is a actually a FARCE ? It is extremely very difficult for the " Rich Pastors" to enter the Kingdom of God!
I personally thank TTG's efforts for exposing the Conmen and Conwomen in our midst in CC and also in many other Churches who are also in DENIAL !
Wow! Never thought our pastor is worth so much! CCC should be a reality if he gave sacrificially...
What a scam!
WOW!10M?This is only the amount that we just count and know of....What about the other properties and account (both local and overseas?)I am sure it must be more or equivalent....We have a multi mullionaire for a pastor....and a multi million project......This is one great church.....Please read HOW PASTORS GET RICH.......He can resign and just sit at home and still make money instead of making more christians stumble....This is all very very bad and a disgrace to our church where we USED to call HOME
PG and deacons are just interested in getting money from members and worshippers they are not concerned for their spiritual well-being or spiritual growth. What a shame!
They do not know the heart beat of God. They are just engrossed with getting more and more money to realise PG's dream to build CCC. They are missing out to reach out to the lost and ministering to the needs of hurting people. What a shame!
All their priorities are wrong...what has happened?
Giving 3 millions is not a sacrifice but an investment & advertisement fees to them. If they give and announce their giving publicly to the church, they gain their reward already by gaining fame from advertising their giving. And it is easy for someone hold authority in church, control the church affair (despite stumble many) and sit on honorable position to save his comfortable and profitable seat by giving. In other word, when they give, they are giving to themselves, for gaining fame and saving their position. If church affair were decided by the people, do you think they will give? No way. So is this 3mil a gift? Not at all.
The Bible only teaches us to give according to one's needs. All other kinds of "givings, pledges or offerings" are unscriptural and are man-made with most of them abusing the funds to enrich themselves. Is it spiritual right for a pastor who has been invited to preach to receive a "love offering?" I thought a preacher is to preach the gospel 'free of charge' and must not accept any form of money, moreover most already had enough and in no needs.
SP & his pastors kept pressuring members that they ought to give for CCC for as christians they are 'duty bound' to obey God. This is not God's teaching but men. Do those who support CCC think the granduer of a multi million structure could help a poor hungry person to reach God? But if you buy food to feed this poor under nourished person, your act of Christ's love would fuel his soul for God and save him. We are encouraged to show this "act of God's love" to win the lost for Christ. Mega churches cannot save, thats why CCC never is a call or a vision of God. SP & his pastors are wrong.
I was just reading an old copy of Calvary Calls, dd. 1994, & it contained an article about Pam and Christopher Lee who had returned HOME after studying in the U.S. for 7-8 years.....
Wow, how much did those two spend from our Church coffers? Studied in the U.S. for EIGHT years! I had always thought their parents sponsored their studies but thanks to the expose by TTG, I now realise that the PG family had been using our church funds as their own personal bank a/c!!
And, Pam's doting parents certainly had plans for their little girl.....the minute she returned HOME she was made DIRECTOR of Calvary Life Ministry! Thanks to the expose by TTG, we now know that CLM had been registered in HER NAME, and all the surplus funds in this so-called Extended Ministry, now BELONGs to daddy's little girl! Who had, coincidentally, recently resigned from church service!! So, did CLM close down with her departure? Where did the surplus funds go, by the way?
The Guneratnam family were into this deception BIG-TIME, waaa--ay back in the 1980's!
All the talk about Faith Promise is man made and it is devised by greedy pastors who are out to make the pastoral ministry a money spinning profession.
In fact the CC Senior pastors and their puppets have been using the pulpit to satisfy their own desires to get rich but under the disguise of raising funds for God's work.
Whereas in actual fact how much has gone into real missions? How much has actually gone for self gratification and lining PG and family members' own pockets and for their personal comforts and gains?
Wonder why did PG's daughter sell her house in up market residential area in KL? Can it be that she resigned to move overseas as the heat is getting too strong here? After having milked the cash cow perhaps it's time to make exit so better move out clean from the mess in CC and leave deacons to carry the load?
Wondering why the deacons are so naive and dumb, they have been used by PG and family to execute the CC/ CCC master plan and yet deacons are so compliant and supportive, why?
Don't the deacons have wisdom and discernment in this whole matter which has been boiling for more than two years now? Aren't they aware that they are sinking into the pit deeper and deeper?
May God have mercy upon the congregation in CC.
WAKE UP CC members!
CORRECTION
The present house in up-market Bukit Bandar Raya, Bangsar, where PG stays with his wife, is a BUNGALOW and not a Semi-D. It has been extensively renovated and has luxurious fittings to cater to their hi-touch living.
Even way back in the 70's PG knew how to 'wrangle' $$$ thru the BOD from the Congregation- to own a new Bungalow in his name. The down payment was paid by the Church, and he continues to receive 'Housing Allowance' ( God knows how much!) till this day. In other words it's all paid for from church's coffer.
When one considers how he has also shrewdly created CIM & CCC, he sure is a "VISION" man!
CT you are spot on.
Indeed, knowing the Showman PG is, IF, indeed he has
made a Big Cash advance, he would have announced and make a Big deal out of it--stating the Amount for the world to know.
Alas, If anything at all, it's probably just some 'pocket change' from his FAT Swiss account.
The 3rd paragraph of "Wake Up CC Members" asked - "Whereas in actual fact how much has gone into real missions? How much has actually gone for self gratification and lining PG and family members' own pockets and for their personal comforts and gains?"
These 2 questions had already been answered more than a year ago, at the 2nd day of the AGM. After 2 longs days of being abused by PG, APs & Deacons (plus RC) who all showed NO love for the congregation in the way they verbally bashed them, a TTG crew had very calmly posed this question to the Treasurer (ER) - "previously, we had no knowledge that RM 200,000 was moved yearly to CIM from the Missions Accounts, now that we are aware, may I know where this is categorised in the 2007 accounts?"
ER then answered that "it is included in Missions & Evangelism", to which the TTG crew commented "in 2007, the amount given to Missions & Evangelism was RM 260,000 which means that after deducting the RM 200,000 which was quietly moved to CIM, ONLY RM 60,000 was actually given to Missions & Evangelism. You mean ONLY RM 5,000 per month was given to Missions & Evangelism when CC collected more than RM 300,000 per month through Faith Promise & we call ourselves a BIG church?"
Does that answer the 2 questions? I think it does.
Remember that PG (abetted by PO) had quietly moved RM 200,000 yearly to CIM for a few years until God exposed it to the brave TTG who concluded that a total of RM 1.9m was moved quietly to CIM from 2003 to 2007. In the secular world, PG (& PO) would have been charged for CBT (& abetment). I rest my case ...........
PS (for PG2's sake) - CBT means Criminal Breach of Trust. PG2, in case you still don't know, do look up the dictionary or else just google it ......
"...a total of RM 1.9m was moved quietly to CIM from 2003 to 2007. In the secular world, PG (& PO) would have been charged for CBT (& abetment)."
Any news yet from the Commercial Crime Division Bukit Aman ? Will the maker of the 2009 Police report keep us updated on this case ?
TTG must report to the Anti Corruption Agency of Malaysia (MACC) about all the properties and wealth belonging to the PG's family if in fact he has cheated the government on his taxable income. I just find it revolting and vulgar that a Malaysian church pastor can amassed so much wealth by his own hard work. Again, my friends are asking why this is happening with the AOG churches which seem to have a liking for money, adultery and all other kinds of vices. TTG can't afford to just talk and talk and do nothing to help wipe out this scum affair in CC. It's sickening to the core. It's worse than Jim Baker and Jim Jones etc add together.
I am glad the unrighteous deeds of SP & family are been made known for all to see as many of CC members are not aware of these. But I am particularly dissapointed with Assoc Pastors and other pastors and I think they should be regarded just as worse & guilty for ignoring SP & family's unrighteous deeds and still continued supporting them. They must have also participated & committed these misdeeds themselves in this corrupted scheme for their personal gains. I am disgusted as many of us earned very much less than these well paid pastors and seeing them misused our hard earned money to serve themselves is truly unjust. They chose to be silent to all the exposed injustices thinking their silence will make them look innocense, but instead in their long silence, their guilt & shame has already spoken even clearer & louder.
A case of 'Give with a Bang & Live in SECRET'..
That's the style of PG, when he gives some $mall change--he makes a Big Fuss out of it--Big Drama with sound effects & supporting cast. And so, contrive in his ways to gain 'praise & sympathy' for his action.This bloke should be in Bollywood!
Ah, but in this recent Cash Advance, he probably gave ZERO. (No Drama, Beware!)
Also, congregation out there, who is participating in Cash Advance--Check the Small fine print in the 'contract' ( Agreement of Understanding) Not surprising, they will have themselves covered first. come what may, they will also get back RM3M first! (the rest of you Please take a queue! number! and be prepared for fear tactic+Excuses)
As for 'Live in Secret' -- PG1 &PG2 take it to a new level.
His Luxurious-Resort Bungalow is highly guarded.
No congregation members allowed. ( unless authorised thru plenty of Red tape)
Photographs is Prohibited. Any one caught, has to surrender the Film to his "Aide"aka Assoc Pastors.
24hr CCTV surveillance.
Wow, what a High Flyer "pastor"! And he sure does both "My way" in direct contradiction to the Lord's Way.
A correction on my previous comment: the Calvary News article on, "Welcome Home, Pam & Chris!" was printed in the November-December 1993 issue whereas the advertisement on the launching of Calvary Life Ministry with Pam Guneratnam as its Director was printed in the January-February 1994 issue of Calvary News.
I have also taken some photos of these two items as proof. How do I upload these photos for you to see?
The scheming PG1 & PG2 had this all planned out way back in the '80s or even in the '70s!!!
Imagine the church had to pay for their studies for 8 years, whilst they live like kings & princesses! I had to scrimp and save to send my daughter for a 2+1 program of studies, because not many can afford a 3-years study overseas, let alone 8 years!
The Guneratnams had really cheated the people of Calvary Church for years!
It is a sad thing that church has turned into a business that focus on monetary profit. Nowadays pastors highly earned and can own houses even in tropicana, that many professionals are not effort. Pastors can send their children to oversea, live there without the pressure to work, enjoy luxury lifestyle, and never even work hard; but the rest of God's people are struggle with poverty. When i serve in CC, i notice that none of the pastors even offer a hand to help, when they saw me working in physical work with sweat. Just how sad church and pastors have become. I always hope for revival, but the present situation is more like Sodom than revival.
Do you notice that PG is a slick showman on the stage and he can make people submit to his ways...parting with their hard earned moneys to support his many smooth talking calls for six monthly faith promises, leap in faith 1-2, buy a brick, mustard seed gift and many more.
PG is good at acting and the Associate Pastors and deacons are also good supporting actors and actresses. Some film maker should make a movie out of CC saga and it can serve as warning to all pastors and members of other churches that they won't fall into such a trap as well.
So sad to note that AOG churches have been subjected to so many scandals over the years. Many have been stumbled by these so called dynamic charismatic pastors. They have been put off by these fleshly pastors who yielded to the evil one's enticement.
Salt when it loses its saltiness, is of no more use but to be trampled under foot.
Refer to Anonymous (July 24th,12:16pm). Truly, almost all, if not all the scandal tainted preachers are from AOG churches. Does'nt it tells us something must be very wrong. Is it the true spirit of God reigning in these AOG churches? The Spirit of God whom Jesus called "The Spirit of Truth" will always lead us to ALL HIS TRUTH and all spiritual righteousness. The apostles of Jesus was led by this Spirit to live out their righteous lives. Do we see this happening with the CC pastors? None at all! So,my friend what do you think is actually wrong?? Try going into the website on "Encyclopedia of Pentecostal Ministries and Ministers" and you might understand and know whats wrong.
Its really a tedious task to wipe out this "scumy affair" in CC. Only God can help you all do the impossible. However, in all appreciation to CT & TTG, I think they have done a commendable job.
I have been reading and following the saga in CC. Whilst I sympathize with the aggrieved members i notice that there have been instances of broad accusations that seem to taint all and sundry with the same broad brush of guilt. For the sake of your credibility I believe we should post only what we know to be factually correct and have personally vouched for it's accuracy, and not mere suspicions. It is easy to fall into the trap of being the judge, jury and executioner. That does not serve the cause of Christ.
July 25, 2010 6:40 AM
Reply to Anonymous(July 25th,6:40am.)
I believed those who brought up the misdeeds of SP and others must have certain facts right before letting them published in the CT Blog. Maybe some facts are not so accurately correct or wrong, but thats not the crucial point of the matter. I think we should not be concerned with knowing all the actual facts correct on every of their misdeeds. If SP & team had committed just 2 or 3 out of the many accusations, then its good enough to find them guilty regardless if the facts on other accussations are correct or not. The Bible says if a person broke just 1 command out of the 10 commandments, God would find that person guilty of all even though he had not broken the remaining 9.
Your statement of "falling into the trap of being judge, jury & executioner" is not appropriate. Though the final Judge is God Himself, we believers are also called to be of a sound & good judgement. The Bible says, "Ye who is spiritual, judges all things". What does this means? I would say it means we must discern with our hearts if what we saw are spiritual right or wrong, or if a preacher is true or a false one. Especially today when there are so many false prophets around, Jesus warned us to be on guard & beware of them, to recognise them & warned others so that they might not fall into their trap of deceitfullness & apostasy. This would serve the cause of Christ.
I hope you would take my comments in a good light.
Dear Anonymous @ 6.40am, July 25,
You cannot blame the people of Calvary Church for being angry. We have, after all, been betrayed, cheated & manipulated by the SP & his wife whom we had trusted for 40 years! You are only an outsider trying to understand the situation - you will feel differently if you are in OUR shoes!
Based on what have been discovered during the CC saga there have been plenty of facts of abuse of position and powers, non disclosures or partial disclosures of pertinent matters to members, nepotism and exploitation for personal benefits and gains.
Despite that CC leadership is still pretending matters are in order. PG and deacons try to cover up what is happening.
We know for a fact that CCC project has been stalled for many months and it is already a delayed and almost failed project as the completion date has been pushed back for several times. One thing after another has happened but CC leaders want to push ahead and ignore the true state of affairs.
Are they wise in doing so? Won't they try to re-evaluate the situation? Why the need to save face so badly?
We learn from our mistakes but it seems it is too bitter a pill to swallow for PG and BOD. Hence the soap opera continues to run. PG and deacons' smooth talking continues and CC members are expected to give and give...
Well, it is fact that PG deny transparency. It is a fact that PG steal money from church to put into CIM. It is a fact that PG sack 400 members. In my 20years plus of christian walk, i never heard christians can be sacked from church. It is a fact that PG own several luxury houses. Where he get those money? It is a fact that many AOG pastors sent their chilren to overseas to student, live in luxury homes, have the church pay for all their electrical, water bill etc, despite many people suffer poverty around them. Even if they did not steal, the lack of compassion in these pastors already show that they are guilty. People give to church for mission, to change our land, yet these pastors exploit them for themselves. I know all these because i attend a church leadership meeting before...a small church, but the pastor already demand for high pay, priviledges like his water, electrical, petrol, insurance bill paid by the church. The church members are mostly seller in pasar malam and most of them are poor, yet this wolf pastor already demand money for himself, claiming that God want such. He even point example from PG, claiming that every AOG church does such, and therefore it is no exceptional that he does not get such benefit. Christian community are indeed in a social and spiritual problem. Such Mammon mentality has invaded our leaders, and if we allow such to continue, our children will suffer. I foresee if PG allow to escape away this saga with CCC built, in future Christians will be people that less thinking and easily manipulated.
God revealed to the brave TTG crew that PG, through CIM, had amassed RM 2.1m over the period late 2002 to end 2007 (about 5 & 1/4 years) of which RM 1.9m came from CC's coffers & the balance of RM 0.2m were contributions from individuals & bank interest.
Thus, it would appear that the entire RM 2.1m raised by CIM was sourced internally within CC.
Since CIM (Calvary International Ministries) is supposed to be for International ministry work, then it would follow that PG must have been able to secure $$$ from his overseas counterparts as we, in CC, had also invested in the mission work of visiting overseas pastors & missionaries in the past.
If so, it would follow that PG must have stashed such ill-gotten gains overseas in his Swiss, US & Singaporean bank accounts (to avoid being taxed by the Malaysian Tax authorities & to finance his purchases of US properties).
PG has been scheming all along, as far back as 1985 when he changed the CC Constitution & styled himself as the Chief Executive Officer of CC.
To all those who are ignorant of matters in CC, please do not just comment for the sake of commenting; do find out the facts first. Suggest that if you are really interested in the TRUTH behind PG & CC, just spend a couple of days to read the CT blog from Day 1 (do skip the comments if you are pressed for time). If you are NOT prepared to do so, then just zip your mouth as saying the wrong things (of which you have no knowledge) is tantamount to a violation of the 9th Commandment - thou shalt NOT bear false witness against thy neighbour.
I rest my case .........
Our children in carpenter workshop also got conned into giving to CCC, calvaryland, faith promise,etc via small coins collection ? Now that they have grown up to be teenagers, they have decided to leave Calvary Church to avoid being conned again !
TTG have indeed done a great job to highlight all the negative exploitations of PGs and his blinded supporters! Keep up your good works!
Dear Discovery Channel and readers,
You cannot post any photos or scan documents in the Comment section in a blog.
Please forward the scan documents to our email address : calvarytoday@gmail.com We will only publish it as an Addendum to the main post if we see that it has relevance to our main article.
However, we thank you for taking the trouble to remind us of what took place years ago and in this case, you even have proof to substantiate what you wrote. We appreciate your effort.
We take this oportunity to thank readers out there for your emails to us. Some of you have forwarded to us, articles and links to blogsites which houses topics relevant to our situation. We will arrange to publish them as the Lord so lead us to.
Our God is always good to us all.
This is very sad.If PG goes down for CBT I am sure the BODs and those involved will be dragged into it also.Imagine what will happen to the church?Better to surrender peacefully (while they still can)before it is too late.Innocents will be involved (family members/loved ones).
July 26, 2010 3:17 PM
If PG goes down for the "alleged" CBT I am sure the BODs and those involved will be dragged into it..?
Normally search and arrest warrants are served at 4am Saturday to avoid the limelight?
The Singapore Commercial Crime Department Act swiftly on Harvest Church! However,it was a rather unusual slow investigation on CC & CCC saga by CCD of Bukit Aman ? Let's hear more follow-up news from the Maker of the First Information Police Report dated 2009! I believed it is a very difficult & complicated investigation given that many church admissible documents had already been shredded & destroyed?
I am sure that PG or his BODs have viewed/read/seen/heard/logged into this blog before.For all that is happenening here why can't they write something in their defence.If they do not want the public to know, at least clear the air in this blog and settle it 'quietly' and explain themselves instead of 'hanging dirty linen in public'.
A note to PG and the BODS:If TTG is wrong in their comments and remarks please defend yourselves instead of keeping quiet, unless all of it is true then....i have no comments.Many christian have stumble and fallen.Do let anymore fall.I pray that you will do what is right not for man but for GOD
I have been following CT since it started and I am still waiting to read/see the evidence/proof supporting all the allegations. A good example is all the properties the SP & his family own in the USA and UK?
To Anonymous at 7pm on 27 July,
Just in case you still think that PG & BOD ought to be given the benefit of the doubt, consider the following ........
1. God initially revealed the silent moving of RM 200,000 yearly to the TTG on Saturday 3rd May 2008 when they reviewed the 2007 Missions Accounts, in the presence of PO, SK & ER,
2. Deacon PT had, on Saturday 31st May 2008, admitted that a total sum of RM 1.1m had been moved from CC's coffers to CIM,
3. The brave TTG were shown CIM's audited accounts on Saturday 21st June 2008 by PT, in the presence of 3 Deacons & PO. After 1 & 1/2 hours, the TTG concluded that a sum of RM 1.9m (out of the total RM 2.1m) amassed by CIM, from 2002 to 2007, came from CC & this was confirmed by ER.
4. At the 3rd May 2008 meeting, SK confirmed that PG has a habit of doing the LOTT (Legs On The Table),
5. At the EGM in April 2009, CC's auditors had confirmed that many of PG's indiscretions (including Gym fees, PG's children's & grandchildren's education funds, air fare for Deacon PW's child, etc., etc.) had actually happened,
6. The silent & discreet moving of RM 200,000 yearly from CC's coffers to PG's personal ministry (CIM) was confirmed by CC's Treasurer (ER), at the AGM on Saturday 20th June 2009, that the RM 200,000 moved quietly in 2007 was classified under Missions & Evangelism in CC's Missions Accounts,
7. The way PG & BOD (abetted by RC) conducted the 2-day AGM, on Friday 19th June Saturday 20th June 2009, by bulldozing through without any love shown to the congregation, in their singleminded intent on "throwing" out the TTG's 7 resolutions which were properly put up in line with CC's Constitution, just goes to show that they have lost IT.
And the list goes on & on & on ...............
As the wise lawyer would say, I rest my case ........
Dear Still Waiting,
It is good to know that we have readers like yourself who have been following CT since the beginning.
As the Administrators of CT, we have publish whatever supporting materials that we have to support what is written in our updates to our readers. However, there are materials that we will not publish until the time is right. As the Lord so lead us, He also have put in our hands materials that under normal circumstances, we would not be able to have and for this we are always thankful to our God for His guidance and providence.
As we have said many times before since the inception of CT, please look up or call any of the TTG people to seek the clarification and evidence you wish to see. In fact, Bro KC and Bro HM has invited certain people before who have asked the similar things that you are asking now to meet with them personally. So far, all who have asked for evidence here in CT have not made any attempts to identify themselves and meet the two brothers.
You may also write us an email to calvarytoday@gmail.com and we will try to arrange for some of the brothers or sisters to meet with you personally.
On another matter, "Discovery Channel" has graciously forwarded to us photos of the past issue of the Calvary News which highlighted Pam and Chris together with their daughter's return to CC. We are now deliberating if this needs to be published.
Please pray along with us for wisdom and guidance from God above as we continue to move on.
And the BIG Answer from PG on Faith Promise Renewal Sunday is....
the usual...
"I love Faith Promise Sundays"
He meant it, literally...
PGs children overseas education in US, UK , Australia Paid by by CC ?
Were these payments approved by the members of CC , or just approved by BOD ? WE need to know such details !
Yeah, I agree with CT and the rest we should only post facts and not suspicion. I will be extremely shocked if PG's family education is being paid by the church. This is going to be far-fetched and I really hope it's not true.
Agreed with Anonymous 10:49 AM . I am very and sad to see that is no ending to this saga. Please Lord,reveal and end this saga as soon as possible...we are very weary and tired.
July 29, 2010 1:41 PM
To Anonymous at July 29, 2010 1:59 PM,
After giving the benefits of doubt to SP/BOD, I think many like me, upon further investigation into the various issues have come to the conclusion that the financial stewardship in CC left much to be desired Isnt the dwindling attendances ( The Lord give and take..), spotlight in newspapers are signs of what lies ahead. There will always be 'die hards' in CC who will support SP/CCC. Let's move on with God, wise up, do TOTT( Turn Off The Tap ) to CCC and divert our givings elsewhere. God will deal with SP/BOD in time.
PG and family certainly have been absolutely spoilt by deacons over the decades. No wonder they can afford to live in style.
It is sad that a man who is supposedly a servant of God should live a humble life caring for the less fortunate but instead is living a life that is representative of the rich and famous! What an irony?
Won't the Associate pastors and deacons be the first to be answerable for this fallacy? Why if they had been fearing God rather than one man (PG) then this whole ugly saga won't have continued for so long.
We shall pray that the bondages that bind the BOD and Associate pastors be broken and they be set free from deception and the grip of lies and fear of one man (PG).
"...PG and family certainly have been absolutely spoilt by deacons over the decades."
Thanks for finally admitting to this FACTs. Praise the Lord !
WOW!What luxury life they have....many of us have been giving sacrificially to church and others live luxurious life on the expense of ofhers, is there no shame?Before I gave thinking the $$ is going for the good of the unfortunate ones but now I am very discourage to hear of all the misuse of the funds......tsk tsk tsk.....Thank you TTG for all the exposure.....May God bless you and keep up the good work.....PG,please do something and do what is right.As for me it is TOTT.......
July 30, 2010 1:30 PM
Simple arithmetic tells me that for Pam to study in the U.S. for 7-8 years, the plans were hatched BEFORE 1984....
PG changed the Church Constitution in 1985 to protect his position in the church.....
So, his was an act of deliberate scheming and diabolical plotting to get his hands on the church funds for his and his family's use....
So how in the world could PG2 claim that she & her husband do not know anything about CBT??!! What a liar!!
And to think that we loved them and TRUSTED them for 40 years!!
How many can have the luxury of studying 7-8 years overseas as a couple with a kid? Who paid for Chris's education? How much has been spent on this Princely family out of the church coffer. Anyone out there any idea how long does it take to acquire Bsc in Psychology and Msc in Counselling normally. Are they taking their own sweet time in US at the expense of cc and to avoid working for a living.
With all their plans highlighted in the church bulletin, has any of their plans successfully implemented for the benefit of cc members and believers? As far as I know, the music and choir still remain the same as was 30 years ago. How many actually went for counselling?
Who can fault SP1 and SP2 for being such "great parent"? All planned up for their children and grandchildren's future. We, normal parent can only tell our kids to "get real and get a job".
Now we begin to have our eyes opened to see what a great "visionary" PG is in scheming and plotting how to amass all the wealth for his own family and ensuring himself, his wife and children and children's children are lavishly provided in life!
For PG's children and grandchildren it is not just USA education but life style of rich and famous thrown in... now when CC is in crisis where is Pam G? Quietly resigned from CC ministry; CLM and Youth Ministry dumped away and conveniently residing in USA to enjoy the fruits of her father's schemes?
Where is the heart of a true servant of God? It is just a profession and one that is lined with income and perks that CC members have no idea. Why? Because PG kept it from the perview of even the deacons who have been sheepishly following the leader.
CC members and worshippers have been fleeced unashamedly and now feeling terribly deceived and shakened.
At the 8:00am service at DH this morning, it was a pathetic sight to see only about 350 people in the sanctuary. However to PG and his minions, this is "no big issue" as long as the money keeps coming in.
Ps SK sounds excited to announce that the CCC site had been handed over to a new contractor. The video clip only showed the clearing of rubbish left over previously. No doubt the site was just handed over and no construction work is expected. So, this clip is not meaningful in any way. As is the usual practice in CC, this information is barest! Who is the contractor? What is the value of this stage of the project? What is completion date of this stage? Has any checks been carried out as the the ability and cash-flow of this contractor (bearing in mind the questionable award and the fiasco that resulted with the previous contractor). Information is not forthcoming. The less you know, the better. Yet PG had the audacity to ask Calvarites to give, give and give in the form of advance, building pledge and faith promise (any extra will go towards CCC).
Oh no! Ps Guynes who condones freemasonry (as he had stated in his open letter) will be speaking at CC. When will they ever learn?
PG is still as arrogant as ever. His treatment of others was and still is: "Whatever it is. If I say it's ok, it's ok. No questions." BTW, don't forget that Ps Guynes was given US10,000 to chair the EGM and this can do a lot of things.
There are many ignorance christians who do not bother is PG corrupt or not, as long as there is still opportunity to meet friends in church. Others afraid to against PG in far that if he succeed in builting CCC. You see, why they still continue CCC is because it is a tactic to convince others and win supporters, as many will forget his corruption when CCC is built. CT & TTG should bring greater awareness that it is not abotu success, but righteousness that matter. Many in CC still either unaware or unconvinced. Greater awareness is necessary. Please plan a move. DOn't let PG continue to cheat the money of our brothers & sisters.
Calvary Church Fixed Deposit has drop from pre-2009 Rm55 Million to Rm30 Million in 2010 within a year ? With TTG continous efforts to get members , supporters and visitors to TOTT , will the Fixed Deposit drop to Rm5 million in 2011 ? How to pay salaries for Associate Pastors, Assistant Pastors, Outreach Pastors & Church workers ? Where to get more $$ to pay electricity, water, iwk bills, quit rents, assessments, and to maintain the various ministries like Calvaryland,etc ?
Is CC heading towards Bankruptcy in the very near future and the BOD is to be fully BLAMED ?
What do they care!
At a wedding function over the wkend, a well known celebrity told me that PG2, when it comes to buying jewellery--she is accorded "PRIVATE VIEWING". This sure reveals her Affluent status. (but then she is, first & foremost a DATIN)
And just the evening before, PG &PG2 spotted in highend mall doing their lifestyle dinning & shopping.
Does anyone wonder, is this the kind of public place of they should be found while CCC is in deep crisis, and everyone else they have asked to give sacrificially, is asked to pray & fast--???
TTG has done a great job to make me aware of PGs conmanship! Keep up your good works!
I have completely stopped giving to CC ,CCC , Calvaryland, etc etc!
All monies are hereby diverted to other Churches with most pressing needs!
What can we expect from PG and PG2? Will they feel for the sheep? No they are still enjoying life like nobody's business. They do not walk the talk.
PG can shout and act on stage preaching about sacrificial giving and giving beyond one's means but he and his family will continue to live in abundance and style.
CC members are asked to give and give but PG, PG2 and family are still expecting to receive and receive from CC coffers, CIM treasury and beyond....
Meantime the associate pastors and deacons are still acting innocent and following the leader with blinders. They are also not walking the talk.
Input for Anonymous
August 2, 2010 9:34 AM
and recent post by Not surprised one bit
You brought out something very interesting - fd is dwindling down.
Of course this can happen when PG who should cut down expenses decided to have PROMOTE LOAN TO THE CHURCH FUNCTION held in Sime Darby Convention Centre that already cost an esimate of RM25,000.00. CC is big enough but think not good enough to house rich people (do u know this group has been especially invited?)
PG should be blamed - he is the only one who can approve what money could be spent.
Poor deacons - they are blamed for what their boss dictates them to do!!! Of course, they can say NO but the only one who dared has resigned and sacked later.
Recently he even promote borrow (even though you do not have money) to give to the church as a loan By any standards having RM30 million is definitely cash rich.
Why should you worry about a church having RM30 mil in their coffers? Of course, in any organisations if times are bad, they cut down their expenses and trim down staff.
Here THERE ARE 2 illegal over-staying pastors whose delight/passion in jewellery, posh cars, gym sessions, buying properties all over the world. The 30Mill will last longer if they are retired or
if they wish to stay, follow the procedure of CC staff on reaching 55 retiremenr age, they were given an option to continue to stay doing the same job but have salaries cut by 1/2.
WHY can't this be applied to PG1 and PG2? In fact they should return to CC the sum they have been over-paid for the last 10th years of more. Wow, our 30M will be greatly increased instanteously!!
One last thing, where is the missing 25Million? In whose pocket?
No longer blind said: "One last thing, where is the missing 25Million? In whose pocket?"
Noticed that the assessment/conclusion is the 25 million is "missing" - in other words there is some thing amiss, some hanky-panky going on. And what is this "wrong" which has occurred? Without a shadow of doubt, No longer blind says that it has gone into someone's pocket and that's why the question is asked "In whose pocket?".
The transition from there is a reduction in FD of 25 million to "in someone's pocket" is frightening. In fact it is so "amazing" that one must have great "faith" to understand and accept it.
Please, please - there are comments and there are comments. Comment on things you know and not things you don't know.
Thank You.
My 2 sen worth to Anon, August 2, 2010 9:34 AM.
You seem to be interested in no money to pay pastors' salary, why? If no money, then pastors' should practise what they preach - PRAY AND ASK GOD (not members) FOR MIRACLE! TIME TO LEARN TO LIVE BY FAITH!
Then you are concern, no money to pay church bills. If so, then cut down on expenses. Learn to recycle and reuse materials. Sell some unused av/audio gadgets. Cut down pastors' perks and benefit, sacrifice patrol claims and overseas trips. Others in the corporate company are doing this. Why not the church and the pastors.
Rightly pointed out by someone, what happend to RM25 mil in one year. Maybe it did not land in anyone's pocket. You telling me that there are no more members giving tithes? cannot be. You mean the church operation expenses is RM25 mil a year? That's about RM2 mil a month. Why do you think another RM25 mil will disappear from the FD in 2010? You said from 30 to 5 mil. I hope what you say is not going to happen.
and you last sentence is also questionable. "Is CC heading towards Bankruptcy in the very near future and the BOD is to be fully BLAMED ?" Why should the BOD be blamed at all?
We all know for a fact that the BOD have no say all these while in the operations and salary of pastors. Before this saga, they exist only as a rubber stamp for PG's sole doing. How come? because PG only choose his yes-men/women for the job. Anyone who dares question him will be dropped the next year or not recommended for election. So how can BOD be "fully BLAMED"? PG and PG alone is to be fully blamed if the church do go into bankruptcy.
So my opinion for your comment here is to frighten us to give. You are trying to tell us that if we continue to TOTT, the church will go bankrupt and the BOD is to be blamed for it. What about PG? Is he not to be blamed also?
Anyone who DISOBEYED & turned away from the LORD of HOST will surely not be blessed anymore financially.
Will PGs quit and leave Calvary Church quitely the moment CC is in financial troubles ? Look like the prophecy for Calvary Church will come to pass because of her DISOBEDIENCE through the PGs & die-hard supporters!
Even though the main offenders in the misuse of church funds(members' money) are SP & wife, the BOD cannot escape without sharing the blame. In fact, in particularly the Assoc.Pastors, other pastors including BOD are equally if not more to be blamed for failing to think for themselves to stop SP & wife the access to use member's money for their personal & family's gains. Its not about being "yes men/women" or the fear of one man. I believed they knew it in their hearts that its spiritual wrong for such misdeeds, but did nothing to stop them abusing members' money. Even until now, they have never said a word about SP's misdeeds and worse had even supported them. Isn't this disgusting & dissapointing of them. So can we say they are not to be blamed simply because they are unable to overide SP. This cannnot be tolerated and is no excuse. They all should be blamed for failing to carry out their duties individually to safeguard God's money.
Its just amazing that these CC pastors can preached every weekend and carry on with their anti christ living. They are the "modern Pharisees" of today. Proud, arrogant, self righteous, think themselves highly and more knowledgeble than others and do not like to faulted by others.
Anonymous at August 6th, 2010 11.51AM wrote was in response to "2 sen opinion said"
"...Its just amazing that these CC pastors can preached every weekend and carry on with their anti christ living. They are the "modern Pharisees" of today. Proud, arrogant, self righteous, think themselves highly and more knowledgeble than others and do not like to faulted by others..."
So fast the above described PGS & their die-hard supporters explicitly well!
Secular Financial Bankruptcy is the only way to bring them down to their kneels and to halt their EVIL plot ! NO ONE CAN CHEAT the LORD GOD !
Even if CC bankrupt, PG & family would just left CC as hireman to US to continue his fake CIM. He has plunder the church so much & enough to retire even now. With his many hardcore AOG pastors friends, he can easily gain offering thru just lip service overseas. The damage is on CC and the members who if desire to continue CC, need to bear the debt. Yes, PG responsible and guilty. Yes, the BOD & Asso Pastors responsible. Yes, even AOG & NECF are responsible too for keeping silent. But TT&G & CT is not left unaccountable. You have the influence to make things right early but you linger and spare the Tan Sri, by taking too little actions. In the process of idle, those who hurt stumbles, & gradually fall away. Their suffering prolong & some even left Christianity. Yes, they may be stumbled by PG, but you have the responsibility to lift them up. The longer PG stands, the more hurt, the more lost of CC money, the more damage, the deeper wound, the greater shame afflict. You may say, "Why don't you do it then?". I am not in your position of influence. You are, and you should not be like Barak of Judges.
I am comforted to know that even though PG, the Guneratnams, and their cohorts, may seem to 'get away' with CBT, corruption, lying, etc. , he will not be able to escape God's judgment....
....as long as they do not repent, there is this day awaiting PG & PG2: will PG tremble and shake before the very Throne of God, or will he try to 'bluff his way through' with his lying and acting skills? Could PG2 be able to say "We've been in the ministry for 40 years, we don't know anything about CBT!"
To Anonymous of August 10,11.36 pm.
Hello there 10/08/2010 of 11.36 pm
What nonsense are you talking about? TTG and CT has done more than enough. They are just ordinary folks who dared to take the bold step to stop the No. 1 supremo of the AOG kingdom. If members lose faith and stumbles, it's because they worship the MAN and not GOD. Yes, true believers were shocked and disappointed but they pick up the pieces and began to look to God and His Word not the words of some bible twisting swindler pastors! If TTG and CT has not done enough, then I ASK YOU "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ON YOUR PART" instead of criticing others. If you have any great ideas, please give. You accused TTG and CT for not lifting others up, what about yourself. Have you ever consider that TTG and CT need to be lifted up as well? It is not easy for them to take up this mammoth case against the power seats of cc and for what? There's no personal gain. Instead it took away their precious family time, finance and even their reputation. THE MOST HURTFUL TO THEM IS TO BE ACCUSED OF "BEING IDLE AND NOT DOING ENOUG".
Now Bro/Sis, APOLOGISE to TTG and CT and offer some words of encouragement and helpful suggestion.
I wonder if PG believes the Bible.
O yes he believes in the Bible. That's why he always quote the Bible. Whenever he wants us to give our money, he will quote the Bible but I must continue the sentence for you. He believes the Bible is for you and for me to follow only and not for him and his family to follow.
"Ask and it shall be given" No money just ask God and then must ask big, don't ask small. In fact he said this phrase is a blank cheque for us. He ask us to ask God for big money to lend to ccc but he himself cannot ask God for the money. Every service, he must ask the church goes for money.
Another familiar story which he tells over and over again like a broken record. The woman with the little flour and oil but she gave to feed Elijah first.
Latest superb quote from the Bible by PG - The Good Samaritan ask the inn-keeper to lend the money first. He will go and ask God for the money to pay back later. Again you see, this story is telling us to lend the money but not telling him.
Yes he believes in the Bible alright but he does not believe in living and obeying the Bible principles himself.
PG's DOWNFALL already began..
Say whatever they like, continue to bluff, cheat, and 'chop' Membership, the writing is clearly on the wall:
CCC's WALL!
PG, PG2& BOD & Assoc Pas will be buried with it since their actions showed they will not tell the truth, nothing but the TRUTH.
We can only pray God have mercy on them.
Psalm 127:1-2
"Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who who build it labour in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchman stays awake in vain.
It is in vain that your rise up early and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for He gives to His beloved sleep."
What a wasteful effort for PG and BOD to labour and toil in vain when CCC is not God's plan and purpose but only one man's vision and plan.
No matter whatever jusitfication PG and BOD have for the project and howsoever they try to coerce members and worshippers and the public to contribute to CCC, if it is not God's plan and purpose it will not come to past.
Ichabod - Has the Glory has departed?
The warning of the Word of God is very clear i.e. in these days many will abandon the true faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1.) The QUESTION is who are these "seducing spirits and doctrines of demons" that cause believers to abandon the true faith?
It is clear the pretenders that are dressed in all the form of godliness. Samuel (in 1 Sam chap 4) has paid the ultimate price. Pastors, why don't you all start 'dressing down' otherwise are you prepared to pay that ultimate price...ichabod.
Really sad to read all these.When is all this ever going to end?
August 13, 2010 1:08 PM
What is the current status of CCC?
August 13, 2010 3:52 PM
To anony of August 10,11:36pm;
TTG & CT have did well, but i still cannot say that they done enough. You see, i may tell everyone i know about the corruption by CC leaders, walk out in every fundraising by PG, TOTT, & even confront CG leader about the issue; but that is all that i can do. I am not in the position like TTG & CT. I have no blog to plan & move the crowd like CT to bring greater awareness, but CT & TTG has, yet little has been done. Mordecai did not tell the king himself but that does not mean he cannot urged Esther to do so. We must understand the relation between position & responsibility; & CT has that responsible & position to do greater things. Do you think enough has been done when PG can still use many guest speakers like "Hudson Taylor" as shield to collect faith promise for himself? Do you think enough has been done when PG has no feeling of shame to collect fund in broad daylight? If the wicked proud to continue, we know the truth is still suppressed. If a rapist can continue to rape even minority, do you think enough has been done? Till today, PG still "rape" many believers financial resource and their faith. Don't be complacent of the court case. Some of the suggestions by many commentors here may worth considered. T-shirt with slogan, leaflet, testimony concerning how God use to help TTG be read in New Year service, private explanation to every guest speakers invited to CC, etc are some suggestions. I saw some of you condemn Equilizer, Yoong and Wind of change for not matching. But really they are just Mordecai, without position to move the crowd, but CT & TTG leaders are like Esther with that very position. How can you ask Mordecai to tell the king? You who have the position, influence and tools, must first start something. Like them, I cannot plan a match, or organise leaflet distribution. I have no blog visited by thousands or any influence; but CT have. If you saw the hurt of many who stumbled, you will not be idle in taking action against this wickedness of PG. The longer PG stands, the hurt of many prolong.
Any idea what is happening to the legal suit?
CCC is shrouded in mystery! Boarded up from the perview of members and the public, soaked by rain and waste waters.
PG, Associate pastors and BOD are still spinning wild tales that things are on order and that work is going to resume...However, the question remains how are they going to proceed when the budget is way beyond reach for members and sympathetizers; which contractor is willing to take on the project knowing all the woes CC is facing now? Who is having possession of the site? What is the status of works done and what are the legal rights of parties to the CCC contract? There are a host of complications and problems to a long delayed project.
What is going to happen next is everyone's guess!
Certainly reminds us of the story Jesus told about the builder who went ahead to build but he failed to sit down and count his costs at first and later having to face all the problems he had to abandon the project...and the building remain half done!
Jesus & His disciples never ask, or taught to ask for money for anything. Its not bible teaching, and if CC pastors don't know this, then they don't know scripture at all. Jesus's disciples put their trust on their faith in God & His provision, for God will provide as He saw fit( be it through people, or otherwise) without having to beg for money. Normally cults only ask for money to support
themselves. Those in churches plying money out of people & then also misuse them for their gains are thieves & liars. SP & his pastors had committed this sin against God by falsely using His Name in a vision (CCC) that they simply claimed its from Him, when in actual fact God HAD NOT spoken to them at all. Jesus also called such people false prophets (preachers) who deny Him by their evil works, and must be exposed to warn others so that they may not fall into their trap of deceit and lies.
Dear Anonymous of 10th and 14th August.
I am not sure if you are the same person or two different persons but your comments is typical of an 'accuser' who hides behind the wall of "I have no influence unlike you TTG". Personally I find your comments shallow and typical of cowards. If you care enough volunteer to help TTG with their cause of just SHUT UP!
Disgusted
ano 10th 14t aug is entitled his voice , likewise any members of c c . one way or another we been inflicted by pg and his scumbags pastors and deacons. what matter most is that we unite under t t g as one body .through discussions we formulate the actions.
i think we can do much more
TTG have indeed opened my eyes & ears by highlighting all the negative exploitations of PGs and his blinded supporters! "Calvarytoday.blogspot.com " have provided the best avenue for me and my family to reflect back on how foolish we were to allow ourselves to be conned into giving monies which was diverted to maintain PGs lavish lifestyles!
i am glad I am not in the dark now as I have completely stopped giving to Calvary Church & CCC , calvaryland, etc!
Keep up your good works! A million thanks from my family ! God will continue to Bless your good works!
Further to the comment from Anonymous August 17 2010 928am, do you know that PG has never made any effort to make any meaningful friendship with alot of the old timer such as myself who have been with the CC for more than 35 years? Just because we didn't give our diehard support to him. All the time since the early ears PG made use of us to commit 3 days each week to CC as leaders. We are in the fifties now and we can safely say that PG started to change when he mixed with a certain Tan Sri from the Corporate circle and he later got his Datuk title. Since 1994 all the way till now, this PG has been changed man. Arrogant and short tempered. Unwilling to listen to his members/sheeps and always wanting to go his own way. The downfall is already knocking at his door along while ago.
I have been following your plight over the happenings in Calvary Church, and in the face of ‘apparent’ injustice with all the evidence that is presented on this site, it is hard to dispute the findings. I believe that your motives in seeking justice are justified, but amidst your frustrations, we have to ask ourselves what has happened to our faith in God to bring about justice? I know that you initially did what was stated in Matthew 18: 15-17, and you may have tried that but have not succeeded, but to put your plight on the internet and the newspapers, it goes beyond the confines of the church. Even with the hard evidence that is presented, many of us have failed and have fallen into the trap of “judging” in our hearts through what we see with our own eyes through this site.
Just spare a heart’s thought about these:
a) Have we forgotten about our faith in God to bring about justice?
b) Even if we have, have we, to a certain extent through this site, taken matters into our own hands?
c) Is what is being done here on the internet bringing glory to God or tearing down the church, not just yours, but to others as well?
d) Many others, particularly unbelievers, are observing the happenings within Calvary and there is a generalized sentiment that Christians behave in this manner, could this be a factor to build up a barrier of distrust toward those who are out there working to shine forth God’s light to the unbelievers?
Before continuing, we have to ask ourselves with a heart’s thought: With your plight being aired out here on the internet and the ‘bickering’ (forgive my usage of this term due to the lack of a better word), “How does God feel about this?” our lack of faith in His timing and His purposes? As to the rest of us, let us seek God and ask God how He feels about us being a spectator and potential contributors to add fuel to the flames.
SEE GOD IN EVERYTHING!
I know the pain many are going through because of events at Calvary Church. I have been there and I too had my own share of waiting when there were leadership problems in churches. It is always natural; the first reaction is "TO DO SOMETHING!" As so did I! But the Lord also wanted me to trust Him after having done all that I could! Part of spiritual maturity is knowing when to grow from 'DOING' to 'BEING'!
We will suffer as we wait and the only way out of the suffering is to see GOD ONLY in all things. Spiritual maturity is required to understand this faith principle.
When we arrive at this place of faith, we stop asking questions why Calvary Church and the congregation is suffering through this crisis. We boldly accept by faith that the Lord has WILLED present events at Calvary!
(NOTE I said WILLED - NOT PERMITTED i.e. GOD HAD PURPOSED IT! - now this is a difficult principle to accept and I know there will be some who may not agree with me but it is OK as I am writing this just as the Lord had directed me and leave the consequences in His hands.)
The Bible says:
"Though HE were a Son, yet learned HE obedience by the things which HE suffered" (Hebrews 5:8)
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" (Hebrews 12:6,7).
God "tested" Abraham in the realm of self-love, self-will and trust in self. He wanted to know whether Abraham had total faith in God!
This present trial at Calvary is not really about the misdeeds of the leadership but about HIS FAITHFUL SONS AND DAUGHTERS - WILL YOU TRUST HIM. He will deal with the rogue leaders but before He does that HE wants to know whether HIS CHILDREN WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE FAITH IN HIM. That is what GOD IS AFTER - YOUR FAITH IN HIM!.
It was God who DIRECTED Joseph to prison. His brothers and others were just the Lord's tools to accomplish His purposes – to eventually bring them back to the Promised Land. Paul, Moses, David, etc were all DIRECTED by God into the wilderness – and so will we.
And so today. The faithful ones in Calvary are His remnants and the rogue leaders and people associated with these are just HIS TOOLS. Read you Bible and you will notice after God had used them to accomplish His purposes, He destroyed them!
I believe God had purposed to raise a new band of Christians in Malaysia because those presently in power do not have the leadership quality He needs to raise the spiritual barometer in Malaysia. HE NEEDS FRESH SONS & DAUGHTERS!
(I have been accused of being too hash with the “enemies” of God but friends – I have seen what the Lord has done with MY 'enemies' and believe me – IT IS A TERRIBLE THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. I PITY THEM BECAUSE SOMETIMES HE EVEN CALLS THEM HOME BEFORE THEIR TIME!)
Those who speak of God’s love don’t really understand that God’s LOVE also means HE MUST BE JUST!
Vijay
THE BIBLE TELLS IT ALL.
I sometimes think, we Christians impose more stringent standards than even what God imposes in what we may communicate.
The Bible is still the number one CONTENT presented in multimedia (audio, visual and paper). If God sees fit to tell to the whole world in MULTIMEDIA the SINS of HIS CHILDREN (David a murderer and adulterer, Moses a murder, etc), I find insufficient grounds to stop people in sharing the real happenings in the Christian world!
In fact, I believe the Lord wants the world to know what is really happening so that WHEN HE ACTS - ALL WILL KNOW THE CHRISTIAN GOD IS A JUST AND FAITHFUL GOD. Than they will worship Him.
Just imagine if there was no CT or TTG or no reports in the Newspapers etc. - the world will not hear the TRUTH and they will not know that there is a LIVING GOD who ANSWERS THE PRAYERS OF HIS CHILDREN.
Let us have spiritual discernment and not muzzle the voice of His Children!
Vijay
(Of course - any unkind words or personal attacks should be edited out!)
1)What happened in Calvary Church was part of a Prophecy foretold in 1998!
2)The 1985 CC constitutional amendment was done in bad taste!
3)Hence CCC was negatively high-jacked to boost the ego and lavish lifestyle of a few secular men & women !
4)Christians and non christians were badly shocked by the CC & CCC scandal! Both became wiser !
5)Have we ever ask ourselves if we dare ask our present church if they ever practised or going to " truth, transparency, good governance, stewardship and accountability ".
6)MANY today still dare not ask their pastors and Reverends? WHY ? GOLD needs to be refined by the Lord GOD !
7)Beware of false prophets in our midst ! This is the lesson !
1. There was no check and balance in CC since 1975. The Deacons were mere puppets and yesmen.
2. Every decision was made by PG first and later endorsed by the Deacons.
3. The church leaders believed every word of PG until the day Dr. Lam was sacked and the other 400 members were also later sacked. Suddenly there was this awakening that something is seriously wrong.
4. CC was since 1988 "re-branded" into a "must attend" and "must be with" church for many elites and ordinary people in Kuala Lumpur due to the "brand" psyche created by PG and the other pastors.
5. All the events and happenings in the stadiums were used as a medium to create a "brand" for CC by PG so that the church will be a cult figure and must be with item.
6. Financial contributions came pouring in created a frenzy to jack up the image of CC.
7. Greed came into the life of the senior pastors and the fear of God was kept at the back of the stage. More and more daring acts of financial greeds and under table acts become a normal way of life for the senior pastor.
8. The rest is history and you have a big mess like what you see today in the CCC and CC per se.
9. Now, we have a situation in CC where some or many don't really fear God anymore. How do we expect the world out there fear Him?
10. Please do everything you can to stop this rot now!
Can somebody enlightenend me what was the Prophecy foretold in 1998 for Calvary Church? Who prophesied and/or who is the prophet. I agree with Vijay comments but I remain prayerful and trust in the Sovereignity of God to deal with the ugly episode of PG and CCC.
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